Jhatka Used for Tilak

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by hmatharu, Sep 21, 2009.


  1. hmatharu

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

    Please somebody explain to me what is meaning of this? I was told by my cousin that at Hazoor Sahib, at the end of Akhand Path, they sacrifice a lamb and use the blood for Tilak. I recently had a chance to check this out myself on the Youtube. I did not believe my cousin at first, but when I saw it with own eyes, I could not believe. This is Barbaric. Sikhs, especially Amritdhari, performing this act, and at Hazoor Sahib Gurdwara. We are suppose to be .... I am sorry I can't understand this. I feel very saddened.

    Waheguru, bhul chuk maaf karna.

    Harjit Singh
     
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  2. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh SPN Sewadaar
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    Ok let me explain something about Hazoor Sahib:

    1. These Sikhs are descended from the original Sikhs that accompanied Guru Gobind Singh. Fought Battles with him and were his personal body guard. They also carry on traditions from 300 years ago, that were around at Guru Gobinds Singh ji time, include Shastar Tilak.
    2. Shastar Tilak is a Kshatriya tradition. The Guru's were Kshatriya and therefore, it is likely they did this too.
    3. The goat is NOT sacrificed, it is Jhatkad and eaten. It is not wasted.
    4. What do you find Barbaric? The fact that Sikhs Jhatka, or weapons are anointed with blood? Either way, if you shirk from the site of blood, how do expect to be a warrior? If the Guru's did this too (which is likely), would you consider them barbaric?
    5. Lastly read this, http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-news/24666-sacrifice-at-hazur-sahib-myth-truth.html before you comment further.
     
  3. faujasingh

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    What i feel is, a man offers to GOd what he eats and slaughtering a goat with a swift is belived to inculcate a martial spirit in the minds of the people, this in fact was for testing the weapons before war. Trust me its not easy, there are one thousand thoughts coming before you try to give 'stroke' when it is the first time . The decapitating at one go gives a kind of excitement and it is testing the blade and also the accuracy of the person who perfoms the act.
     
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  4. Tejwant Singh

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    I want the recipe.
     
  5. faujasingh

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    of what ?? :confused:
     
  6. Tejwant Singh

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    Of goat curry... Dah!!
     
  7. faujasingh

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    are chatkaing one now ?:D
     
  8. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh SPN Sewadaar
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    The Samurai's of Japan, used to do the same with animals.

    They were crueller from what I read, they would kill captured prisoners as practice (from what I have read).

    At least the Singh's get two things out of this:


    1. A taste of what it is actually like to cut through flesh
    2. Food
    Talking to a Martial artist, he tells me that when you actually kill something live there is no substitute. The Guru's also used hunting to train their soldiers, but no parts of the animals were wasted.
     
  9. hmatharu

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

    Thank you to all for your explanation, but I disagree with you all, and some the comments made, they take it as Joke. This is not joking matter. Randip Singh Ji's you asked me how I am to warrior, if I can see the sight of blood. First of all, correct if I am wrong. Did Guru Ji's not say, never raise your sword on the unarmed, it is to used to protect your Dharm, innocent, etc. To me being a warrior means, fighting battles against "Zulms", etc. You take sword and you...., where is the daya in that? From the samaagams, that I have attended, doesn't mention any of this, and that where I have growned into becoming a full Amritdhari Guru's Sikh. When Amrit sanchaars are done, the "Panj Piares", who initiate the ceremony, tells you specifically, ANDA, MEAT, SHRAB, NASHA KARNA, etc. is against Sikhism, Khalsa. Yhey even states that if you married, and only one takes Amrit, that there will be no husband/wife relationship, etc. Speaking for myself, only time will tell if I am loyal to my Guru and my dharam. I am just learning to become a Guru's Sikh.

    Bhul chuk maaf karna,

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
    Wahegur Ji Ki Fateh.
     
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  10. faujasingh

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    I respect yor sentiments hmatharu ji, see there is nothing wrong in thinking that way too. the basic element of kindness and a feeling towards another life is existing in us, thus some of us think like this too.Thats why our Gurus too have not insisted on hardcore vegeterianism or promoting meat, we are leaving it to the individual.Everyone's sensitivity is different, some take this issue like me and randip other's take it like as you do. However we need to give space to each other and stay under the the same roof of the Akaal Purakh Waheguru.
     
  11. hmatharu

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    Fauja Singh Ji's,

    Very very much thank you. You have made it more clear.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  12. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh SPN Sewadaar
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    STOP

    Did you even bother reading this:

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-news/24666-sacrifice-at-hazur-sahib-myth-truth.html


    I guess not or you would make the following comments:

    NO

    You are presuming this animal is innocent? How is this animal innocent? Please explain?


    NO

    Please do not confuse Daya with Ahimsa.

    Ahimsa is the way of non-violence.

    A person can be like Sadhana the Butcher and still have Daya.


    NO

    Sikhism bans intoxication, but it does not ban meat or eggs. That is a personal choice. Infact even intixicants like liquor and bhang can be used in a medicinal manner.

    To be a Khalsa, if they are telling you to not to eat meat and eggs then they are quoting their own Maryada, and not the SRM. Meat eating is a personal choice.


    Sorry, but this is ridiculous.

    No sexual relations with your wife after Amrit? That is sheer idiotic behaviour.

    PS You will note I am not as charitable as FaujaSinghji, because I am getting a bit tired of the meat related posts you keep posting.

    Also, if you have any meat related queries (because it is obvious it is something that plays on your mind), then read this:

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html
     
    #12 Randip Singh, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  13. faujasingh

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    Randip singh ji this entire debate is a pandora's box. I have lived a large part of my life surrounded by fanatic vegeterians who could chop me for chopping a chicken but would not even touch the chicken !

    I am a strict non vegeterian but do respect the sentiments of vegeterians, the more we argue over it the more there is counter arguement. I met nihangs of the tarna dal who dont do jhatka and have enough explanation to not do it and I met the nihangs of Budha dal who had enough reasons to do it .

    My say is why worry lets make chicken curry !:happy:
     
  14. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh SPN Sewadaar
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    Exactly.

    People would kill and attack a fellow human being to save a chicken.

    How ridiculous.

    I respect the sentiments of vegetarians. Hell I even keep separate dishes for them.....but I cannot respect pigheaded ness.

    Hmatharu, has been presumptuous in his post and has made judges without knowing, History, Bani, or read the article by Nanak Singh Nishter.

    I can take or leave meat, I just eat what is given to me. I do not judge, I do not purify, I eat whatever is given with good faith.

    But I do not tell vegetarians to eat meat. In the same way vegetarians should respect meat eaters and not tell them not to eat meat.

    Hmatharu is being judgemental, and I cannot respect that.
     
  15. faujasingh

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    the prob here is both sides have taken the Guru's word in their stride and supported their arguement. He knows the Bani what has been taught to him and we know what is taught to us. There is a large chunk of clergy amongst us who have the same views as our brother matharu. I dont blame him.
     
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  16. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh SPN Sewadaar
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    Maybe he should consider learning Bani himself, rather than learning it third hand from someone else?

    You are correct, I do not blame him, but not to read sources and evidence given to him is unforgivable.
     
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  17. faujasingh

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    Randip veer ji Banis are being edited big time and again it all depends what sangat a person is with, you know the dominance of certain jathas of today, will they let the Bani survive as it is ? They won't. We blame so many other people for being a bottle neck for parchaar, the truth we have a large chunk amongst us who want to give remixed Bani to suit their own ideas and whims. They shout 'brahmin and brahminism' sounding like 'islam khatre me hai' but they themselves are no less brahmins who wont eat from the common langar, they bring their own utensils and cook their own langar. Their entire philosophy is anti gurmat.

    Randip ji what we are heading for is a total chaos. We will have struggle to get the correct undiluted Bani. Bhai matharu ji might have been in touch of certain 'intellectuals' due to which there is some opposition when something different is coming up. There are many like him. All we can do is try to explain and do ardas for them. Rest all is Waheguru's wish.

    Peace
     
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  18. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh SPN Sewadaar
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    The upshot of this is the Paanth gets split.

    People who know me, know I have only one goal, and that is unity of Paanth. The meat issue is a needless issue that has been pushed forward.

    In my mind, alongside caste this issue is the most destructive issue in the Paanth.

    I really cannot understand why people cannot respect differences.

    Ironically if you ask these Jathabandi's (who have a hernia over a chicken drumstick), that caste should be ignored and differences respected, cannot apply the same logic to diet and ignore it, and respect differences.
     
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  19. faujasingh

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    Caste and diet are differences hard to resolve, on face they agree but their inner self does not let them sublime. I would never wish that the Panth split but i really dunno where are we going. There is a lot of cleaning to be done.
     
  20. Tejwant Singh

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    Panth is already split into different "Manmat Sects". All different Jathas fall into this catogory. We make our own rules and call ourselves Sants and babble what attracts money rather than Gurmat. We keep SGGS as an idol so people can leave money in front of it and fail to follow our Gurus' teachings.

    This meat thing is a guilt trip concocted by some Jathas to lasso people like Matharu veer ji. There are many more like him who are stuck in the same net by the same people who have no idea what Gurbani teaches us.

    So, once we start studying the SGGS, our ONLY GURU, and start putting the teachings given to us in this wonderful tool box, then only we can call ourselves Gursikhs and pass on what we have learnt to others like the scent of a flower which emits its scent in all directions sans bias. This is what true Sikhi is all about. Nothing more.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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