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Is 'Wah-e-Guru' The Name Of God?
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<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 115307" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>akaalpurakh ji</p><p></p><p>Yes -- I have a theory about where you are headed. And as I have said previously -- we have been down that road before. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>I would like to return to 3 things you have said where common sense are not aligned with the facts. </p><p><strong><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````</span></strong></p><p>1. You say that <u><strong><span style="color: Red">The term Wah-e-Guru does not appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS). I repeat, IT DOES NOT OCCUR IN THE GRANTH SAHIB EVEN ONCE!! Its current use as a generic name for the Supreme Lord is a recent phenomenon and has no precedence in the SGGS. </span></strong></u><span style="color: Black">(quoted material)</span></p><p></p><p>I next pointed out to you that both Bhagat Gayanand and Bhai Gurdas have used the term. In the transliterated version we can see it is in just this one example (There are several others in this thread):</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥</span></p><p> <span style="color: red"><span style="color: red">vaahiguroo</span></span> <span style="color: red"><span style="color: red">vaahiguroo</span></span> <span style="color: red"><span style="color: red">vaahiguroo</span></span> <span style="color: DarkGreen">vaahi jeeo ||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"> Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o.</span></p><p></p><p>You then reply that you have no need of transliterations. <span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">You say: "This is not correct; most of us here can read SGGS in Gurbani. At any rate, I see no point in this argument, for I see no ambiguity with regards to the name in the SGGS. There are countless instances in the SGGS wherein the actual names of the Supreme Lord, such as 'Gopal, Ram, Hari, Mohan, Thakur (generic but specifically referring to Krishna)' etc., are mentioned. I really don't need a Thind 'who has authored more than one book' to sort this out for me. Nor, indeed should you." (quoted material)</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="color: Black">Now please tell me what this says! In Gurmukhi! Since you don't need transliterations! </span></span><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ </span></span></strong><span style="color: DarkGreen"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"><strong>```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"><strong></strong> <span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="color: Black">2. My next concern is based in amazement. Let's go back to your statement as follows: </span></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span><span style="color: DarkGreen">"I really don't need a Thind 'who has authored more than one book' to sort this out for me. Nor, indeed should you.</span>"</p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="color: Black">In Sikhi - seva is a pre-eminent obligation. And in transliterating the words of the Gurus, Professor Thind is a sevadhar both to the panth and to </span></span><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ </span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: Black"><span style="font-size: 9px">He is making the Shabad Guru accessible to a host of Punjabi speakers who cannot read Gurmukhi but can connect their phonetic understanding to the Gurus' meaning. Professor Thind devised fonts, transliterations, shabads for printing, and we reap the fruit of his deep linguistic knowledge. He never took a cent for his work. His wife and children continue his legacy.</span></span></span></span><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"> </span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"><span style="color: DarkGreen">````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````</span></span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span>3. Guru and Gopal: </span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black">W</span></span></span></strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"><strong>hat is there to say about that? </strong></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black">Sanskrit more than even Punjabi is a language in which meaning is contextualized. So the meaning of any word depends on the context of use. Three major contexts: poetic, liturgical, ordinary language. That is why the major dictionaries give so many meanings, and that is why translators rely on them for contextual applications. This is basic stuff.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"><strong>3.a </strong></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black">The translation of <em>Guru</em> from the Monier Williams Dictionary. Which choice makes sense? In a liturgical or a poetic context? The one in bold red font...a spiritual parent or preceptor...makes more sense than heavy in the stomach, or "heavy" as you claim when you analyze the word "guru."</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"><strong>Guru </strong></span></span></span></span></span><strong>गुरु</strong></p><p><strong></strong>(H1) <span style="color: blue">गुरु</span>[SIZE=-1] [p= [URL="http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/monier/serveimg.pl?file=/scans/MWScan/MWScanjpg/mw0359-gupta.jpg"]359[/URL],2][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [L=65987][/SIZE] <em>mf</em>(<span style="color: blue">वी</span>)<em><span style="color: #004400">n.</span></em> ([SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #006600">cf.</span>[/SIZE] <span style="color: blue">गिर्/इ</span> ; [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #006600">comp.</span>[/SIZE]<span style="color: blue">ग्/अरीयस्</span> , once <span style="color: red">°</span><span style="color: blue">यस्-तर</span> , <span style="color: blue">गुरु-तर</span> , superl. <span style="color: blue">गरिष्ठ</span> , <span style="color: blue">गुरुतम</span> <span style="color: purple">»</span> [SIZE=-1]ss.vv.[/SIZE]) heavy , weighty (opposed to <span style="color: blue">लघ्/उ</span>) [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_RV_%22%29" target="_blank"> RV. </a> i , 39 , 3 and iv , 5 , 6</span>[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_AV_%22%29" target="_blank"> AV. </a></span>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] ([SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #006600">g.</span>[/SIZE]<span style="color: blue">शौण्डा</span><span style="color: red">*</span><span style="color: blue">दि</span> [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Gan2ar_%22%29" target="_blank"> Gan2ar. </a> 101</span>[/SIZE]) [SIZE=-1] [L=65988][/SIZE] heavy in the stomach (food) , difficult to digest [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_MBh_%22%29" target="_blank"> MBh. </a> i , 3334</span>[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Sus3r_%22%29" target="_blank"> Sus3r. </a></span>[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65989][/SIZE] great , large , extended , long [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"> Ya1jn5. ??</span>[/SIZE] (<span style="color: purple">»</span> <span style="color: blue">-क्रतु</span>) [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Bhartr2_%22%29" target="_blank"> Bhartr2. </a></span>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65990][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Pra1t_%22%29" target="_blank"> Pra1t. </a></span>[/SIZE] (a vowel long both by nature and by position is called <span style="color: blue">गरीयस्</span> [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_RPra1t_%22%29" target="_blank"> RPra1t. </a> xviii , 20</span>[/SIZE]) [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Pa1n2_%22%29" target="_blank"> Pa1n2. </a> 1-4 , 11 and 12</span>[/SIZE] (in prosody) long by nature or position (a vowel) [SIZE=-1] [L=65991][/SIZE] high in degree , vehement , violent , excessive , difficult , hard [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_RV_%22%29" target="_blank"> RV. </a></span>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_MBh_%22%29" target="_blank"> MBh. </a></span>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65992][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Megh_%22%29" target="_blank"> Megh. </a> 80</span>[/SIZE] grievous [SIZE=-1] [L=65993][/SIZE] important , serious , momentous [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_MBh_%22%29" target="_blank"> MBh. </a></span>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65994][/SIZE] valuable , highly prized [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"> Ya1jn5. ?? ii , 30</span>[/SIZE]<span style="color: blue">गुरु</span> <span style="color: purple">=</span> <span style="color: blue">गरीयस्</span>) [SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] ( [SIZE=-1] [L=65995][/SIZE] haughty , proud (speech) [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Pan5cat_%22%29" target="_blank"> Pan5cat. </a></span>[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65996][/SIZE] venerable , respectable (H1B) <span style="color: blue">गुरु</span>[SIZE=-1] [L=65997][/SIZE] <em><span style="color: #004400">m.</span></em> any venerable or respectable person (father , mother , or any relative older than one's self) [SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Gobh_%22%29" target="_blank"> Gobh. </a></span>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_S3a1n3khGr2_%22%29" target="_blank"> S3a1n3khGr2. </a></span>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]<span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Mn_%22%29" target="_blank"> Mn. </a></span>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] (H1B<strong>)<span style="color: DarkRed">गुरु</span>[SIZE=-1]<span style="color: DarkRed"> [L=65998]</span>[/SIZE]<span style="color: DarkRed"> <em>m.</em> a spiritual parent or preceptor (from whom a youth receives the initiatory </span><span style="color: DarkRed">मन्त्र or prayer , who instructs him in the </span><span style="color: DarkRed">शास्त्रs and conducts the necessary ceremonies up to that of investiture which is performed by the </span><span style="color: DarkRed">आचार्य</span></strong> <span style="color: DarkRed"><strong>[SIZE=-1]Ya1jn5. ?? i ,[/SIZE]</strong></span><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"> 34</span>) </span><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_RPra1t_%22%29" target="_blank"> <span style="font-family: 'Arial'">RPra1t. </span></a></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_A1s3vGr2_%22%29" target="_blank"> A1s3vGr2. </a></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Pa1rGr2_%22%29" target="_blank"> Pa1rGr2. </a></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Mn_%22%29" target="_blank"> Mn. </a></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> &c (H1B) </span></span> <span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: blue">गुरु</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> [L=65999] <em><span style="color: #004400">m.</span></em> the chief of (</span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #006600">gen.</span> or in </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #006600">comp.</span>) </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Ca1n2_%22%29" target="_blank"> Ca1n2. </a></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Ragh_%22%29" target="_blank"> Ragh. </a> ii , 68</span> (H1B) </span></span> <span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: blue">गुरु</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> [L=66000] <em><span style="color: #004400">m.</span></em> (with </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: teal">शाक्त</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px">s) author of a </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: teal">मन्त्र</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> (H1B) </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: blue">गुरु</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> [L=66001] <em><span style="color: #004400">m.</span></em> " preceptor of the gods " , </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: teal">बृहस्पति</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Mn_%22%29" target="_blank"> Mn. </a> xi</span> (H1B) </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: blue">गुरु</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> [L=66002] <em><span style="color: #004400">m.</span></em> (hence) the planet Jupiter </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Jyot_%22%29" target="_blank"> Jyot. </a></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_VarBr2S_%22%29" target="_blank"> VarBr2S. </a></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Bhartr2_%22%29" target="_blank"> Bhartr2. </a></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> &c (H1B) </span></span> <span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: blue">गुरु</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> [L=66003] <strong><span style="color: DarkRed"><em>m.</em> " </span></strong></span></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-size: 9px">पाण्डु</span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong><span style="color: DarkRed">-teacher " </span></strong>, </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: teal">द्रोण</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_L_%22%29" target="_blank"> L. </a></span>(H1B) </span></span> <span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: blue">गुरु</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> [L=66004] <em><span style="color: #004400">m.</span></em> </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: teal">प्रभा-कर</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> (celebrated teacher of the </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: teal">मीमांसा</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> , usually mentioned with </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: teal">कुमारिल</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px">) </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_SS3am2kar_%22%29" target="_blank"> SS3am2kar. </a> vi , 50 ; xv , 157</span> (H1B) </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: blue">गुरु</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"> [L=66005] <em><span style="color: #004400">m.</span></em> (</span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: purple">=</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: blue">धर्म</span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px">) " venerable " , the 9th astrological mansion </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"><a href="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_VarBr2S_%22%29" target="_blank"> VarBr2S. </a> i , </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #004400"></span></span> <strong><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="color: Black">I hope no one chooses the planet Jupiter just to be clever. And it is wrong to pick the meaning that is going to favor a personal theory you are about to spring on us!</span> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></span></span></strong><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">3.b. Gopal, from the Cologne Digital Sanskrit Dictionary. the Sanskrit word to search on is Gopa</span></span></span></strong><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>gopa</strong></span></span> <span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px">m. <strong><span style="color: DarkRed">(= %{-pA4} s.v. %{go4}) a cowherd , herdsman , milkman (considered as a man of mixed caste Para1s3.) Mn. viii MBh. (ifc. f. %{A} , i , 3213) Hariv. &c. ; a protector , guardian RV. x , 61 , 10 Ta1n2d2yaBr. Ka1tyS3r. MBh.</span> ; the </strong>superintendent of several villages , head of a district L. ; a king L. ; `" chief herdsman "' , Kr2ishn2a MBh. ii , 1438 ; a particular class of plants BhP. xii , 8 , 21 ; = %{-rasa} L. ; N. of a Gandharva (cf. %{go-pati}) R. ii , 91 , 44 ; of a Buddh. Arhat W. ; </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"><span style="color: DarkGreen">``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black">The translation that I favor is the one that is consistent with the Shabad itself. </span></span><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ </span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black">is our protector, our guardian, the one who herds us to safety. </span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black">Akaal is the Nourisher and Supporter is referred to with the name Gopal, and by analogy to Krishna. </span></span></span><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black">And that too is the meaning of Sant Ravidas when he says.</span></span></span><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"> </span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਸੁਰਤਰ ਚਿੰਤਾਮਨਿ ਕਾਮਧੇਨੁ ਬਸਿ ਜਾ ਕੇ ॥ </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">sukh saagar surathar chinthaaman kaamadhhaen bas jaa kae ||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">He is the ocean of peace; the miraculous tree of life, the wish-fulfilling jewel, and the Kaamadhayna, the </span><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">cow which fulfills all desires, all are in His power. </span></p><p></p><p>When one part of Gurbani echos other parts in the way words are used, that is how you know the meaning. </p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></span></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 115307, member: 35"] akaalpurakh ji Yes -- I have a theory about where you are headed. And as I have said previously -- we have been down that road before. ;) I would like to return to 3 things you have said where common sense are not aligned with the facts. [B][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen] ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````[/COLOR][/B] 1. You say that [U][B][COLOR=Red]The term Wah-e-Guru does not appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS). I repeat, IT DOES NOT OCCUR IN THE GRANTH SAHIB EVEN ONCE!! Its current use as a generic name for the Supreme Lord is a recent phenomenon and has no precedence in the SGGS. [/COLOR][/B][/U][COLOR=Black](quoted material)[/COLOR] I next pointed out to you that both Bhagat Gayanand and Bhai Gurdas have used the term. In the transliterated version we can see it is in just this one example (There are several others in this thread): [COLOR=DarkGreen]ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥[/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=red]vaahiguroo[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=red]vaahiguroo[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=red][COLOR=red]vaahiguroo[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkGreen]vaahi jeeo || Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o.[/COLOR] You then reply that you have no need of transliterations. [COLOR=DarkGreen] You say: "This is not correct; most of us here can read SGGS in Gurbani. At any rate, I see no point in this argument, for I see no ambiguity with regards to the name in the SGGS. There are countless instances in the SGGS wherein the actual names of the Supreme Lord, such as 'Gopal, Ram, Hari, Mohan, Thakur (generic but specifically referring to Krishna)' etc., are mentioned. I really don't need a Thind 'who has authored more than one book' to sort this out for me. Nor, indeed should you." (quoted material) [COLOR=Black]Now please tell me what this says! In Gurmukhi! Since you don't need transliterations! [/COLOR][/COLOR][B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen]ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][COLOR=DarkGreen][B] ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` [/B] [COLOR=Black] 2. My next concern is based in amazement. Let's go back to your statement as follows: [/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkGreen]"I really don't need a Thind 'who has authored more than one book' to sort this out for me. Nor, indeed should you.[/COLOR]" [COLOR=DarkGreen] [COLOR=Black]In Sikhi - seva is a pre-eminent obligation. And in transliterating the words of the Gurus, Professor Thind is a sevadhar both to the panth and to [/COLOR][/COLOR][B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen]ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=5][COLOR=Black][SIZE=1]He is making the Shabad Guru accessible to a host of Punjabi speakers who cannot read Gurmukhi but can connect their phonetic understanding to the Gurus' meaning. Professor Thind devised fonts, transliterations, shabads for printing, and we reap the fruit of his deep linguistic knowledge. He never took a cent for his work. His wife and children continue his legacy.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen] [/COLOR][/SIZE][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black][COLOR=DarkGreen]```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` [/COLOR]3. Guru and Gopal: [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black]W[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black][B]hat is there to say about that? [/B] Sanskrit more than even Punjabi is a language in which meaning is contextualized. So the meaning of any word depends on the context of use. Three major contexts: poetic, liturgical, ordinary language. That is why the major dictionaries give so many meanings, and that is why translators rely on them for contextual applications. This is basic stuff. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black][B]3.a [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black]The translation of [I]Guru[/I] from the Monier Williams Dictionary. Which choice makes sense? In a liturgical or a poetic context? The one in bold red font...a spiritual parent or preceptor...makes more sense than heavy in the stomach, or "heavy" as you claim when you analyze the word "guru." [B]Guru [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][B]गुरु [/B](H1) [COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][SIZE=-1] [p= [URL="http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/monier/serveimg.pl?file=/scans/MWScan/MWScanjpg/mw0359-gupta.jpg"]359[/URL],2][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [L=65987][/SIZE] [I]mf[/I]([COLOR=blue]वी[/COLOR])[I][COLOR=#004400]n.[/COLOR][/I] ([SIZE=-1][COLOR=#006600]cf.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [COLOR=blue]गिर्/इ[/COLOR] ; [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#006600]comp.[/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=blue]ग्/अरीयस्[/COLOR] , once [COLOR=red]°[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]यस्-तर[/COLOR] , [COLOR=blue]गुरु-तर[/COLOR] , superl. [COLOR=blue]गरिष्ठ[/COLOR] , [COLOR=blue]गुरुतम[/COLOR] [COLOR=purple]»[/COLOR] [SIZE=-1]ss.vv.[/SIZE]) heavy , weighty (opposed to [COLOR=blue]लघ्/उ[/COLOR]) [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_RV_%22%29"] RV. [/URL] i , 39 , 3 and iv , 5 , 6[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_AV_%22%29"] AV. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] ([SIZE=-1][COLOR=#006600]g.[/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=blue]शौण्डा[/COLOR][COLOR=red]*[/COLOR][COLOR=blue]दि[/COLOR] [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Gan2ar_%22%29"] Gan2ar. [/URL] 101[/COLOR][/SIZE]) [SIZE=-1] [L=65988][/SIZE] heavy in the stomach (food) , difficult to digest [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_MBh_%22%29"] MBh. [/URL] i , 3334[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Sus3r_%22%29"] Sus3r. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65989][/SIZE] great , large , extended , long [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400] Ya1jn5. ??[/COLOR][/SIZE] ([COLOR=purple]»[/COLOR] [COLOR=blue]-क्रतु[/COLOR]) [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Bhartr2_%22%29"] Bhartr2. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65990][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Pra1t_%22%29"] Pra1t. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE] (a vowel long both by nature and by position is called [COLOR=blue]गरीयस्[/COLOR] [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_RPra1t_%22%29"] RPra1t. [/URL] xviii , 20[/COLOR][/SIZE]) [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Pa1n2_%22%29"] Pa1n2. [/URL] 1-4 , 11 and 12[/COLOR][/SIZE] (in prosody) long by nature or position (a vowel) [SIZE=-1] [L=65991][/SIZE] high in degree , vehement , violent , excessive , difficult , hard [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_RV_%22%29"] RV. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_MBh_%22%29"] MBh. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65992][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Megh_%22%29"] Megh. [/URL] 80[/COLOR][/SIZE] grievous [SIZE=-1] [L=65993][/SIZE] important , serious , momentous [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_MBh_%22%29"] MBh. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65994][/SIZE] valuable , highly prized [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400] Ya1jn5. ?? ii , 30[/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR] [COLOR=purple]=[/COLOR] [COLOR=blue]गरीयस्[/COLOR]) [SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] ( [SIZE=-1] [L=65995][/SIZE] haughty , proud (speech) [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Pan5cat_%22%29"] Pan5cat. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [L=65996][/SIZE] venerable , respectable (H1B) [COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][SIZE=-1] [L=65997][/SIZE] [I][COLOR=#004400]m.[/COLOR][/I] any venerable or respectable person (father , mother , or any relative older than one's self) [SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Gobh_%22%29"] Gobh. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_S3a1n3khGr2_%22%29"] S3a1n3khGr2. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Mn_%22%29"] Mn. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] &c [/SIZE] (H1B[B])[COLOR=DarkRed]गुरु[/COLOR][SIZE=-1][COLOR=DarkRed] [L=65998][/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=DarkRed] [I]m.[/I] a spiritual parent or preceptor (from whom a youth receives the initiatory [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkRed]मन्त्र or prayer , who instructs him in the [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkRed]शास्त्रs and conducts the necessary ceremonies up to that of investiture which is performed by the [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkRed]आचार्य[/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=DarkRed][B][SIZE=-1]Ya1jn5. ?? i ,[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400] 34[/COLOR]) [/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_RPra1t_%22%29"] [FONT=Arial]RPra1t. [/FONT][/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_A1s3vGr2_%22%29"] A1s3vGr2. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Pa1rGr2_%22%29"] Pa1rGr2. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Mn_%22%29"] Mn. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] &c (H1B) [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [L=65999] [I][COLOR=#004400]m.[/COLOR][/I] the chief of ([/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#006600]gen.[/COLOR] or in [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#006600]comp.[/COLOR]) [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Ca1n2_%22%29"] Ca1n2. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Ragh_%22%29"] Ragh. [/URL] ii , 68[/COLOR] (H1B) [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [L=66000] [I][COLOR=#004400]m.[/COLOR][/I] (with [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=teal]शाक्त[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]s) author of a [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=teal]मन्त्र[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] (H1B) [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [L=66001] [I][COLOR=#004400]m.[/COLOR][/I] " preceptor of the gods " , [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=teal]बृहस्पति[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Mn_%22%29"] Mn. [/URL] xi[/COLOR] (H1B) [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [L=66002] [I][COLOR=#004400]m.[/COLOR][/I] (hence) the planet Jupiter [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Jyot_%22%29"] Jyot. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_VarBr2S_%22%29"] VarBr2S. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_Bhartr2_%22%29"] Bhartr2. [/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] &c (H1B) [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [L=66003] [B][COLOR=DarkRed][I]m.[/I] " [/COLOR][/B][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=Arial][COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]पाण्डु[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][B][COLOR=DarkRed]-teacher " [/COLOR][/B], [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=teal]द्रोण[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_L_%22%29"] L. [/URL][/COLOR](H1B) [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [L=66004] [I][COLOR=#004400]m.[/COLOR][/I] [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=teal]प्रभा-कर[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] (celebrated teacher of the [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=teal]मीमांसा[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] , usually mentioned with [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=teal]कुमारिल[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]) [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_SS3am2kar_%22%29"] SS3am2kar. [/URL] vi , 50 ; xv , 157[/COLOR] (H1B) [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]गुरु[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [L=66005] [I][COLOR=#004400]m.[/COLOR][/I] ([/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=purple]=[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]धर्म[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]) " venerable " , the 9th astrological mansion [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400][URL="http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:winls%28%22mwauth_SktDevaUnicode.html%22,%22record_VarBr2S_%22%29"] VarBr2S. [/URL] i , [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=1][COLOR=#004400] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [B][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkGreen][COLOR=Black]I hope no one chooses the planet Jupiter just to be clever. And it is wrong to pick the meaning that is going to favor a personal theory you are about to spring on us![/COLOR] :rolleyes:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen] [/COLOR][/SIZE][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkGreen]3.b. Gopal, from the Cologne Digital Sanskrit Dictionary. the Sanskrit word to search on is Gopa[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][B]gopa[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]m. [B][COLOR=DarkRed](= %{-pA4} s.v. %{go4}) a cowherd , herdsman , milkman (considered as a man of mixed caste Para1s3.) Mn. viii MBh. (ifc. f. %{A} , i , 3213) Hariv. &c. ; a protector , guardian RV. x , 61 , 10 Ta1n2d2yaBr. Ka1tyS3r. MBh.[/COLOR] ; the [/B]superintendent of several villages , head of a district L. ; a king L. ; `" chief herdsman "' , Kr2ishn2a MBh. ii , 1438 ; a particular class of plants BhP. xii , 8 , 21 ; = %{-rasa} L. ; N. of a Gandharva (cf. %{go-pati}) R. ii , 91 , 44 ; of a Buddh. Arhat W. ; [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Black][COLOR=DarkGreen]``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````[/COLOR] The translation that I favor is the one that is consistent with the Shabad itself. [/COLOR][/SIZE][B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen]ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black]is our protector, our guardian, the one who herds us to safety. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black]Akaal is the Nourisher and Supporter is referred to with the name Gopal, and by analogy to Krishna. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black]And that too is the meaning of Sant Ravidas when he says.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਸੁਰਤਰ ਚਿੰਤਾਮਨਿ ਕਾਮਧੇਨੁ ਬਸਿ ਜਾ ਕੇ ॥ sukh saagar surathar chinthaaman kaamadhhaen bas jaa kae || He is the ocean of peace; the miraculous tree of life, the wish-fulfilling jewel, and the Kaamadhayna, the [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]cow which fulfills all desires, all are in His power. [/COLOR] When one part of Gurbani echos other parts in the way words are used, that is how you know the meaning. [B][SIZE=5][COLOR=DarkGreen] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [/QUOTE]
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