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Is the Guru Always God as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Sikh80, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    kir syvw siqgur Apuny kI gur qy pweIAY pwlY ]3](213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    [So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ]|



    The primary question that boils down is the term Guru always GOD if one takes up this in the context Of SGGS ji.Looking at the above there are terms like GURU, Satguru; it comes to mind if Waheguru not the Guru and satguru for us or should we stop at SGGS ji as our GURU and GOd both; and do bani etc/keertan.I am not able to reconcile everytime I think of this. There should be a better answer to this.

    You may like to help.

    I am quoting a second line as an example.It may be read in continuation with the above.
    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਾਜੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਗੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦਾਨੁ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ
    हरि हरि भगती काजु सुहेला गुरि सतिगुरि दानु दिवाइआ ॥
    Har har bẖagṯī kāj suhėlā gur saṯgur ḏān ḏivā­i­ā.
    Through devotional worship to the Lord, this ceremony is made blissful and beautiful; the Guru, the True Guru, has given this gift.
     
    #1 Sikh80, Jan 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
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  3. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

    Thanks for the wonderful Vaak from Gurdev.

    kir syvw siqgur Apuny kI gur qy pweIAY pwlY ]3](213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    [So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ]|

    I did not know that 'Paalay' means Naam. Which dictionary describes it? Has Gurdev explained this also?


    Balbir Singh
     
  4. Sherab

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    [SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-0] ਪਾਲਨ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ. "ਸੋ ਉਦਾਸੀ, ਜੋ ਪਾਲੈ ਉਦਾਸ". (ਵਾਰ ਰਾਮ ੧. ਮਃ ੧)। (2) ਕ੍ਰਿ. ਵਿ- ਪੱਲੇ. "ਨਾਮ ਧਨੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਕੈ ਪਾਲੈ". (ਧਨਾ ਮਃ ੫). [/SIZE]
     
  5. Sikh80

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    I think the reply of Sherab would have served the purpose.However, for the sake of clarity I am giving the contextual usage of the tuk.May be it helps.


    myry mn guru guru guru sd krIAY ] (213-3, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    O my mind, dwell always upon the Guru, Guru, Guru.
    rqn jnmu sPlu guir kIAw drsn kau bilhrIAY ]1] rhwau ] (213-4, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    The Guru has made the jewel of this human life prosperous and fruitful. I am a sacrifice to the Blessed Vision of His Darshan. ||1||Pause||
    jyqy sws gRws mnu lyqw qyqy hI gun gweIAY ] (213-4, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    As many breaths and morsels as you take, O my mind - so many times, sing His Glorious Praises.
    jau hoie dYAwlu siqguru Apunw qw ieh miq buiD pweIAY ]1] (213-5, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    When the True Guru becomes merciful, then this wisdom and understanding is obtained. ||1||
    myry mn nwim ley jm bMD qy CUtih srb suKw suK pweIAY ] (213-6, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    O my mind, taking the Naam, you shall be released from the bondage of death, and the peace of all peace will be found.
    syiv suAwmI siqguru dwqw mn bMCq Pl AweIAY ]2] (213-6, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    Serving your Lord and Master, the True Guru, the Great Giver, you shall obtain the fruits of your mind's desires. ||2||
    nwmu iestu mIq suq krqw mn sMig quhwrY cwlY ] (213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    The Name of the Creator is your beloved friend and child; it alone shall go along with you, O my mind.
    kir syvw siqgur Apuny kI gur qy pweIAY pwlY ]3] (213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ||3||
     
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  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    गउड़ी पूरबी महला ५ ॥
    Ga­oṛī pūrbī mehlā 5.
    Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

    ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਦ ਕਰੀਐ
    मेरे मन गुरु गुरु गुरु सद करीऐ ॥
    Mėrė man gur gur gur saḏ karī­ai.
    O my mind, dwell always upon the Guru, Guru, Guru.

    ਰਤਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਸਫਲੁ ਗੁਰਿ ਕੀਆ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਉ ਬਲਿਹਰੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    रतन जनमु सफलु गुरि कीआ दरसन कउ बलिहरीऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Raṯan janam safal gur kī­ā ḏarsan ka­o baliharī­ai. ||1|| rahā­o.
    The Guru has made the jewel of this human life prosperous and fruitful. I am a sacrifice to the Blessed Vision of His Darshan. ||1||Pause||

    ਜੇਤੇ ਸਾਸ ਗ੍ਰਾਸ ਮਨੁ ਲੇਤਾ ਤੇਤੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਈਐ
    जेते सास ग्रास मनु लेता तेते ही गुन गाईऐ ॥
    Jėṯė sās garās man lėṯā ṯėṯė hī gun gā­ī­ai.
    As many breaths and morsels as you take, O my mind - so many times, sing His Glorious Praises.

    ਜਉ ਹੋਇ ਦੈਆਲੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਪੁਨਾ ਤਾ ਇਹ ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥
    जउ होइ दैआलु सतिगुरु अपुना ता इह मति बुधि पाईऐ ॥१॥
    Ja­o ho­ė ḏai­āl saṯgur apunā ṯā ih maṯ buḏẖ pā­ī­ai. ||1||
    When the True Guru becomes merciful, then this wisdom and understanding is obtained. ||1||

    ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਏ ਜਮ ਬੰਧ ਤੇ ਛੂਟਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਈਐ
    मेरे मन नामि लए जम बंध ते छूटहि सरब सुखा सुख पाईऐ ॥
    Mėrė man nām la­ė jam banḏẖ ṯė cẖẖūteh sarab sukẖā sukẖ pā­ī­ai.
    O my mind, taking the Naam, you shall be released from the bondage of death, and the peace of all peace will be found.

    ਸੇਵਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਨ ਬੰਛਤ ਫਲ ਆਈਐ ॥੨॥
    सेवि सुआमी सतिगुरु दाता मन बंछत फल आईऐ ॥२॥
    Sėv su­āmī saṯgur ḏāṯā man bancẖẖaṯ fal ā­ī­ai. ||2||
    Serving your Lord and Master, the True Guru, the Great Giver, you shall obtain the fruits of your mind's desires. ||2||

    ਨਾਮੁ ਇਸਟੁ ਮੀਤ ਸੁਤ ਕਰਤਾ ਮਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਤੁਹਾਰੈ ਚਾਲੈ
    नामु इसटु मीत सुत करता मन संगि तुहारै चालै ॥
    Nām isat mīṯ suṯ karṯā man sang ṯuhārai cẖālai.
    The Name of the Creator is your beloved friend and child; it alone shall go along with you, O my mind.

    ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਕੀ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਾਲੈ ॥੩॥
    करि सेवा सतिगुर अपुने की गुर ते पाईऐ पालै ॥३॥
    Kar sėvā saṯgur apunė kī gur ṯė pā­ī­ai pālai. ||3||
    So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ||3||

    ਗੁਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾਲਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਧਾਰੀ ਬਿਨਸੇ ਸਰਬ ਅੰਦੇਸਾ
    गुरि किरपालि क्रिपा प्रभि धारी बिनसे सरब अंदेसा ॥
    Gur kirpāl kirpā parabẖ ḏẖārī binsė sarab anḏėsā.
    When God, the Merciful Guru, showered His Mercy upon me, all my anxieties were dispelled.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਨਿ ਮਿਟਿਓ ਸਗਲ ਕਲੇਸਾ ॥੪॥੧੫॥੧੫੩॥
    नानक सुखु पाइआ हरि कीरतनि मिटिओ सगल कलेसा ॥४॥१५॥१५३॥
    Nānak sukẖ pā­i­ā har kīrṯan miti­o sagal kalėsā. ||4||15||153||
    Nanak has found the peace of the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises. All his sorrows have been dispelled. ||4||15||153||
     
    #6 Astroboy, Jan 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  8. Sikh80

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    guru pauVI byVI gurU guru qulhw hir nwau ] (17-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    The Guru is the Ladder, the Guru is the Boat, and the Guru is the Raft to take me to the Lord's Name.
    guru sru swgru boihQo guru qIrQu drIAwau ] (17-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    The Guru is the Boat to carry me across the world-ocean; the Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Holy River.
    jy iqsu BwvY aUjlI sq sir nwvx jwau ]3] (17-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    If it pleases Him, I bathe in the Pool of Truth, and become radiant and pure.
    suriq hovY piq aUgvY gurbcnI Bau Kwie ] (18-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    Intuitive understanding is obtained and one is welcomed with honor, through the Guru's Word, filled with the Fear of God.
    nwnk scw pwiqswhu Awpy ley imlwie ]4]10] (18-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
    O Nanak, the True King absorbs us into Himself. ||4||10|

    nwnk ndrI pweIAY scu nwmu guxqwsu ]4]1]34] (26-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    O Nanak, by His Glance of Grace, the True Name, the Treasure of Excellence, is obtained. ||4||1||34||
    ibnu siqgur suKu n pwveI iPir iPir jonI pwih ]3] (26-17, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    But without the True Guru, you will not find peace; you will be reincarnated over and over again. ||3||
    sic imly sy n ivCuVih iqn inj Gir vwsw hoie ]1] (27-2, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    Those who meet the True Lord are not separated again; they come to dwell in the home of the self deep within. ||1||
    myry rwm mY hir ibnu Avru n koie ] (27-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    O my Lord! Without the Lord, I have no other at all.
    sqguru scu pRBu inrmlw sbid imlwvw hoie ]1] rhwau ] (27-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    The True Guru leads us to meet the Immaculate True God through the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause||
    sbid imlY so imil rhY ijs nau Awpy ley imlwie ] (27-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    One whom the Lord merges into Himself is merged in the Shabad, and remains so merged.
    sic imly sy n ivCuVih iqn inj Gir vwsw hoie ]1] (27-2, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    Those who meet the True Lord are not separated again; they come to dwell in the home of the self deep within. ||1||
    myry rwm mY hir ibnu Avru n koie ] (27-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
    O my Lord! Without the Lord, I have no other at all.
     
  9. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    kir syvw siqgur Apuny kI gur qy pweIAY pwlY ]3](213-7, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ 5)
    [So serve your True Guru, and you shall receive the Name from the Guru. ]|



    The primary question that boils down is the term Guru always GOD if one takes up this in the context Of SGGS ji.Looking at the above there are terms like GURU, Satguru; it comes to mind if Waheguru not the Guru and satguru for us or should we stop at SGGS ji as our GURU and GOd both; and do bani etc/keertan.I am not able to reconcile everytime I think of this. There should be a better answer to this.

    You may like to help.

    I am quoting a second line as an example.It may be read in continuation with the above.
    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਾਜੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਗੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦਾਨੁ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ

    Through devotional worship to the Lord, this ceremony is made blissful and beautiful; the Guru, the True Guru, has given this gift.

    **********************
    What is the significance of using Guru and true Guru in the same vaak.? Kindly clarify the two vaaks.
    __________________
     
    #8 Sikh80, Jan 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  10. Sikh80

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    resubmitted for guidance .
     
  11. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    The following 'sabad' appears on ang 23. The gurmukhi font is not working properly and hence the following translation is posted that states that True Guru is the mind's desire.May be learned one can throw some light.


    Admin note: You give Ang 23 as the location of the Shabad, and identify the Guru as Guru Amar Das (3rd Mehl). But Guru Nanak is the aurhor of the bani on Ang 23; and Guru Amar Das's bani does not start until some pages later (Ang 26? ;:rolleyes:). See my highlights in red. Would you set this matter straight so that a mod does not have to search for you. Kindly decide which Guru and which Ang. Then we can take this forward. Warm regards, Narayanjot Kaur


    Siree Raag, Third Mehl, First House:


    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:


    I serve my True Guru with single-minded devotion, and lovingly focus my consciousness on Him. The True Guru is the mind's desire and the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, for those unto whom He has given this understanding. The blessings of the wishes of the mind are obtained, and the fruits of one's desires. Meditate on the Name, worship the Name, and through the Name, you shall be absorbed in intuitive peace and poise. ||1||


    O my mind, drink in the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and your thirst shall be quenched. Those Gurmukhs who have tasted it remain intuitively absorbed in the Lord. ||1||Pause||


    Those who serve the True Guru obtain the Treasure of the Naam. Deep within, they are drenched with the Essence of the Lord, and the egotistical pride of the mind is subdued.The heart-lotus blossoms forth, and they intuitively center themselves in meditation.Their minds become pure, and they remain immersed in the Lord; they are honored in His Court. ||2||
    Those who serve the True Guru in this world are very rare. Those who keep the Lord enshrined in their hearts subdue egotism and possessiveness. I am a sacrifice to those who are in love with the Naam. Those who attain the Inexhaustible Name of the Infinite Lord remain happy throughout the four ages. ||3||
    Meeting with the Guru, the Naam is obtained, and the thirst of emotional attachment departs. When the mind is permeated with the Lord, one remains detached within the home of the heart.I am a sacrifice to those who enjoy the Sublime Taste of the Lord.O Nanak, by His Glance of Grace, the True Name, the Treasure of Excellence, is obtained. ||4||1||34||
     
  12. spnadmin

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    Which line or lines in the shabad cause/es you to ask whether the Guru is God? Let's stipulate that Guru is God. So then, putting my initial question a different way, which line/lines exactly cause your confusion? Then we can move forward.
     
  13. Taranjeet singh

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    To Mod:My sincerest apologies for mentioning as 23,
    the ang is 26.
    The sabad as it appears at srigranth.org is reproduced below.
    Hope the fonts in Hindi and Gurmukhi appear correct on your browser.
    I can just see some squares'

    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ
    सिरीरागु महला ३ घरु १
    Sirīrāg mėhlā 3 gẖar 1
    Siree Raag, Third Mehl, First House:
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
    ਹਉ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੀ ਆਪਣਾ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ਭਾਇ
    हउ सतिगुरु सेवी आपणा इक मनि इक चिति भाइ ॥
    Ha▫o saṯgur sevī āpṇā ik man ik cẖiṯ bẖā▫e.
    I serve my True Guru with single-minded devotion, and lovingly focus my consciousness on Him.


    1.Who is the True Guru Refd. to in this Line]

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਨ ਕਾਮਨਾ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦੇਇ ਬੁਝਾਇ
    सतिगुरु मन कामना तीरथु है जिस नो देइ बुझाइ ॥
    Saṯgur man kāmnā ṯirath hai jis no ḏe▫e bujẖā▫e.
    The True Guru is the mind's desire and the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, for those unto whom He has given this understanding.


    2.True Guru is Mind's desire]

    ਮਨ ਚਿੰਦਿਆ ਵਰੁ ਪਾਵਣਾ ਜੋ ਇਛੈ ਸੋ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇ
    मन चिंदिआ वरु पावणा जो इछै सो फलु पाइ ॥
    Man cẖinḏi▫ā var pāvṇā jo icẖẖai so fal pā▫e.
    The blessings of the wishes of the mind are obtained, and the fruits of one's desires.


    ਨਾਉ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਨਾਉ ਮੰਗੀਐ ਨਾਮੇ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧॥
    नाउ धिआईऐ नाउ मंगीऐ नामे सहजि समाइ ॥१॥
    Nā▫o ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai nā▫o mangī▫ai nāme sahj samā▫e. ||1||
    Meditate on the Name, worship the Name, and through the Name, you shall be absorbed in intuitive peace and poise. ||1||


    ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਚਾਖੁ ਤਿਖ ਜਾਇ
    मन मेरे हरि रसु चाखु तिख जाइ ॥
    Man mere har ras cẖākẖ ṯikẖ jā▫e.
    O my mind, drink in the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and your thirst shall be quenched.




    ਜਿਨੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਚਾਖਿਆ ਸਹਜੇ ਰਹੇ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    जिनी गुरमुखि चाखिआ सहजे रहे समाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Jinī gurmukẖ cẖākẖi▫ā sėhje rahe samā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Those Gurmukhs who have tasted it remain intuitively absorbed in the Lord. ||1||Pause||


    3. Lord refd. to here ;is It The Creator?

    ਜਿਨੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਤਿਨੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ
    जिनी सतिगुरु सेविआ तिनी पाइआ नामु निधानु ॥
    Jinī saṯgur sevi▫ā ṯinī pā▫i▫ā nām niḏẖān.
    Those who serve the True Guru obtain the Treasure of the Naam.


    4.Who is Tru Guru here?



    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਚੂਕਾ ਮਨਿ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ
    अंतरि हरि रसु रवि रहिआ चूका मनि अभिमानु ॥
    Anṯar har ras rav rahi▫ā cẖūkā man abẖimān.
    Deep within, they are drenched with the Essence of the Lord, and the egotistical pride of the mind is subdued.




    ਹਿਰਦੈ ਕਮਲੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸਿਆ ਲਾਗਾ ਸਹਜਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ
    हिरदै कमलु प्रगासिआ लागा सहजि धिआनु ॥
    Hirḏai kamal pargāsi▫ā lāgā sahj ḏẖi▫ān.
    The heart-lotus blossoms forth, and they intuitively center themselves in meditation.


    5.Meditation is referring to Naam i.e 'waheguru'?



    ਮਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਪਾਇਆ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥੨॥
    मनु निरमलु हरि रवि रहिआ पाइआ दरगहि मानु ॥२॥
    Man nirmal har rav rahi▫ā pā▫i▫ā ḏargahi mān. ||2||
    Their minds become pure, and they remain immersed in the Lord; they are honored in His Court. ||2||
    6. What Is Lord Here? True Guru or naam.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਨਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਤੇ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ
    सतिगुरु सेवनि आपणा ते विरले संसारि ॥
    Saṯgur sevan āpṇā ṯe virle sansār.
    Those who serve the True Guru in this world are very rare.


    7. Who is refd. to as Tru Guru Here??????is it Lord or the 'Naam'

    ਹਉਮੈ ਮਮਤਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਉਰ ਧਾਰਿ
    हउमै ममता मारि कै हरि राखिआ उर धारि ॥
    Ha▫umai mamṯā mār kai har rākẖi▫ā ur ḏẖār.
    Those who keep the Lord enshrined in their hearts subdue egotism and possessiveness.


    8. Who is Lord stated here ?

    ਹਉ ਤਿਨ ਕੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰਣੈ ਜਿਨਾ ਨਾਮੇ ਲਗਾ ਪਿਆਰੁ
    हउ तिन कै बलिहारणै जिना नामे लगा पिआरु ॥
    Ha▫o ṯin kai balihārṇai jinā nāme lagā pi▫ār.
    I am a sacrifice to those who are in love with the Naam.




    ਸੇਈ ਸੁਖੀਏ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਜਿਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਖੁਟੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
    सेई सुखीए चहु जुगी जिना नामु अखुटु अपारु ॥३॥
    Se▫ī sukẖī▫e cẖahu jugī jinā nām akẖut apār. ||3||
    Those who attain the Inexhaustible Name of the Infinite Lord remain happy throughout the four ages. ||3||


    ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਚੂਕੈ ਮੋਹ ਪਿਆਸ
    गुर मिलिऐ नामु पाईऐ चूकै मोह पिआस ॥
    Gur mili▫ai nām pā▫ī▫ai cẖūkai moh pi▫ās.
    Meeting with the Guru, the Naam is obtained, and the thirst of emotional attachment departs.


    9.Which Guru ?? Lord/ Guru Granth Sahib, or ??



    ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਮਨੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਘਰ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ਉਦਾਸੁ
    हरि सेती मनु रवि रहिआ घर ही माहि उदासु ॥
    Har seṯī man rav rahi▫ā gẖar hī māhi uḏās.
    When the mind is permeated with the Lord, one remains detached within the home of the heart.


    10.Lord here ?

    ਜਿਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਸਾਦੁ ਆਇਆ ਹਉ ਤਿਨ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੈ ਜਾਸੁ
    जिना हरि का सादु आइआ हउ तिन बलिहारै जासु ॥
    Jinā har kā sāḏ ā▫i▫ā ha▫o ṯin balihārai jās.
    I am a sacrifice to those who enjoy the Sublime Taste of the Lord.


    11.Which Lord? Is it not Naam?

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਗੁਣਤਾਸੁ ॥੪॥੧॥੩੪॥





    नानक नदरी पाईऐ सचु नामु गुणतासु ॥४॥१॥३४॥
    Nānak naḏrī pā▫ī▫ai sacẖ nām guṇṯās. ||4||1||34||
    O Nanak, by His Glance of Grace, the True Name, the Treasure of Excellence, is obtained. ||4||1||34||


    12.Whose Grace are we supposed to have...It should be the LORD

    Incidentally there would be many other lines In SGGS where one can infer that avertment is to the Primal Being ...LORD. Try to post those as the thread proceeds. Pl. Do not ignore this and it is not trolling either. None would waste time in these matters. may be I am unfortunate that my basics are not right. But it is so...

    Due regards.!!
     
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    #12 Taranjeet singh, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Excellent! You recovered your Gurmukhi fonts. Satguruji is always the support of his devoted.
     
  15. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Who is the True Guru referred to in this line? (twinkle ji)

    ਹਉ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੀ ਆਪਣਾ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ਭਾਇ
    हउ सतिगुरु सेवी आपणा इक मनि इक चिति भाइ ॥
    Ha▫o saṯgur sevī āpṇā ik man ik cẖiṯ bẖā▫e.
    I serve my True Guru with single-minded devotion, and lovingly focus my consciousness on Him.

    Buddha's answer

    [​IMG]

    Closeup of a rose flower in full bloom

    This is one of Guru Nanak's many answers. Guru Nanak, Ang 72

    ਤੂੰ ਸਭਨਾ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
    thoon sabhanaa maahi samaaeiaa ||
    You, Lord, are pervading in all,


    ਤਿਨਿ ਕਰਤੈ ਆਪੁ ਲੁਕਾਇਆ ॥
    thin karathai aap lukaaeiaa ||
    and yet, the Creator keeps Himself concealed.


    ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇਆ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਜੋਤਿ ਧਰੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧੫॥
    naanak guramukh paragatt hoeiaa jaa ko joth dhharee karathaar jeeo ||15||
    O Nanak, the Creator is revealed to the Gurmukh, within whom He has infused His Light. ||15||


    ਆਪੇ ਖਸਮਿ ਨਿਵਾਜਿਆ ॥
    aapae khasam nivaajiaa ||
    The Master Himself bestows honor.

    ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਦੇ ਸਾਜਿਆ ॥
    jeeo pindd dhae saajiaa ||
    He creates and bestows body and soul.

    ਆਪਣੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਰਖੀਆ ਦੁਇ ਕਰ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਧਾਰਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧੬॥
    aapanae saevak kee paij rakheeaa dhue kar masathak dhhaar jeeo ||16||
    He Himself preserves the honor of His servants; He places both His Hands upon their foreheads. ||16||

    ਸਭਿ ਸੰਜਮ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ॥
    sabh sanjam rehae siaanapaa ||
    All strict rituals are just clever contrivances.

    ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਜਾਣਦਾ ॥
    maeraa prabh sabh kishh jaanadhaa ||
    My God knows everything.

    ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਵਰਤਾਇਓ ਸਭੁ ਲੋਕੁ ਕਰੈ ਜੈਕਾਰੁ ਜੀਉ ॥੧੭॥
    pragatt prathaap varathaaeiou sabh lok karai jaikaar jeeo ||17||
    He has made His Glory manifest, and all people celebrate Him. ||17 |

    ਮੇਰੇ ਗੁਣ ਅਵਗਨ ਨ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥
    maerae gun avagan n beechaariaa ||
    | He has not considered my merits and demerits;

    ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਅਪਣਾ ਬਿਰਦੁ ਸਮਾਰਿਆ ॥
    prabh apanaa biradh samaariaa ||
    this is God's Own
    Nature.

    ਕੰਠਿ ਲਾਇ ਕੈ ਰਖਿਓਨੁ ਲਗੈ ਨ ਤਤੀ ਵਾਉ ਜੀਉ ॥੧੮॥
    kanth laae kai rakhioun lagai n thathee vaao jeeo ||18||
    Hugging me close in His Embrace, He protects me, and now, even the hot wind does not touch me. ||18||

    ਮੈ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥
    mai man than prabhoo dhhiaaeiaa ||
    Within my mind and body, I meditate on God.

    ਜੀਇ ਇਛਿਅੜਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    jeee eishhiarraa fal paaeiaa ||
    I have obtained the fruits of my soul's desire.

    ਸਾਹ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਸਿਰਿ ਖਸਮੁ ਤੂੰ ਜਪਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀਵੈ ਨਾਉ ਜੀਉ ॥੧੯॥
    saah paathisaah sir khasam thoon jap naanak jeevai naao jeeo ||19||
    You are the Supreme Lord and Master, above the heads of kings. Nanak lives by chanting Your Name. ||19||
     
  16. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Great post Narayanjot ji, after hearing your voice in this issue, i would like to rest my case and applaud you for enlightening our distinguished readership!! :happy: BUT i am sorry to pronounce here Narayanjot ji that here again the question still remains unanswered, in the shabad beautifully quoted by twinkle ji, whom actually the Third Mehl referring to...? The Nanak Himself or the Creator, the almighty, :advocate: i would certainly like to hear your arguement in this context... and i respectfully object to your claim of trolling by twinkle ji, certainly rephrasing the same question differently does not amount to trolling ... i hope the jury understands my argument and decides accordingly...

    re-resubmitted for guidance.

    Regards
     
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  17. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Nanak is the Lord Himself!
     
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  18. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ
    सिरीरागु महला ५ घरु ७ ॥
    Sirīrāg mėhlā 5 gẖar 7.
    Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl, Seventh House:
    ਤੇਰੈ ਭਰੋਸੈ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਮੈ ਲਾਡ ਲਡਾਇਆ
    तेरै भरोसै पिआरे मै लाड लडाइआ ॥
    Ŧerai bẖarosai pi▫āre mai lād ladā▫i▫ā.
    Relying on Your Mercy, Dear Lord, I have indulged in sensual pleasures.
    ਭੂਲਹਿ ਚੂਕਹਿ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥
    भूलहि चूकहि बारिक तूं हरि पिता माइआ ॥१॥
    Bẖūlėh cẖūkėh bārik ṯūʼn har piṯā mā▫i▫ā. ||1||
    Like a foolish child, I have made mistakes. O Lord, You are my Father and Mother. ||1||
    ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਕਹਨੁ ਕਹਾਵਨੁ
    सुहेला कहनु कहावनु ॥
    Suhelā kahan kahāvan.
    It is easy to speak and talk,
    ਤੇਰਾ ਬਿਖਮੁ ਭਾਵਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    तेरा बिखमु भावनु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Ŧerā bikẖam bẖāvan. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    but it is difficult to accept Your Will. ||1||Pause||
    ਹਉ ਮਾਣੁ ਤਾਣੁ ਕਰਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਹਉ ਜਾਨਉ ਆਪਾ
    हउ माणु ताणु करउ तेरा हउ जानउ आपा ॥
    Ha▫o māṇ ṯāṇ kara▫o ṯerā ha▫o jān▫o āpā.
    I stand tall; You are my Strength. I know that You are mine.
    ਸਭ ਹੀ ਮਧਿ ਸਭਹਿ ਤੇ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਬੇਮੁਹਤਾਜ ਬਾਪਾ ॥੨॥
    सभ ही मधि सभहि ते बाहरि बेमुहताज बापा ॥२॥
    Sabẖ hī maḏẖ sabẖėh ṯe bāhar bemuhṯāj bāpā. ||2||
    Inside of all, and outside of all, You are our Self-sufficient Father. ||2||
    ਪਿਤਾ ਹਉ ਜਾਨਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਕਵਨ ਜੁਗਤਾ
    पिता हउ जानउ नाही तेरी कवन जुगता ॥
    Piṯā ha▫o jān▫o nāhī ṯerī kavan jugṯā.
    O Father, I do not know-how can I know Your Way?
    ਬੰਧਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਮੇਰੀ ਰਾਖੈ ਮਮਤਾ ॥੩॥
    बंधन मुकतु संतहु मेरी राखै ममता ॥३॥
    Banḏẖan mukaṯ sanṯahu merī rākẖai mamṯā. ||3||
    He frees us from bondage, O Saints, and saves us from possessiveness. ||3||
    ਭਏ ਕਿਰਪਾਲ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਰਹਿਓ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਾ
    भए किरपाल ठाकुर रहिओ आवण जाणा ॥
    Bẖa▫e kirpāl ṯẖākur rahi▫o āvaṇ jāṇā.
    Becoming Merciful, my Lord and Master has ended my comings and goings in reincarnation.
    ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਾ ॥੪॥੨੭॥੯੭॥
    गुर मिलि नानक पारब्रहमु पछाणा ॥४॥२७॥९७॥
    Gur mil Nānak pārbarahm pacẖẖāṇā. ||4||27||97||
    Meeting with the Guru, Nanak has recognized the Supreme Lord God. ||4||27||97||


    --

    Have no answer if Guru Nanak is the Lord !
     
    #17 Taranjeet singh, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  19. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Hi Sikh80 Ji,
    It's been a long time since your last visit to SPN.
    I'm glad you came back. So how do you do?
     
  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    twinkle ji

    Here again is an interesting tuk:

    ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਾ ॥੪॥੨੭॥੯੭॥
    Gur mil Nānak pārbarahm pacẖẖāṇā. ||4||27||97||
    Meeting with the Guru, Nanak has recognized the Supreme Lord God. ||4||27||97||

    It sounds as if Nanak is meeting the Guru in a dualistic way -- Nanak and Guru. But it is not that. Nanak is ਮਿਲਿ mil (he is joined, met with, the Satguru). In the tuk Guru Nanak is saying that he has recognized the Supreme Lord God as joined to him, he has met him within. So there is no duality. mil = union
    ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਾ



     
    #19 spnadmin, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  21. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ
    सिरीरागु महला ५ ॥
    Sirīrāg mėhlā 5.
    Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl:




    ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਪਪੋਲੀਐ ਵਿਣੁ ਬੁਝੇ ਮੁਗਧ ਅਜਾਣਿ
    भलके उठि पपोलीऐ विणु बुझे मुगध अजाणि ॥
    Bẖalke uṯẖ papolī▫ai viṇ bujẖe mugaḏẖ ajāṇ.
    Arising each day, you cherish your body, but you are idiotic, ignorant and without understanding.




    ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਆਇਓ ਛੁਟੈਗੀ ਬੇਬਾਣਿ
    सो प्रभु चिति न आइओ छुटैगी बेबाणि ॥
    So parabẖ cẖiṯ na ā▫i▫o cẖẖutaigī bebāṇ.
    You are not conscious of God, and your body shall be cast into the wilderness.




    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਰੰਗੁ ਮਾਣਿ ॥੧॥
    सतिगुर सेती चितु लाइ सदा सदा रंगु माणि ॥१॥
    Saṯgur seṯī cẖiṯ lā▫e saḏā saḏā rang māṇ. ||1||
    Focus your consciousness on the True Guru; you shall enjoy bliss forever and ever. ||1||


    True Guru= God

    ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਤੂੰ ਆਇਆ ਲਾਹਾ ਲੈਣਿ
    प्राणी तूं आइआ लाहा लैणि ॥
    Parāṇī ṯūʼn ā▫i▫ā lāhā laiṇ.
    O mortal, you came here to earn a profit.


    ਲਗਾ ਕਿਤੁ ਕੁਫਕੜੇ ਸਭ ਮੁਕਦੀ ਚਲੀ ਰੈਣਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    लगा कितु कुफकड़े सभ मुकदी चली रैणि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Lagā kiṯ kẖufkaṛe sabẖ mukḏī cẖalī raiṇ. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    What useless activities are you attached to? Your life-night is coming to its end. ||1||Pause||


    ਕੁਦਮ ਕਰੇ ਪਸੁ ਪੰਖੀਆ ਦਿਸੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਾਲੁ
    कुदम करे पसु पंखीआ दिसै नाही कालु ॥
    Kuḏam kare pas pankẖī▫ā ḏisai nāhī kāl.
    The animals and the birds frolic and play-they do not see death.


    ਓਤੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਮਨੁਖੁ ਹੈ ਫਾਥਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਾਲਿ
    ओतै साथि मनुखु है फाथा माइआ जालि ॥
    Oṯai sāth manukẖ hai fāthā mā▫i▫ā jāl.
    Mankind is also with them, trapped in the net of Maya.


    ਮੁਕਤੇ ਸੇਈ ਭਾਲੀਅਹਿ ਜਿ ਸਚਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੨॥
    मुकते सेई भालीअहि जि सचा नामु समालि ॥२॥
    Mukṯe se▫ī bẖālī▫ah jė sacẖā nām samāl. ||2||
    Those who always remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord, are considered to be liberated. ||2||


    ਜੋ ਘਰੁ ਛਡਿ ਗਵਾਵਣਾ ਸੋ ਲਗਾ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ
    जो घरु छडि गवावणा सो लगा मन माहि ॥
    Jo gẖar cẖẖad gavāvṇā so lagā man māhi.
    That dwelling which you will have to abandon and vacate-you are attached to it in your mind.




    ਜਿਥੈ ਜਾਇ ਤੁਧੁ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਨਾਹਿ
    जिथै जाइ तुधु वरतणा तिस की चिंता नाहि ॥
    Jithai jā▫e ṯuḏẖ varṯaṇā ṯis kī cẖinṯā nāhi.
    And that place where you must go to dwell-you have no regard for it at all.




    ਫਾਥੇ ਸੇਈ ਨਿਕਲੇ ਜਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਹਿ ॥੩॥
    फाथे सेई निकले जि गुर की पैरी पाहि ॥३॥
    Fāthe se▫ī nikle jė gur kī pairī pāhi. ||3||
    Those who fall at the Feet of the Guru are released from this bondage. ||3||




    ਕੋਈ ਰਖਿ ਸਕਈ ਦੂਜਾ ਕੋ ਦਿਖਾਇ
    कोई रखि न सकई दूजा को न दिखाइ ॥
    Ko▫ī rakẖ na sak▫ī ḏūjā ko na ḏikẖā▫e.
    No one else can save you-don't look for anyone else.




    ਚਾਰੇ ਕੁੰਡਾ ਭਾਲਿ ਕੈ ਆਇ ਪਇਆ ਸਰਣਾਇ
    चारे कुंडा भालि कै आइ पइआ सरणाइ ॥
    Cẖāre kundā bẖāl kai ā▫e pa▫i▫ā sarṇā▫e.
    I have searched in all four directions; I have come to find His Sanctuary.




    ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੈ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹਿ ਡੁਬਦਾ ਲਇਆ ਕਢਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੩॥
    नानक सचै पातिसाहि डुबदा लइआ कढाइ ॥४॥३॥७३॥
    Nānak sacẖai pāṯisāh dubḏā la▫i▫ā kadẖā▫e. ||4||3||73||
    O Nanak, the True King has pulled me out and saved me from drowning! ||4||3||73||


    True King=God


    Conclusion:
    GURU is refd. to as the Creator/Lord ....
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #20 Taranjeet singh, Oct 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016

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