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Christianity Is Sikhism A Pantheistic/Panentheistic Religion?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by spnadmin, May 14, 2009.

  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Is Sikhism a Pantheistic religion? Personally I do not think so. But here is the definition from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Have a good discussion. :D

    Pantheism

    First published Tue Jun 4, 1996; substantive revision Thu May 17, 2007
    Pantheism is a metaphysical and religious position. Broadly defined it is the view that (1) "God is everything and everything is God … the world is either identical with God or in some way a self-expression of his nature" (Owen 1971: 74). Similarly, it is the view that (2) everything that exists constitutes a "unity" and this all-inclusive unity is in some sense divine (MacIntyre 1967: 34). A slightly more specific definition is given by Owen (1971: 65) who says (3) "‘Pantheism’ … signifies the belief that every existing entity is, only one Being; and that all other forms of reality are either modes (or appearances) of it or identical with it." Even with these definitions there is dispute as to just how pantheism is to be understood and who is and is not a pantheist. Aside from Spinoza, other possible pantheists include some of the Presocratics; Plato; Lao Tzu; Plotinus; Schelling; Hegel; Bruno, Eriugena and Tillich. Possible pantheists among literary figures include Emerson, Walt Whitman, D.H. Lawrence, and Robinson Jeffers. Beethoven (Crabbe 1982) and Martha Graham (Kisselgoff 1987) have also been thought to be pantheistic in some of their work — if not pantheists.
    The book recognized as containing the most complete attempt at explaining and defending pantheism from a philosophical perspective is Spinoza's Ethics, finished in 1675 two years before his death. In 1720 John Toland wrote the Pantheisticon: or The Form of Celebrating the Socratic-Society in Latin. He (possibly) coined the term "pantheist" and used it as a synonym for "Spinozist." However, aside from some interesting pantheistic sounding slogans (like "Every Thing is to All, as All is to Every Thing"), and despite promising "A short Dissertation upon a Two-fold philosophy of the Pantheists" Toland's work has little to do with pantheism.
     
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  3. BhagatSingh

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    I think Sihism is moer pantheism than monotheism. Monotheism implies the abrahamic religions.
     
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  4. spnadmin

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    OMG

    ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
    ikoankaar sathnaam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibhan gurprasaadh||
    One Universal Creator God.The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace~
     
  5. BhagatSingh

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    That's not disconfirming evidence towards Sihism being pantheism.

    That deos however show how Sikhism is NOT like the world's largest monothesitic faiths Christianity and Islam.
     
  6. pk70

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    Aad Jio
    Allow me to say that you are very much right in context of pantheism , some part of it is found in Sikhism otherwise its literally “cosmotheism.”, so far we have been opposing cosmotheism shown as Sikhism in some posts where God is expressed as “principle”, it can be confusing many but Gurbani proves otherwise. Guru stresses again and again His being above cosmos. Thanks for pointing it out.
     
  7. spnadmin

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    pk70 ji

    This is a brand new discovery. I never heard of cosmotheism. Thanks for introducing me to this concept. I don't know if I will get any sleep tonight just thinking about it! What a great way to begin a discussion!
     
  8. spnadmin

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    Bhagat ji

    I think you mean - That is not disconfirming evidence against Sikhism being pantheistic. Just want to be sure I understand you. Anyway -- No the mool mantar is not "evidence" in the scientific sense of anything. The mool mantar is the foundation of all of the Shabad of the Guru that follows and that Sikhs adhere to. It is the fundamental belief of Sikhism. Or am I in the wrong forum?
     
  9. BhagatSingh

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    Please elaborate pk 70 ji.
     
  10. pk70

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    Re: Is Sikhism A Pantheistic Religion




    It is a simple statement, doesn't need any elaboration:)
     
  11. spnadmin

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    Re: Is Sikhism A Pantheistic Religion

    Oh Please do pk70 ji -- This can be a great discussion.
     
  12. pk70

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    To satisfy Bhagat Singh Ji, I have to search many Guru Shabdas, then a lot of references by others who are trying it to prove Sikhism as a Comostheism, then my examples from those posts how Gurus refute these small claims etc. So I feel it looks alright as it is. So I ask for forgiveness:)
     
  13. spnadmin

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    I tried :8-:) But I respect your decision pk70 ji :wah: So here is something on that subject.

    [​IMG]
    Cosmotheism - An all encompassing worldview for White Europeans around the globe. Cosmotheism is a religion which positively asserts there is an internal meaning and purpose in life and in the cosmos. There is an essential unity, or consciousness that binds all living beings and all of the inorganic cosmos, as one. And what our true identity is this: we are the cosmos, made self-aware and self-conscious by evolution. Our undeniable human purpose, is to know and to complete ourselves as conscious individuals, and also as a self-aware species, and thereby to co-evolve with the cosmos towards total and universal awareness, and towards the ever-higher perfection of consciousness and being. The best way to start understanding Cosmotheism more completely is to read the three Holy Books of Cosmotheism, which are The Path, On Living Things, and On Society. After this we have a list of suggested reading at The Library. Once you have taken these steps you are welcome to join us for discussion on the Cosmotheist forum. Cosmotheism is an idea that can not be defeated, it is the idea of life. And the progression of it.


    Source; http://cosmotheism.net/
     
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  14. spnadmin

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    Thread moved to Interfaith Dialogs
     
  15. pk70

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    aad Jio
    A bundle of thanks, it is helpful.
    :)
     
  16. BhagatSingh

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    i am saying that mool mantar does not show that SIkhism is not pantheistic.
    um...It provides nothing to dismiss the claim that Sikhism is pantheistic. I hope that clarifes it. :)

    wait, why did you say in "scientific sense"? What other sort of evidence is there?:confused:
     
  17. Tejwant Singh

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    Antonia ji,

    I had heard of Cosmotheism before and I find it oxymoronic because of the name and White man's "selective pruning club" to grow and create likewise people has nothing to do with creating a cosmopolitan world, to the contrary.

    Thanks for posting it.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  18. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Tejwant ji

    The notion that it is a "white" man's religion alone makes my hair stand on end. The web site is very cryptic. There are links that lead to strange statements. And also a kind of leveling of information. I think it is a budding cult == not sure why.
     
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  19. Tejwant Singh

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    Antonia ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    In fact I met a family that belonged to Cosmotheism a few months in Vegas. They were all travelling through on a motorhome. All were blonde more like scandinavian looks. I got curious and checked it out on the internet and read about their growth as a community in a way of selective pruning. Then I realised that it is an ALL WHITE cult.

    That is why I was a bit surprised when PK70 used the word Cosmotheism for Pantheism. Perhaps he was not aware of this cult.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  20. spnadmin

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    Tejwant ji

    I believe that pk70 ji himself said that he had only recently become aware of cosmotheism and was still looking for more internet links. He also writes with the same skepticism as do you and I.


    On the first level, the landing page, of the web site we can read language that echos the principles of pantheism very closely. But that is easy enough to concoct. You or I could easily start a spiritual movement and clone the pantheistic phrases and turn them to our advantage in promoting our new groups. That is what I think is going on. Today many bright people who are turned off by organized religion seek out alternative experiences and are "burned" by them. They then go searching for some kind of spiritual path to meet a spiritual need that went unfulfilled by religion in one form or another. Pantheism appeals to them because it speaks to the spiritual dimension within but does it a way that is personally empowering. The idea that the God within makes oneself a God of sorts is very appealing. Cosmotheism also does not require an extensive system of rituals and practices. So some will be attracted by the appearance of an open-ended philosophical movement that appeals to their intellect, not realizing that unlike pantheism in practice, they will give up that very intellectual independence that they prize.

    The cult-like nature of Cosmotheism, as one looks at the lower level web pages from the site, occurs to me from these patterns. There is a founder who has developed a system of required readings. You cannot go any further until you have read them. There is a pledge of belief of sorts. Most of the web pages that can be accessed are very scant in terms of information. So it leaves an interested party with only one choice -- make a pledge, do the readings, then delve into the deeper levels of the web site without knowing what one is really delving into.


    Now contrast that with Guru Nanak and Sikhism as it has unfolded. Guru Nanak professed no "formal" persona as the founder of a transformational belief system. He was and is always available to anyone and everyone, and as Sikhism unfolded, nothing was a secret and nothing was exclusive. The bani were and are open for anyone to embrace. There are no required readings in order to get started on your journey, yet Sikhism's adherents want and chose to read and meditate upon the Shabad Guru. No one was or is excluded by race, creed or caste. The dharma of Sikhism at every level embraces a simple idea of seva to Guruji and to humanity. One form of seva is the image of the other. Serve Waheguru and you serve humanity. Serve humanity and you serve Guruji. All the "pruning" is done by Guruji, and more often than "pruning" what we see is "churning."


    That is all I can say for now.
     
  21. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Also Tejwant ji

    Would you share something of what you discovered about the origins of the group and how they have spread/proliferated. Thanks.
     

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