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Is 'Wah-e-Guru' the Name of God?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by akalpurkh, Nov 12, 2009.

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  1. akalpurkh

    akalpurkh
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    The term ‘wah’ is a typical Urdu and often-used form of exclamation of appreciation which is not dissimilar to ‘wow’ in English. ‘Wah-e-Guru’ is an expression that shows appreciation or praise for the guru and is comparable to ‘Jai Gurudev.’

    The term Wah-e-Guru does not appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS). I repeat, IT DOES NOT OCCUR IN THE GRANTH SAHIB EVEN ONCE!! Its current use as a generic name for the Supreme Lord is a recent phenomenon and has no precedence in the SGGS.

    ‘So what!’ you may say. We have been using it for many years now and we are happy; it seems to work for us. That’s all that matters.

    Okay, but that’s a very sentimental answer and before you make up your mind, please read this article to the end.

    The SGGS lays great stress on the Name. Indeed, it goes on and on about the Name. Why? The reason is as such. According to the SGGS it is by associating with the Supreme Lord that one can gain liberation. By the way, that is why you pray. You are not I hope under the false illusion that you are praying for food on the table and a Mercedes in the car park. No, you are praying to attain liberation from the birth death cycle. Having established that, your next question will be, ‘how does one go about attaining liberation.’

    The answer to that is the Name. The ‘Name’ is the ticket to heaven. Why so? Because, the Names of the Supreme Lord are considered non-different from the Supreme Lord himself. That means you can associate with the Lord by taking his Name, by chanting it, singing it, hearing it, and so on. This process will gradually purify you and make you eligible for liberation. This is why one chants the Names of the Lord. In short, let it be understood that only the Supreme Lord is the 'scouring or cleansing' agent. Since He is not around to personally associate with, the next best thing is, associate with Him by chanting and hearing His Name. This is the ‘spiritual science’ that is repeated endlessly in the GS.

    Incidentally, 'repentance' as the Christians understand it, does not cleanse either. Saying or often repeating, ‘I am sorry for my sins’ does not lessen the burden of sins. Indeed, you can spend the whole day in church saying 'I am sorry' till you are blue in the face, but at the end of the day, you will still find all your sins waiting patiently for you by the blueberry bush near the cemetery.

    Having established the science behind the often repeated instruction of taking the ‘Naam’ in the SGGS, let us examine the term Wah-e-Guru. Is it a bona fide name? Answer. No. Does not occur in the SGGS? No, not even once. Does it gain you liberation? No. Does it gain you anything? No.

    In short, Wah-e-Guru, while it may increase ones attachment to the guru, it cannot be said to have the spiritual cleansing potency of that a real Name of the Supreme such a 'Hari' is said to have. Chanting ‘Wah-e-Guru’ is not a bona fide means of cleansing and gains very little, and no committee's dictates or extensive use of this 'chant' by the populace will make it bona fide. It cannot be used instead of the bona fide Names of the Supreme Lord which Guru Nanak so lovingly uses.

    On the other hand, chanting the names of the Lord such as ‘Hari,’ ‘Ram,’ ‘Gopal’, ‘Govind’, ‘Murari’, ‘Jagdeesh’, ‘Mohan’ etc, all of which are repeatedly mentioned in the SGGS almost on every page and are indeed recommended by Guru Nanak, will gain you an eternity of happiness in the spiritual realm referred to as 'Baikunth' or spiritual world. It is to be understood to be a very real place that is said to exist outside the material cosmic manifestation.

    To conclude, while the SGGS repeatedly emphasizes chanting the Name of the Lord, and is indeed the only sacred literature that makes such a song and dance about it, its modern-day followers, that is us, have rendered this sublime instruction entirely useless by stupidly substituting the name with an arbitrary term, one that has absolutely no spiritual potency what so ever.
    Wah-e-Guru is not the name of the Supreme Lord.

    If you want to make spiritual progress and go back to Baikunth, please chant the real names of the Supreme Lord such as ‘Hari,’ ‘Ram,’ ‘Gopal’, ‘Govind’, ‘Murari’, ‘Jagdeesh’, ‘Mohan’ or any other bona fide name mentioned in the SGGS instead of ‘Wah-e-Guru.’

    Sat Sri Akal
     
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  3. Lee

    Lee
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    Ummm I'm not so sure. I mean WaheGuru is certianly not a name, and please do let me know if I have this wrong, but I understand it to translate into English as wondeours enlightener.

    So yes Waheguru is not Gods name. So what is? When I read 'Ik onkar Sat naam'

    Literaly: 1 God, true name.

    What do I get from it?

    Well 1 God is easy, 1 God, God is 1, God is all.

    What about true name?

    Does it mean that Gods name is simply 'true', or perhaps even 'truth'?

    No that is not what I get, although this word truth does hit a chord. When we name something we define it, so Sat Naam. Is telling me that this thing that we name God, or Ram, or Hari, or even YHVH, Or Odinn, Or Allah , indeed any other name for God that you have ever heard is the only absolute truth.

    If God is all and the only absolute truth then we can call God anything, as there is not one single word that is not God, there is not one single part of teh creation that is not God.

    Akal Purkh Ji, we can even use your own name and mean God. It is not the words we use it is the intent that is important.
     
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  4. akalpurkh

    akalpurkh
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    You say: [I mean WaheGuru is certainly not a name, and please do let me know if I have this wrong, but I understand it to translate into English as wondeours enlightener.]


    Wah-e-guru does not translate to 'wondrous enlightener.' Its Urdu for 'Wow, what a guru.' I can assure you of that. Now, I have heard some pretty convoluted explanations too myself, wherein the ' w' stands for this 'ah' stands for that, and so on. But thats all imagination on magic mushrooms or something.


    You say: [Akal Purkh Ji, we can even use your own name and mean God. It is not the words we use it is the intent that is important.]

    'Intent' is what we bring to the table, I agree and therefore, it might appear to be the primary moving factor. Indeed, I can well hear a Christian priest solemnly saying, 'Be sincere my son, show intent, and God will hear your prayers.'

    If intent were the operative word, then it shouldn't matter if it were good intent or bad. Right? In which case, if Lee intent to rob that bank. Would that work in your corner of the world? My lord, he showed great intent. We must not imprison him!

    That is not how it works in the spiritual realm. In the spiritual realm, only the Supreme Lord works. And, association with the Supreme, in this case with His Holy name alone will cleanse your heart. This is what the SGGB states or for that matter the Vedic scriptures. The naam is the operative word. Which is why SGGB sings about it endlessly on almost every page.

    The Supreme Lord is indeed the leading and only brand of scouring agent that will cleanse your blackened heart.

    Intent, for that matter, is probably what got you into trouble in the first place! Intent is cheap my friend.

    SSA
     
  5. Lee

    Lee
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    Ahh my friend you have given us here what we call a false dichotomy I'm afraid.

    Please understand the meaning of my last post. I said in essance as God is all it matter not what name you call God by, it is your intent. If I performed Simran using Allah, or Ram, or Thor, or Waheguru, it does not matter if my intent is to focus on the One God.

    So you see I mean a very specific kind of intent.

    Consider this though. In your first post you mention as a proper name fof God 'Gopal'. Now please correct me if I am wrong but that word looks very much to me the Hindu version of Gurpal.

    Gurpal means beloved of Guru.

    Why would the tile 'Beloved of Guru' be any fitter name for God than 'wounderous enlightener'?

    Neiter are names but titles. Also consider this. You wish us to use Gods real name or names instead of the title Waheguru, what are God's real names, and how do you know this?
     
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  6. Lee

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    This has left me dispionted my freind. Why do you say I have a black heart? Why am I 'in trouble'?

    let us take this word. Waheguru.

    Now I have been told that Wahe means wonderous, this may of course be wrong. However I know without any doubt, as in, it is some knowledge that I posesse that Guru, is in fact two Sanskrit words.

    Gu=Darkness Ru=Light.

    So the connation of the word Guru, is somebody that takes you from the darkness into the light, a teacher, or an enlightener.

    However all of that aside, I'm a little puzzled by your tone. Do you alsways set upon those who disgaree with you in such a manor?
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    GURU PIYARIO JIOS...

    You seem so SURE about the claim you made ..and You made it in CAPITAL LETTERS....to make it cast in Stainless Steel/Titanium !!!
    BUT YOU ARE WRONG....DEAD WRONG....because you havent read the SGGS at all or you WONT Have MISSED the WAHEGURU used so Enchantingly and MULTIPLE TIMES in SGGS.
    I Will NOT spoon feed you with the Page Numbers...simply becasue you made the Preposterous claim as if you know the SGGS like the back of your hand...(Not even a SINGLE TIME ??? the joke is on YOU guru piayario...becasue WAHEGURU is in SGGS..not once..not twice..not three times..not four times..BUT....Find OUT just How many times...by actually READING the SGGS.

    Apologies in advance if sentiments get hurt...but then we must make preposterous claims if ??????

    Jarnail Singh:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
     
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  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    WAHE-GURU is PRAISE of GOD/GURU/SATGURU/AKAL PURAKH/The Creator..Thus its an ADJECTIVE..WONDROUS....CREATOR....
     
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  9. akalpurkh

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    You say: [However I know without any doubt, as in, it is some knowledge that I posesse that Guru, is in fact two Sanskrit words. Gu=Darkness Ru=Light. So the connation of the word Guru, is somebody that takes you from the darkness into the light, a teacher, or an enlightener.]

    The etymological claims that 'gu' means darkness and 'ru' means light therefore 'guru' literally means 'the one who brings you from darkness to light' is an idea popularized by frauds and is complete nonsense.

    Guru is an adjective in Sanskrit meaning 'heavy'. So, the guru means Grave or 'heavy' as in heavy with knowledge, heavy with responsibility, heavy with love of the Supreme.

    Seriously, which dictionary do you use?
     
  10. akalpurkh

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    Gyaniji your Gyan is suspect. Wah-e-Guru simply means 'Wow, what a guru!" Besides, you seem to think that what I am saying is not in the SGGS. Read it again. What I am saying here is there on every page. Yes, and I will repeat it in capitals. ON EVERY PAGE.

    If there exists an obscure mention of Wah-e-Guru in the SGGS, be sure its not one of those fancy American-Sikh translations. Even if it occurs in the original Gurbani, I am sure it does not have the exalted mean it now carries. Wah-e-Guru is not the name of the Supreme. And as such, it has absolutely no spiritual cleansing properties as the real Naam of the Supreme carries.

    Arguing with me on this issue is pointless, for this is not my statement. This is what the good book says.
     
  11. Lee

    Lee
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    Again my friend I feel this negativeity towards me in your words, can I ask why?

    It seems when I consult an online Sanskrit dictionary you are almost correct.

    GuruH does indeed apear to mean heavy or weighty. Yet it reports Guru as teacher.

    However that is all an aside, you have not yet addressed all of the other pionts I have put to you, do you intend to do so?
     
  12. Admin Singh

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    Dear All, Let us focus on the topic in hand and avoid making personal comments... this is the only way of evolving... Thanks in advance. :)
     
  13. akalpurkh

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    No. I really don't have the time to spoon feed you my friend. Besides, I believe I have answered all your main points. If there is any misc. bit that I have left out and you dying to have me blow it right out of the water, do ask. I'll be happy to oblige. SSA
     
  14. Lee

    Lee
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    No?

    Heh okay then please answer the following.

    Whatever Waheguru means why should we not use it when we can use (according to you) Gopal? What does Gopal mean?

    What do you understand the word 'Naam' to mean?

    Is it okay do you think to call God Allah? Why, why not?

    Can you list some acceptable names of God and their meanings?

    How do you know all of what you say is true?
     
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  15. spnadmin

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  16. Tejwant Singh

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    Ik Ong Kaar has many names yet none. If one names the Infinite, then the Infinite becomes finite.

    Vaheguru is a salutation. It means, "I am in awe with whoever created my surroundings- the nature".

    There is no reverse osmosis nor any filtration system in SGGS, our ONLY GURU, which tells us to chant like a parrot to " purify" oneself, no matter what name one screams, chant, parrot Ik Ong Kaar with.

    The only way which SGGS, our ONLY GURU teaches us is to study Gurbani and by doing so, then only we can practice it in our real lives, so that we can breed goodness within which we should share with others.

    Goodness has no particular name, nor any hue,creed or faith.

    So, chanting like a parrot with whatever name one chooses from many given in SGGS can only make one a good parrot, not a Gursikh.

    It is just irrelevant rhetoric laced with me-ism. Nothing more.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  17. spnadmin

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    My own memory of the facts fails me sometimes. But here are some additional facts. Tejwant ji has dealt well with the giaan IMHO


    1. Page1402 Line 11 Raag Sava-yay (praise of Guru Ram Das: Ga-yand

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
    vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jeeo ||
    Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o.

    2. Page1402 Line 14 Raag Sava-yay (praise of Guru Ram Das: Ga-yand

    ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥੬॥
    sath saach sree nivaas aadh purakh sadhaa thuhee vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jeeo ||1||6||
    You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||1||6||

    3. Page1402 Line 18 Raag Sava-yay (praise of Guru Ram Das: Ga-yand

    ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥੭॥
    sath saach sree nivaas aadh purakh sadhaa thuhee vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jeeo ||2||7||
    You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||2||7||

    4. Page1403 Line 2 Raag Sava-yay (praise of Guru Ram Das: Ga-yand

    ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥੮॥
    sath saach sree nivaas aadh purakh sadhaa thuhee vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jeeo ||3||8||
    You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||3||8||

    5. Page1403 Line 18 Raag Sava-yay (praise of Guru Ram Das: Ga-yand

    ਕੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਡ ਮੇਲੁ ਤਮਾਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਭ ਰਚਨਾ ॥
    keeaa khael badd mael thamaasaa vaahiguroo thaeree sabh rachanaa ||
    You have formed and created this play, this great game. O Waahay Guru, this is all You, forever.
     
  18. spnadmin

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    (quoted material)

    The term Wah-e-Guru does not appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS). I repeat, IT DOES NOT OCCUR IN THE GRANTH SAHIB EVEN ONCE!! Its current use as a generic name for the Supreme Lord is a recent phenomenon and has no precedence in the SGGS.

    My analysis :)
    These problems arise when we are misguided by transliterations. The English language has many alternate ways to make the same sound, unlike Gurmukhi which has far fewer. So Wah e Guru will not necessarily seem to be in Gurbani, but in fact is using an alternate phonetic strategy. Whether one is successful in one's search depends on the transliteration system being employed. There are around 3 that are standard (Professor Thind has authored moe than one). Search engines do not use a single transliteration scheme. So linguistic confusion can be misleading.

    But there you have it! This by the way is an old discussion topic and tends to return to the forum like the 7-year locust. The Sanskrit of this is another complicated issue. Let's try not to get wound up. Tejwant given us some important insights.
     
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  19. akalpurkh

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    Oh yeah right, I forgot your 'gopal' means 'gurupal' bit or word jugglery. 'Gopal' means one who 'paals' 'go.' 'Paal' means to 'take care.' 'Go' means 'cow,' or 'mother earth.' So, 'Gopal' would mean... 'one who takes care of cows or one who takes care of the world.' These are the standard Sanskrit meanings.

    'Naam' means holy name of the Supreme. Therefore, it may be understood to be a specific name, and not a generic one or an imagined one or a concocted one. Naam is given great stress in the SGGS. It is unfortunate that even after so much stress is laid on this one fact, we have gone and manufactured one in foundries of Ludhiana.
     
  20. akalpurkh

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    All the verses that you have quoted are couplets that have this following structure. The first line says somehting about the Supreme Lord, and the second is more like a chorus, that spontaneously bursts into praising the Guru who has delivered the wisdom given in the first line. This is the standard practice.

    Take one of you quotes for instance:

    You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being.
    Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o! ​
    ||2||7||

    The first line praises the Supreme Lord by stating,'You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being!'

    In the second, you praise the Guru who delivered this wisdom by singing, 'Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o!'

    Its not that complicated really, unless that is you want to complicate it intentionally.
     
  21. akalpurkh

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    All the verses that you have quoted are couplets that have this following structure. The first line says something about the Supreme Lord, and the second is more like a chorus, that spontaneously bursts into praising the Guru who has delivered the wisdom given in the first line. This is the standard practice.

    Take one of you quotes for instance:

    You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being.
    Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o! ​
    ||2||7||

    The first line praises the Supreme Lord by stating,'You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being!'

    In the second, you praise the Guru who delivered this wisdom by singing, 'Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o!'

    Its not that complicated really, unless that is you want to complicate it intentionally. The Wah-e-Guru mentioned here is certainly not in reference to the Supreme and it certainly cannot be mistaken as the name of the Supreme.
     

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