Kala Afghana: Discussion Redux

[Inder singh]

M

aad0002



Enrolled: Dec 2006
Location: Chester PA
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The following is an old link. So kala afghhana's problem is not only Dasam granth. He also attacks all sikh traditions as well.

www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/8487-gurbax-singh-ji-kala-afghana-debate-5.html


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Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji. >>

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Jios,

This is complicated stuff!!! Kala Afghana appears to be neither asking questions nor preaching. He is not asking questions as in posing statements ending with a question mark ???? in hopes of getting answers. Does he really want answers? Nor does he appear to be preaching. He does appear to be testomg deeply held beliefs, which may or may not be supportable in Bani. In other words, he may be looking for a debate (or maybe looking for a fight?). Since the list is longer than 5 questions, Mr. Afghana has been hard at work for a long time. And the information out there is so deeply vested in one side of the argument or the other, that objective analysis -- what's that?

The only "list" I could find was in Wikipedia (believe it or not). Everything else was opinion. Here is the list.

Kala Afghana's (KA) views on different issues (taken from 'Bipran ki Reet to Sach da Marg')

• Bhog & Guru Granth Sahib: Doing bhog of Deg in presence of Guru Granth Sahib is manmat according to KA.
• Sri Amritsar Ishnan: KA states that the holy water of the sarovar should NOT be referred to as Amrit.
• Washing our Feet: KA criticizes the practice of washing our feet before entering Darbar Sahib or our Gurduara Sahibs.
• Amrit Vela: KA states how can you call a particular time of the day Amrit-Vela when so many evil things happen around the world at that time.
• Bhai Veer Singh Ji: KA criticizes Bhai Veer Singh Ji for making anti-Gurmat statements expresses disappointment about his works.
• Bhai Veer Singh Ji, Baba Sri Chand Ji: KA accuses Bhai Veer Singh Ji of lying about Baba Sri Chand Ji, and refers to such writers as "Sikhi day Vayree" (enemies of the Sikhs).
• Amritsar Sarovar: KA implies that there is no basis behind the belief that partaking ishnan in Amritsar sarovar will wash away one's sins. He states that it has nothing to do whatsoever with the Gurbani verse : "RamDaas Sarova Natai || Sabh Utray Pap Kamatai||
• Baba Deep Singh Ji's memorial: KA argues against the need for a memorial for Baba Deep Singh Ji where Baba Ji's severed was laid to rest. He refers to this as idol worship. He questions even whether Baba Ji's severed head had fell at that particular place.
• Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit: KA questions the historical reference that (1)Amrit could revive the dead (the Panj Piarays).(2)Amrit could rid one of previous sins.(3)He states that this kind of belief will convince an Amritdharee to committ further sins.(4)He states that Guru Gobind Singh Ji never accepted the Panj as his Guru (Appay Guru Chella)(5)KA states that the reference to Guru Gobind Singh of reviving the Panj Piyarays after cutting their "sees" are pure lies.
• Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale: KA states that Baba Jarnail Singh Ji committed acts that brought about the current downfall of the Panth. Baba Jarnail Singh Ji desecrated Sri Darbar Sahib when defended and fortified it. By giving shastars and motorcycles to the Sikh Youth, he (Baba Jarnail Singh) made us into murderers and robbers (dakoos). KA states that even after Baba Harnam Singh also joined in, their Panthic wishes were never fullfilled. He questions their sincerity and wonders if they were are all "bhekhee" (charlatans).
• Khanday-Batay da Amrit & Sweet Pittasay: KA states that to consider that sweet Pittasay were to be used in preparation of Amrit is a maha-Paap (enormous sin) since it implies that : (1) Dasam Patshah must have understood Naam-Amrit to be bitter. (2) Dasam Patshah had forgotten the Pittasay and his mistake was corrected by Mata Jito Jee. States that this Pittasay eposide is a myth and was made up by the enemies of this faith.
• Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit & 3 Banees of Dasam Patshah: KA ridicules reference to Jaap Sahib, Swaiyay, and Chaupai Sahib as Banees recited during Amrit-Sanchar.
• Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit & 5 Banees: KA states only the Banees in Guru Granth Sahib were part of the Amrit-Sanchar ceremony. To consider that other three (Jaap Sahib, Swaiyay, and Chaupai Sahib as Banees) were read by the Guru Gobind Singh Ji is utterly direspectful to our SatGurus.
• Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit & reviving of the Panj Piyaray & Shakti: KA ridicules the concept of Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit & reviving of the Panj Piaray & the divine powers (Shakti) of Amrit. He also referrs to Amrit-dharees as "Papian di Santaan" (offspring of sinners)
• Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit & Patits: KA states that was responsible for making Sikh children cut their Kes, smoke tobacco, and become Patits. States that for Sikhs, becoming a Singh is a "bharm" (superstition) of the mind. He also states that those who consider Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit as becoming "Guru-waley" (inititation into Sikhism) are mistaken.
• Amrit & Naam: KA states that calling Amrit Naam is BrahmanVaad.
• Jao Tao Premo Khellan… & Baba Deep Singh: KA ridicules the use of this tuk in reference to Baba Deep Singh deed of fighting with his sis on his palm.
• Adultery & Bhai Randhir Singh: KA states that Bhai Randhir Singh Ji wrote that Adultery was allowed in the Rahit.
• Charan-Amrit: KA ridicules that Sikh tradition of Charan-Amrit that existed until Khanday-Batay-da-Amrit replaced it in 1699. He refers to it as a Brahmanic ritual.
• Panj Piaray & Guru Gobind Singh Ji: He states that Guru Gobind Singh Ji never accepted the Panj as his Guru (Appay Guru Chella)
• Panj Piaray & Amritdharis: KA ridicules Panj Piaray & Amritdharis, tells story of a man who was so fed up with Amritdharis that he cut his Kes and never kept them again.
• Anand-Karj: He ridicules the Panth Parvan Anand-Karj Ceremony. Lables the Anand Maryada as based on Brahmanic Rituals.
• Bhai Randhir Singh: Labels Bhai Randhir Singh as a "Bipree Agent" (an agent of the Brahmans)
• Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhindranwale & others: Ridicules Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhindranwale, and other Mahapurakhs for having belief in Chitar-Gupt, Dharam-Raaj, Jums, Narak/Surag, and the afterworld.
• Khanday-Batay, Amrit & Mantar: States that the water put in a sarovar or bowl (Khanday-Batay) can never be called Amrit. Nor can anyone blow any Mantar (WaheGuru) in water and turn it into anything powerful (Amrit). He credits the Brahmans for creating such a belief.

Whatever his deficiencies as a human being, Mr. Afghana has a talent for stirring the pot. That could be one reason why so many are antagonized by his behavior. I myself cannot tell if he is just looking for a fight, or actually wants to have a reciprocal exchange of views. And he doesn't have much patience with Hindus. So are his test questions sincere or not? Can a reasonably objective person be blamed for being suspicious if he/she can't tell if Mr. Afghana is testing established beliefs to get closer to the "truth" (with a small t) as he sees it, or is simply out to enjoy the thrill of target practice?​

http://w

 

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

It is very thoughtful of you to resurrect this old commentary by me regarding Kala Afghana. A couple of thoughts occurred to me which perhaps you will find interesting. But before I go there allow me to provide the link which was my source for the list of issues raised i the post above. Here is the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kala_Afgana

Ok. The list, found at the link above, appears on a Wikipedia page and the editors of Wikipedia have noted


This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page. (October 2008)

This article has been nominated to be checked for its neutrality. Discussion of this nomination can be found on the talk page. (October 2008)

This article's tone or style may not be appropriate for Wikipedia. Specific concerns may be found on the talk page. See Wikipedia's guide to writing better articles for suggestions. (October 2008)

This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this article if you can. (August 2007)

Apparently the Wikipedia editors had problems with the accuracy and the neutrality of the account given by the anonymous author. This suggests that the author may not have his facts right or may have taken an extremely biased view of Kala Afghana. We should take everything we read about Kala Afghana with a grain of salt. As I said in my earlier post -- we should not be surprised -- because an unbiased view of Kala Afghana is hard to find on the Internet. In fact, SPN may hold the record for having at least a few commentators who are willing to be objective.

As i read what I wrote months ago I have to say that I continue to hold the view, "Whatever his deficiencies as a human being, Mr. Afghana has a talent for stirring the pot. That could be one reason why so many are antagonized by his behavior. I myself cannot tell if he is just looking for a fight, or actually wants to have a reciprocal exchange of views. And he doesn't have much patience with Hindus. So are his test questions sincere or not? Can a reasonably objective person be blamed for being suspicious if he/she can't tell if Mr. Afghana is testing established beliefs to get closer to the "truth" (with a small t) as he sees it, or is simply out to enjoy the thrill of target practice?"

On the few YouTube videos I have watched Mr. Afghana seems sincere. Since I have not been able to acquire any of his books in recent months, because they are not available for sale, I can't answer my own questions to my personal satisfaction. And given the lack of objectivity among most participants in this debate -- one can hardly expect accurate, unbiased information information or logical deductions 100 percent of the time. It just isn't there.

So now tell me. What was the point you were trying to make by posting this?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The SAME point Perhaps that is made by posting (Jathedar Akal Takhat EX) Prof Darshan Singh Ragi singing dg banis in the early years of hsi career...

He ahs issued hundreds of CLARIFICATIONS that that is his early LIFE..NOW he having leant about the REAL dsm Granth he is NOT supportign it anymore...BUT NO..his early viudeos continue to be put up byt eh ProDG guys...

IT DOESNT WORK..PEOPLE CHANGE..people have a RIGHT to CHANGE..People MATURE..LEARN ..Gain new Knowledge.... ONLY A UTTER **** refuses to change/acknowledge his earlier mistakes.../alter accordingly to new discoveries..:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

 

[Inder singh]

now tell me. What was the point you were trying to make by posting this?

I have read some of kala afghana books. i posted some of his observations in this thread and those were deleted. So we have a reference for same.

You have seen his video. But his books are there. What is the connection between two? Does that mean by seeing his video you have started believing in what he wrote in his books?

 

[Inder singh]

The SAME point Perhaps that is made by posting (Jathedar Akal Takhat EX) Prof Darshan Singh Ragi singing dg banis in the early years of hsi career...

He ahs issued hundreds of CLARIFICATIONS that that is his early LIFE..NOW he having leant about the REAL dsm Granth he is NOT supportign it anymore...BUT NO..his early viudeos continue to be put up byt eh ProDG guys...

IT DOESNT WORK..PEOPLE CHANGE..people have a RIGHT to CHANGE..People MATURE..LEARN ..Gain new Knowledge.... ONLY A UTTER **** refuses to change/acknowledge his earlier mistakes.../alter accordingly to new discoveries..:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

Giani ji

ragi was doing kirtan of dasam bani till a few years back. He still has not understood about Dasam granth as in one of his audio recordings he was saying why guru gobind singh did not mention Amrit sanchar ceremony in Dasam Granth?

 

[Inder singh]

Giani ji

Some audio clips of Darshan singh's knowledge about Dasam bani.


Inder ji: Would you please post the web link for this information so that there is a public citation or reference for the information below? Thanks, aad0002

Darshan Singh Ragi's blasphemy




"IN ADDITION TO SRI DASAM GRANTH THERE ARE 20 to 25 OTHER 'GRANTHS' UNDER THE NAME OF GURU GOBIND SINGH SAHIB"

Maybe Darshan Singh should care to provide references and evidences to the outrageous claims that he makes in sangat. As with his other comments, this comment too holds no truth, but is a product of his own imagination.



"DARSHAN SINGH'S (UN)KNOWLEDGE ABOUT SRI DASAM GRANTH AND ITS HISTORY"



Darshan Singh:"There are more than 15 beerhs of Sri Dasam Granth under the name of Bhai Mani Singh".

Fact: There is only one 'Bhai Mani Singh beerh' which right now is in the possession of the family of Raja Gulabh Singh. Bhai Mani Singh beerh has the banees of both the granths, Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, in one bind. Click here to see some pictures of Bhai Mani Singh beerhalong with other important beerhs of Sri Dasam Granth



Darshan Singh: "Why there is no mention of Amrit Sanchar in Sri Dasam Granth?" He challenges Guru's wisdom by asking, "ki Guru bhul gaya?" ("Did Guru forget?")

Fact: Almost every composition within Sri Dasam Granth has been sealed with the date when that composition was written (completed) and the place where Guru Sahib wrote that composition.
Some examples:
ਸੱਤ੍ਰਹ ਸੈ ਪੈਤਾਲ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਵਨ ਸੁਦਿ ਥਿਤਿ ਦੀਪ॥ ਨਗਰ ਪਾਂਵਟਾ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਨ ਜਮਨਾ ਬਹੈ ਸਮੀਪ ॥2490॥

(This work has been completed) in the year 1745 of the Vikrami era in the Sudi aspect of the moon in the month of Sawan, (July 1688 A.D.) in the town of Paonta at the auspicious hour, on banks of the flowing Yamuna. (Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib in ‘Krishnavtar’)
ਸੰਬਤ ਸਤ੍ਰਹ ਸਹਸ ਭਿਣਜੈ ॥ ਅਰਧ ਸਹਸ ਫੁਨਿ ਤੀਨਿ ਕਿਹਜੈ ॥ ਭਾਦ੍ਰਵ ਸੁਦੀ ਅਸਟਮੀ ਰਵਿ ਵਾਰਾ ॥ ਤੀਰ ਸਤੁਦ੍ਰਵ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ॥405॥

This (part of) Granth was completed on Sunday, the 18th day of month of Bhadon, in 1753 Bikrami Sammat (August 24, 1696 A.D.) on the banks of river Satluj. (Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib in ‘Charitropakhyan’)
ਸੰਮਤ ਸੱਤ੍ਰਹ ਸਹਸ ਪਚਾਵਨ॥ਹਾੜ ਵਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸੁਖ ਦਾਵਨ ॥ਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ॥ਭੂਲ ਪਰੀ ਲਹੁ ਲੇਹੁ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ॥860॥

This (part of) Granth has been completed (and improved) in Vadifirst in the month of Asaarh in the year 1755 Bikrami; if there has remained any error in it, then kindly correct it. (Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib in ‘Ramavtaar’)
It was a brilliant idea to record the date, time, place and year of the completion of this work. This is also evident from the closing lines of Chritropakhyan, the fourteenth composition. Guru Sahib writes:
"On the banks of river Satluj the granth was completed on Sunday, Bhadro Sudi Eighth 1753 bikrami(1696 A.D). This closes the dialogue between the King and his ministers and with this the four hundred and four episodes come to a good end".
ਸੰਬਤ ਸਤ੍ਰਹ ਸਹਸ ਭਣਿਜੈ॥ ਅਰਧ ਸਹਸ ਫੁਨਿ ਤੀਨਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ॥ਭਾਦ੍ਰਵ ਸੁਦੀ ਅਸਟਮੀ ਰਵਿ ਵਾਰਾ। ਤੀਰ ਸਤੁਦ੍ਰਵ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ।।405॥ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਖਯਾਨੇ ਤਿਆ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਭੂਪ ਸੰਪਾਦੇ ਚਾਰ ਸੌ ਚਾਰ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਮਾਪਤ ਸਤੁ ਸੁਭਮ ਸਤੁ।।404।।7555।।ਅਫਜੂੰ।।


So the internal evidence shows that major part (except for Zafarnamah that was written in 1704 AD) of 'Sri Dasam Granth' (or 'Patshah Dasven Ji Ka Granth' as it was called at that time) was completed in 1696 AD. Hence it is common sense that Sri Dasam Granth could not contain references to those events and incidents that took place later on such as 'Formation of Khalsa' (1699 AD) and 'Battle of Chamkaur' (1704 AD). However those incidents that took place before 1696 AD, such as 'Battle of Bhangani' (1686 AD), have been meticulously reported by Guru Sahib in his writings.

Now Darshan Singh either knows the facts and is trying to ignore them, or he does not know the facts. If the former is true then he clearly has some vicious motive behind spreading hatred for Guru Gobind Sahib and his banee. And if the latter is true then he should spend time learning and understanding a subject, instead of spreading wrong information among sangat. Click here to view the oldest beerh of Sri Dasam Granth from 1698 AD.



Darshan Singh: "Sri Dasam Granth came into existence 100 years after Guru Gobind Singh Sahib. It was made by collecting some material from Guru Sahib's library"

Fact: The first part of Darshan Singh's claim holds no truth. The internal dates from different compositions, the beerh of 1698 AD, and later compilation of the complete banees of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib by Bhai Mani Singh Ji in 1721 AD, proves beyond any doubt that the banees and the Granth was present during the time of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib.

Darshan Singh first criticises the banees of Sri Dasam Granth, and then without any supporting evidence claims that Sri Dasam Granth was made by collecting different material from the library of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib, hence again attacking the wisdom of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib.



"ATTACKS ARDAAS"

Towing the line of Arya Samaj, RSS and Dayanand, Darshan Singh shamelessly criticizes the entire Guru Panth and panthic leadership which formulated the Sikh Rahit Maryada. Darshan S shamelessly attacks Vaar Sri Bhaguati ji ki, the first pauree of our Ardaas, by saying that "even then there were these type of people who put this durga devi's prayer in our Rahit Maryada".
"DISTORTS HISTORY AND MAKES HIS OWN '{censored} & BULL STORY"

Darshan Singh appears to be a compulsive liar. Bhai Kahn Singh in 'Gurmat Martand' published by SGPC records the fact of history that Bhai Mani Singh ji had collected the complete banees of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and compiled Sri Dasam Granth, and Baba Deep Singh ji had brought it to Damadama Sahib. At Damdama Sahib the Singhs discussed whether Sri Dasam Granth Sahib should be kept in one volume or preserved in different volumes subject-wise. This clearly shows that Sri Dasam Granth Sahib was there with them in one bind. There was no dispute about the authorship of the Granth. The Singhs were only discussing the matter and there was no dispute. Bhai Kahn Singh notes that Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh told the gathering that if they come back after accomplishing their mission of killing Massa Rangarh then this volume prepared by Bhai Mani Singh ji be preserved, otherwise it be kept in separate pothis.

However, reversing this historic incident to suit his own anti-Sikh agenda, Darshan S concocts his own {censored} and bull story and casts aspersions on Bhai Kahan Singh by saying that the compositions were present in different volumes and that the singhs were fighting amongst themselves on whether they should combine different compositions in one bind. Misquoting the historical event he further states, "Sukha Singh & Mehtab Singh said if we come back after killing Massa Ranghar then these separate pothis be combined in one volume, otherwise let these remain unbound".



"A COMPUSIVE LIAR"

Ex-Ragi Darshan S had been doing keertan from every composition of Sri Dasam Granth includingchritro-pakhyan, bachittar natak, chandi di vaar, chaubis avtar etc. And now he is spitting venom against all these banees.

When asked by his own self-arranged-interviewer about this changed stance, he replies that he was doing keertan of those compositions which conform with the ideology of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and he still continues to do the keertan of those compositions.

The truth is that Darshan S is on record of criticising every banee from Sri Dasam Granth which he himself was revering and was doing keertan and katha of at one time.

Why did he suddenly change his belief and turn his guns towards Dasam bani is anyone's guess.



To be continued....

 

[Inder singh]

It seems the audio clips are not transferred. One can view those at the link below

Darshan Singh Ragi's blasphemy

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Well das was invited by one very close person of Ragi Ji, in Delhi for a deabte with him, but in close room. Das wanted it in open. They are yet to respond.

Outside the room of Gyani T{censored}em Singh, in his office of president Dharam Prachar Committee, DSGPC there was a poster by Ragi Ji, in which he says that it is OK to read Japu Sahib, Swwayye and Chaupayee Sahib and he is against the Parallel Prakash of any book other then Shri Guru Granth Sahib.

While his followers say Japu Sahib should also be discarded.(A lady wanted das to talk to him, but later put back her mobile in her bag).

Das anyway writes another clarification, Which is there in article number 39

Sri Dasam Granth Sahib

The article is by Nanak Singh Ji Nishter.

Here there is something common between code of Hazuri Sikhs and Nihungs Singhs. Which is same with SGPC Rahit Maryada.

No other book to be deemed as Guru other than Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Not to bow to any book other than Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If to open/Prakash any Panthic/Sikh book/Granth it has to be done only in the presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji's presence and shadow of our eternal Guru.

As per Baba Darshan Singh Ji Akali of Budhadal Patiala. As per Maryada of Nihungs, Our King Shri Guru Granth Sahib(King of spiritual saintly hood) sits in center. on "his" right hand side is the minster of politics(Shri Dasham Granth Sahib for Meeri) and on "his" left sit the minister of War(Shri Sarbloh Granth Sahib for Sipahi concept).

In Delhi, we have Palki only for Adi Guru Darbar as we call Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Das was told that there are Gurudwaras is Hajur Sahib other than Takhats(Takhat is not Gurudwara, there actual bowing and veneration is not done to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but weapons, this is true for Three Takhats of Punjab only).

If taksal or such Gurudwaras are doing such thing then it is not as per Gurmat. So keeping both the text at the same level and not giving the status of central attention to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, is wrong also in those who do open other texts in presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

No one can make son equal to father.

Anyway as per very senior missionary (Just hint to respected Gyani Sahib that with this missionary, of whom das is not only a student but just like son, there was debate on Sikh marg about his support to rebirth) Ragi Ji are playing with politicians, (which could even make his Valid point weak as those politician want faith to be separated from politics.)
Forgive if any thing offending is said.

 

[Inder singh]

Giani ji

Some audio clips of Darshan singh's knowledge about Dasam bani.


Inder ji: Would you please post the web link for this information so that there is a public citation or reference for the information below? Thanks, aad0002

Darshan Singh Ragi's blasphemy




"IN ADDITION TO SRI DASAM GRANTH THERE ARE 20 to 25 OTHER 'GRANTHS' UNDER THE NAME OF GURU GOBIND SINGH SAHIB"

Maybe Darshan Singh should care to provide references and evidences to the outrageous claims that he makes in sangat. As with his other comments, this comment too holds no truth, but is a product of his own imagination.



"DARSHAN SINGH'S (UN)KNOWLEDGE ABOUT SRI DASAM GRANTH AND ITS HISTORY"



Darshan Singh:"There are more than 15 beerhs of Sri Dasam Granth under the name of Bhai Mani Singh".

Fact: There is only one 'Bhai Mani Singh beerh' which right now is in the possession of the family of Raja Gulabh Singh. Bhai Mani Singh beerh has the banees of both the granths, Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, in one bind. Click here to see some pictures of Bhai Mani Singh beerhalong with other important beerhs of Sri Dasam Granth



Darshan Singh: "Why there is no mention of Amrit Sanchar in Sri Dasam Granth?" He challenges Guru's wisdom by asking, "ki Guru bhul gaya?" ("Did Guru forget?")

Fact: Almost every composition within Sri Dasam Granth has been sealed with the date when that composition was written (completed) and the place where Guru Sahib wrote that composition.
Some examples:
ਸੱਤ੍ਰਹ ਸੈ ਪੈਤਾਲ ਮਹਿ ਸਾਵਨ ਸੁਦਿ ਥਿਤਿ ਦੀਪ॥ ਨਗਰ ਪਾਂਵਟਾ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਨ ਜਮਨਾ ਬਹੈ ਸਮੀਪ ॥2490॥

(This work has been completed) in the year 1745 of the Vikrami era in the Sudi aspect of the moon in the month of Sawan, (July 1688 A.D.) in the town of Paonta at the auspicious hour, on banks of the flowing Yamuna. (Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib in ‘Krishnavtar’)
ਸੰਬਤ ਸਤ੍ਰਹ ਸਹਸ ਭਿਣਜੈ ॥ ਅਰਧ ਸਹਸ ਫੁਨਿ ਤੀਨਿ ਕਿਹਜੈ ॥ ਭਾਦ੍ਰਵ ਸੁਦੀ ਅਸਟਮੀ ਰਵਿ ਵਾਰਾ ॥ ਤੀਰ ਸਤੁਦ੍ਰਵ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ॥405॥

This (part of) Granth was completed on Sunday, the 18th day of month of Bhadon, in 1753 Bikrami Sammat (August 24, 1696 A.D.) on the banks of river Satluj. (Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib in ‘Charitropakhyan’)
ਸੰਮਤ ਸੱਤ੍ਰਹ ਸਹਸ ਪਚਾਵਨ॥ਹਾੜ ਵਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸੁਖ ਦਾਵਨ ॥ਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕਰਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ॥ਭੂਲ ਪਰੀ ਲਹੁ ਲੇਹੁ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ ॥860॥

This (part of) Granth has been completed (and improved) in Vadifirst in the month of Asaarh in the year 1755 Bikrami; if there has remained any error in it, then kindly correct it. (Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib in ‘Ramavtaar’)
It was a brilliant idea to record the date, time, place and year of the completion of this work. This is also evident from the closing lines of Chritropakhyan, the fourteenth composition. Guru Sahib writes:
"On the banks of river Satluj the granth was completed on Sunday, Bhadro Sudi Eighth 1753 bikrami(1696 A.D). This closes the dialogue between the King and his ministers and with this the four hundred and four episodes come to a good end".
ਸੰਬਤ ਸਤ੍ਰਹ ਸਹਸ ਭਣਿਜੈ॥ ਅਰਧ ਸਹਸ ਫੁਨਿ ਤੀਨਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ॥ਭਾਦ੍ਰਵ ਸੁਦੀ ਅਸਟਮੀ ਰਵਿ ਵਾਰਾ। ਤੀਰ ਸਤੁਦ੍ਰਵ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸੁਧਾਰਾ।।405॥ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਖਯਾਨੇ ਤਿਆ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਭੂਪ ਸੰਪਾਦੇ ਚਾਰ ਸੌ ਚਾਰ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਮਾਪਤ ਸਤੁ ਸੁਭਮ ਸਤੁ।।404।।7555।।ਅਫਜੂੰ।।


So the internal evidence shows that major part (except for Zafarnamah that was written in 1704 AD) of 'Sri Dasam Granth' (or 'Patshah Dasven Ji Ka Granth' as it was called at that time) was completed in 1696 AD. Hence it is common sense that Sri Dasam Granth could not contain references to those events and incidents that took place later on such as 'Formation of Khalsa' (1699 AD) and 'Battle of Chamkaur' (1704 AD). However those incidents that took place before 1696 AD, such as 'Battle of Bhangani' (1686 AD), have been meticulously reported by Guru Sahib in his writings.

Now Darshan Singh either knows the facts and is trying to ignore them, or he does not know the facts. If the former is true then he clearly has some vicious motive behind spreading hatred for Guru Gobind Sahib and his banee. And if the latter is true then he should spend time learning and understanding a subject, instead of spreading wrong information among sangat. Click here to view the oldest beerh of Sri Dasam Granth from 1698 AD.



Darshan Singh: "Sri Dasam Granth came into existence 100 years after Guru Gobind Singh Sahib. It was made by collecting some material from Guru Sahib's library"

Fact: The first part of Darshan Singh's claim holds no truth. The internal dates from different compositions, the beerh of 1698 AD, and later compilation of the complete banees of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib by Bhai Mani Singh Ji in 1721 AD, proves beyond any doubt that the banees and the Granth was present during the time of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib.

Darshan Singh first criticises the banees of Sri Dasam Granth, and then without any supporting evidence claims that Sri Dasam Granth was made by collecting different material from the library of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib, hence again attacking the wisdom of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib.



"ATTACKS ARDAAS"

Towing the line of Arya Samaj, RSS and Dayanand, Darshan Singh shamelessly criticizes the entire Guru Panth and panthic leadership which formulated the Sikh Rahit Maryada. Darshan S shamelessly attacks Vaar Sri Bhaguati ji ki, the first pauree of our Ardaas, by saying that "even then there were these type of people who put this durga devi's prayer in our Rahit Maryada".
"DISTORTS HISTORY AND MAKES HIS OWN '{censored} & BULL STORY"

Darshan Singh appears to be a compulsive liar. Bhai Kahn Singh in 'Gurmat Martand' published by SGPC records the fact of history that Bhai Mani Singh ji had collected the complete banees of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and compiled Sri Dasam Granth, and Baba Deep Singh ji had brought it to Damadama Sahib. At Damdama Sahib the Singhs discussed whether Sri Dasam Granth Sahib should be kept in one volume or preserved in different volumes subject-wise. This clearly shows that Sri Dasam Granth Sahib was there with them in one bind. There was no dispute about the authorship of the Granth. The Singhs were only discussing the matter and there was no dispute. Bhai Kahn Singh notes that Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh told the gathering that if they come back after accomplishing their mission of killing Massa Rangarh then this volume prepared by Bhai Mani Singh ji be preserved, otherwise it be kept in separate pothis.

However, reversing this historic incident to suit his own anti-Sikh agenda, Darshan S concocts his own {censored} and bull story and casts aspersions on Bhai Kahan Singh by saying that the compositions were present in different volumes and that the singhs were fighting amongst themselves on whether they should combine different compositions in one bind. Misquoting the historical event he further states, "Sukha Singh & Mehtab Singh said if we come back after killing Massa Ranghar then these separate pothis be combined in one volume, otherwise let these remain unbound".



"A COMPUSIVE LIAR"

Ex-Ragi Darshan S had been doing keertan from every composition of Sri Dasam Granth includingchritro-pakhyan, bachittar natak, chandi di vaar, chaubis avtar etc. And now he is spitting venom against all these banees.

When asked by his own self-arranged-interviewer about this changed stance, he replies that he was doing keertan of those compositions which conform with the ideology of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and he still continues to do the keertan of those compositions.

The truth is that Darshan S is on record of criticising every banee from Sri Dasam Granth which he himself was revering and was doing keertan and katha of at one time.

Why did he suddenly change his belief and turn his guns towards Dasam bani is anyone's guess.



To be continued....

I apologize for not inserting the web link. It is given below

Darshan Singh Ragi's blasphemy

 

[spnadmin]

The thread is moving in circles, revisiting old information that has been posted on this forum and other forums for many months. The thread is closed. aad0002