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General Khalsa does not mean pure, It means sovereign

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by GSingh1984, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. GSingh1984

    GSingh1984
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuHnHgC3v2A
    The Sarbloh Granth Sahib is essential to understand the concept of the Khalsa Panth. The word ‘Khalsa’ is Persian in origin meaning: pure, unalloyed, with direct contact and responsibility of the owner. In the Deccan and during the Mughal rule, land or property invested directly for the ruler used to be called ‘Khalsa’. It is said that Bhagat Kabir used this word for those who reject meaningless rituals and are attached in true love with their Creator alone (Kaho Kabīr jan bhae Khālse Prem Bhagati jih jānī) . The spiritual and temporal meaning of this word appealed to the Tenth Guru. He has employed it extensively in the Sarbloh Granth Sahib:
    ‘Ātam ras jo jānahī so hai Khālsā dev. Prabh mai mo mai tās mai raṅchak nāhin bhev.’
    ‘Khalsa is the one who experience the bliss of the Super-Soul. There is no difference between God, me (Guru Gobind Singh) and him.’
    ‘Khālsā mero rūp hai khās. Khālse meṅ hau karo niwās’
    ‘The Khalsa is my special form. I reside in the Khalsa’
    ‘Khālsā Akāl Purakh kī Phauj. Pragaṭio Khālsā Paramātam ki mauj.’
    ‘Khalsa is God’s own legion. The Khalsa is manifest due to the Supreme-Soul’s own wish.’
    Please note that in Akali Hazura Singh’s exegesis, the Khalsa is the liberated form of Nirankar (Prāpati Niraṅkarī sivrūp mahānaṅ.), not Shiv ji, as some misled Snatan revivalists are trying to claim.
    The publication also contains the verses narrating the Gurgaddī passing to the Guru Granth Sahib and Guru Khalsa Panth, the importance of Vāhigurū mantra, and the Das grāhī-Das tiāgī (Ten virtues to hold – Ten vices to renounce) for the Khalsa, orated by Guru Gobind Singh.
    http://kamalroopsingh.blogspot.ca/2012/11/wwwsarblohgranthcom-loh-parkash-in.html

    VJKVJF||

    This explains the actions of our old faujaa better.

    :)

    Let us hope, ;)
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    only if your a Nihang.... I am not a Nihang, so how can this be relevant to me?
     
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I am somewhat confused. Perhaps it is semantics. The thread title states that Khalsa does not mean pure. Next you explain over several sentences that Khalsa means "pure." Then you describe how Khalsa became the special form of Guru Gobind Singh - we know the oration. However, nowhere can I find, in the starter article, where "sovereign" comes in or how it relates to the thread title.

    Maybe you need to be more specific. Or maybe the answer is connected to one of the links that you posted. The sardar who speaks at the YouTube link has a noticeable bias. One could argue that he is not explaining "basics of sikhi" even though his YouTube feed says that he is. Simply stating he is preaching basics of Sikhi does not mean that the his words are true.
     
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    #3 spnadmin, Jun 5, 2013
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  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    GSingh ji

    This couplet of sentences also requires further analysis.

    ‘Khalsa is the one who experience the bliss of the Super-Soul. There is no difference between God, me (Guru Gobind Singh) and him.’


    Sentence 1 does not automatically lead in a logical way to sentence 2. How does the author/how do you come to the conclusion that there is no difference between God, me and him?

    Who by the way is "him?" in the second sentence.

    Since we are not looking at verses from the bhat bani, we don't have to travel in the direction of what their message was. We do however have to figure out who God, me and him are and how they are the same thing.

    This would also be the very first time that I have been made to understand that Nihangs/Akali believe God/me/him are the same. Curious, this very morning I was pondering how various branches of Nihangs have formed in the UK, Canada and the US. Very often they preach information that is an unusual interpretation of Sarbloh Granth... one could even consider them sects within the larger sampardhyan.

    Thanks for any clarifications.
     
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    #4 spnadmin, Jun 5, 2013
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  6. GSingh1984

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    All I meant is that we must be the ones to carry on the torch of Guru Gobind Singh, with guru granth sahib as our torch. Jot and deh are separate the sarbloh and days am granth showing praise of the khalsa, and its traditions.

    Sikhs have become dogmatic expecting miracles from guru granth sahib ji, not knowing dashmesh patsah left the responsibility of those miraculous battlefield victories to us. So far, we've been doing good.

    However, paanji previously you said you do not think the khalsa was created to fight tyranny I ask what are you talking about?

    Harry bhaji, I ask you how that changes guru ji hukam. (nihang or non nihang)
     
  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Where did I say that? Exactly what words did I use? And...can you be certain? I could have been setting forward a possible alternative, just to test the mind set of another member. For example, I might suggest the US adopt an anti-interventionist policy to see what reactions I get. But I don't necessarily agree with that. Or... I could have pointed out in Zafaranama that Guru Gobind Singh was not anxious to go to battle, however, he laid out the reasons why it was necessary. Context is important. I am not a black/white kind of person, all bound up in rigid doctrines. So please show me the specifics.

    It is always a bad idea to draw conclusions about another person, based on what you think they are thinking. Especially on the Internet. When someone does that it shows ignorance through making bald accusations. There are better ways to debate. Thanks.
     
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  8. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    It is sheer arrogance laced with ignorance to play Guru Gobind Singh by claiming that he wrote Sarb Loh or anything else.

    The fact remains that our 10th Guru never showed what he wrote and it is our duty as Sikhs to respect him for that.

    Sikhs' Guru is only SGGS. Nothing else, No one else.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  9. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    It is a shame not having knowledge of Gurmat yet flaunting about it. Sikhi is not about any miracles. This kind of thought process is nothing but Hindutva. It has nothing to do with Sikhi.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  10. GSingh1984

    GSingh1984
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    It is not a miracle, but an expression. Many of our victories are against all odds and seem miraculous I was merely speaking in a manner that people who seem to be outside the panth would understand.

    jot and deh are two separate things I've heard the guru panth thing before from non-'nihang' sources.

    Done Ingar, awaiting ban. :grinningkaur:

    I hope atleast one day, you will rub shoulders with the likes of Shaheed Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Gurjant Singh Bhudsingwala and maybe then the light inside you will awaken.

    To spnadmin, you also showed colors by blocking a thread that would show people how to circumvent a statuory system an example being a man with no 'licnese'.

    I also purposely showed a video of a black man, to break the racial barrier many of our people have (being overwhelmingly of Punjabi descent) that only a white person could 'get away' with such things.

    Anyway, I hope you all go look around at the mandir in Amritsar that's a copy of darbar sahib where there is a memorial to Indira Gandhi, Vaidya etc. going up and that sikhs have '10 days' to remove the bluestar memorial.

    Who knows, when bullets are put into birs of guru ji again, you'll :icecreamkudi: as it is now pad-ched. Same thing right?

    VJKVJF||

    edit - Also I hope you understand the current context, of why no miracles?

    The physical realm we must take care of, in the spirtual the master is guru granth sahib. That is why the gurus did not perform miracles, however I'm sure you're aware of the report of Aurangzeb's spy saying Guru Sahib brought the panj pyare back to life?

    If it is a fake, I'm sure paanji will know( no sarcasm). Other then that, this nihang or AKJ or damdami is stupid. People have their path, but the fundamentals the basics of sikhi :)P) are the same.

    deleted inflammatory language.


    It is a british creation, and the caste system was essentially created to destroy bhuddism and justify the bramin's existence to muslim rulers.

    I suggest you read this history from multiple sources and form your own conclusions. I hope, in the end we are still on the same side, as the Sarbloh Khalsa never loses. :)

    VJKVJF||
     
    #9 GSingh1984, Jun 5, 2013
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  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    GSingh ji

    Let's tell the other side of the story regarding the thread I blocked. This was a thread where a YouTube was posted. A black man was seeking his rights as a citizen -- by driving without auto insurance, and then arguing with a policeman. He used the preposterous argument that commercial law denied sovereign citizens their right to travel without restrictions.

    You are promoting an agenda called the "Sovereign Citizen Movement." Your true intentions won't show on this thread because you are only just now gearing up. But let's take a look at the way in which people of color are being fooled into thinking they are empowered by joining this movement.

    The link is from the Southern Poverty Leadership Council - an advocacy group. From its beginnings in the middle of the 20th Century it fought in courts against hate groups that visit violence on minority groups. Today SPLC has joined in the fight for justice for victims of '84 in partnership with Sikhs for Justice, under the Torture Victim Protection Act (against Kamal Nath and recently Congress (1) of India).

    Here is the SPLC account of the mixed-up philosophy that you espouse.

    http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...logy/sovereign-citizens-movement#.Ua7GnOuYWSd

    Are you trying to re-invent the khalsa as a "sovereign" group like that. Are you trying to turn the khalsa into madmen?
     
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    #10 spnadmin, Jun 5, 2013
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  12. GSingh1984

    GSingh1984
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    No, I don't know what that links says but I think it prudent to reply faster here.

    I've used those 'arguments' in court and won, the case law backs up the 'soverign' view. A lot of their philosophy is crazy, but in a free nation it is allowed to be.

    The khalsa is a free group, and I've no right to change it, nor should I. Guru Ji made it perfect, please check out r v dell 2005 and s.32 of the canadian charter as examples.

    There are the same loopholes in all countries, and the loopholes are especially easy to find in commonwealth countries incl. the USA (those that use 'common law').

    I ask, you this why do both India and Canada have governor generals?

    Also, why is the queen the largest landowner in the world still owning all minerals rights in Canada and AUS for example.

    Finally, as the queen swears an oath to act in public benefit and is only trustee to this land what is the real function of the crown, and therefore why do social credit and accept 4 value work? (I can vouch for this).

    Nothing personal, you've taught me a lot but don't go telling people they're slaves when they're not. This system is made to benefit them, and they must assert their rights, peacefully.

    India, is a prime example where not knowing your rights has turned it into a jungle-like free for all the west is not at the stage and it is very important that people remain in honor, exercise due diligence, and know their rights.

    I already went through what insurance means, you can be bonded, and for example California, Arizona, etc. let you bond a bank account instead of insurance.

    Why?

    If you cannot answer these questions, should you be reading more or by trying to get me to accept a less than honorable ally with the excuse that they are 'against' congress? You know worldly politics mean nothing, congress could have an enemy more evil than itself, does that make them our friend??

    VJKVJF||

    edit - I just used soverign because that's what the guy in the video said, I've dealt with the 'freemen' or soverigns in Canada, they're kind of nutty are doing this for fun, but are right. They want to be heroes for the most part, either way the knowledge they give is right, the philosophy they can keep.

    I don't associate with them, but if winning in court, beating the government, and having liens on police means I'm called a 'sovereign' then I'll walk proud with my dastar and see what people call me!
     
    #11 GSingh1984, Jun 5, 2013
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  13. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    GSingh1984 ji

    You have essentially fallen into a trap of your own creation. I outlined your agenda, and in your last reply you confirmed that I am correct.

    Indeed you are trying to re-invent the khalsa using your own design and theory of what the khalsa could become if you had your way. It seems odd to me that Guru Gobind Singh could have been flawed in his decisions; yet you are suggesting that his design would benefit from your improvements.

    Having said this, the post is inflammatory. I am leaving it up so that members can read the SPLC link and compare it to your comments. Do not continue along these lines veer ji.
     
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  14. GSingh1984

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    Ignore that post, it's information but I'm talking bs.

    The real reason I posted that, I'll get away from it. The freemen seem to use no auto license as their way to show what 'power' we have.

    Let me show you personally why I care about this stuff:

    1. Police are now accountable (if lien is not enforced still destroys credit)
    2. Allodial land title (free of property tax, can't be seized)
    3. Destruction of fake bank debts (your signature is a security, you are never given the loan money)
    4. More rights like the 'kirpan' thing. ;)

    Is that better?

    No more farmer suicides for one thing.

    That's why I put myself at risk for a criminal record, to test this stuff.

    And, the success by the grace of vaheguru is why I post it on here sounding crazy but being right.

    (I butcher english :p).

    I apologize to everyone for being abrasive, I should put things differently the nature of internet forums is that messages take longer to arrive so the inital joinder of thought between people (called a conversation) is lost.

    Admission to proselytizing the sovereign citizen agenda and offer to distribute information deleted.


    If someone else wants to look at it, and cares about this stuff I'll write up all I know and you guys can take over.

    If this is not proselytizing what is?

    I'm not a teacher.. :singhfacepalm:
     
    #13 GSingh1984, Jun 5, 2013
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  15. GSingh1984

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    Huh, I said the khalsa is perfect..

    The khalsa is above what anything any crazy soverign could come up with, however many people who are members of the khalsa are caught up in the webs of goverment schemes and I am trying to free those webs.

    Taking Amrit does not mean you know the little tid-bits in government 'bills' (why are they called bills, and charges :p) that is why Sikh means learner.

    My agenda, is truth I don't know too well how to put out my message that the government can't do anything, and it admits this in its own courts. However, you are helping me bring this message out through discussion. :kaurkhalsaflagblue:

    You cannot harm someone, damage property, or commit fraud. That is the common law, everythign after that requires your contractual consent.

    Not my words, but those of every single supreme court. I can only tell you what I have read, and from my own experiences which verify all of the above. If you choose to 'believe' otherwise that is up to you. My only comment would be, I don't think Sikhi is about beliefs at all.
     
  16. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Personally, I think your motive is Nuts !!:grinningkudi:
     
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  17. spnadmin

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    You are now banned. I am leaving your comments in place so that all members can at least benefit from your willingness to clarify and apologize. That shows some grace. However, there have been too many episodes like we have had to day, going on for more than a few weeks. You promote an agenda and you need to question that.

    The ban is not permanent, and you can take your time thinking through how you will communicate in the future.

    Forum members can also read the SPLC link and decide for themselves whether "common law" is what you believe it to be, or whether the sovereign citizen movement has any relevance at all to the history and purpose of the khalsa.
     
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  18. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    sorry, your asking the wrong person lol
     
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  19. aristotle

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    Please speak with dignity about SPNAdmin Ji.
    Simply because you couldn't get your petty logic proven does not give you a license to talk rude things about dignified and respected forum members.
    Sikhism is religion of reason and logic, a thing which is perhaps beyond your undetstanding.
     
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  20. aristotle

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    Your talking about truth is like Nazi soldiers wearing 'Gott mit uns' (God with us) badges...
     
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  21. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    or no dictionary
     
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