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Is it Necessary...

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Jaspreet08, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Jaspreet08

    Jaspreet08
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    for one to have gone through tremendouse hardship before embracing the spiritual life? In other words, can one embrace the Truth without being at their lowest point?

    I think it is rare from someone to do so. What do you think?

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    -Jaspreet
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Jaspreet ji,

    Everything happens according to His hukam. There is no recipe and no prescribed path. Of course the Internet is full of fool-proof plans for finding God -- many involve suffering, most in fact involve emptiness, renunciation, hardship -- plan A and plan B -- like a body builder's diet. Do this and do that, and you will gain 50 pounds spiritual in 10, 100, 1000 days.

    There is no answer to your question, I humbly submit my understanding. It will be fast, slow, or in between according His Will. It will be hard or easy according to His hukam. The important elements, again according to my humble understanding: remember always that the parabraham is within in each and every member of Creation, conscious effort is important but conscious awareness of His karam is more important, devotion comes with practice, devotion is what we want to give Him not what He demands. He is the perfect beloved because He asks for nothing and in return He gives everything. But we must remember that.
     
  4. pk70

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    Jaspreet08 ji
    Guru Nanak answers your question, to understand what he says let me give you first a simple example.
    We born in Maya, think as if we were thrown into a dirty big pool, we have to swim that dirty pool otherwise chances will be to be drowned in it.The “ dirty pool ” is what you call" lowering point" to be necessary; swimming is an effort some could do with His grace. Being in Maya itself is the answer, so getting out of it is necessary, “the reason we don’t see him”, while explaining this, Guru ji answers your question, as I see
    ਦੁਖੁ ਦਰਵਾਜਾ ਰੋਹੁ ਰਖਵਾਲਾ ਆਸਾ ਅੰਦੇਸਾ ਦੁਇ ਪਟ ਜੜੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਲੁ ਖਾਈ ਪਾਣੀ ਘਰੁ ਬਾਧਿਆ ਸਤ ਕੈ ਆਸਣਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਰਹੈ
    Pain is the door filled with the two shutters of hope anxiety, and wrath is the guardsman. The water of worldly valuables is the moat. Within this water, man has built a house. After overcoming such difficulties, man sees the Lord, sitting in the seat of truth. ( SGGS 877 )( Translation is by Manmohan Singh Ji)
     
  5. Jaspreet08

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    Yes...i see what you mean, pk70.
     
  6. KulwantK

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    Sat Nam, Ji-
    A good question, indeed! It oftenly does appear that one has to go through much difficulty before one even looks at the Spiritual side of life. Why, indeed, does this seem to be so often the case?
    Let us look at our own time and space, for example. In this society it is emphasized that one be "successful", meaning having lots of material wealth, money, power, fame, high position, and all those sorts of things. Well, those are great, and nice to have, provided that one is careful in life, doesn't squander them, always remembering God and is responsible in one's thoughts, words and actions. I am sure each of us could think of many wonderful things to do with our money if each of us was as wealthy as someone like Bill Gates. We could start schools, build hospitals, help others start businesses, all kinds of wonderful things!
    However, this also takes a huge amount of strength, to not get bogged down in the pursuit of success for success's sake. So many get so caught up in this they do sad things in order to become successful, and very oftenly forget about the Spiritual aspects of life; some even totally forget God.
    True happiness comes when you can see God's work in everything, and see God in All. It may not even be absolutely necessary to worry overmuch about becoming "successful" as the world at large defines it. We have been told that God takes care of everything, and God and Guru will take care of us. Our main thing is to remember God, hence the Nam Simran. Referring to pk70's answer, Nam Simran is the way to get out of the maya, and reach God. Thank you, pk70!
    Very oftenly we have been told that we have to sink down to a very hard time indeed to begin to think about God. Maybe this is true for some, perhaps not for others. Each of us is unique, therefore each of our situations is going to be unique.
    Hope this helps!
    Wahe Guru
    KuwantK
     
  7. spnadmin

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    Jios,

    May I humbly disagree with the idea that suffering is a prerequisite for finding God. In this I agree with all that KulwantK said below. There are some people who seek the spiritual side of life who were happy in their lives beforehand. I am one of them.

    Suffering that happened later meant that Guruji was there to help me find a way out of my distorted thinking.

    There is an expression, "There are no atheists in foxholes." In other words, when you are dug in on the battlefield facing death and there seems no way to escape, then one believes in God. This is a powerful image. But not my experience.

    So I think that people may differ in terms of how they discover their spirituality in as many ways as there are people on the planet. Some never do. Some argue against spirituality and call it an illusion. Some try to merge it with science. And the beat goes on.

    Guruji does not ask for suffering. That is why I don't think it is a requirement for spirituality.:)
     
  8. Jaspreet08

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    I like to offer a line from a Chaupee Sahib for consideration, Majaraj Guru Gobind Singh Ji Sahib says:
    "Sagal duar ko cchad kai, gahe tuharo duar" - "Abandoning all doors, I come to Your Door"

    And how about your interpration of this from japji Sahib, Majaraj ji says:
    "Gavao ko, jeaa lai pir deh" - "Some sing that He take lifes away, and then give it."
    I interpret this line to mean that God takes away your manukhi jeevan then gives life as a Guru's Sikh.
     
  9. pk70

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    jaspreet ji thinking is appreciable; however, reread the first line before that, your interpretation will not fit in that context.:) Continuity of thought must be kept intact while deciphering Guru Message. Thanks.
     
  10. Jaspreet08

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    Yes...true. So, it's not something to sing about? Is that what you mean?
     
  11. stupidjassi

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    that`s increadble question, i was actually looking someone could ask this question.

    The answer to your question is CLEAR NO
    God has created a Law, and the Law is that no one can embrace the Truth without being at their lowest point.

    This is not just my experiences but guru ji also CLEARY wrote in Guru granth sahib
    ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ
    सलोक मः ५ ॥
    Salok mehlā 5.
    Shalok, Dakhanay Fifth Mehl:

    ਪਹਿਲਾ ਮਰਣੁ ਕਬੂਲਿ ਜੀਵਣ ਕੀ ਛਡਿ ਆਸ
    पहिला मरणु कबूलि जीवण की छडि आस ॥
    Pahilā maraṇ kabūl jīvaṇ kī cẖẖad ās.
    First, accept death, and give up any hope of life.

    ਹੋਹੁ ਸਭਨਾ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁਕਾ ਤਉ ਆਉ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
    होहु सभना की रेणुका तउ आउ हमारै पासि ॥१॥
    Hohu sabẖnā kī rėṇukā ṯa*o ā*o hamārai pās. ||1||
    Become the dust of the feet of all, and then, you may come to me. ||1||



    buhl bhuk maf
     
    #10 stupidjassi, Aug 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  12. Jaspreet08

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    For an ego, isn't becoming the dust of all the lowest point?
     

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