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Keshki or Kesh

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Living Mind, Sep 23, 2004.

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  1. Living Mind

    Living Mind
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    It has just recently come to my attention that some are preaching the Keshki as the first Kakar. I have always had the understanding and have always been told that the first Kakar is Kesh. Could some learned soul who has some knowledge on the matter, please throw some light on the topic?
     
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  3. Arvind

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    Living Mind ji,

    Keshki is not a kakar. Kesh is.

    For the sake of completeness of this post, there are panj (5) kakar:
    1. Kanga
    2. Kachha
    3. Kara
    4 Kirpan
    5. Kesh

    Purpose of 5 kakars:
    1. The Kanga seeks to reflect a Sikh's purity, the Sikh's orderliness.
    2. The Kachha seeks to remind the Sikh of his/her vow of not committing adultery, further to remind the Sikh of their obligations towards one - that being the husband or wife. It also reminds the Sikh of his freedom, that he is not bound by any worldly government.
    3. The Kara seeks to deter the Sikh from committing any type of sin.
    4. The Kirpan seeks to remind the Sikh of his or her constant battle against sin
    5. The Kesh not to interfere in natural process, and to be in God's will always.

    I took above things from sikhnet, and the last sentence about Kachcha intrigued me, so keeping it here for further discussion here on in other thread.

    Thanks.
     
  4. Living Mind

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    I thank you Sevadaar Singh Ji and fully accept what you say and have posted. My concern is what some are preaching which is not in line to what is commonly known and accepted.
    WGJK WGKF
     
  5. Arvind

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    Those preachers Dont know the facts.

    As you rightly understand, they create more confusion than doing actual sewa.

    Regards.
     
  6. Bharat Vir Singh

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    I recently came across somebody who was apparently looking like a Sikh,except that he had come to his 'gurdwara' wearing only a black commando-style rumaal with tails(if you can visualize what I mean)and claimed that he was Amritdhari(he was wearing a big kirpaan).When I asked him why he was not wearing a Dastaar(turban)he replied that Keski is a Kakaar and Dastaar is not.He said Keski was essential,besides strict vegetarianism.He had taken amrit from Akhand Kirtani Jatha,and was following their code.So it is such break-away 'jathas'(groups) which are preaching such wrong views,which the gullible and easily impressionable,and unquestioning people are following.In fact these small jathas have even opened up their own 'gurdwaras' which are drawing away some people from standard,mainstream Sikhi.

    I suggested to that person that Sikh Rehat Maryada as published by SGPC was supposed to be the standard code for a Sikh,but he argued and debated about it,saying that today everybody is following their own interpretation of Sikhi.Perhaps he may have a point there,which is worth considering seriously.

    The Akal Takhat should pass a Gurmata(edict) declaring a universal Sikh Rehat Maryada,and debunking all controversial interpretations by off-shoots of 'babas','jathas',etc.
     
  7. S|kH

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    IF keski is not a kakkar, then how would you all defend the French Sikhs who want to wear turbans to school...obviously it shouldnt matter to them, as it is not a kakkar.

    (I am in NO WAY saying it should be or is a kakkar... I am just asking how you all would defend the issue).
     
  8. Sikh News Reporter

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    Turban is required to properly take care of unshorn hair... Do you think there is any other way hair can be taken care of... ?
     
  9. Living Mind

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    I thank you Bharat Vir Singh Ji and further that our Holy Seat of Authority, the Akal Thakat should clarify matters.
     
  10. Living Mind

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    My understanding of the matter, as Bharat Vir Singh Ji has also clarified, that Kesh is the Kakar and one of the 5 K's as ordained by our Commander-in-Chief Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The Pagri or Pugh is to keep our covered and is both a sign of respect to the one we face as is it a siegn of pride to the wearer. It is just as rude of us to sit in company with our heads uncovered as it is for someone who has his hair cut and sits in company wearing a hat!

    So coming to the issue of the turban in France, as I have mentioned in a posting sometime back, I do not feel that the French Govt had or has anything against the turban. We the sikhs are the unfortunate inclusion because of the muslims who are the the main reason of the ban. Their people, especially their women who wear the burkha are the targets as these women have been used time and again as walking timebombs.

    As such, substituting the Keshki, I see as a willing win-win compromise for both sides without the French govt having to give-in to the Sikh demands and be accused by the muslims of racial discrimination or double standards.

    We need to cover our hair and heads and the Keshki will do the job. After all it is only applicable for primary school children. If I am wrong, I stand to be corrected.
     
  11. Arvind

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    Living Mind ji,

    First of all, this ban by french government should be taken as a restriction on freedom of religion.

    I personally consider this as an interference with not a solid argumental base. Also, somewhere I read that the ban is on govt offices/employees too, and not only for public schools. Readers may bring out clearer picture.

    Thanks.
     
  12. Jugraj Singh

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    From http://www.tapoban.org/keski.htm

    Keski as Kakkar
    Bh. Manmohan Singh Jee LA

    Keski, Kesgi, chhoti dastaar (or mini turban) is the first important striking symbol which makes the members of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha conspicuous - especially the women. And, naturally, it is the first object of criticism. One very distinguished scholar, S. Kapur Singh states: "Bhai Randhir Singh and his admirers claim and assert that five K's obligatory for an Amritdhari Sikh, a Singh, include a Keski, i.e., a short turban for men and women, as a must and one of the other K's, Kangha (comb) is not one of the five Do's."

    According to him "...It is wholly arbitrary and schismatic...and thus an act of sabotage against the solidarity and monolithicism of the Khalsa."20 Another critic asserts the rahit of Keski to be an "absolutely mundane" teaching of the Jatha having "no precedents" and thus being the "teaching of an individual."

    Before taking up the question of whether 'Keski' is a symbol or not, it may be pointed out that in their eagerness to criticize Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, even the well versed Sikh scholars, like S. Kapur Singh, have not cared to verifify the facts before offering their criticism. Keski is not at all considered to replace Kangha as a symbol as asserted by him. It does, however, replace Keshas as a symbol because Keshas is the first fundamental requirement for a Sikh. Shaving or trimming of hair is the first of the four Cardinal Sins -Kurahits (Big Don'ts) - the commitment of any one of which makes one an apostate and results in one's automatic excommunication from the fold of the Khalsa Brotherhood. Moreover Keshas form part of the human body and are not obtained and worn like other Kakaars.

    Sikh history is full of instances where the devout Sikhs were hacked joint by joint, boiled and even sawed alive, had their scalps cut' their limbs broken on the wheel, and faced bravely many other unbearable and severest of tortures, and yet remained firm in their faith to their last hair and breath.

    Right from Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, the Sikhs have been commanded to abstain from shaving or trimming of hair. According to Bhai Sahib Mani Singh's Gyan Ratnavali and other Janam Sakhies, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, while initiating Bhai Mardana into the newly founded Sikh faith, laid down the following three-fold Code of Conduct for him:

    "Firstly, you are not to cut your hair.
    Secondly, you are to get up early in the morning and do practice of the Sat Naam; and,
    Thirdly, you are to serve hospitably the visiting devotees of God."21

    In another instance Sahib Sri Guru Hari Rai Ji, while blessing Bhai Nandlal, grandfather of Bhai Hakikat Rai with the Holy Naam, is reported to have codified as follows:

    "Firstly, you are not to cut your hair;
    Secondly, you are not to consume tobacco; and
    Thirdly, you are not to wear a cap."

    It is thus crystal clear that the injunction regarding abstaining from cutting Keshas was initiated by Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself and continued to be adhered to by all his successor Gurus. Hence the importance of keeping Keshas intact is the basic and fundamental requirement for becoming a Sikh. In fact, the Keshas are considered so sacred that for their cleanliness, care, and protection, two additional Kakaars, i.e. Kangha and Keski, have been prescribed in the Sikh Code of Conduct.

    It is well known that the outward appearance of the Sikhs is absolutely unique and different from those of other faiths. This applies to all Sikhs irrespective of sex. The wearing of the Sikh symbols has been obligatory for both the sexes. In addition, Sikh women are also conspicuous because of the absence of any piercing ornaments for nose and ears, such as those customarily worn by women of other religions. After their initiation into the Khalsa fold by partaking Khande-ki-Pahul (Amrit), the Sikh women have always tied their Keshas in the form of topknot and covered the same with Dastaar (i.e. Keski) just as men do; the only difference being that they wear chunnies or dupattas over their small turbans.

    Right up to the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Sikh women had been steadfast in following the edicts of the Satguru in respect to their spiritual inner life as well as dress, including Keski. That is what J. D. Cunningham himself saw and wrote in the middle of the Nineteenth Century when he wrote his book, History of the Slkhs.

    Even after the Punjab came under the British rule, this symbol of Keski was conspicuously seen in case of Sikh women as well as men right up to the Gurdwara movement and the establishment of the Shromani Gurudwara Parbandhak Committee in 1926. Until then, no one - man as well as woman was allowed to be baptized (by taking Amrit) at Sri Akal Takht Sahib without Keski. It was only afterwards that laxity was introduced in this respect and the wearing of Keski was made optional. With the introduction of this laxity, the other anti-Sikh practice of wearing piercing ornaments in the nose and ears also became prevalent in Sikh women.

    This is a brief summarized account of the historical background in this regard. In the following pages, an effort has been made to elaborate a bit on the above points by presenting certain facts:

    i. Rahit Naama of Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji contains the following couplet regarding 'rahits':

    Kachh, Kada, Kirpan, Kangha, Keski.
    Eh Panj Kakaari Rahit Dhaarey Sikh Soyee.

    To be a Sikh, one must observe five rahits of wearing five Sikh symbols beginning with 'K': Kachh, Kada, Kirpan, Kangha, and Keski. (Those Sikhs not believing in keski have wrongfully broken the word Keski in this couplet into two words, Kes and Ki, indicating it to mean "the rahit of keshas.")

    ii. The renowned scholar of the Panth, Bhai Sahib Kahan Singh Ji of Nabha, compiled the Encyclopedia of Sikh Literature and Terminology (Gur Shabad Ratnagar MAHAN KOSH) in 1926. The term 'Keski' has been explained therein on page 254,
    Col. 3 of its Second Edition published by the Punjab Government in 1960, as:

    Keski: Noun - small turban worn to protect hair.

    iii. Well known 19th Century English Historian, J. D. Cunningham (1812-1851) who was an eye witness to the First Anglo-Sikh War, in his History of the Sikhs - 1848
    refers to Sikh women of that time as follows:

    "The Sikh women are distinguished from Hindus of their sex by some variety of dress, chiefly by a higher topknot of hair."22
    Higher topknot of hair on Sikh women's heads automatically implies their coverage by some sort of turban, as Cunningham has connected it with "some variety of dress."

    iv. According to the Sikh history, Sahib Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji, impressed and pleased by the untiring and devoted labor of love and selfless service of Baba (later Guru)
    Amardas Ji' bestowed upon him Siropas in the form of Dastaars a number of times.
    Even now this tradition of bestowing Dastaar as a Siropa continues at Sri Akal Takht
    Sahib and other Takhts and Gurdwaras.

    v. Sahib Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji's hymn on page 1084 clearly states:

    Naapaak Paak Kar Hadoor Hadeesa
    Sabat Surat Dastaar Sira.
    Make unpure (mind) pure. It is the true adherence to the Muslim Law (Hadees).
    (One can obtain this objective) by keeping one's body unviolated and by always
    wearing a turban on head.
    The above instruction to keep the body in its original complete form and to wear turban
    is meant for all, irrespective of sex.

    vi. The tradition of "double dastaar" prevalent amongst Khalsa men was also the result
    of the practice of keeping Keski under the big turban so that they may never remain
    bareheaded. Keeping this very tradition in view, the British rulers of India prescribed
    wearing of double dastaar, i.e., one small (also referred to as an under turban) and the
    other outer big one, as part of the official uniform for Sikh members of the armed
    forces. They were, and perhaps are even now, officially provided with two turbans,
    one big and one small, as part of their uniforms.

    vii. At the end of the nineteenth century and the beginning of the present one, as a result
    of the Sikh renaissance movement, a number of Khalsa schools for girls were
    established in Punjab. Small dastaar (Keski) was prescribed as an obligatory head
    dress for students as well as teachers in such schools at Jaspalon, Ferozepur and
    Sidhwan in Punjab.

    viii. . In a number of Rahitnaamas, the importance of keeping hair always covered with
    Dastaar has been emphasized very clearly. A few quotations are given below:

    "Each candidate for Baptism be made to wear kachhehra, tie hair in a topknot and cover the same with dastaar; wear Sri Sahib (i.e. Kirpan) in Gaatra (shoulder belt). Then he/she should stand with folded hands." (Rahitnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji)
    "...Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa should keep his hair unshorn, have flowing beard and have simple dastaar which saves him from impiety. Then the Sikhs asked what would happen to those Amrltdharis who start cutting their hair or do not keep their hair covered. The Guru replied that they would be stupid and will lose their sensibility It is a blemish to remain bareheaded...Always keep two turbans. When the bigger turban is removed, the smaller be kept. The smaller turban should not be removed."

    (Bijai Mukat Dharam Shastra - Sakhi-8)
    "(A Sikh) who eats food with turban removed from the head (i.e., bareheaded) is destined for 'Kumbhi' hell."
    (Rahit Rama Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji)

    "One who combs hair twice a day, ties turban fold by fold and cleans teeth everyday will not come to grief."
    (Tankhah Naama Bhai Nandlal Ji)

    "Whosoever roams about bareheaded, takes food bareheaded and distributes the 'prasad' bareheaded is considered punishable."
    (Uttar-prashan Bhai Nandlal Ji)

    "Women should tie their hair in topknot and should not keep them loose."
    (Rahitnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji)

    "Keshas be washed. Turban or dastaar should not be placed on floor but should always be kept with due respect. Food should not be eaten bareheaded."
    (Bijai Mukt Dharam Shastra, Sakhi 70)

    It is thus, absolutely clear from the above quotations that remaining bareheaded at any time (except when washing, drying, and combing) and keeping hair loose and unknotted are basically against the Sikh Code of Conduct, which is applicable to all, men and women alike. For obvious reasons, therefore, the use of small dastaar or keski is indispensable. There is no other way to keep the head covered all the time. Sikhs - men as well as women - who wear only big turbans and dupattas, mostly remain bareheaded, at least in the privacy of their own homes, while taking food, etc., and thus are, perhaps unconsciously, infringing the Sikh Code of Conduct in this respect.



    A FEW HISTORICAL AND OTHER FACTS IN THIS RESPECT:

    1.Well-known Sikh historian Bhai Sahib Bhai Santokh Singh has given a somewhat detailed description concerning Mai Bhag Kaur (commonly known as Mai Bhago) of Forty Muktas fame in his well known historical work GUR PARTAP SURYA. He mentions that Mai Bhag Kaur had reached the highest stage of enlightenment and had almost lost her body consciousness...so much so that when her clothes became worn to shreds, she did not care to replace them. Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji called her in His Holy presence and instructed her to always stick to the Gursikh dress as prescribed in the Code of Conduct. In particular, she was ordered to wear Kachhehra and chhoti dastaar. In fact, according to some chroniclers, the dastaar was tied on her head by the Satguru himself. If this dastaar was not a Rahit, where was the need to include this item in the instructions given to a lady who had reached almost the Brahmgyan stage? It apparently shows that the Satguru gave as much importance to Dastaar as to other Rahits like Kachhehra.

    2. In the Museum of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's fort at Lahore and Victoria Museum at Calcutta, the pictures of Sikh women of old time can be seen even now, depicting them with small dastaars or keskis.

    3. Bhai Sahib Vir Singh, in his well known poetical work, RANA SURAT SINGH, depicts Rani Raj Kaur as a Saint Soldier or Rajyogi of the highest order. Her very impressive picture given in the book depicts her with a well-tied Keski, on which is also affixed a khanda-chakkar, the emblem of Sikhism.

    4. The Sikh women belonging to the Jatha of Bhai Sahib (Sant) Teja Singh Ji of Mastuana, have been seen doing Kirtan in congregations wearing dastaars. He was instrumental in establishing Akal Academy - a Higher Secondary School at Baru in Himachal Pradesh wherin all students - boys as well as girls - are required to wear turbans as a prescribed school uniform.

    5. The Central Majha Diwan and Panch Khalsa Diwan, Bhasaur - the two organizations which played a remarkable role in the Sikh renaissance movement in the first decade of the twentieth century laid special stress on the wearing of Keski by women.

    6. The author had the privilege of meeting the late Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa of the Bhindranwala Jatha along with his whole family, including his wife, two sons and their wives. They were all wearing Keskis just as the members of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha do.

    7. It is a historical fact that there was a time when a price was put on the head of a male Sikh. Greedy and unprincipled people, both Hindus and Muslims, availed of this opportunity to make money. When they could no longer find male Sikhs in the villages and towns, they started beheading Khalsa women and presenting their heads as the heads of young unbearded teenager Sikh lads. As such, many Sikh women, out of fear of persecution, stopped wearing Keski and converted topknot of hair into fashionable styles like women of other faiths. This practice, which originated in a helpless state of affairs, became a fashion in due course of time. By the way, it was perhaps under these very abnormal circumstances that Sikh women also started wearing ear and nose ornaments to avoid the disclosure of their Sikh identity.

    8. S. Shamsher Singh Ashok who has been an active member of the Singh Sabha movement and an erstwhile Research Scholar of the S.G.P.C., while discussing the prevalence of the use of 'keski', states:
    "...and, consequently in the Amrit-Parchaar at the Akal Takht Sahib, this was a precondition even for ladies before they could be baptized there. Any woman who was not prepared to wear Keski was not baptized. This practice continued even after the end of the Gurdwara movement. Relaxation was made only when Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafir became the Jathedar of the Akal Takht."23

    9. A recent discovery from old literature puts a final seal on the Keski having been prescribed as a Rahit by the Tenth Guru himself. While going through the old Vahis of the Bhatts, lying with their successors in Karnal District in Haryana State, Prof. Piara Singh Padam of Punjabi University Patiala came across a paragraph explaining the first baptism of the double-edged sword bestowed by Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji on the First Five Beloved Ones on the Baisakhi of 1699 A.D. and the Code of Conduct imparted to them on that auspicious occasion. Based upon the language and style, this manuscript has been assessed to have been written in about the end of the eighteenth century. As this finding is of special significance in this respect, the English translation of the whole paragraph is reproduced below:

    "Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Tenth Guru, son of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji, in the year Seventeen Hundred Fifty Two, on Tuesday - the Vaisakhi day - gave Khande-Ki-Pahul to Five Sikhs and surnamed them as Singhs. First Daya Ram Sopti, Khatri resident of Lahore stood up. Then Mohkam Chand Calico Printer of Dawarka; Sahib Chand Barber of Zafrabad city; Dharam Chand Jawanda Jat of Hastnapur; Himmat Chand Water Carrier of Jagannath stood up one after the other. All were dressed in blue and he himself also dressed the same way. Huqqah, Halaal, Hajaamat, Haraam, Tikka, Janeyu, Dhoti, were prohibited. Socialization with the descendants of Prithi chand (Meenay), followers of Dhirmal and Ram Rai, clean shaven people and Masands was prohibited. All were given Kangha, Karad, KESGI, Kada and Kachhehra. All were made Keshadhari. Everyone's place of birth was told to be Patna, of residence as Anandpur. Rest, Guru's deeds are known only to the Satguru. Say Guru! Guru! Guru! Guru will help everywhere."24

    This discovery is a landmark in this respect: Kesgi or Keski has not only been clearly mentioned as one of the five K's, but also the specific and seperate mention of making all Sikhs Keshadharies, makes it clear beyond any shadow of a doubt that Keshas are not included in the Five Symbols (i.e., Five K's): in other words, keeping them intact is a separate and specific injunction for all Sikhs. (By the way, regarding eating meat, both Halaal and Haraam- the Muslim description of any meat other than Halaal - were also forbidden. It means that eating meat was totally prohibited.)

    It is thus abundantly dear that Keski has been in vogue right from the birth of the Khalsa Nation and is not the innovation of Bhal Sahib Randhir Singh or anybody else.


    A FEW POINTS OF RATIONALE WHY KESKI AND NOT KESHAS IS ONE OF THE FIVE SIKH SYMBOLS.

    Now let us consider why Keski and not Keshas is one of the Sikh symbols. By considering Keski as a symbol, the importance of Keshas IS NOT UNDERMINED IN ANY WAY. In fact, the Keshas are the basic and fundamental edifice of Sikhism without which no one can become a Sikh. The following points are put forth for a rational and unbiased consideration in this respect:

    1.Keshas are the natural blessing of the Creator. They grow from within the body and develop gradually with age as other parts of the body. As against it, all other symbols or kakaars are external and are put on the body from outside. Even a very devout Sikh may, at times, be forced to remain without any one of the four symbols under circumstances beyond his control. This cannot happen with Keshas, which do not fall in line with the other four symbols and are in a class by themselves.

    2. Kangha, which is one of the symbols, is kept for the upkeep of the Keshas (which is also generally considered a symbol). No other symbol is meant for the protection of any other symbol, these being for the protection of the body or some part of it. Evidently, therefore, Keshas cannot be considered as an outer symbol but a part of the body for the protection of which Kangha and Keski are required to be kept as symbols.

    The RAHITS, including the wearing of the external Five Symbols (Keski, Kachhehra, Kangha, Kada and Kirpan) fall in the category of DO's, while Kurahits (Cardinal Sins or Taboos), including cutting of the hair, are placed in the category of DON'TS. The vested interests try to intermingle them. In this way, they unconsciously belittle the value of Keshas. They should realize that the value of all outer symbols is alike.

    4. Then there is an evident anomaly in the commonly accepted Code of Conduct with regard to Keshas. These are included in the category of four cardinal sins which are so basically important that commitment of any one of these by a Sikh makes him an apostate. These are, then, also included in the category of Rahits, the infringement of which makes a Sikh merely a Tankhaeeya or punishable. Evidently there is definite incongruity in it which defies logical or rational explanation. The only logical explanation, therefore, is that the Keshas are not included in Rahits but are one of the four major Kurahits (Taboos or Cardinal Sins): A Sikh must not cut hair.

    5. The wearing of Keski enables Sikh women to show their distinctiveness of
    being Sikh or Khalsa like men. The importance of this Khalsa distinctiveness has
    been clearly emphasized by the Tenth Guru for the Khalsa as a community, both
    men and women, and not for men only.

    6. At the time of the baptismal ceremony, the same Amrit (Khande-Ki-Pahul) is administered to all without any distinction, including that of sex. The title of Khalsa is bestowed on all of them. The same way of life and Code of Conduct is enjoined upon all of them. All of them are forbidden to roam about, take food, etc. bareheaded. How, then, have women become exempt from any of these injunctions? Keski is the only answer to this contradiction.

    In view of all the aforesaid, it is clear that Keski or small turban has been traditionally worn by Sikhs, or Khalsa men and women, right from the birth of the Khalsa Nation. This Rahit has been enunciated and strongly emphasized by the Satguru himself. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, the Akhand Kirtani Jatha, and a few other individuals and organizations are preserving this dignified Khalsa Rahit with Guru's grace. Having become aware of these facts, the Sikh intellegentia has also started showing a remarkable response in this regard. If the Khalsa is to live in accordance with the Rules of true Gurmat , both Khalsa men and women have to accept it. Keski is the crown bestowed by the Satguru for the head of the Khalsa, whether man or woman, who stands bestowed with the special form of the Satguru himself. By refraining from the use of Keski, a Sikh becomes a follower of his own ego instead of the Will of the Satguru. Wearing of Keski by Sikh women is decried mainly because modern day Sikhs want their women to fall in line with other women with respect to the so called modern way of life, including the modern fashions of dress. Sikhs - both men and women - will continue to be guilty of showing disrespect to the sacred hair by keeping them uncovered. In fact, it is the Keski's nonacceptance (and not its acceptance) that is very unconsciously eviscerating the Rahit Namas of their "tremendous and literally unlimited potency that operates on the collective subconscious level" of the Sikhs in general. One fails to understand how the use of Keski "...destroys the purity of the Khalsa Rahit and sabotages the unity of the Khalsa", as alleged by some. In fact, the shoe is on the other foot. If Keski is accepted by all Khalsa men and women, it will help in maintaining the purity and ensuring the unity of the Khalsa, as even women of the Khalsa faith, like the Khalsa men, will be distinguishable.
     
  13. Arvind

    Arvind
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    Welcome jugraj ji, Thanks for your post.

    Well, I must say this is something new to me, where someone mentions 'Kesh' as not a kakaar.

    Thanks.
     
  14. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Jugraj Singh ji,

    Welcome to the forum.

    Are you sure the above article is written by Bhai Manmohan Singh ji? The contents do echo Bhai Sahib's sentiments as he belongs to AKJ.

    I know him personally and I had no idea he wrote anything in english. Could you please clarify my query?

    Off subject. The only person that seem authentic towards GURMAT in AKJ is Bhai Jeevan Singh ji. Well thats my opinion. Unfortunately he has been under the weather since the stroke.

    Thanx

    Tejwant.
     
  15. Neutral Singh

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    Tejwant Ji,

    Why there are doubts and non-clearity in the matter of whether Kesh or Keshki ? Is there something contradictory written in history books ? Any reference would be helpful.

    Thanks
     
  16. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Neutral Singh ji,

    I thank you for inflating my ego by asking a question of such an importance to a layman like myself.

    As mentioned before, I am neither a scholar, nor a historian or possess any intellectual traits. I am a seeker and pray to remain as such.

    Now back to your question, I invite you to think aloud with me.

    When Guru Gobind Singh ji founded the Khalsa Panth, he asked us to keep 5K's.
    Kesh
    Kungah
    Kecherah
    Karaah
    Kripaan

    If Keshki were to be one of our 5K's rather than Kesh, then It would indicate that covering our heads is more important than our kesh. In other words SARDAARI ( only nobles wore turbans) came before spirituality, Or shall we put it in this way that MIRI had more importance than PIRI.

    Now the question arises, Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji who established Khalsa Panth want us to stand out without being outstanding?

    I do not think so as the amber of seeking ONE GOD does not lie in the type of Keshki we wear but in the heart and soul of each being - within- and can only be ignited by GURMAT.

    If Keshki were more important than the Kesh then why would men be required to keep their facial hair?

    Small groups like AKJ have created their own rules and regulations in order to add a twist in their Gurmat path. Unfortunately they feel themselves the chosen ones with all these rituals which do not add any more octane in the CREATIVE ENERGY that we all seek. A sikh should never forget that SABH GOBIND HEIN- every being is The Chosen one-.

    As Sardaari is a destination whereas Sikhi is a journey. It is sad to see that Sardaari has been encouraged to overtake Sikhi.

    How can one reach the destination one seeks without stepping on the SIKHI PATH?

    Tejwant
     
  17. Arvind

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    Emphasizing Tejwant ji's post about Miri-Piri, I would like to bring out - In another thread, Amarpal ji mentioned about Nishan Sahib of Gurudwara Harmandar Sahib standing taller than that of Akaal Takhat.

    I dont have any reference or knowledge to prove anything, but somehow feel these kind of events as distortion only, where Kesh are not taken as a Kakaar! So Leaving feelings aside, me too joining you looking forward to factful information.

    Regards.
     
  18. Jugraj Singh

    Jugraj Singh
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    Veer Vaheguruseeker ji,

    you said

    >>>If Keshki were to be one of our 5K's rather than Kesh, then It would indicate that covering our heads is more important than our kesh.
    >>>

    Well no. This is illogical. You can not be a Sikh without your kesh. Cutting your kesh is a bujjar kurehit. If you cut your hair you are no longer an amritdhari. However if you take off a kakkar then you simply go to the panj and get forgiven you by no means have broken your amrit if you take off a kakkar.

    It seems to me that calling kesh a kakkar is giving kesh less importance then it's meant to have.

    >>>
    In other words SARDAARI ( only nobles wore turbans) came before spirituality, Or shall we put it in this way that MIRI had more importance than PIRI.
    >>>

    How did you come to associate a keski with sardari? Please explain your logic. how do you know what guru sahib was thinking when he gave us the gift of keski? The truth is you don't know. ONly guru sahib knows his reasons for doing things. We can only make guesses.

    >>>>
    Now the question arises, Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji who established Khalsa Panth want us to stand out without being outstanding?
    >>>

    What are you on about? Singhs have always been niralay and will be niralay for all time. WE have a unique appearance a unique lifestyle and definitelya unique goal in life. Your points seem clever but they lack substance. Please give examples of what you are talking about.

    >>>
    I do not think so as the amber of seeking ONE GOD does not lie in the type of Keshki we wear but in the heart and soul of each being - within- and can only be ignited by GURMAT.
    >>>

    when i first read the above statement ... i scratched my head a bit trying to understand your logic.The fact of the matter is that we can only reach the ONE GOD by following the one true Guru. Guru Nanak. Meaning that we follow his hukams to the best of our abilities. Guru's hukam is to follow rehit. Without rehit we are nothing. Without rehit we live in our own cleverness. Without rehit we are like the honey bees... we have access to so much ras but never develop an appreciation for it.

    The sharda that we have in our hearts will manifiest itself in devotion to the guru... a longing and drive to follow his every hukam to the best of our ability and to beg for a chance to serve mindy body and soul.

    A lot of people can talk about pyar ... but those who walk the path don't talk abou it... they are too busy living it.


    >>>>
    If Keshki were more important than the Kesh then why would men be required to keep their facial hair?
    >>>>

    Not only men but all sikhs are required to keep ALL kesh on their body.

    I don't think you are familiar with concept of bujjar kurehit.

    1) cutting hair
    2) eating meat
    3) intoxicants
    4) pre marital sex/ adultery

    if you do any of these you are not a sikh anymore.

    You also said in one of your posts that, in your opinion, their is only one authetic AKJ person.

    Well all I have to say is this. We do ardass everyday and say, "... dekh kay andith kitay.." as in we are showing appreciation for those who looked away from others faults.

    Your posts seem to contradict themselves.

    1st you say that it's what inside the person that matters... then you go onto say that you only know of 1 person in all of AKJ who is authentic. WEll how do you know what's inside of peoples hearts. According to your own logic you shouldn't be so quick to judge.

    It's easy to write off Singhs who are trying to keep rehit when you don't even know them... it's easier still to life your life in ignorance of Sikhi ... and easier still to not have any sikhi at all.

    No one ever said that the path was easy. Noone ever said you won't have to rethink your understanding of the world of and of yourself.

    We have to kill our haumai every step of the way. Putting guru's will above our own and asking for the strength to live in bhana.

    I know Singhs who keep a lot of rehit and I've known them for a while now. I have noticed a pattern as well. The more rehit you keep the more pyar you have for guru sahib.

    If it's all inside of us then why even bother doing paath. If we already have the thirst to meet God and are such pure souls then why did guru sahib say, "...antar gath teerath mal nao".

    The fact is that we are all here because we are not pure souls. Our hearts and minds have lifetimes of bad karmas deposited on them. We think of nothing but ourselves and are engrossed in maya. That's why we are here and not in Sach Khand. That's why we need to follow guru's hukam.

    Lastly,

    Please reread the article by Bh. manmohan Singh Jee on Keski. I don't think you did otherwise you wouldn't have posted the questiosn you did because he answers them.

    i apologize if this seems harsh but your words about AKJ lacking authentic people really hurt...even it is your opinion next time keep it to urself.

    I feel the Akhand Keertani Jatha is the back bone of the panth. Singhs are keeping puratan rehits alive. that's what makes a sikh... rehit. and b4 anyone says ... yes amrit is rehit...amritvela is rehit... nitnem paath...not swearing ... all minor and major things are rehit.
     
  19. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Jugraj Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for expressing your viewpoint. Before I respond to your interesting dissection of the post, can you please clarify that if Keski is Kakaar for you or not. If it is, then why and if it is not then why not? And also do you disagree about what I wrote about Bhai Jeevan Singh ji?

    Thanks

    Tejwant
     
  20. Jugraj Singh

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    I belive keski is a kakkar. Why? I belive that Bhai Manmohan Singhs lekh outlines that clearly enough. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't agree with it.


    As for Bhai Jeeven Singh jee... I don't know him personally and have only had the chance to say fateh to him once. I know he does amazing keertan with a lot of pyar and he is an amazing and inspiring person. The rest guru sahib knows.

    What are your views on Bhai Jeeven Singh?

    guru fateh
     
  21. Tejwant Singh

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    Jugraj ji,

    I am still waiting for your response regarding the author of the article you posted. If you know Bhai Manmohan Singh, you may also be aware that he does not write in english. If he wrote this article in Punjabi, I would appreciate if you could post the original article and also the name of the person who translated it?

    Thanks

    Tejwant

    PS:- I am not trying to avoid to respond to your posts but wanted to keep the record straight so we can fruitfully discuss about the article and the confusion of Keshki as Kakaar to be or not to be.
     

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