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Jehovah's Witnesses Are Out And Converting!

Discussion in 'Blogs' started by Navdeep88, Jul 31, 2016.

  1. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    I had a very interesting incident occur today.

    Living in a fairly ethnically saturated part of Canada (especially Indian), I encountered something odd. I don't live here anymore, but had come to see my parents and get some things done.

    Anywho, it's a gorgeous day and I happened to be walking on the sidewalk. Coming upon an intersection, I leaned to press the button to cross the road, when I came across a veeery friendly lady doing the same. She smiles and initiates conversation "It's sunny huh, it's not CHALI (40) degrees though" she said with a laugh.

    I tilted my head, feeling a little confused as this Caucasian woman continued with "This is nothing compared to when WE go back to India, huh?" she said with a laugh

    I quietly replied "I've mostly been here".

    She then asked me if I read and spoke Punjabi, to which I replied hesitantly "yes". She then begins to tell me about how she's learning Punjabi and starts to speak some Punjabi dialogue. At this point she's gone from a stranger to being quite an interesting stranger. I decide to open up a little bit.

    As we cross the road, she begins to describe how there's meetings where she learns Punjabi and tells me about them. I don't understand what's she's getting at because I'm not really a beginner Punjabi speaker. Why is she mentioning these meetings? I ask "Oh, what institution is offering these?" (assuming it must be a School or something).

    Once we have crossed the road, she pulls out her pamphlets in Punjabi and English, emphasising "It's Free, the meeting's Free".

    At this point I recognise what's happening, looking at the Jesus pamphet reading "mufat" and start to say to her "You know, there's a lot of different religions in the world, God has revealed himself (pardon the gender label) to many different people in different ways". (hoping she gets the hint that I'm not interested in where this is heading)

    She responds to this with something like "oh yes, God has revealed himself to over 10,000 different people... the BIBLE blah blah...."

    At this point, I can't help it. I'm uncomfortable and offended at being approached as easy convert prey. I'm not an overtly religious person, but I have a HUGE problem with any person that says ONLY their ideas/beliefs/group is right and everyone else is less than, unless they convert.

    She props open her bible and starts to state the daily verse about 'the kingdom'. I promptly say to her "What if I told you, I will Never believe in Jesus", looking her straight in the eye as my carefree walk has turned into something else.

    She responds "Well, that's your APNA FENSLA (own decision).Thanks for expressing it for me. I like people to at least look at their decisions every once in a while..."

    I respond "Yes, it's 100% my FENSLA. You know there's a lot of people that believe in Nothing these days, Family's are falling apart, the family structure is failing, people are directionless". She nods and agrees. I state that they need help. She agrees and thanks me for my expression.

    Thankfully, my bus comes and I hop aboard after saying goodbye to her. In the bus, I reflect upon this young woman eagerly learning Punjabi and approaching strangers like me on the sidewalk with smalltalk, and offering 'FREE' seminars (I informed her the Majority of religions offer free services).. to what end?
     
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  3. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    *I would Not describe the above as Interfaith Dialogue because that requires some openness on both parties and an awareness of the situation. Catching people when they're unaware is Sneaky. Also, approaching other people like they're Simpletons, like they're Less Than is not right.
     
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  4. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    Where I used to live, the JWs were a fairly constant presence. I did take one of their home study courses out of curiosity and thus learned for myself what they are all about. Their theology, in my opinion, is an insane mishmash of Bible and their leaders' very odd ideas.

    The worst sin a JW can commit is "independent thinking," this is, thinking for yourself rather than just accepting the teachings of the leaders of their religion. They are allowed to associate with non -believers only when necessary for business or education, or when doing Jehovah's work (proselytizing). If one wants to be your friend, remember that.

    I had a hard time getting rid of them (of course). I did it finally when I moved in to a locked apartment building where they couldn't get in the front door.
     
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  5. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    No Kidding. It was funny that even after I expressed disinterest, she still flipped open the Bible and started pointing out quotes. And the odd questions about 'allowing people to question their decisions'... The thing that stands out is the clear targeting of SouthAsians. Breaking the ice with a few punjabi slogans, being vague about your purpose and once you start conversing, BAM! the pamphlet, the verse, the Bible. Very rehearsed.
     
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  6. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    Be glad they just knock on your doors and annoy you.
    If you lived in the middle ages, they would have put you under trial under the inquisition for being an infidel or heretic and then you might be kept in dungeon for life .
    just saying LOL
     
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  7. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    And memorised!
     
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  8. JourneyOflife

    JourneyOflife
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    Just because Sikhs have become apathetic to spreading their religion despite the actions of the Gurus themselves (what was the purpose of Guru Nanak's Udasis, Guru Amar Das' Manjis and Guru Arjan Dev's Masands?), doesn't mean we can expect every other community to follow in our indifferent footsteps. The Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims and evangelicals will continue to do what they do, and our community can either get it's act together by bootstrapping a proper theological case and defense for Sikhi, or sit back and watch as religions (and non-religions) with more passion, vitality and competence dry up the stream of Sikhi's young generation by actively converting them away from their birth religion.
     
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  9. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    So aptly put ! We have so many enemies - the RSS, hindutva, the islamists , and now the mormons .

    I remember when I was like 10 , I used to attend a gursikh class in our local gurudwara . And the gursikh teacher told us "If christians can convert whole world just because their one guru got shaheed, then why should we not preach sikhi since our 2 gurus had shaheedi and countless sikhs".
    Guess what ? they don't even teach it in indian schools.
    The thing is we're so into politically correct behavior of "We are not a proselytizing religion" to appear cool .
    As contrary to what our guru sahibs did . You're so correct.
     
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  10. JourneyOflife

    JourneyOflife
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    I completely agree. We are so eager to suck up to our mainstream western and Indian masters that we would rather ignore the actions of our own gurus recorded in authentic history than dare do something which offends the sensitivities of society's liberal elite, whether that be left-wing politicians or mainstream media. I don't know where this lie of Sikhi being a non-proselytizing religion came from but it sure does suit the agenda of modern Sikhs and Sikh leaders, who would rather be the domesticated lap dogs of the "progressive west" and "incredible india" by flaunting how cool it is they don't spread their religion even if it means having to ignore the inconvenient truth that one of the main reasons Guru Arjan Dev Ji was killed by the Jahangir regime (recorded in the emperor's own autobiography) was that the Guru's influence was quickly growing in the land, Sikhi had been advancing rapidly for multiple generations and that not only Hindus, but even Muslims accepted the spiritual authority of the 5th Nanak. In other words, the Guru was executed in part because he had the courage to actively spread Sikhi under a regime which was explicitly intolerant of any challenge to Islam's position in society, and today we won't even tell people about our religion because we don't want to appear uncool.

    Let's not forget that Sikhi came out of almost nowhere, challenged, and out-lasted an empire arguably 1000 years in the making (with the roots being the advent of Islam in 7th century Arabia). Sikhs then turned around and defeated the king of a nation not even America or the Soviets could conquer (Afghanistan). The people power required for both these great feats didn't pop out of thin air. The Gurus didn't magically wish more Sikhs into the world- they, along with their families and GurSikh companions, dedicated their lives to actively spreading the message of Sikhi among the masses and never giving up on parchar. When will the Sikhs of today begin to do the same thing rather than crossing their fingers we will somehow just miraculously withstand the attacks to Sikhi from the large number of missionary religions in the world?
     
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  11. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    I know ! there's one veer - Jugraj Singh of basics of sikhi . he's doing an apt job, but not enough I guess
    I have even seen sikh websites saying that sikhi is not a prosyletizing religion *facepalm*
     
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  12. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    This is something I have often wondered about. I get asked about Sikhi often and I'm not shy about talking about it, but I do wait until someone shows interest. I often tell people (truthfully) that Sikhi has no quarrel with science. I talk about Sikhi with the same attitude I have when I talk about any subject that interests me. My aim is to educate, not convince.

    The most difficult question I get asked is "Why aren't you a Christian?" I know the many answers to that, but I can't answer without really dissing Christianity. I usually say, "I have valid reasons, but I can't tell you without committing blasphemy and saying things that would be hurtful to you, and I won't do that."
     
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  13. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    or if possible say on their face "Why aren't you a sikh?"
    I am not a christian because the bible does not go deep in spiritual matters and ofcourse the inquisitions and hatred for women, homosexuals, non-christians , etc...
     
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  14. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    I choose to either be honest or keep silence. My honest answer would be

    "Your God is an evil, vengeful being, more like a genocidal devil that hates its own creation than a loving Father. (Here I would pause and cite several biblical passages). Even if you could convince me that every word of the Bible was true, I still could not be a Christian because my most basic disagreement is with the Christian concept of God, which I cannot accept."

    "The theology of Christianity, the necessity of the substitute atonement, is total nonsense. God is God and can make whatever rules he chooses I can't fathom why he'd choose a method that defies logic and calls on me to believe things I know are not true. Why would he give us these wonderful big brains, if he didn't want us to use them?

    "Suppose for a moment I accept the vicarious atonement. Then also problematic is praising God for sacrificing his only son. Haven't we humans, especially we mothers and most especially we Sikhs been called upon to do this from the beginning? God being God, he knew the outcome, that his son would come back to life, so where's the big sacrifice?"

    I could go on and on, but this is enough to show why I don't feel comfortable discussing the subject with true believers. I have no desire to undermine their faith, or anger them, or upset them. I simply want them to leave me alone. Not arguing works best, IMNSHO.
     
    #13 Inderjeet Kaur, Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  15. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    it was the pictures of heaven that put me off a bit, not everyone's utopia is eating sandwiches in a field wearing sensible clothing.
     
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  16. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    And no sports. In fact no competition of any kind in the JW vision.
    "You Can Live Forever On Paradise Earth." Us plebes would be here forever, in perfect happiness. Only 144,000 actually make it to heaven.
     
  17. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    Update: I write this with a bit of shock. My second transit trip since the last, and a few stops close to the last one, I witness something again. This time a lady with a cart full of groceries (ie, not dressed up) sits beside a Punjabi student (there are many new Punjabi students in this area). I'm sitting a few rows behind but I can see down the middle of the aisle.
    I see this woman whip out the same Jesus pamphlet written in Punjabi and start talking to this unassuming student. I overhear "meeting" and "there will be lots of Punjabi speaking people".

    I'm not sure what's going on. I don't know if this is a transit specific plan, but these people are trying to convince (specifically) Punjabi people to attend these vague "meetings" and luring them with cultural incentives (ie, people of same community & language will be there). They get a listening ear by being vague and disguised, as most Canadians are usually helpful and polite.

    All I could do was clear my throat reaaally loud as I walked through the aisle to get off the bus.

    I am Shocked at the proliferation of these people and the plan they have set in place.
     
  18. Brother Onam

    Brother Onam United States
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    If you've been watching recent news you may have seen that Jehovah's Witnesses have begun going through camps of Syrian war refugees, handing out literature, converting people and promising to make their lives easier if they accept Jehovah. That's a pretty wretched way to proselytize: hitting people at their most desperate and vulnerable time. What a gang they are...
     
  19. JourneyOflife

    JourneyOflife
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    This is not shocking. Christianity has been heavily proselytized to the Punjabi community since the British were in India. In fact Christianity is growing rapidly in Punjab today- Christian missionaries are making tremendous headway towards converting large segments of the dalit Sikhs to their religion because the dalits are utterly neglected from the social institutions of their Sikh co-religionists. I'm sure all the JW's are doing is looking at the success of their Christian brethren in Punjab and attempting to replicate the same among Punjabis who have immigrated west. Given how much the Punjabi community has dropped the ball on Sikhi, who can really blame them? A lot of these students are likely easy to convert and when you earnestly believe your religion is the only way to avoid eternal damnation then this is exactly what you'd expect.

    My only question is, why not get a group of Sikhs in the specific locality together and form a group of our own? Talk to Punjabis in the community and get them involved with Sikhi again. The Christians are going to keep doing what they're doing, when will the Sikhs start doing what their Guru told them to do again?

    Edit: I should state for the record I don't find what the JW's are doing reprehensible at all. They're not breaking any law and from what you've described are quite open about their intentions- to talk about Jesus and their religion. They're not being underhanded or luring people into traps. The door-to-door think is annoying but trying to have a conversation with someone out in public isn't a bad thing in my eyes. There's nothing wrong with wanting to talk to people about your religion, our own Gurus did it with the Hindus and Muslims they lived among. The problem isn't the JW's, the problem is our own community which has become so apathetic towards teaching Sikhi to others (even our own kids!) that we find it incredulous when other groups of people are proactive about spreading their own faith. Just because we are committing intellectual suicide, doesn't mean everyone else should be expected to follow in our pathetic footsteps.
     
    #18 JourneyOflife, Sep 2, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  20. harmanpreet singh

    harmanpreet singh India
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    JW ladies speaking fluent panjabi.

     
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