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Maya - She had them all

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Taranjeet singh, Dec 13, 2009.

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  1. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Yes , she has made fool of lots. As per bani she is stated to be a product of the Creator. There must be some purpose then. Well, It is not known to me. Not at all.

    Yet Guru Sahibaan have stated that it is powerful and has ruined the great Devas as well by her three qualities. If one has to have the Blessings of the darshan of the Lord one must get out of this i.e the lady whose name is Maya and has stated to be three qualities. Her Saree is of Rajo and Blouse is sato and the sandals are Tamo. She is a very powerful lady. But there must be some purpose of this lady in the scheme of things of the creator else it would not have been created at all. My friend, yesterday called on me and asked me if our Bani tells us the specific purpose of the Creation of the Maya and the tri Gunas. He urged me to find out about this. I have looked into the material I had but could not find the reason of the Creation of Maya and told my friend about this. 'Your sikh philosophy Network' should help you out in finding as to what is the purpose of this. I asked him as to why he is interested in this aspect of maya.

    He told me that he knew that sikhs have to overcome this maya and reach the Turia i.e. the Fourth Stage before one can even think of Having the blessed darshan of the Lord. I showed my ignorance. He made a fun that the God has created a barrier and sikhs are trying to Overcome this barrier that is created by the God.

    He again requested me that I should consult my SPN friends to find out more. Thus the questions posed are as:

    1. What is the purpose of Maya if God created this maya?Has sikh philosophy any answer for this?
    2. can Human being capable of Overcoming a natural barrier created by the God Himself.?


    He is pushing me right now with his elbow to post it. and Lo..he clicked and the post is gone.....:happy:



    To be edited.
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: She had them all

    twinkle ji

    These questions have been asked and answered numerous times on SPN. Usually they are put forward by individuals who are trying to knock down members at the knees and make them look foolish.

    My reaction. The questions are the wrong questions. They lead the mind in the wrong direction and give birth to academic dance routines.

    For example, the question, 2. can Human being capable of Overcoming a natural barrier created by the God Himself.?

    Again, only my humble opinion. The point is not to overcome Maya. Please tell your friend, that the point is to allow Oneself to become saturated with the Gur Prasaad that is already there in abundance waiting for us to notice, be open to, and accept. Once filled with Gur Prasaad Maya ceases to be a problem. The Satguru takes care of Maya. This of course can happen instantly for some fortunate beings, and it takes time for the rest of us.

    Once we realize this, then the question above is unimportant.

    The Satguru is the horse, and Maya is the cart. The horse draws the cart. Satguru takes care of Maya. Don't put the cart before the horse.
     
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  4. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    :yes:!! Guru's Grace..Aape nadar Kare. HE ,himself knows HIS play. That is fine... shall tell him so and if he states he wants to ask more shall contact you again.But I am sure my friend would be satisfied.let us see.


    qIny loA ivAwpq hY AiDk rhI lptwie ] (67-2, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    The three worlds are permeated by Maya; they are totally covered by it.
    Thanks once again. The answer is tick to the mark..... But oh! human mind..I am reminded of a line of a song

    'Man rey toon kahay na Dheer dharay...'
     
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  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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  6. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝ ਪਾਇ
    1.The Gurmukhs meditate on the Naam; the self-willed manmukhs do not understand.
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਦਾ ਮੁਖ ਊਜਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ
    2.The faces of the Gurmukhs are always radiant; the Lord has come to dwell within their minds.
    ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਹਜੇ ਰਹੈ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧॥
    3.Through intuitive understanding they are at peace, and through intuitive understanding they remain absorbed in the Lord. ||1||
    ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਦਾਸਨਿ ਦਾਸਾ ਹੋਇ
    4.O Siblings of Destiny, be the slaves of the Lord's slaves.
    ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਹੈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਪਾਏ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    5.Service to the Guru is worship of the Guru. How rare are those who obtain it! ||1||Pause||
    ਸਦਾ ਸੁਹਾਗੁ ਸੁਹਾਗਣੀ ਜੇ ਚਲਹਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਾਇ
    6.The happy soul-bride is always with her Husband Lord, if she walks in harmony with the Will of the True Guru.
    ਸਦਾ ਪਿਰੁ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਾ ਓਹੁ ਮਰੈ ਜਾਇ
    7.She attains her Eternal, Ever-stable Husband, who never dies or goes away.
    ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲੀ ਨਾ ਵੀਛੁੜੈ ਪਿਰ ਕੈ ਅੰਕਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੨॥
    8.United with the Word of the Shabad, she shall not be separated again. She is immersed in the Lap of her Beloved. ||2||
    [ What is the meaning of 'word of sabad' in the line 8. Is it the 'hymn' of Guru Sahib or Naam or something else.A detailed clarification would be very helpful.]



    ਹਰਿ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਅਤਿ ਊਜਲਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ
    9.The Lord is Immaculate and Radiantly Bright; without the Guru, He cannot be found.
    ਪਾਠੁ ਪੜੈ ਨਾ ਬੂਝਈ ਭੇਖੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇ
    10.He cannot be understood by reading scriptures; the deceitful pretenders are deluded by doubt.
    ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਸਦਾ ਪਾਇਆ ਰਸਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੩॥
    11.Through the Guru's Teachings, the Lord is always found, and the tongue is permeated with the Sublime Essence of the Lord. ||3||
    ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਚੁਕਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ
    12.Emotional attachment to Maya is shed with intuitive ease, through the Guru's Teachings.
    ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਜਗੁ ਦੁਖੀਆ ਫਿਰੈ ਮਨਮੁਖਾ ਨੋ ਗਈ ਖਾਇ
    13.Without the Shabad, the world wanders lost in pain. The self-willed manmukh is consumed.
    [What is the meaning of shabad here? Is it again the 'Hymn' of Guru Sahibaan as contained in Guru Granth sahib or this would mean something else as stated above.]

    ਸਬਦੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਸਬਦੇ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥
    14.Through the Shabad, meditate on the Naam; through the Shabad, you shall merge in Truth. ||4||


    [What exactly is the meaning of the line i.e thru 'sabad'. one should meditate on Naam? What would be the intrinsic meaning of this line, 14?]


    ਮਾਇਆ ਭੂਲੇ ਸਿਧ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਲਗੈ ਸੁਭਾਇ
    15.The Siddhas wander around, deluded by Maya; they are not absorbed in the Samaadhi of the Lord's Sublime Love.
    ਤੀਨੇ ਲੋਅ ਵਿਆਪਤ ਹੈ ਅਧਿਕ ਰਹੀ ਲਪਟਾਇ
    16.The three worlds are permeated by Maya; they are totally covered by it.
    ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਾ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ ॥੫॥
    17.Without the Guru, liberation is not attained, and the double-mindedness of Maya does not go away. ||5||
    ਮਾਇਆ ਕਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਖੀਐ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇ
    18.What is called Maya? What does Maya do?
    ਦੁਖਿ ਸੁਖਿ ਏਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਬਧੁ ਹੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇ
    19.These beings are bound by pleasure and pain; they do their deeds in egotism.
    [Line 18 and 19 states that if we are not able to treat pleasure and pain as the same even then we are in Maya. What is egotism here? We all suffer pains and feel it. It is a reality and how is it linked with egotism. Egotism is 'Haume'. What is this haume? Haumein is not an ordinarily used word in Punjabi. I have all the reasons to believe that its origin can be traced back to the scripture itself. Ordinarily, we use terms /words lime Ghamand/guman/ Ahmkaar to state egotism/egoism.]

    ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੂਕਈ ਨਾ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੬॥
    20.Without the Shabad, doubt is not dispelled, and egotism is not eliminated from within. ||6||
    [What is sabad here? Is it again the Hymns of Guru Granth sahib or 'Naam' or something else.?]

    ਬਿਨੁ ਪ੍ਰੀਤੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਹੋਵਈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਥਾਇ ਪਾਇ
    21.Without love, there is no devotional worship. Without the Shabad, no one finds acceptance.
    ਸਬਦੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੀਐ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਜਾਇ
    22.Through the Shabad, egotism is conquered and subdued, and the illusion of Maya is dispelled.
    [What is sabad in line 22 of this hymn[sabad] How do we conquer egotism through shabad and how do we conquer maya thru. sabad [hymn].? Is it that we have to follow all the teachings of Guru Granth sahib and then overcome ego/egotism /Haumein.? But still there would be some element of individuality left in me .Upto what extent this egotism should be allowed to evaporate so that we are without ego.or with out Haumein.?

    ਨਾਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥੭॥
    23.The Gurmukh obtains the Treasure of the Naam with intuitive ease. ||7||
    ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਗੁਣ ਜਾਪਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਣ ਭਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ
    24.Without the Guru, one's virtues do not shine forth; without virtue, there is no devotional worship.
    ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਸਹਜਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਇ
    25.The Lord is the Lover of His devotees; He abides within their minds. They meet that God with intuitive ease.
    ਨਾਨਕ ਸਬਦੇ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਕਰਮਿ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੮॥੪॥੨੧॥
    26.O Nanak, through the Shabad, praise the Lord. By His Grace, He is obtained. ||8||4||21||




    I am sorry that I have to put in the questions just below the lines. The sole intention is to point out at the lines and the terms that are not clear. The word formation may be poor. But that is the limitation. Anyone who has clarity on these points is welcome to advise.


    To be edited.


    Thanks and regards.
     
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    #5 Taranjeet singh, Dec 15, 2009
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  7. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Posted below is the meaning as given by Dr. Sahib Singh ji. However, it does not address the above questions.

    ArQ:- hy BweI! prmwqmw dy syvkW dw syvk bx—iehI hY gurU dI (d`sI) syvw, ieh hY gurU dI (d`sI) BgqI [ (ieh dwiq) iksy ivrly (BwgW vwly) nU μ imldI hY [1[rhwau[

    gurU dI srn ipAW (hI) prmwqmw dw nwm ismirAw jw skdw hY, Awpxy mn dy ip`Cy quirAW (ismrn dI) sUJ nhIN pYNdI [ jyhVy mnu`K gurU dI srn pYNdy hn, auh (lok prlok ivc) sdw sur^rU rihMdy hn, auhnW dy mn ivc prmwqmw Aw v`sdw hY (qy auhnW dy AMdr Awqmk Afolqw bx jWdI hY) [ Awqmk Afolqw dI rwhIN hI Awqmk Awn μ d imldw hY [ (gurU dI
    srn ipAW mnu`K sdw) Awqmk Afolqw ivc lIn rihMdw hY [1[

    jyhVIAW jIv-iesqRIAW gurU dy pRym ivc (itk ky jIvn-rwh qy) qurdIAW hn, auh prmwqmw-pqI dI pRsMnqw dI suBwgqw vwlIAW bx jWdIAW hn, auhnW dI ieh suBwgqw sdw kwiem rihMdI hY [ (gurU dI srn ipAW) auh pqI-pRBU iml pYNdw hY jo sdw At`l hY, jo nwh mrdw hY nwh kdy jMmdw hY [ jyhVI jIv-iesqRI gurU dy Sbd dI rwhIN aus pRBU ivc imldI hY, auh muV aus qoN iv`CuVdI nhIN, auh sdw pRBU-pqI dI god ivc smweI rihMdI hY [2[

    prmwqmw pivqR-srUp hY, bhuq hI pivqR-srUp hY, gurU dI srn qoN ibnw aus nwl imlwp nhIN ho skdw [ (jyhVw mnu`K Dwrimk pusqkW dw) inrw pwT (hI) pVHdw hY, (auh ies Byq nU μ ) nhIN smJdw, (inry) Dwrimk ByKW nwl (sgoN) Btkxw ivc pY ky kurwhy pY jWdw hY [ gurU dI miq qy qur ky hI sdw prmwqmw imldw hY, qy (mnu`K dI) jIB ivc prmwqmw dy nwm dw suAwd itikAw rihMdw hY [3[

    (jyhVw mnu`K) gurU dI miq Anuswr (qurdw hY auh Awpxy AMdroN) mwieAw dw moh mukw lYNdw hY (auh) Awqmk Afolqw ivc (itk jWdw hY, auh pRBU dy) pRym ivc (lIn rihNdw hY) [ gurU dy Sbd qoN ibnw jgq (mwieAw dy moh dy kwrn) duKI iPrdw hY [ Awpxy mn dy ip`Cy qurn vwly bMidAW nU μ mwieAw dI iqRSnw gRsI r`KdI hY [

    (hy BweI!) gurU dy Sbd dI rwhIN hI pRBU dw nwm ismirAw jw skdw hY, gurU dy Sbd dI rwhIN hI sdw-iQr pRBU ivc lIn rih skIdw hY [4[

    (swDwrn bMdy qW ikqy rhy, jog-swDnW ivc) pu`gy hoey jogI BI mwieAw dy pRBwv hyT kurwhy pey Btkdy iPrdy hn, pRBU-pRym ivc auhnW dI suriq nhIN juVdI [ ieh mwieAw iqMnW BvnW ivc hI Zlbw pw rhI hY, (sB jIvW nU μ hI) bhuq cMbVI hoeI hY [ (hy BweI!) gurU dI srn qoN ibnW (mwieAw qoN) KlwsI nhIN iml skdI, mwieAw dy pRBwv dy kwrn pYdw hoieAw ivqkrw BI dUr nhIN huMdw [5[

    (jy pu`Co ik) mwieAw iks cIz dw nwm hY? (mwieAw dw kIh srUp hY? jIvW au~qy pRBwv pw ky auhnW dI rwhIN) mwieAw kyhVy kMm krdI hY? (qW au~qr ieh hY ik mwieAw dy pRBwv hyT) ieh jIv du`K (dI inivrqI) ivc qy suK (dI lwlsw) ivc b`Jw rihMdw hY, qy ‘mYN v`fw hW mYN v`fw bx jwvW’ dI pRyrnw ivc hI swry kMm krdw hY [ gurU dy Sbd qoN ibnw jIv dI ieh Btkxw mu`kdI nhIN, nwh hI ies dy AMdroN mYN-myrI dI pRyrnw dUr huMdI hY [6[

    gurU dy Sbd qoN ibnw (mnu`K dy AMdr pRBU-crnW dI pRIiq pYdw nhIN huMdI, qy) pRIiq qoN ibnw (jIv pwsoN) prmwqmw dI BgqI nhIN ho skdI, (prmwqmw dy dr qy) jIv kbUl nhIN huMdw [

    gurU dy Sbd dI rwhIN hI haumY (mn ivcoN) mwrI jw skdI hY, gurU dy Sbd dI rwhIN hI mwieAw dI pRyrnw qoN pYdw hoeI Btkxw dUr huMdI hY [ gurU dI srn ipAW prmwqmw dw nwm (kImqI pdwrQ) imldw hY, Awqmk Afolqw ivc qy pRBU-pRym ivc smweI huMdI hY [7[

    gurU dI srn qoN ibnw au~cy Awqmk jIvn dy guxW dI kdr nhIN pYNdI, qy, Awqmk jIvn vwly guxW qoN ibnw prmwqmw dI BgqI nhIN ho skdI [ (gurU dy Sbd dI rwhIN hI) BgqI nwl ipAwr krn vwlw prmwqmw (mnu`K dy) mn ivc v`sdw hY (Awqmk Afolqw pRwpq huMdI hY) Awqmk Afolqw ivc itikAW auh pRBU iml pYNdw hY [

    hy nwnk! gurU dy Sbd dI rwhIN hI prmwqmw dI is&iq-swlwh kIqI jw skdI hY [ (pr ieh dwiq) aus dI imhr nwl hI imldI hY [8[4[21[


    Bhul chuk Mauf

    To be edited.
     
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  8. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    soriT mhlw 5 pMcpdw ](616) ibnsY mohu myrw Aru qyrw ibnsY ApnI DwrI]1]sMqhu iehw bqwvhu kwrI]ijqu haumY grbu invwrI]1]rhwau]srb BUq pwrbRhm kir mwinAw hovw sgl rynwrI]2]pyiKa pRB jIau Apuny sMgy cUkY BIiq BRmwrI]3]AauKDu nwmu inrml jlu AMimRq pweIAY gurU duAwrI]4]khu nwnk ijsu msqik iliKAw iqsu guir imil rog ibdwrI]5]

    In this Shabad, Satguru Ji is talking about one of the biggest evils that we have inside of us. That evil is ego. All of us have ego inside of us and Guru Ji says that ego keeps us away from finding the Almighty God.

    ibnsY mohu myrw Aru qyrw ibnsY ApnI DwrI]1]
    Translation:
    Destroy my attachment to ego, which makes me think that this is mine and this is yours and end my love with this world.
    In the first line of this shabad (hymn), Satguru Ji explains that we need to destroy the ego that is inside of us because it is an obstacle between us and God:
    Dn ipr kw iek hI sMig vwsw ivic haumY BIiq krwrI]
    Translation:
    The bride (soul) and the husband (God) are separated by the wall of ego.
    hau hau BIiq BieE hY bIco sunq dyis inktwieE ]
    Translation:
    The wall of egotism and pride separates us, but I can hear Him nearby.
    Satguru Ji has said that this pain of Ego is within all humans:
    haumY rogu mwnuK ko dInw]
    Translation:
    Humans are given the disease of ego.
    There are many more lines in Gurbani which tell us that this ego is a very big disease:
    haumY rogu vfw sMswr]
    haumY rogu kiTn qin pIrw]
    When we get ego inside of us, then we forget God. We think that we are doing everything and forget that Almighty God who is in control of everything:

    hau bMDau hau swDau bYr]hmrI BUim kaux GwlY pYru]hau pMifqu hau cqur isAwxw]krxYhwru nw buJY ibgwnw]
    Translation:
    Filled with ego we say I shall tie up my enemy, and I shall cut him down. Who dares to set foot upon my land?” They say “I am learned, I am clever and wise." The ignorant ones do not recognize their creator.
    So it is very necessary that we break from this wall of ego inside of ourselves.
    Satguru Ji then says:
    sMqhu iehw bqwvhu kwrI ] ijqu haumY grbu invwrI ]1] rhwau ]
    Translation:
    O Saints, show me such a way, by which my egotism and pride might be eliminated. ||1||Pause||
    We must break from this ego because:
    haumY nwvY nwil ivroDu hY duie n vsih iek Twie ]
    Translation:
    Ego is opposed to the Name of the Lord; the two cannot dwell in the same place.
    Satguru Ji explains that Seva and Simran cannot be done if we have ego inside of ourselves. That is not true seva and simran:
    haumY ivic syvw n hoveI qw mnu ibrQw jwie ]1]
    Translation:
    In egotism, selfless service cannot be performed, and so the soul goes unfulfilled.
    If we wish to meet our husband, God, then we must destroy our ego:
    haumY jweI qw kMq smweI ]
    Translation:
    But if she gets rid of her ego, then she merges in her Husband Lord.
    srb BUq pwrbRhmu kir mwinAw hovW sgl rynwrI ]2]
    Translation:
    Show me the method with which I cansee the Supreme Lord God in all beings, and I become the dust of all.

    pyiKE pRB jIau ApunY sMgy cUkY BIiq BRmwrI ]3]
    Translation:
    That method with which I can see God always with me, and the wall of doubt can be shattered.
    AauKDu nwmu inrml jlu AMimRqu pweIAY gurU duAwrI ]4]
    Translation:
    The medicine of the Naam, and the Immaculate Water of Ambrosial Nectar, are obtained through the Guru's Gate.
    Guru Ji explains that the Name of God is the medicine which can break us from ego and which makes us become humble. This Name of God can only be obtained through the true Guru.
    khu nwnk ijsu msqik iliKAw iqsu gur imil rog ibdwrI ]5]17]28]
    Translation:
    Says Nanak, one who has such pre-ordained destiny written upon his forehead, meets with the Guru, and his diseases are cured.
    October 2003


    I have posted the sabad with the meaning so that some useful discussion may be carried out on Maya and haumein.;)

    Another useful link to Ego:
    Id, ego, and super-ego - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     
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    #7 Taranjeet singh, Dec 17, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2009
  9. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Twinkle ji,
    The other useful link to Ego you have posted talks about Freudian ego, which is different than the Ego Guru Nanak is talking about.
    Freudian ego = the organised realistic part of the psyche is the "ego"
    which is a good thing, as it balances the Id and the Superego. I don't think that's a "very big disease".

    Maybe you had a different intention, in that case excuse my post.
     
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