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Islam Is this Islam ?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Gyani Jarnail Singh, Nov 8, 2009.

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  1. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    In connection with a previous article on Buddhists in Thailand Fear Islam...?? is that fear real or imagined..these pics are from London...do they portray Peace and Love ??




    PICTURES FROM LONDON ....THIS IS BEYOND SCARY


    THIS IS BEYOND SCARY
    Makes you wonder doesn't it...can you imagine having a Christian demonstration against Islam in downtown Tehran or Baghdad !

    View the pictures below and decide how you really feel about the future of the Western World..
    These pictures are of Muslims marching through the STREETS OF LONDON during their recent 'Religion of Peace Demonstration'.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Why would anyone think that we should be at war with such nice, peaceful Muslims?

    All PEOPLE need to know. You need to forward this one to everyone! These pictures tell it all!
    Muslims have stated that England will be the first country they take over, then France, Germany, Netherlands, Canada and finally USA?


    These are pictures not shown on American TV or in American Newspapers , but were forwarded by a Canadian who thought All PEOPLE of this world ought to know!
    Not just Christians but the civilised citizens of the world need to know.
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    feels like when your "guest" enters your bedroom and wants to behead you in return for inviting him into your home...:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:
     
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  4. Admin Singh

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    Gyani ji, please end the suspense and also post the link to images... :ice:
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    aman Ji..this came in the mail...i do have the original path/recipients/sender etc but no link.
     
  6. Admin Singh

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    • Like Like x 2
  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Sometimes fore-warned is fore-armed!!!!!

    Read and reflect Navigate the entire site for its relevance to this thread.

    Jihad Watch
     
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  8. wingofnike

    wingofnike
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    Have you ever heard "PROFESSIONAL DEMONSTRATOR?" it's a new profession when you can get pay for doing demonstration. who will pay? obviously some people that with unknown intention, but not a good one offcourse. how to get a "PROFESSIONAL DEMONSTRATOR?" just find unemployed man and dress him up properly. easy propaganda, and cheap too.

    How do I know that they do not represent Islam? because those people do not look like people that have a job. Now i wonder is it possible majority 1.5 billion people do not have job? Do not have nothing better to do in the middle day. your are not white people but i amaze that how quickly you swallow this white media propaganda. even my nephew can tell, they are just bunch jobless people with sign.

    And yeah, last time Islamic Demonstration in my city, a lot of pretty girl and woman join up. They bring their children too, because it's a peacefully. now I wonder why it's not shown up in western media front page. Oh yea, because there is no suspense on that.
     
  9. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Wing of Nike,

    Guru Fateh.

    Pardon my ignorance but I have no idea what you are trying to convey. Would you be kind enough to elaborate what you are trying to say?

    Thanks

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  10. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    wingofnike ji

    Who is not white?


    Is it stereotyping to refer to "white media propaganda? " Or do you believe that all media that is sponsored/supported by "white" people express the same opinions and suffer from the same biases?
     
  11. wingofnike

    wingofnike
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    Pardon my languange before, i'm typing in hurry, by trying copying stand up comedy routine.

    this is what i mean. it only need to be happen once, then we learn a lot from that. that's how we muslim know there are people hijacking our religion for their own personal purpose.

    Shakeel Bhat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    but no need to see this guy appear in internet to learn that. this only a hard prove i gave you about professional protester. I already learn to do not easily believe ingenuity of protester from first hand experience. sometime they rent truck to load this professional protester from far region do do protest in the city. if village people know about this tactic, you can imagine this plying down in global scale. if village people know about professional protester, then you should know better, since you have internet in front of you.
     
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  12. wingofnike

    wingofnike
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    Bhat has continued being a professional protester, even getting paid on occasion.
     
  13. wingofnike

    wingofnike
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    Whoaa, slow down here, I believe that my believe is not so easy for you to analyze. Because that is believe, it's a faith. If you are not me, than how come you can simplify my believe in just on or two sentence? How you will experience my life experience if you are not taking my body and years of my life? Now that question is true hardcore phylosophy question, asking about understanding other people faith. Not to mention making definition of faith first. Don't answer that, because philosophy answer could be long.

    But for brief answer, I made stereotyping of "white people" and "white media propaganda" because in the beginning of this thread, some Sikh follower were stereotyping Muslim too (no offence intended, i really do not know the term for sikh follower).

    If someone can see that I make stereotyping than he/she can also see the stereotyping that we Muslim receive. I think that is the use irony and satire for.
     
  14. wingofnike

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    Anyway, for clarify to whom i made this "stereotyping", i gave you explanation. Centuries ago, there are some races (or ethnic of human race) who advance colonialism and imperialism to new level. Level that ended by some of this colonialist start colonize they fellow colonist in their own turf (a.k.a Germany invade Poland and France).

    Because majority of this oppressor were European and they discriminate people by skin color, sometime this racist were refer as "white people" (they made this term by their own, you know that)

    Every time i meet racist people in internet, i test his/her knowledge about racism in the past by bring the term "white people". Do they familiar with history of Colonialism and Imperialism era? If they do, then they will know the experience lot of nation under Colonialism and Imperialism of European people. We clearly do not want go back to that era.

    My logic is this: if your people, the non-white, were under colonialism of European, a.k.a white people) surely your history book is full of their dirty tactic that were used to bring your people under Colonialism. From my opinion, India still suffer from effect of Colonialism. India torn apart.

    Another logic: If you see what happen in oyur country during cold war, surely you familiar with tactic of either capitalism or communism when they screw the world during global power struggle.

    As the victim surrely we should now better about the tactic of the villain. Learn it from history.

    Another reason I uses the term of "white people" or "white media propaganda" to raise question, from whom you get your information. Learning from colonialism and cold war, I still believe there are a lot of big player out there. This time I only want to make sure my people are not deceived again.

    But perhaps, the big villain are not "white" anymore.
     
  15. spnadmin

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    wingofnikeji

    While I do admit I have never heard of him before your information was posted for me to see, it is also no secret that professional protesters have become both common and big business. Every country, every political or religious or legal or social controversy can make use of these fakes. And it is somewhat effective when the media sees a large group of angry "citizens" and does not probe deeper to find out how many were paid.

    So we should keep an eye on this situation. Thank you
     
  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I asked for you to clarify your statements about stereotyping and who is stereotyping and what is being stereotyped. It is curious that your reply would be what it is.

    You have not answered my very simple questions. And instead you have made some assumptions about me that may or may not be true.

    Still my questions go unanswered. And instead you give me a lecture.

    Here are my questions again ji: Is it stereotyping to refer to "white media propaganda? " Or do you believe that all media that is sponsored/supported by "white" people express the same opinions and suffer from the same biases?

    Let me add one more question,Do y
    ou believe that all media that is sponsored/supported by "white" people express the same stereotypes against Muslims?
     
  17. wingofnike

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    Ok about the Bias of Media.

    No need to be white in order to be bias. All media suffer from incapability to cover from all side point of view. Not to mention that some media already establish that ground basic of their ideology. Like I said, I use stereotyping because the media stereotyping me too.

    But it's not that hard to see intention of media outlet. Also it's not that hard to recognize people that only receive one side information for their entire life.

    What i refer as "white media propaganda" is people who do not know the experience under colonialism and victim of cold war. What i refer as "white media propaganda" also can be mean as media that involve in shaping people opinion during cold war. Because if you bring that people to my city and let them talk, my people will all agree that they just being white. They do not understand us. Similar like their first ancestor that came to our land.
     
  18. spnadmin

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    Well wingofnike ji

    Here is my reply. I am not one of those US citizens who is embarrassed to be an American and make no apologies. At the same time I make no excuses for acts of my government that i find to be morally repugnant. Once again you seem to be making a lot of assumptions and engaging in some stereotyping yourself. Let's take a look.

    1. To divide up the world into "colonialists" (European people) versus people under colonialism promotes a psychology of victimization that has some truth, but also a lot of fiction. The world was and is not quite divided that way. The victimology that flows from this false assertion gives a kind of permission to the people who were historically "victimized" to continue to look outside the boundaries of their current political reality for the source of their problems. And it gives permission to blame history for political and economic problems, instead of looking within the culture itself for answers for the present.

    2. I would be the first to agree that European colonialism,European governments and institutions (e.g., churches) demoralized vast segments of Asia and Africa. The effects of colonialism do not disappear overnight either. Colonists drained resources. Destroyed local traditions and institutions. Demoralized and undermined cultural pride and identity. Nearly all colonized peoples required some kind of revolutionary action to get back independence. Sometimes violently and other times through prolonged activism. Yet some of these countries have moved toward cultural renewal faster than others, and were able to do this without resorting to a philosophy of endless terrorism. This is true even within the Arab world.

    3. In some instances, once independence was achieved, colonized peoples turned around and oppressed other minority cultures and groups within their societies. Sometimes they did this brutally, and sometimes through ethnic extermination. Often the reason given for brutal suppression was that oppression and brutality are required to remove the effects of European colonialism. This needs some up-front review because there are quite a few holes in this kind of argument when we look at ethnic extermination in Africa or the actions of Taliban in northern Pakistan.

    4. Among those colonized by the British were the Irish during a period of brutal suppression that lasted literally for centuries. This political oppression resulted in starvation and epidemics in Ireland through most of the 19th Century. Pretty much the same happened in Ireland as elsewhere, and in some cases the oppression was worse. Religion, language, history, identity, land, political liberties, even the ability to raise certain foods or own farmland was denied them. It took years of armed insurrection for the Irish to gain their independence. And this was only partial independence , as the troubles continued in Northern Ireland for generations after that. The Irish to my knowledge are/were as "white" as their oppressors.

    5. What do you mean by "white?" You have not answered that question. My Italian grandmother used to call my father (in her Neapolitan dialect) lu Saracene (pronounced loo Sa-ra-chain) because he was dark in color and looked like the Shah of Iran (who BTW was lighter than my father).

    6. For now I will accept the ambiguity of your division by color - i.e., white/not white - in order to point out that Muslims oppressed India for centuries, before the British arrived on the scene. By your definition, the Muslim world is not white and the world of India is not white, because both were oppressed by European colonists at some point in history. Did Muslims suddenly become not white only during their period of colonization? What color were Muslims before they became colonialists in India? I always thought that the Muslim world was peopled by groups of many different skin colors, hair color, and eye color. It seems to me that oppression is oppression no matter what the color of victim and oppressor.

    7. Asking me or any one else where we get our information is an attempt to put me/them on the defensive. You are going to have to accept my claim that I read widely and on all sides of political disputes. And you are going to have to accept my claim that I am capable of weighing information and arriving at a reasonable conclusion.

    Your basic arguments are lost to me because they are buried in commentary about color and colonialism and the "white" media. Would you please explain again how your religion has been hijacked?
     
    #17 spnadmin, Jun 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2010
  19. wingofnike

    wingofnike
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    I write a lot of answer, but the server logged me off.

    I have to write it again.
     
  20. wingofnike

    wingofnike
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    For brief:
    1.
    I used it as satire or irony. People who experienced stereotyping know better, I believe lot of people intentionally use stereotyping for the same reason, especially when they are the group that suffer from stereotyping. Right now, we Muslim are suffer from stereotyping.

    2. The title of the thread is questioning "Is this Islam?" with question mark and put link propaganda picture. I call it propaganda, because I suspect the motivation of people in that picture is not sincere. Propaganda by who? Muslim or Non-Muslim? I will answer that latter. Then we fall into discussion about media, colonialism, "white and non-white", victim and oppressor.

    3. White thing
    No I do not divide people by skin, I know better. I divide people by their intention, and put label on group people (by their motive) depend on the situation. I call them white and white media, in purpose of satire, other time, perhaps i used it as matter of joke, just because that's how comedians do.

    4. Colonialism need successor. That ideology die, but the people of that ideology are not. Off course there are new group that try to control the world power, filling space empty left by colonialism. We know that as cold war. Capitalism and Communism. Now after the cold war there are also new group and they form they own new ideology. I have my definition about this people, but I need align my argument. Perhaps in the next post. But this people is the prime suspect who control media. Because history said so. Main stream media is controlled by power possessor, underground media by rebelion

    5. Media is control by certain group. How? By using money and resource. Satellite and undersea cable is not free. Anyone can finance the event will reach front page news. That's how professional protester work. Base on my country history, people who finance professional protester only want stir the situation into chaos. Good people will hire good PR instead of Angry People with ugly beard. People who hold the sign beheaded either stupid or practicing Islam wrongfully. Either way, majority Muslim do not support them. We Muslim see it as propaganda people who one chaos only. And media outlet buy that. Western media can be understand-ed doing this, because they use it during colonialism and cold war. But the victim of colonialism and cold war also can use it for different intention. Which is lead to my argument about the victim and the oppressor.

    5. can i continue latter? my argument is this we should remain the victim to do not become the oppressor.

    6. Islam do not oppress India. Many Indian convert to Islam, how come they self oppress them self. Islam already part of India, you have to accept that. What happen in the past is Civil War, between small kingdom in India. There are no single entity of India in that time. All kingdom is India. Before Colonialism, the one that hold responsible of what you call oppression is the king. His has his own motive.

    7. That lead me to the motive thing. People that use his own motive and claim that is the divine intervention motive. This is how hijacking religion start.

    you can see my argument depend on the motive thing. well this is philosophy forum, what else to talking about if not something abstract as intention.

    Forget about the "white" thing, either you got the joke, or we move on.

    I sign in because I see some good people here. Again, all about good intention.
     
  21. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    wingofnike ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I have some questions to you about the Islamic media propaganda.I hope you will be upfront and honest as it seems you have been here about the " White media Propaganda".

    Media can only be effective and challenged where there is a democracy. We know that such thing does not exist in the Islamic countries which is the fact.

    1.Is it because of the religion? If not, then can you give us the reason about this ?

    2.What do you think of the Islamic media propaganda in the Muslim countries?

    3.Why do Muslims kill each other daily in the Islamic countries?


    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     

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