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Is it necessary to understand entire Bani?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by onkar, May 15, 2007.

  1. onkar

    onkar
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    I may not be putting a very relevant question. But I have to clear my doubts I consider it appropriate to have the valuable opinion as to how the 'sangat' here feels about whether we or I should understand the entire Gurbani as a sikh. I don't have time and then I do not understand much Of the Paath That I do daily as a prayer. It is just mechanical. I just know that it has to be done so I do.

    Will it be sufficient for me to know the essence of the 'paath' or should I understand the and read so much of Bani that runs so lengthy and is contained in so many granths and varans.

    Kindly advise.



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    #1 onkar, May 15, 2007
    Last edited: May 15, 2007
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  3. GuruPyaara

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    onkar ji, welcome to the forum.

    I read both of your new posts and whatever my understanding is, the answer to your question in this post lies right there in your other post under poster-Meditation on God
    if you love Bani, you will always find time :)
     
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  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Onkar ji

    Guru Pyaara has it right "if you love Bani, you will always find time."

    Ways to make time when you are a student, work weird hours, or know you are going to have a hectic day. Buy a Nitnem that is small enough to carry in a knap-sack or briefcase (everything is together in one place). Xerox pages that you will want to read at a particular time - all of anand Sahib for example-- so you can just take it out of your pocket and read it and chant softly in a quiet place where you won't be bothered. Put all your banis on an i-pod. Listen and read on the train, bus, etc. You won't be able to chant but are totally protected from distraction because of the earbuds.

    Best of all organize your day around banis, which is better than not doing them at all when your schedule is too crazy. Amrit vela is always recommended but isn't always possible.

    Remember this mantra - Banis Bring Bliss. All craziness will subside. You will smile more often without realizing you are smiling.
     
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  5. navroopsingh

    navroopsingh
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    This is a brilliant excerpt from wikipedia's article on Guru Gar Rai.

    Recitation of Gurbani
    One day the Sikhs asked the Guru whether those who read the Gurus' hymns without understanding them derived any spiritual advantage from it. The Guru gave no reply at the time, and next morning went hunting. En route, the Guru came across a broken pot which had held butter. The rays of the sun were melting the butter on the broken pot fragments. The Guru took one of these fragments in his hand and said, "Look my Sikhs, broken pot shards - when they are heated, the butter that adhered to them readily melts. As the grease adheres to the potshards, so to do the Gurus' hymns to the hearts of his Sikhs. At the hour of death the Gurus' instruction shall assuredly bear fruit. Whether understood or not, it has within it the seed of salvation. Perfume still clings to a broken vase." The meaning of the parable is that whoseoever daily reads the Gurus shabads shall assuredly obtain peace. And even though he may not fully understand them, God will undoubtedly assist him.
    Guru Ram Das has said: "The Word is the Guru, and the Guru in the Word, and in the Word is the essence of ambrosia."

    Guru Har Rai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Hope that helps!
     
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  6. onkar

    onkar
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    Thank you Dear Brothers,

    i am 22+,.did my engg and am now in job and want to study further and do my M.tech and doctorate from Uk. May be I settle there or go to US. I do not have parents so it shall be my own decision.I am quite good at studies..almost the through out a topper since my schooling ,studious type ,seriouis, non mixing and a introvert type, I am not sure if I shall be able to keep my hairs there as my cousins have almost become hindu/mona-sikhs. they have even removed the hairs and even changed their nick names .They say it makes thier life easier.But I am sticking to my mechanical routine of 'paath'.I am not sure if I will like to wear hair/turban that I have receontly started wearing.It sometiomes make me think that i look funny.Kindly let me be excused for offensive language but my other sikh coleagues have also removed their turbans and also do not do any paath etc.
     
  7. navroopsingh

    navroopsingh
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    I would advise you to remember that your actions should not be based on other people's. If your cousins have removed their hair, and other colleagues have, that doesn't mean that they are doing the right thing. A sikh has a distinct appearance because he should be distinguishable amongst thousands. By this, one will know that if they are in trouble and need help, they can go to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's "children" for aid. I, myself, am merely 17 years old and wouldn't consider myself an expert on anything but I would recommend coming to Canada. As I have seen, there are thousands of sikh, in apperance and sometimes actions, but also many monay. I can see you are from India and it seems the people there are beginning to lose sikhi. But here in Canada, I find that sikhism(when practiced) is pure

    It all also depends on the sangat you are in. If you live around people with cut hair, you MAY do the same. But if you are around people who are perhaps amridthari, then you may realize that we have been given a chance to attain salvation and that we should take it as it is more important than anything in life. Often I will sit here and do Simran instead of homework due to my permanent longing to break away from the life cycles but I then remember I need to make money and have a powerful job for the wellbeing of the people of the Earth and do my part in Vand Ke Chako.

    I guess I started rambling on but I guess you see the essence of what I'm trying to say. Hopefully someone else, with more experience, can help you more.
     
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  8. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Onkar ji,

    most welcome to the forum.
    me neech humbly like to add a few words.

    Onkar ji, for a topper like yourself, Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has 1433 pages(that too in big print), a regular higher study book is usaually 1000 to 2000+ page ensamble in such tiny print. i dont think it can be a problem for such a briliant person like yourself to read and follow Gurbani. A regular students reads 6/7 big books + many more other references in one summester, just think that there is something MORE IMPORTANT to learn, that's all. and students do get break time, dont they, i hope they do in uk!!!!!! As you are not bound to any time limit for learning Dhan Dhan GurBani.

    :) just a suggestion from me neech :)

    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  9. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and Onkar Jee!

    Endless words and thus Sansaar are built with the help of few letters. The true Guru suggests the combination of two letters, that also to transcend all and reach ONE.
    I wonder why the Gurus never suggested to read and understand Scriptures.


    Balbir Singh
     
  10. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Sadh Sangat Ji,

    Guru ji tell us again and again- READ, CONTEMPLATE, FOLLOW THE TRUTH, and also tells us about what is written in the scriptures (that there is nothing else true BUT THE 'NAAM').
    and that too we are told to do with true love, unshakable faith and 100% humility. APNI MAT TYAAG KE, GURU DI MAT GRAHAN KARO, GURSIKH brothers and sisters.




    jqu pwhwrw DIrju suinAwru ]
    Ahrix miq vydu hQIAwru ]
    Bau Klw Agin qp qwau ]
    BWfw Bwau AMimRqu iqqu Fwil ]
    GVIAY sbdu scI tkswl ]
    ijn kau ndir krmu iqn kwr ]
    nwnk ndrI ndir inhwl ]




    swm khY syqMbru suAwmI sc mih AwCY swic rhy ] sBu ko sic smwvY ]
    irgu khY rihAw BrpUir ]
    rwm nwmu dyvw mih sUru ]
    nwie lieAY prwCq jwih ]
    nwnk qau moKMqru pwih ]
    juj mih joir ClI cMdRwvil kwn@ ik®snu jwdmu BieAw ]
    pwrjwqu gopI lY AwieAw ibMdRwbn mih rMgu kIAw ]
    kil mih bydu AQrbxu hUAw nwau KudweI Alhu BieAw ]
    nIl bsqR ly kpVy pihry qurk pTwxI Amlu kIAw ]
    cwry vyd hoey sicAwr ]
    pVih guxih iqn@ cwr vIcwr ]
    Bwau Bgiq kir nIcu sdwey ] qau nwnk moKMqru pwey ]


    forgive me please
     
  11. ekmusafir_ajnabi

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
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    Onkar ji,

    I thing Navroop Singh has given you a very valuable advice. You are, the Company you keep.

    As Surinder ji has mentioned "READ, CONTEMPLATE, FOLLOW THE TRUTH".Read Bani and Understand it. Quality is important than quantity. You are young there is plenty of time. To read without understanding/contemplating? It is contemplation that will draw you closer to the Gurus. Alongside Bani also read the history of our Gurus, their lives and contribution to society. What kind of people they came across. When the Bani was recited and in which circumstances. This will assist you in understanding the context it was recited in and hence help you understand it better. Navroop Singh's example is good but you are an educated person. Guru ji were responding to simple minded people.

    Your destiny will dictate where you go. Guru ji will guide you.

    Good Luck with your journey.
     
  12. luv4u

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    Hello Onkar ji,
    Congratulations for managiong yourself. Do not think that you have no parents. He is father of all of us. Kindly complete your studies and concentrate on keeping your schedules of 'Paath'. When you are thru your examinations you may get enough time to understand Gurbani. Right noe as told by other friends please cautious of your company. Why do not you seek admission in IITs in India.These are very valuable even in US. Any Mtech from IIT will be worth 70/80 K USd. may be in touch with me for further guidance.
    All the luck
     
  13. roopk

    roopk
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    I think the urge to know Gurmatand Gurbani comes with time. no one thrust upon other which some one cannot do or is not willing to do. Onkar ji will also get some inspiration some time when he grows up.
     
  14. pritpal_singh

    pritpal_singh India
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    WJKK WJKF,

    AS GURBANI SUGGESTS………..

    BASED ON YOUR KARMA OF PREVIOUS LIVES, YOUR DESTINY FOR THIS PRESENT LIFE IS EMBOSSED ON TO YOUR SOUL EVEN BEFORE YOU ARE BORN. YOU ARRIVE IN THIS WORLD LOADED WITH THE DESTINY BLESSED TO YOUR SOUL, AND DO LIKEWISE. NO POWER ON THIS EARTH CAN CHANGE YOUR DESTINY BUT THE SUPREME LORD. WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO ACHIEVE’S HIS LOVE IS ANOTHER TOPIC ALL TOGETHER.

    IF YOU ARE DESTINED TO FOLLOW THE RIGHT PATH OF LIFE, THEN YOU WILL BE GRANTED SUCH IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES (AS NAVROOP SINGHJI SUGGESTS) LIKE THE RIGHT FAMILY, THE RIGHT FRIENDS, THE RIGHT RELATIVES ETC. BELIEVE ME IN TODAY’S WORLD BEING BORN IN A GURSIKH FAMILY IS INDICATION ENOUGH THAT YOU HAVE BEEN GRANTED THE RIGHT PATH OF LIFE, BECAUSE GURU NANAK’S RELIGION IS THE MOST ASSURED, UNSOPHISTICATED AND SIMPLEST PATH TOWARDS THE ATTAINING OF LIFE’S GOAL (BECOMING ONE WITH THE SUPREME BEING). YOU CAN’T IMAGINE HOW LUCKY YOU ARE TO BE BORN A SIKH.

    VICE-VERSA IF YOU ARE DESTINED TO BE DUMPED, THEN ALL THROUGHOUT YOUR LIFE YOU SHALL DO ONLY BAD DEEDS AND NOT EVEN REGRET THEM. IF YOU MEET SUCH PEOPLE (AND BELIEVE ME THEY ARE APLENTY) GET THE HELL AWAY FROM THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

    COMING BACK TO ONKAR SINGJI’S UNIVERSAL PROBLEM OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH TIME TO STUDY THE SGGS, AND THUS NOT BEEN ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF WHAT HE IS RECITING (DOING PATH MECHANICALLY)………………..

    THE TERM “MECHANICALLY” SUGGESTS BOREDOM AND MELANCHOLY. AS IF ONE IS JUST GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS, WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT ALL THIS PATH RECITING SHALL LEAD UP TO.

    NOW LET ME TELL YOU WHAT GURBANI HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS MATTER – “GAAVIYE SUNIYE MAAN RAKHIYE BHAV” I.E RECITING THE BANI, LISTENING TO IT ATTENTIVELY AND BY UNDERSTANDING IT TRYING TO SHAPE YOUR LIFE ACCORDING TO THE GURU’S TEACHINGS. HERE I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION THAT ALL THE BHAGATS SITTING INSIDE THE SGGS ARE ALL ILLETERATE AS THEY ARE MOSTLY OF LOWER CASTE AND IN THOSE TIMES, THE LOWER CASTES WERE PROHIBITED FROM EDUCATION OF ANY SORT. ALL OF THEM ACHIEVED GOD BY MEDITATING ON THE NAAM WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT MEANT, AND THE HOLY WORDS THAT WERE UTTERED BY THEM (WHICH ARE INSCRIBED IN THE SGGS) ARE THE WORDS OF GOD HIMSELF, BECAUSE THAT STATE OF MIND IS IN TUNE WITH PARAMAATMA HIMSELF, AND HE SPEAKS THROUGH THEM.

    THE SGGS STRESSES ON LISTENING TO THE BANI UNLIKE OTHER RELIGIONS LIKE HINDUISM WHICH STRESS ON RECITING AND SINGING THE MANTRAS.

    WHY HAS SO MUCH STRESS BEEN LAID ON LISTENING ? BECAUSE OUR SOUL THROUGH THE AGES HAS BEEN GOING BLAH,BLAH………… IT HAS MADE IT A HABIT OF SPEAKING, SPEAKING AND ONLY SPEAKING. IT NEVER LISTENS BECAUSE IT’S HAUGTINESS (AAHANKAR) PREVENTS IT FROM DOING SO. ONCE YOU LET GO OF YOUR AAHANKAR, THE PROCESS OF LISTENING AUTOMATICALLY TICKS. WHEN YOU ACHIEVE SUCH A STATE, AND WHEN DURING NAAM-SIMRAN YOU ACTUALLY LISTEN TO EACH UTTERANCE………….. THIS IS WHEN THE PROCESS OF SPIRITUAL CLEANSING STARTS.

    SO INSTEAD OF TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE BANI, TRY TO LISTEN TO THE PATH YOU RECITE AND THE NAAM-SIMRAN YOU DO. THAT WILL MAKE THINGS HAPPEN FOR YOU.


     
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  15. roopk

    roopk
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    yes, the above seems fine.
     
  16. harman deep

    harman deep
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    With having too much intense quality to know about the thing open the way how we can have a knowledge about the thing. as a child does not know how to speak but he learn to speak and understand.So with a strong will to real meanings of path it's only proper way.
    As a child understand the language of his father mother like that our love devotion to Guru can make us to realize the essence of gurbani. Do your with deep love and try to understand what is coming out. Only study of meaning can not help you much but it can show some initial steps.
    Which time you have recite Gurbani though it may be one Shbad.After some time you will have so much realization of Gurbani. Live in the sangat of those who recite gurbani it also help you to know more.
     
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  17. findingmyway

    findingmyway
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    I once heard katha from a very wise man from Thailand. One thing he said struck me hard and has remained with me since:

    Imagine your grandfather. You put him in a corner and tell him I will bow to you and give you nice clothes but will not listen to you. So you just sit there and look good and give me blessings but don't expect me to follow the advice you give me. That is how we are treating our Guru, the Guru Granth Sahib Ji!

    Without understanding and following the writings of Gurbani, we will struggle to lead a Gursikh life. Try and read even 1 pauri a day slowly and with translations and slowly the understanding will come. There are many excellent resources around such as www.srigranth.org where you can simultaneously show English translation and Prof Sahib Singh's teeka. Prof Sahib Singh explains things word by word in simple Panjabi so it gives a much better understanding than English. There are many vichaar recordings out there. Perhaps start with japji and Asa Ki Vaar as both contain such fundamental concepts they are vital pieces of work. Even after many months I'm still studying them! However, if reciting paath without understanding gives you peace then don't stop. But slowly understand in addition. I personally find my mind wanders when I don't understand.

    The Guru's gave us simplified language and encouraged the common man to learn for him/herself so that we won't be exploited by "religious men". Unfortunately this practice is creeping back, for example hiring paathis to do akhand paath's rather than taking part yourself. That is exactly what Guru Nanak Dev Ji didn't want. There are a number of shabads in Gurbani which encourage understanding rather than parrot fashion recital (though that is a good start so don't stop paath completely), and I'll attempt to share some with you.

    Awsw mhlw 1 ]
    lyK AsMK iliK iliK mwnu ]
    min mwinAY scu suriq vKwnu ]
    kQnI bdnI piV piV Bwru ]
    lyK AsMK AlyKu Apwru ]1]
    AYsw swcw qUM eyko jwxu ]
    jMmxu mrxw hukmu pCwxu ]1] rhwau ]
    aasaa mehalaa 1 ||
    laekh asa(n)kh likh likh maan ||
    man maaniai sach surath vakhaan ||
    kathhanee badhanee parr parr bhaar ||
    laekh asa(n)kh alaekh apaar ||1||
    aisaa saachaa thoo(n) eaeko jaan ||
    ja(n)man maranaa hukam pashhaan ||1|| rehaao ||

    There are so many writings yet just reading or writing again and again is useless unless we understand the Truth and accept his will (p412)


    mÚ 1 ]
    piV pusqk sMiDAw bwdM ]
    isl pUjis bgul smwDM ]
    muiK JUT ibBUKx swrM ]
    qRYpwl iqhwl ibcwrM ]
    gil mwlw iqlku illwtM ]
    duie DoqI bsqR kpwtM ]
    jy jwxis bRhmM krmM ]
    siB Pokt inscau krmM ]
    khu nwnk inhcau iDAwvY ]
    ivxu siqgur vwt n pwvY ]2]
    ma 1 ||
    parr pusathak sa(n)dhhiaa baadha(n) ||
    sil poojas bagul samaadhha(n) ||
    mukh jhoot(h) bibhookhan saara(n) ||
    thraipaal thihaal bichaara(n) ||
    gal maalaa thilak lilaatta(n) ||
    dhue dhhothee basathr kapaatta(n) ||
    jae jaanas brehama(n) karama(n) ||
    sabh fokatt nisacho karama(n) ||
    kahu naanak nihacho dhhiaavai ||
    vin sathigur vaatt n paavai ||2||

    This shabad is attacking false rituals that do not bring people closer to God but increase falsehood. In the last of rituals is mentioned reciting Gayatri 3 times a day. If your actions go against the essence of the prayer what have you learnt? Anyone who understands God knows these rituals are false (p 470)

    piV piV pMifq joqkI vwd krih bIcwru ]
    miq buiD BvI n buJeI AMqir loB ivkwru ]
    lK caurwsIh Brmdy BRim BRim hoie KuAwru ]
    pUrib iliKAw kmwvxw koie n mytxhwru ]3]
    sqgur kI syvw gwKVI isru dIjY Awpu gvwie ]
    sbid imlih qw hir imlY syvw pvY sB Qwie ]
    pwris prisAY pwrsu hoie joqI joiq smwie ]
    ijn kau pUrib iliKAw iqn sqguru imilAw Awie ]4]
    parr parr pa(n)ddith jothakee vaadh karehi beechaar ||
    math budhh bhavee n bujhee a(n)thar lobh vikaar ||
    lakh chouraaseeh bharamadhae bhram bhram hoe khuaar ||
    poorab likhiaa kamaavanaa koe n maettanehaar ||3||
    sathagur kee saevaa gaakharree sir dheejai aap gavaae ||
    sabadh milehi thaa har milai saevaa pavai sabh thhaae ||
    paaras parasiai paaras hoe jothee joth samaae ||
    jin ko poorab likhiaa thin sathagur miliaa aae ||4||

    Pandits, religious scholars and asrologers read their textx and argue about them but they don't UNDERSTAND as they have too much greed and corruption. They remain confused through 8.4million lives. To join with God you must experience the Guru. This can only be done by becoming selfless and understanding the Shabad (p27)

    isrIrwgu mhlw 1 Gru 5 ]
    ACl ClweI nh ClY nh Gwau ktwrw kir skY ]
    ijau swihbu rwKY iqau rhY iesu loBI kw jIau tl plY ]1]
    ibnu qyl dIvw ikau jlY ]1] rhwau ]
    poQI purwx kmweIAY ] Bau vtI iequ qin pweIAY ]
    scu bUJxu Awix jlweIAY ]2]
    iehu qylu dIvw ieau jlY ]
    kir cwnxu swihb qau imlY ]1] rhwau ]
    iequ qin lwgY bwxIAw ]
    suKu hovY syv kmwxIAw ]
    sB dunIAw Awvx jwxIAw ]3]
    ivic dunIAw syv kmweIAY ]
    qw drgh bYsxu pweIAY ]
    khu nwnk bwh lufweIAY ]4]33]
    sireeraag mehalaa 1 ghar 5 ||
    ashhal shhalaaee neh shhalai neh ghaao kattaaraa kar sakai ||
    jio saahib raakhai thio rehai eis lobhee kaa jeeo ttal palai ||1||
    bin thael dheevaa kio jalai ||1|| rehaao ||
    pothhee puraan kamaaeeai || bho vattee eith than paaeeai ||
    sach boojhan aan jalaaeeai ||2||
    eihu thael dheevaa eio jalai ||
    kar chaanan saahib tho milai ||1|| rehaao ||
    eith than laagai baaneeaa ||
    sukh hovai saev kamaaneeaa ||
    sabh dhuneeaa aavan jaaneeaa ||3||
    vich dhuneeaa saev kamaaeeai ||
    thaa dharageh baisan paaeeai ||
    kahu naanak baah luddaaeeai ||4||33||

    This is a stunning shabad about how the undeceivable cannot be deceived. It talks about how we should use the Shabad as the oil for a candle and our faith should be the wick. Without understanding the truth how can the candle be lit? Only when lit can we meet Waheguru. The body that does seva is forever in peace and you will find joy. So without understanding the shabad, we would not know the instructions to do seva and why it is so important! (p25)


    I could go on but I'm sure you're tired. Anyone who has made it this far, well done! I feel understanding is important as otherwise we will be deceived rather than becoming undeceivable! There is so much misinformation out there and so many bad influences, so unless you know what gurbani tells you then how can you protect yourself from that by doing the right thing? There is a reason we're called Sikhs (learners) and not Hindus (no offence to Hindus but its a different way of thinking).

    If I have made any mistakes in my interpretations please correct me. I am still learning!
    Jasleen Kaur :shykudi:


     
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  18. raminder40

    raminder40
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    Dear Onkar ji,

    I appriciate your acedemic achievments and frank description about yourself.But why are you so confused about your sikhi status.Its just your mindset which needs to be more strong.You are clear about going abroad for your future but not clear about maintaining sikhi?

    As a few learned forum members have suggested,reading bani is more easier than your volumunous books and thesis of your degree course,everything is achieved step-by-step.You never finished your BTech books in std nursery....you graduated slowly and slowly.The same applies to bani also.Start with japji saheb....to panj bani....to other banis as per your convinience...develop patience and liking...rest Guru will take care of.

    But as per me the only thing you need is clear and strong thought process....not a confused head.

    All d best.
     
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  19. findingmyway

    findingmyway
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    Actually the Guru's were highly educated! Guru Nanak Dev Ji studied many religious texts and languages as a boy. On his travels he would have met people from all walks of life and I'm sure been keen to learn from them as much as to teach. Understanding people puts you in a better position to get your message across! The other Guru's were also educated. Education in those times followed a different pattern to our modern day schools and was often focussed around religion. The Guru's understanding however, stretched beyond what was taught to them.

    Many of the other writers of bani would also had education from religious teachers or schools at the time otherwise they would not have reached their respected positions.
     
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  20. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    ONKAR Ji.
    Gurbaani is for Reading,for Listening and for Singing.Understandind will be given by SATi GURu Ji and this can happen at any time of Reading ,Listening or Singing. So remain yourselfconnected with Gurbaani all the times.
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     

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