☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Is 'Wah-e-Guru' The Name Of God?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Gyani Jarnail Singh" data-source="post: 115359" data-attributes="member: 189"><p>Aman1234 Ji,</p><p></p><p>Gurfateh.</p><p></p><p>Its NOT a case of which GURU is right or wrong...HOW can that be when they are ALL GURU NANAK JI SAHIB. THAT is why ALL of them used the Pen Name NANAK in their Gurbani. By themsleves they just gave NUMBERS as ID....1,2,3,4,5 and 9. ( 6,7,8) DIDNT WRITE ANY GURBANI. One of the reasons put forward is that Mehrban son of Prithiya was a fantastic Kathawachak of Gurbani and could write bani that looked almost like the Original. FAKE Bnai had already begun making its debut during the tiem of Guru AMARDASS JI..and thus He warns us about KACHI BANI in Anand Sahib..Kachi bnai..kehndeh kacheh, sundeh kacheh !! A sort of Health Warning on Fake Medicine...made by Fakes..Taken by Fakes..WILL LEAD TO DEATH - Physical Death in case of fake Medicine and SPIRITUAL DEATH in case of Kachi Fake Bani. BUT by the Time of MEHRBAN ( Incidentlaly proofs exist that THIS is the TIME the FAKE BHAI BALA JANAMSAHI was prepared by the Mehrban Group to DISCREDIT GURU NANAK LINE OF GURUS..and PROMOTE their OWN LINE as AUTHENTIC.) MEHRBAN and Gang were wriitng Bnai under the MEHLA Chhevan 6 ...etc. ) This is speculation as no one really knows the answer..but its probable that the Guru hargobind Ji and Guru har rai ji abstained from writing any Gurbani to defeat the chaalbaaz Mehrban Group. The SANGATS would then soon know that since Guru hargobind Ji is not writing any Gurbani..all that under Mahalla 6 must be FAKE. By the Time fo the Ninth Guru this fake propoganda had become well known..In fact its a historical fact that Sangats were indeed drawn to Kathas of Mehrban as he did katha so well.mesmerised large crowds...even taking away so much sangats that Bhai Buddha Ji, Bhai Gurdass Ji and other prominent Sikhs had to stand guard at the four directions to inform the sangats of the true Guru....this was perhaps the one way to defeat him..take away what he "copies"....</p><p>Anyway I digressed...</p><p></p><p>1. NOTE that GURU NANAK JI Gave us ORIGINAL...Preamble...EK OANGKAAR..SATNAAM..KARTA PURAKH...NIRBHAU, NIRVAIR, AKAL MOORAT, AJOONEE SAIBHANG, GURPARSAAD. This is the BASIC FOUNDATION of GURMATT. ALL of this Preamble is ORIGINAL and EXCLUSIVE to GURU NANAK...including the Figure 1 adjoining the Open ended Oorrah EK-OANGKAAR. This is not a WORD..its not a NUMBER..its a UNIQUE COMBINATION coined by our FOUNDER to set GURMATT APART from ALL that came Before and will come after.... Thus we find that GURU NANAK JI has already set the PARAMETRES of His NEW totally DIFFERENT GURMATT PHILOSOPHY..WAY OF LIFE that is to Follow.</p><p>2. Carefully chosen and TESTED GURUS followed...NONE tried to show his "independence''break away from the Original parametres..or show He is better..more right..etc etc. EACH followed the EXACT Parametres already established by the Founder. Each used the Same PREAMBLE in His Gurbani. IN Fact they also dropped their own Names and used ONLY NANAK. In their TITLE they used the NUMBER...2,3,4 following the NUMERAL ONE for Nanak Himself. What else could be clearer ???</p><p></p><p>3. The Following GURUS..then used the PARCHALAAT "names"..of the CREATOR..Raam, Gopal, Thakur..Narayan..Allah, Rahim...etc etc etc as these were parchalaat..meaning well established in the MINDS of the Spiritual Masses.. This is Normal...IF the GURU wants to address the HINDU MASSES.He of NECESSITY has to use the "names" they are FAMILIAR WITH....the Bhgats also use the Names they are familiar with...that is why when Guru Ji addresses the Islamic Masses He uses ALLAH.and RAHIM. Who will listen to Guru Ji using ALLAH at HARDWAAR ?? OR..THAKUR at MECCA ?? The "use" is merely a Formality..those like Bhagat Kabir Ji who has also understood the deeper substance and gone beyond the superficial..uses Allah and Raam INTERCHANGEABLY..thye even QUESTION that IF..the Creator is RAAM and HE is only looking after the EAST (Hindu lands)..then who looks after the WEST (Islamic lands)..Allah Raam ke Pind Paraan MERGES the "superficial Names"..deeper down its the SAME CREATOR... Its the MESSAGE that is important..not the "name" per se.... So its more a case of Prevailing CULTURAL and RELIGIOUS sensibilities that these names are used..the Masses get the MESSAGE is more important than what particular name is important/more/less/ etc. This is an exercise in <strong>FUTILITY</strong>.</p><p>4.</p><p>Each Guru beginning with Guru Nanak Ji gave the "Naam" Gurmantar as GURU-DEEKHYA to each Disciple.. Those among the Disciples who were OUTSTANDING and emerged tried and true..were given the Ultimate..the GURGADEE...example Bhai Lehnna Ji...became Guru Angad Ji. But its a FACT beyond Dispute that EACH disciple ahd to receive GURU DEEKHYA from the GURU personally before he/she/ could become a SIKH. There is No record of any so called SIKH..who sitting at home all by himself decided that..from today I am Sikh of this or that GURU. THIS Cannot happen. The Disciple has to approach the GURU....MATHA TEK..and ask the Guru to accept him/her as His disciple...</p><p></p><p>5. With Guru Gobind Singh Ji..the HUMAN LINE of DEHDHAREE GURUSHIP came to an END. THUS GUru Gobind Singh Ji came up with the Next Best way of GURU DEEKHYA.....becasue Gurgadee was to be passed to the Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji SGGS...the GURU DEEKHYA part of the equation was thus invested in the PANJ. In order to ESTABLISH the AUTHORITY of the PANJ to be BEYOND FUTURE DISPUTES...Guru Gobind RAI Himself Bowed before the PANJ. begged Guru deekhya PAHUL/GURMANTAR from them on Bended Knees and CHANGED His name to GURU GOBIND <strong>SINGH</strong>. Thus He OBLITERATED the Line between Guru and Chela ESTABLISHING the PANJ as the Next Instiutution that will henceforth take over the GURU DEEKHYA part REQUIRED/ of a SIKH.</p><p>THIS is why the PANJ are vested with the GURU DEEKHYA AUTHORITY...but WITHIN the AGEIS....TABIAH of the SGGS. 'INDEPENDENT"... of the SGGS the Panj have no power.</p><p></p><p>6. Now the Vital and important part. The Naam/Guru deekhya that was given personally by each Guru...has now been vested in the PANJ. This GURU-DEEKHYA is the GURMANTAR that the PANJ give to EACH abhilakhee of Khandey batte dee PAHUL. ONLY the PANJ can Give this....and GURU GOBIND SINGH JI ESTABLISHED this Fact in 1699 when He inspite of being defacto "GURU"..went down on Bended KNee to ask the Panj for the Pahul/Gurmantar and change of name. THUS...NO ONE can lay claim to being a "disciple" of SGGS ONLY all by himslef/herself...He/she has of necessity to appear BEFORE the PANJ to be ACCEPTED as a SIKH...be given the Guru-deekhya/GURMANTAR. From 1699, this GURMANTAR has been WAHEGURU. GURU GOBIND SINGH JI in His GURU Capacity Gave us this..and as SIKHS we have to accept it.period. Anyone going "back" to examples used by Guru Nanak Ji or Guru Arjun Ji sahib and insisting that he/she is a "sikh" and only wants to say har har etc is only FOOLING himself/herself...that Har har is "better'..and so on are all self delusional arguments........No one can stop you..its personal choice...and to chose an "argument" put forward by one of my students..why would someone who has been awarded a PHd Degree by a University..be keeping that in a shoe case and flaunting his Kindergarten "certificate"....will he get a "job" with his kindergarten cert or his PHd Degree ?? No one can Stop the kiddie cert carrier..but people will laugh at his "wisdom"...:welcome:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gyani Jarnail Singh, post: 115359, member: 189"] Aman1234 Ji, Gurfateh. Its NOT a case of which GURU is right or wrong...HOW can that be when they are ALL GURU NANAK JI SAHIB. THAT is why ALL of them used the Pen Name NANAK in their Gurbani. By themsleves they just gave NUMBERS as ID....1,2,3,4,5 and 9. ( 6,7,8) DIDNT WRITE ANY GURBANI. One of the reasons put forward is that Mehrban son of Prithiya was a fantastic Kathawachak of Gurbani and could write bani that looked almost like the Original. FAKE Bnai had already begun making its debut during the tiem of Guru AMARDASS JI..and thus He warns us about KACHI BANI in Anand Sahib..Kachi bnai..kehndeh kacheh, sundeh kacheh !! A sort of Health Warning on Fake Medicine...made by Fakes..Taken by Fakes..WILL LEAD TO DEATH - Physical Death in case of fake Medicine and SPIRITUAL DEATH in case of Kachi Fake Bani. BUT by the Time of MEHRBAN ( Incidentlaly proofs exist that THIS is the TIME the FAKE BHAI BALA JANAMSAHI was prepared by the Mehrban Group to DISCREDIT GURU NANAK LINE OF GURUS..and PROMOTE their OWN LINE as AUTHENTIC.) MEHRBAN and Gang were wriitng Bnai under the MEHLA Chhevan 6 ...etc. ) This is speculation as no one really knows the answer..but its probable that the Guru hargobind Ji and Guru har rai ji abstained from writing any Gurbani to defeat the chaalbaaz Mehrban Group. The SANGATS would then soon know that since Guru hargobind Ji is not writing any Gurbani..all that under Mahalla 6 must be FAKE. By the Time fo the Ninth Guru this fake propoganda had become well known..In fact its a historical fact that Sangats were indeed drawn to Kathas of Mehrban as he did katha so well.mesmerised large crowds...even taking away so much sangats that Bhai Buddha Ji, Bhai Gurdass Ji and other prominent Sikhs had to stand guard at the four directions to inform the sangats of the true Guru....this was perhaps the one way to defeat him..take away what he "copies".... Anyway I digressed... 1. NOTE that GURU NANAK JI Gave us ORIGINAL...Preamble...EK OANGKAAR..SATNAAM..KARTA PURAKH...NIRBHAU, NIRVAIR, AKAL MOORAT, AJOONEE SAIBHANG, GURPARSAAD. This is the BASIC FOUNDATION of GURMATT. ALL of this Preamble is ORIGINAL and EXCLUSIVE to GURU NANAK...including the Figure 1 adjoining the Open ended Oorrah EK-OANGKAAR. This is not a WORD..its not a NUMBER..its a UNIQUE COMBINATION coined by our FOUNDER to set GURMATT APART from ALL that came Before and will come after.... Thus we find that GURU NANAK JI has already set the PARAMETRES of His NEW totally DIFFERENT GURMATT PHILOSOPHY..WAY OF LIFE that is to Follow. 2. Carefully chosen and TESTED GURUS followed...NONE tried to show his "independence''break away from the Original parametres..or show He is better..more right..etc etc. EACH followed the EXACT Parametres already established by the Founder. Each used the Same PREAMBLE in His Gurbani. IN Fact they also dropped their own Names and used ONLY NANAK. In their TITLE they used the NUMBER...2,3,4 following the NUMERAL ONE for Nanak Himself. What else could be clearer ??? 3. The Following GURUS..then used the PARCHALAAT "names"..of the CREATOR..Raam, Gopal, Thakur..Narayan..Allah, Rahim...etc etc etc as these were parchalaat..meaning well established in the MINDS of the Spiritual Masses.. This is Normal...IF the GURU wants to address the HINDU MASSES.He of NECESSITY has to use the "names" they are FAMILIAR WITH....the Bhgats also use the Names they are familiar with...that is why when Guru Ji addresses the Islamic Masses He uses ALLAH.and RAHIM. Who will listen to Guru Ji using ALLAH at HARDWAAR ?? OR..THAKUR at MECCA ?? The "use" is merely a Formality..those like Bhagat Kabir Ji who has also understood the deeper substance and gone beyond the superficial..uses Allah and Raam INTERCHANGEABLY..thye even QUESTION that IF..the Creator is RAAM and HE is only looking after the EAST (Hindu lands)..then who looks after the WEST (Islamic lands)..Allah Raam ke Pind Paraan MERGES the "superficial Names"..deeper down its the SAME CREATOR... Its the MESSAGE that is important..not the "name" per se.... So its more a case of Prevailing CULTURAL and RELIGIOUS sensibilities that these names are used..the Masses get the MESSAGE is more important than what particular name is important/more/less/ etc. This is an exercise in [B]FUTILITY[/B]. 4. Each Guru beginning with Guru Nanak Ji gave the "Naam" Gurmantar as GURU-DEEKHYA to each Disciple.. Those among the Disciples who were OUTSTANDING and emerged tried and true..were given the Ultimate..the GURGADEE...example Bhai Lehnna Ji...became Guru Angad Ji. But its a FACT beyond Dispute that EACH disciple ahd to receive GURU DEEKHYA from the GURU personally before he/she/ could become a SIKH. There is No record of any so called SIKH..who sitting at home all by himself decided that..from today I am Sikh of this or that GURU. THIS Cannot happen. The Disciple has to approach the GURU....MATHA TEK..and ask the Guru to accept him/her as His disciple... 5. With Guru Gobind Singh Ji..the HUMAN LINE of DEHDHAREE GURUSHIP came to an END. THUS GUru Gobind Singh Ji came up with the Next Best way of GURU DEEKHYA.....becasue Gurgadee was to be passed to the Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji SGGS...the GURU DEEKHYA part of the equation was thus invested in the PANJ. In order to ESTABLISH the AUTHORITY of the PANJ to be BEYOND FUTURE DISPUTES...Guru Gobind RAI Himself Bowed before the PANJ. begged Guru deekhya PAHUL/GURMANTAR from them on Bended Knees and CHANGED His name to GURU GOBIND [B]SINGH[/B]. Thus He OBLITERATED the Line between Guru and Chela ESTABLISHING the PANJ as the Next Instiutution that will henceforth take over the GURU DEEKHYA part REQUIRED/ of a SIKH. THIS is why the PANJ are vested with the GURU DEEKHYA AUTHORITY...but WITHIN the AGEIS....TABIAH of the SGGS. 'INDEPENDENT"... of the SGGS the Panj have no power. 6. Now the Vital and important part. The Naam/Guru deekhya that was given personally by each Guru...has now been vested in the PANJ. This GURU-DEEKHYA is the GURMANTAR that the PANJ give to EACH abhilakhee of Khandey batte dee PAHUL. ONLY the PANJ can Give this....and GURU GOBIND SINGH JI ESTABLISHED this Fact in 1699 when He inspite of being defacto "GURU"..went down on Bended KNee to ask the Panj for the Pahul/Gurmantar and change of name. THUS...NO ONE can lay claim to being a "disciple" of SGGS ONLY all by himslef/herself...He/she has of necessity to appear BEFORE the PANJ to be ACCEPTED as a SIKH...be given the Guru-deekhya/GURMANTAR. From 1699, this GURMANTAR has been WAHEGURU. GURU GOBIND SINGH JI in His GURU Capacity Gave us this..and as SIKHS we have to accept it.period. Anyone going "back" to examples used by Guru Nanak Ji or Guru Arjun Ji sahib and insisting that he/she is a "sikh" and only wants to say har har etc is only FOOLING himself/herself...that Har har is "better'..and so on are all self delusional arguments........No one can stop you..its personal choice...and to chose an "argument" put forward by one of my students..why would someone who has been awarded a PHd Degree by a University..be keeping that in a shoe case and flaunting his Kindergarten "certificate"....will he get a "job" with his kindergarten cert or his PHd Degree ?? No one can Stop the kiddie cert carrier..but people will laugh at his "wisdom"...:welcome: [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Is 'Wah-e-Guru' The Name Of God?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top