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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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<blockquote data-quote="snavneet" data-source="post: 25595" data-attributes="member: 334"><p>Sat Sri Akaal Ji. <img src="/images/smilies/whatsapp/wah.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wah:" title="Wah :wah:" data-shortname=":wah:" /> </p><p> </p><p>Balbir Ji! How are you today? </p><p>I am sorry for the late reply. </p><p>Couldn't find time to log on to Sikhphilosophy. </p><p> </p><p></p><p>All the 'high places', Ridhees, Sidhees, Nidhees, freedom from the cycle of birth and death, etc. etc. in that 'pad' of the 'Ashtpadee' are a result of Naam coming to rest permanently in the mind of a devotee. Please read that 'pad' properly and completely before extending this debate. </p><p>'Asthaan' is not always used for a place. And the context in which it is used is important. </p><p>See what you said in an earlier post: '(Balbir Ji to snavneet) I pray you come to experience what it all is. I hope you have kept some place free for truth.' </p><p>See, how you have used the word 'place' here? I am sure you are not talking about a physical place. Truth is not a physical commodity that can be kept somewhere. Truth is abstract and the place you are asking me to keep available for it, is also abstract. Don't you agree? Your own line contradicts your arguments about the word place or asthaan. </p><p>My point is that you yourself have used the word 'place' with respect to something that is not physical. </p><p>For example: Consider the word 'sweet'. I can say to someone, 'Your smile is so sweet'. Doesn't mean i am talking about the taste of the smile. It is the quality of sweetness that arises within me when i see the smile of that person. I may also say, 'Sugar is sweet'. Here the word 'sweet' is being used with respect to the physcial taste of a material object. I may say, 'Wow! Sumiran is such a sweet experience'. Here, Sumiran is not an object that has material sweetness, but it is something that can give an experience of sweetness within. This same word can be used for so many other things. Think about it. Please. Don't be in a hurry. Try to look at all this with an open mind. </p><p>Similarly, if you explore Gurbani you will find that the word 'Asthaan' has been used in various contexts. </p><p>Gurbani asks a devotee, </p><p>"Kavan Asthaan Jo Kabhu Na Taray."</p><p>which means, </p><p>"Which is that place that never perishes." </p><p>My point here is that Gurbani talks about a place that never perishes in the above line. It's not the talk of some physical place, nevertheless, the word 'place' is used. The word 'place' is used in Gurbani because the human mind can relate easily with ideas in 'space' and 'time', but not of something beyond them. So, when Guruji has to talk of some state that a true devotee reaches, He sometimes uses the word place or asthaan to denote the same thing. </p><p>Now consider another line from Gurbani, talking about a 'place' in the mind, </p><p>"Agam Roop Ka Mann Mah Thaanaa."</p><p>which means,</p><p>"The Unfathomable Lord has His 'place' in the mind." </p><p>Here again, Guruji is talking of a 'place' in the mind. 'Thaanaa' means place, it is derived from 'Asthaanaa'. So, is Guruji saying that God is in a place, a physical place as you have interpreted the word Asthaan or Thaanaa? No, Guruji is talking about a 'state of mind' over here but he uses the word 'place' instead of 'state'. Again, this is an example of the same word meaning different things in different contexts. </p><p>I hope you come to appreciate the many uses of a word, not only in Gurbani but in general speech as well. I can give you countless examples. But i know why it is so hard for you to accept! </p><p>Moreover, go on and explore Gurbani for the phrase 'Aavan Jaavan' and you will come to know in what context Guruji speaks. In this respect, i feel you are far from the truth. </p><p></p><p>You did not meet any person who is not praising God? Wow! There are countless people who do not praise God. Talk to a buddhist or a jainaa about praising God, see what you get in response! </p><p>I have explained enough. Read my earlier posts once again! </p><p></p><p>For a change, approach the Panj Pyaaraas to whom the Guru gave the 'status' of Guru while taking Amrit from them. Guruji said that in the presence of the Panj Pyaaraas, the Guru will always be present. What's the harm in getting their opinion? Moreover, you don't already know the ONE God, so how can you forget Him? Once you know God directly then you no longer need to approach anyone else, but till then anyone could give you useful inputs. Why else would you keep visiting Sikhphilosophy, if it was not to get other's opinions? </p><p></p><p>Why do you tend to see things that are unimportant? My knowing many words is not important. Your understanding of the message within those words is important. </p><p></p><p>(I have explained enough in my previous posts.)</p><p>In 'Ajapaa Jaap', one continues to live in the true realization of God. One finds eternal love, joy, peace and bliss in the Ajapaa Jaap. </p><p>I didn't say that Jaap stops 'before' Ajapaa Jaap is heard. I said that it stops 'once' Ajapaa Jaap is heard. </p><p>The drop (Jaap) merges with the ocean (Ajapaa Jaap) and when it does, the drop is no more, only the ocean remains. </p><p></p><p>Ok sir! I won't ask personal questions! (I wonder which one was so personal.) </p><p></p><p>Wow! Am i canvassing for votes and shouting slogans?! For what? To become the president of Sikhphilosophy?! Aman ji, beware! </p><p>Balbir ji, some of your replies are just hilarious! Hahahahahaa...! </p><p>I am just calling upon the Sangat to give their views, why is it pinching you so hard?! Is there something wrong in getting views from others? Did i ever say that we will come to know the truth by getting other's opinions? You are so presumptuous! Well, if you don't need other's views, why do you keep asking people to 'Please explain'!? If you can do that then why can't i ask people to get involved? I never asked the Sangat of Sikhphilosophy to come and support my viewpoint, i just said that they should get involved. I don't see any 'canvassing for votes' in that. </p><p></p><p>Are you talking about me? If yes then please tell me one song that i sang in praise of tiny ego! I have been praising genuine efforts (Udam) of a devotee! </p><p>Balbir ji, have you realized the Hukam? </p><p></p><p>Wow, you seem to have felt the truth! Hmm? </p><p>Only man needs to put efforts! Why would God need to put efforts? To realize what? He is everything. There is nothing that He needs to realize! Think about it. </p><p>Simply put, God inspires and gives us strength. Man uses God-given strength to move forwards or backwards. So, using that strength, someone becomes Banda Singh Bahadur, defender of the weak, while someone else becomes Aurangzeb the oppressor. The same strength given by God works in both of them, so from that point of view one may say that 'all is God'. Through the mind, the strength enters into the world of duality where it can be used to become a Gurmukh or a Manmukh. </p><p></p><p>Wow! The extent to which you go to mould Gurbani according to your mind! Amazing! </p><p>"Jiya chants the name of Hari always"! Does your Jiya chant the name of Hari 'Always', Balbir Ji? Please think deeply about this. If yes then why do we need to 'Do' Sumiran or Ustat or Keertan?! Because according to you Jiya is always chanting Hari! </p><p></p><p>I said that 'Bigasiaa' means 'blossoming forth like a flower'. Isn't that a symbol for ultimate growth, for evolution? A seed turning into a flower. Isn't that same as unfolding? Why do you keep creating holes, where there are none!? </p><p>Now, you say that the mind unfolds. A dumb question against this could be, 'Is the mind a piece of folded paper, that it unfolds?' </p><p>If a mind can unfold, why can't it blossom, Balbir Ji!! </p><p>Ever heard the word 'personification'? It is a poetic construct, a 'figure of speech'. And, Gurbani is full of poetry. Many-a-times, a 'metaphor' or a 'personification' is used to easily convey some message! </p><p>For example, Gurbani says, </p><p>'Chandan Kai Niktey Basey Baans Sugandh Na Hoi." </p><p>which means, </p><p>'Near the Sandalwood tree dwells the Bamboo tree, but it (bamboo) does not become fragrant.' </p><p>So, is Guruji trying to teach us Botany over here? No!! Here, the Bamboo tree refers to someone extremely egoistic, such a person, even in the presence of a humble God-realized saint does not absorb even one iota of the saint's bliss. For example, 'Prahlaad' is like a Sandalwood tree while His father 'Harnakash' is like a Bamboo tree!? See, how it works? </p><p>Considering the truth that Gurbani uses figures of speech, one will have to agree that it also considers the evolution of the mind as the blossoming forth of a flower. Just like a flower blossoms and spreads its fragrance, similarly a mind can blossom forth into God-realization and spread the fragrance of God! </p><p>Is this so hard to understand? </p><p>Moreover, Gurbani is not a dictionary. It will not tell you what 'Bigsiaa' means. Gurbani will just use the word 'Bigsiaa'. One is expected to know the meaning of the word. But if someone wants to mistranslate Gurbani, one can substitute any meaning that one wants for any word! </p><p></p><p>Balbir ji, what else have i been trying to explain to you since such a long time!!? </p><p>I have told you earlier that mind in itself is the subtlest form of ego and that in the end even that disappears by the grace of God. Now you talk of mind reaching the evolution of non-existence through Sumiran. I am sure you are talking about the state of no-mind as i have explained earlier. </p><p></p><p>Bhai Gurdaas Ji's baani has been sung in the presence of the Guru with Guruji's acceptance. And due to that reason it is sung to this day in the Gurdwaaras. Does that make sense to you? I really hope it does. </p><p>You asked me for a proof and you got the most logical one. And now because you have no choice but to accept it, you choose the only escape route left to deny it, you start calling "the singing of Bhai Gurdaas Ji's baani at Gurudwaaras" a ritual. Wow, Balbir Ji! Is there much left to wonder as to who is playing the game of ego over here!? </p><p></p><p>For once, you appear closer to the truth. I am happy to see that, sincerely. </p><p>'Namo' comes from the word 'Naman', which means 'Salutation'. And one salutes only to that, which one totally accepts. And one bows for the same reasons. </p><p>Do you remember why i quoted that statement from Guruji? My point was that someone who wants to misinterpret that statement could do it easily and start doubting the Gurus. </p><p>Gurbani is also subject to the mind's interpretations. And the mind is unreliable. So, don't be so sure of your interpretations. Neither am i, unless i realize something through meditation. </p><p></p><p>Balbir ji, this is really sad. </p><p>You are telling me not to collect mistakes? Who was the one who started collecting controversies in this thread? Please think deeply before you say something like this. </p><p>I was always giving my views and answering your questions as per my understanding, until you came in pointing out controversies which never really existed. And once you did that, i had no choice but to justify my points of view, for which many-a-times i had to also justify the shortcomings of your interpretations. And now you are telling me that i am collecting mistakes! Wow! Balbir Ji, if you had said that 'we both should stop finding mistakes', i would have agreed. But, you have made such a one-sided remark on this issue. That's unfair. You are not able to see your own shortcomings. That's sad. </p><p>And i sincerely feel that some of your interpretations of Gurbani are flawed. Even if one did a simple grammatical translation of Guruji's words, your interpretations wouldn't hold up against that simplicity. </p><p>Anyway, i can go on with the discussion because i really have nothing against you or anyone else. I just cannot come to accept some of your interpretations, that's all. Moreover, others from the Sangat seem to be getting their answers. </p><p>Moreover, if you feel that you understand Gurbani in the right light, why are you asking so many questions from other people? Couldn't you find all the answers through Gurbani? </p><p> </p><p>Bhull Chukk Dee Khima Mangdaa Haan. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="snavneet, post: 25595, member: 334"] Sat Sri Akaal Ji. :wah: Balbir Ji! How are you today? I am sorry for the late reply. Couldn't find time to log on to Sikhphilosophy. All the 'high places', Ridhees, Sidhees, Nidhees, freedom from the cycle of birth and death, etc. etc. in that 'pad' of the 'Ashtpadee' are a result of Naam coming to rest permanently in the mind of a devotee. Please read that 'pad' properly and completely before extending this debate. 'Asthaan' is not always used for a place. And the context in which it is used is important. See what you said in an earlier post: '(Balbir Ji to snavneet) I pray you come to experience what it all is. I hope you have kept some place free for truth.' See, how you have used the word 'place' here? I am sure you are not talking about a physical place. Truth is not a physical commodity that can be kept somewhere. Truth is abstract and the place you are asking me to keep available for it, is also abstract. Don't you agree? Your own line contradicts your arguments about the word place or asthaan. My point is that you yourself have used the word 'place' with respect to something that is not physical. For example: Consider the word 'sweet'. I can say to someone, 'Your smile is so sweet'. Doesn't mean i am talking about the taste of the smile. It is the quality of sweetness that arises within me when i see the smile of that person. I may also say, 'Sugar is sweet'. Here the word 'sweet' is being used with respect to the physcial taste of a material object. I may say, 'Wow! Sumiran is such a sweet experience'. Here, Sumiran is not an object that has material sweetness, but it is something that can give an experience of sweetness within. This same word can be used for so many other things. Think about it. Please. Don't be in a hurry. Try to look at all this with an open mind. Similarly, if you explore Gurbani you will find that the word 'Asthaan' has been used in various contexts. Gurbani asks a devotee, "Kavan Asthaan Jo Kabhu Na Taray." which means, "Which is that place that never perishes." My point here is that Gurbani talks about a place that never perishes in the above line. It's not the talk of some physical place, nevertheless, the word 'place' is used. The word 'place' is used in Gurbani because the human mind can relate easily with ideas in 'space' and 'time', but not of something beyond them. So, when Guruji has to talk of some state that a true devotee reaches, He sometimes uses the word place or asthaan to denote the same thing. Now consider another line from Gurbani, talking about a 'place' in the mind, "Agam Roop Ka Mann Mah Thaanaa." which means, "The Unfathomable Lord has His 'place' in the mind." Here again, Guruji is talking of a 'place' in the mind. 'Thaanaa' means place, it is derived from 'Asthaanaa'. So, is Guruji saying that God is in a place, a physical place as you have interpreted the word Asthaan or Thaanaa? No, Guruji is talking about a 'state of mind' over here but he uses the word 'place' instead of 'state'. Again, this is an example of the same word meaning different things in different contexts. I hope you come to appreciate the many uses of a word, not only in Gurbani but in general speech as well. I can give you countless examples. But i know why it is so hard for you to accept! Moreover, go on and explore Gurbani for the phrase 'Aavan Jaavan' and you will come to know in what context Guruji speaks. In this respect, i feel you are far from the truth. You did not meet any person who is not praising God? Wow! There are countless people who do not praise God. Talk to a buddhist or a jainaa about praising God, see what you get in response! I have explained enough. Read my earlier posts once again! For a change, approach the Panj Pyaaraas to whom the Guru gave the 'status' of Guru while taking Amrit from them. Guruji said that in the presence of the Panj Pyaaraas, the Guru will always be present. What's the harm in getting their opinion? Moreover, you don't already know the ONE God, so how can you forget Him? Once you know God directly then you no longer need to approach anyone else, but till then anyone could give you useful inputs. Why else would you keep visiting Sikhphilosophy, if it was not to get other's opinions? Why do you tend to see things that are unimportant? My knowing many words is not important. Your understanding of the message within those words is important. (I have explained enough in my previous posts.) In 'Ajapaa Jaap', one continues to live in the true realization of God. One finds eternal love, joy, peace and bliss in the Ajapaa Jaap. I didn't say that Jaap stops 'before' Ajapaa Jaap is heard. I said that it stops 'once' Ajapaa Jaap is heard. The drop (Jaap) merges with the ocean (Ajapaa Jaap) and when it does, the drop is no more, only the ocean remains. Ok sir! I won't ask personal questions! (I wonder which one was so personal.) Wow! Am i canvassing for votes and shouting slogans?! For what? To become the president of Sikhphilosophy?! Aman ji, beware! Balbir ji, some of your replies are just hilarious! Hahahahahaa...! I am just calling upon the Sangat to give their views, why is it pinching you so hard?! Is there something wrong in getting views from others? Did i ever say that we will come to know the truth by getting other's opinions? You are so presumptuous! Well, if you don't need other's views, why do you keep asking people to 'Please explain'!? If you can do that then why can't i ask people to get involved? I never asked the Sangat of Sikhphilosophy to come and support my viewpoint, i just said that they should get involved. I don't see any 'canvassing for votes' in that. Are you talking about me? If yes then please tell me one song that i sang in praise of tiny ego! I have been praising genuine efforts (Udam) of a devotee! Balbir ji, have you realized the Hukam? Wow, you seem to have felt the truth! Hmm? Only man needs to put efforts! Why would God need to put efforts? To realize what? He is everything. There is nothing that He needs to realize! Think about it. Simply put, God inspires and gives us strength. Man uses God-given strength to move forwards or backwards. So, using that strength, someone becomes Banda Singh Bahadur, defender of the weak, while someone else becomes Aurangzeb the oppressor. The same strength given by God works in both of them, so from that point of view one may say that 'all is God'. Through the mind, the strength enters into the world of duality where it can be used to become a Gurmukh or a Manmukh. Wow! The extent to which you go to mould Gurbani according to your mind! Amazing! "Jiya chants the name of Hari always"! Does your Jiya chant the name of Hari 'Always', Balbir Ji? Please think deeply about this. If yes then why do we need to 'Do' Sumiran or Ustat or Keertan?! Because according to you Jiya is always chanting Hari! I said that 'Bigasiaa' means 'blossoming forth like a flower'. Isn't that a symbol for ultimate growth, for evolution? A seed turning into a flower. Isn't that same as unfolding? Why do you keep creating holes, where there are none!? Now, you say that the mind unfolds. A dumb question against this could be, 'Is the mind a piece of folded paper, that it unfolds?' If a mind can unfold, why can't it blossom, Balbir Ji!! Ever heard the word 'personification'? It is a poetic construct, a 'figure of speech'. And, Gurbani is full of poetry. Many-a-times, a 'metaphor' or a 'personification' is used to easily convey some message! For example, Gurbani says, 'Chandan Kai Niktey Basey Baans Sugandh Na Hoi." which means, 'Near the Sandalwood tree dwells the Bamboo tree, but it (bamboo) does not become fragrant.' So, is Guruji trying to teach us Botany over here? No!! Here, the Bamboo tree refers to someone extremely egoistic, such a person, even in the presence of a humble God-realized saint does not absorb even one iota of the saint's bliss. For example, 'Prahlaad' is like a Sandalwood tree while His father 'Harnakash' is like a Bamboo tree!? See, how it works? Considering the truth that Gurbani uses figures of speech, one will have to agree that it also considers the evolution of the mind as the blossoming forth of a flower. Just like a flower blossoms and spreads its fragrance, similarly a mind can blossom forth into God-realization and spread the fragrance of God! Is this so hard to understand? Moreover, Gurbani is not a dictionary. It will not tell you what 'Bigsiaa' means. Gurbani will just use the word 'Bigsiaa'. One is expected to know the meaning of the word. But if someone wants to mistranslate Gurbani, one can substitute any meaning that one wants for any word! Balbir ji, what else have i been trying to explain to you since such a long time!!? I have told you earlier that mind in itself is the subtlest form of ego and that in the end even that disappears by the grace of God. Now you talk of mind reaching the evolution of non-existence through Sumiran. I am sure you are talking about the state of no-mind as i have explained earlier. Bhai Gurdaas Ji's baani has been sung in the presence of the Guru with Guruji's acceptance. And due to that reason it is sung to this day in the Gurdwaaras. Does that make sense to you? I really hope it does. You asked me for a proof and you got the most logical one. And now because you have no choice but to accept it, you choose the only escape route left to deny it, you start calling "the singing of Bhai Gurdaas Ji's baani at Gurudwaaras" a ritual. Wow, Balbir Ji! Is there much left to wonder as to who is playing the game of ego over here!? For once, you appear closer to the truth. I am happy to see that, sincerely. 'Namo' comes from the word 'Naman', which means 'Salutation'. And one salutes only to that, which one totally accepts. And one bows for the same reasons. Do you remember why i quoted that statement from Guruji? My point was that someone who wants to misinterpret that statement could do it easily and start doubting the Gurus. Gurbani is also subject to the mind's interpretations. And the mind is unreliable. So, don't be so sure of your interpretations. Neither am i, unless i realize something through meditation. Balbir ji, this is really sad. You are telling me not to collect mistakes? Who was the one who started collecting controversies in this thread? Please think deeply before you say something like this. I was always giving my views and answering your questions as per my understanding, until you came in pointing out controversies which never really existed. And once you did that, i had no choice but to justify my points of view, for which many-a-times i had to also justify the shortcomings of your interpretations. And now you are telling me that i am collecting mistakes! Wow! Balbir Ji, if you had said that 'we both should stop finding mistakes', i would have agreed. But, you have made such a one-sided remark on this issue. That's unfair. You are not able to see your own shortcomings. That's sad. And i sincerely feel that some of your interpretations of Gurbani are flawed. Even if one did a simple grammatical translation of Guruji's words, your interpretations wouldn't hold up against that simplicity. Anyway, i can go on with the discussion because i really have nothing against you or anyone else. I just cannot come to accept some of your interpretations, that's all. Moreover, others from the Sangat seem to be getting their answers. Moreover, if you feel that you understand Gurbani in the right light, why are you asking so many questions from other people? Couldn't you find all the answers through Gurbani? Bhull Chukk Dee Khima Mangdaa Haan. :-) [/QUOTE]
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