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Christianity John 15:13

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by namjiwankaur, Sep 15, 2012.

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  1. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    Gurfateh

    The Americans' remains arrived at Andrews and there is a service happening right now. Its very somber, obviously.

    President Obama quoted a verse twice from the Bible. I haven't read from the Bible for many years, but the verse he quoted is something I relate to on a totally different level now as I explore Sikhi.

    Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)

    Hearing this at a time like this goes deep. And it shows me even more how great Sikhi is because it is about defending others not only ourselves or our own.

    Nam Jiwan peacesignkaur
     
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  3. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    I still remember most of my bible teachings whilst back in school. In the UK, unlike here, it used to be mandatory to be teaching the bible at school regardless of what faith one would be. I suppose that christians were the majority back then, afterall the Queen was not just seen as the head of the country but was regarded as the 'head of the Church of England' !!

    Anyway, when I first came across naam or the name as defined simply at first in sikhism, I couldn't help thinking about the 'Word'.

    The Word as in John 1.1
    - ''In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the Word was God''

    later, we were taught that it also translated to 'Jesus was the word''
    I always felt that this 'word' was important, as it was the word that was said to be in the water used for baptism by John. John baptised Jesus and Jesus didn't baptise anyone.

    The correlation between word and naam is interesting, as they both cannot be simply defined in one sentence.
     
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  4. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    Yes! People call some things symbolic or metaphor, but they seem to be expressing Truth.

    I have noticed the mystical esoteric quality in some of this also. There is so much Truth hidden inside words.

    As for the Word, I view this ayat from Quran as the sound vibration also.

    And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: “Tell me the names of these if you are truthful.”

    They said: “Glory be to You! We possess no knowledge save what You have taught us. Indeed, You alone are All-Knowing, the Wise.”

    He said: “O Adam! Inform them of their names.” When he had informed them, Allah said: “Did I not tell you that I know what is unseen in the heavens and on Earth, and I know what you reveal and what you hide?” [Quran 2: 31-33]

    First of all, adamah itself is a word that means red earth & also man. Books could be written on that alone. Similarly, we can see that when Adam "learned the names", it was earth learning to mesh with Light and Sound in various ways. Also, in Islam, there are the 99 Names of God. Reciting those Names we call on the Quality of that Name. IE- For peace, we call out Ya Salaam!

    All religions honor the Divine calling out His/Her Name. What happens on the earthly plane when we call out each others names. If I call out Lucky ji's name, he responds almost always by answering the call.

    Once we start to get glimpses of the world hidden behind all this maya, the world leaves us in a state of awe. All of a sudden every leaf, drop of water, note of a song shines with Light. I realize, on a new level, how to interact with the universe. This is what the recitation of the Naam is about.

    In Kemetic science (Ancient Egyptian religion), there is also a lot about the use of Sound/Naam/Names. I will try to get another post together on that in the near future.

    :sippingcoffee:


     
  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    I can agree that the Word was God but 'Jesus was the word' is corrupted teachings because Christians Misunderstand the Bible and are easily influenced by pastors who may say anything once they have mesmerized the mass. Heavy doses of brain-washing occur in places of worship, not only in the churches but also in the gurdwara so much so that the real teachings are lost.

    You see, there is a parallel existing in both Sikhism and Christianity. The misuse of phrases.
    In Sikhism, Amrit is misused to mean the Khande di Pahul. Amrit is not sweetened water with the recitation of the 5 banis. You can't make amrit, it is experienced as in - Amrit Bani Har Har Teri, Sunn Sunn Hovei Paramgat Meri. Amrit is the Word, Bani, Shabad, Naam.
     
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    #4 Astroboy, Sep 15, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
  6. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    Gurfateh

    _/|\_

    Astroboy ji,

    I have had many beliefs about Jesus over the years. From thinking that he never existed at all to the Gnostic understanding of Sophia within Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Even if he didn't exist, his words and truths embrace the Real or are embraced by the Real. Even if Gnosticism defines Jesus, his words embrace or are embraced Real.

    Nowadays I see Jesus and I both reveal something of the Real.

    I have seen this in Christianity, but I don't know enough about Sikhi so I hope you can share some on how Sikhs been brainwashed?

    For those of us who do not know Punjabi/Gurmukhi, could you translate terms like the one above into English. I was unable to locate Amrit Bani Har Har Teri, Sunn Sunn Hovei Paramgat Meri. Amrit is the Word, Bani, Shabad, Naam by Googling. Could you translate it for me?

    icecreamkudi
     
  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Namjiwankaur Ji,

    SPN administrator has repeatedly informed us
    that it is mandatory to post the whole shabad
    and not just a one liner. So here is the full shabad
    from the website srigranth.org which is from
    page 103 Line 7 onwards:-

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ
    माझ महला ५ ॥
    Mājẖ mėhlā 5.
    Maajh, Fifth Mehl:
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ
    अम्रित बाणी हरि हरि तेरी ॥
    Amriṯ baṇī har har ṯerī.
    The Word of Your Bani, Lord, is Ambrosial Nectar.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ
    सुणि सुणि होवै परम गति मेरी ॥
    Suṇ suṇ hovai param gaṯ merī.
    Hearing it again and again, I am elevated to the supreme heights.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਲਨਿ ਬੁਝੀ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਮਨੂਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
    जलनि बुझी सीतलु होइ मनूआ सतिगुर का दरसनु पाए जीउ ॥१॥
    Jalan bujẖī sīṯal ho▫e manū▫ā saṯgur kā ḏarsan pā▫e jī▫o. ||1||
    The burning within me has been extinguished, and my mind has been cooled and soothed, by the Blessed Vision of the True Guru. ||1||
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੂਖੁ ਭਇਆ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੂਰਿ ਪਰਾਨਾ
    सूखु भइआ दुखु दूरि पराना ॥
    Sūkẖ bẖa▫i▫ā ḏukẖ ḏūr parānā.
    Happiness is obtained, and sorrow runs far away,
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੰਤ ਰਸਨ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਨਾ
    संत रसन हरि नामु वखाना ॥
    Sanṯ rasan har nām vakẖānā.
    when the Saints chant the Lord's Name.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਲ ਥਲ ਨੀਰਿ ਭਰੇ ਸਰ ਸੁਭਰ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਕੋਇ ਜਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
    जल थल नीरि भरे सर सुभर बिरथा कोइ न जाए जीउ ॥२॥
    Jal thal nīr bẖare sar subẖar birthā ko▫e na jā▫e jī▫o. ||2||
    The sea, the dry land, and the lakes are filled with the Water of the Lord's Name; no place is left empty. ||2||
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਦਇਆ ਧਾਰੀ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਿਰਜਨਹਾਰੇ
    दइआ धारी तिनि सिरजनहारे ॥
    Ḏa▫i▫ā ḏẖārī ṯin sirjanhāre.
    The Creator has showered His Kindness;
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਗਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਰੇ
    जीअ जंत सगले प्रतिपारे ॥
    Jī▫a janṯ sagle parṯipāre.
    He cherishes and nurtures all beings and creatures.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨ ਕਿਰਪਾਲ ਦਇਆਲਾ ਸਗਲੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਅਘਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
    मिहरवान किरपाल दइआला सगले त्रिपति अघाए जीउ ॥३॥
    Miharvān kirpāl ḏa▫i▫ālā sagle ṯaripaṯ agẖā▫e jī▫o. ||3||
    He is Merciful, Kind and Compassionate. All are satisfied and fulfilled through Him. ||3||
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਵਣੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਣੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਕੀਤੋਨੁ ਹਰਿਆ
    वणु त्रिणु त्रिभवणु कीतोनु हरिआ ॥
    vaṇ ṯariṇ ṯaribẖavaṇ kīṯon hari▫ā.
    The woods, the meadows and the three worlds are rendered green.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਰਣਹਾਰਿ ਖਿਨ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ
    करणहारि खिन भीतरि करिआ ॥
    Karanhār kẖin bẖīṯar kari▫ā.
    The Doer of all did this in an instant.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੈ ਅਰਾਧੇ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਆਸ ਪੁਜਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੨੩॥੩੦॥
    गुरमुखि नानक तिसै अराधे मन की आस पुजाए जीउ ॥४॥२३॥३०॥
    Gurmukẖ Nānak ṯisai arāḏẖe man kī ās pujā▫e jī▫o. ||4||23||30||
    As Gurmukh, Nanak meditates on the One who fulfills the desires of the mind. ||4||23||30||
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
     
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    #6 Astroboy, Sep 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  8. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    Sat Nam _/|\_

    Astroboy ji

    I want to do it correctly. I haven't done it because I know shabad means hymn, but I don't know how to tell where a shabad begins and ends. I studied how you did it and I think I have figured it out now. Does it begin where it says "mehla & the number which, if I understand right, tells which guru the shabad is from? And then the verse before there is another "mehla & number" is where it ends?

    I apologize for not getting this figured out sooner.

    Nam Jiwan
     
  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Shabad is the essence of God that does the controlling of creating, sustaining and destruction of the Universe. But we also refer shabad as a hymn.
     
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