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Leisure Is Imagination an Illusion or Part of Reality?

Discussion in 'Business, Lifestyle & Leisure' started by Astroboy, Jul 2, 2011.

  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    There's a saying, "You can't imagine anything unless there is a reality to it."

    It seems to be a paradox. Can you make any sense out of it?


    Link removed. It moves traffic away from Sikh Philosophy Network by requiring a membership to be able to view the article that motivated the thread. spnadmin
     
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  3. Ambarsaria

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    Astroboy ji every reality is part of some imagination but not every imagination becomes a reality. Pretty straightforward I think. I don't think it is a paradox. It just is not a total symmetrical duality.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  4. Annie

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    I never heard that saying, Astroboy ji, but I can tell you this: thoughts are more powerful than a lot of people think.

    For example, there is simran. People can come to understand things in a way that defies conventional science. Also people tend to attract things that they think about a lot, whether good or bad. (So make sure you concentrate on good things.) And there is a saying somewhere in the Christian Bible to the effect that if you think of doing something, then you have already done it.
     
  5. Archived_Member16

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    Reality Versus Imagination and Illusion

    By Remez Sasson

    The five senses make us feel that the world is real. Seeing the solidity of the objects around us, feeling the impact of the senses, it is hard to deny the validity of what we see. Everything looks real, and therfore, we never stop to question this reality.

    The mind is attached to the five senses and accepts everything as real without questioning. When we bump into a table or a wall, and we feel pain, it is difficult to say that we are imagining it. When we see with our eyes, hear sounds, smell, or when we feel heat or coldness, we accept these sense impressions as real.

    Some say that the world is an illusion, Maya in Eastern terminology. Can we accept this when everything looks so real? Can we regard the world as imagination?

    We need the five senses and the mind to be conscious of the world, which means that the world is dependent on them. Without the senses and the mind, the world does not exist for us.

    If we say that a real thing is something that always exists, with no gaps, then the outside world is not real. There are times besides sleep, when we are so busy that we are not conscious of what is going on around us. When there are no sensory sensations, as while being in a floating tank, or when in deep meditation, we are still conscious, but not of the world. This means that sometimes we are conscious of the world, and sometimes we are not.

    After we wake up from sleep, or get out of deep meditation and return to ordinary consciousness, we feel that there was a gap in our consciousness of the outside world. There was no world at that time. If we try to pay attention to our consciousness, we will come to the conclusion that the outside world comes and goes, while the awareness of our inner consciousness never wavers.

    The world exists for us only when the senses and mind are directed towards it, and ceases to exist for us when we silence the senses and the mind. During deep sleep, we do not experience the world because the senses are not active. Can you prove the reality of the world while you are deeply asleep? After you wake up from sleep, other people might tell you that the world existed, but can you prove that these people existed while you were asleep?

    After waking up, we may invent all kinds of theories to prove the realty of the world. However, these are only mental theories. The fact is that during sleep the world was non-existent for us.

    During sleep dreams seem very real, but upon awakening, we realize that they were just dreams. So it is with this world we call reality. It is possible to wake from it too. Sri Ramana Maharshi, the great Indian sage, has said that the difference between a dream while sleeping and the dream we call wakefulness is only of duration, one short and the other one long.

    Further to the above, each person interprets and relates to other people's behavior, words and attitudes in a different way, according to the contents of his subconscious mind. No one's world is like another. Again, we see the illusion at work. A world is created, based on our interpretation of what we see, hear, and perceive through the five senses.

    Mind and thoughts create the world

    Thoughts arise in the mind, and we become aware of them. The same thoughts tend to arise time and again. If we let this process continue, it goes on incessantly. These thoughts make us expect, behave, talk and act in a certain personalized way, and thus cause the people we come in contact with, to treat us and relate to us in a certain manner.

    We usually continue with the same way of thinking, and live the same kind of life each day, whether we like it or not. These thoughts shape our circumstances and relationships. It is like watching the same movie repeatedly. If we want to watch a different movie, we have to change the reel or cassette. This happens by changing our thoughts. This is how creative visualization works, and there is nothing supernatural about this.

    The world we experience and the life we live, are the reflections of our thoughts. The mind creates a world of illusion. By changing our thoughts, we change the illusion and experience a different reality. We do not create a world, only an illusion that looks real. No unusual power is involved here. We are living in Maya and are changing the Maya.

    When we are able to still the mind and the senses, our consciousness seems to shift into a new dimension. Actually, it is there all the time, only that the mind makes us think otherwise. When there are no thoughts in the mind, the world we know and believe is real, loses its reality. We become conscious of the world beyond the mind and illusions.

    Waking up from illusion

    We can wake up completely, understand, and become conscious of the illusion of Maya, and live, as we really are, as pure, formless, beginning-less and endless consciousness. Due to illusion, it seems as if we are all separated, having individual selves and each living a different life. Even when we wake up from Maya, its play may go on. We continue to see and experience it, yet it is of no concern to us anymore. Outwardly, we may continue to live our life in the same manner, but we are really awake.

    It is like a movie show. A person who is watching a movie, often gets so involved with the characters and with what is happenning on the screen. He becomes happy or sad with the heroes, gets depressed, shouts or laughs.

    If at a particular moment he decides to stop watching the screen and manages to withdraw his attention from the movie, he gets snapped out of the illusion the movie creates. The projecting machine will go on projecting images on the screen, but he knows that it is only light projected through the film onto the screen. What is seen on the screen is not real, but yet it is there. He may watch the movie, or he may decide to close his eyes and ears and stop looking at the screen.

    Have you ever watched a movie, when at some point the reel got stuck or there was a power failure? What happens to you when you watch an interesting, absorbing film on the television and then suddenly there are commercials? You are snapped out of the illusion to the world around you. When you are sleeping and dreaming, and someone wakes you up, you feel thrown out of one world to a different one. It is the same in the life we call reality. It is possible to wake up from it.

    One who has managed to still his mind and senses through proper training, may go on living and acting in the world like the person in the cinema hall, who is no longer interested in the movie. He learns how to get out of the illusion and wake up. If he is no more a slave to illusion and dreams, he is free. He sees everything as it really is. Contrary to what you might think, such a person actsions in his daily life in a better way, is stronger, happier, very practical and free from worry.

    In the East, metaphors are used in order to demonstrate what illusion is in relation to Reality. A jewel made of gold may be called an earring or a necklace, but actually it is only gold. Before it became a jewel, and after it is melted it is only gold. Clay is shaped into vessels such as plates, cups, or vases, but they are only clay.

    Due to convenience of speech, we call these objects made of gold or clay by many names, but they are really only clay or gold. Everything in existence is "made" from the Original Substance, and is not a "real" thing standing by itself, exactly as in the above examples. Nothing has a reality of its own.

    A mirage is not real, but yet we see it. Events taking place while dreaming are not real. However, we experience them during the dream as reality. A hologram looks like 3D, while it is actually flat.

    In the East, one of the metaphors of explaining reality and illusion is that of the rope and the snake. In the dark we may see a rope and mistake it for a snake. When there is enough light we realize that it was only a rope, and the snake disappears. It is only due to some kind of illusion that we see a world. Everything is in the mind.

    source: http://www.successconsciousness.com/index_000014.htm
     
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  6. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Annie ji isn't it equivalent to or called "self fulfilling prophecy".

    There is also common rule in driving that,


    • "you end up where you are looking"
    Many serious accident have happened due to this.

    There is also a corollary to this in that,

    • "you should look to where you want to go"
    This is particularly important during winter driving in Canada when you lose control or slip.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  7. Annie

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    Ambarsaria ji,

    Haha, I suppose you're right. Since we're on the subject, I could mention that often the difference between people with bad luck, and people with good luck, is that some choose to pay attention to the bad more, and some choose to pay attention to the good more.
     
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  8. Astroboy

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    Would you agree with this view - Imagination is the 'beta' version of reality. we test it in our imagination and 'intend' it into reality.
     
  9. Astroboy

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    You mean like....Everything starts with an idea ...??? Please expand.
     
  10. Annie

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    Astroboy ji,

    I'm sorry it took me so long to answer your question. This concept is a bit abstract to me, so I had to think how to put it into words. Hope this makes sense.

    We have both a body, and a soul/mind. Just as our bodies are able to do action and make things happen, our soul or mind is capable of emitting a subtle but very real energy that can make subtle things happen. For example, some cultures have a concept called the "evil eye." It means that if someone is jealous or malevolent in some way, they can actually do harm to another person with those negative thoughts. Another example, have you ever felt you were being watched or thought about? Or have you stared at someone, and they turned around to look at you, almost as if you had physically tapped them on the shoulder? (Try it some time.) Maybe you get a good or bad feeling from a person in a crowd, or your mother knows when you are having trouble before she even sees you. All of these are your spirit or mind at work. The body and spirit/mind usually work together, but sometimes may be independent. It may be, but is not always, a cause and effect situation.
     
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  11. Astroboy

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    In some instances it is said, "Yes Imagination is part of Reality.
    Taking an example of an artist. The first thought triggers the mind to imagine an inner scene and then the artist begins to transfer that image onto the canvas until the full image is visible in complete form for all to see. Therefore, we are actually seeing the inner mind and feeling based imagination of the artist on canvas.
     
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  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    In my opinion, if something can be imagined, it can also be manifested.
     
  13. Ambarsaria

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    While generally it may be true in many cases, it cannot be in all. Hence it fails the test of rigor.

    The following story is quite old and I am paraphrasing the logical message

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  14. BhagatSingh

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    I think the question could be phrased better.

    Both imagination and reality are models in our brains. The models get tested all the time as we go about our day. Anything from that model that passes the test, gets labelled reality. Anything that doesn't, we call imagination.

    According to Eastern Philosophy, both are illusions. The Truth which underlies reality and imagination is that part of us which sees the illusion, which sees both the imagination and reality. This has no form. It maybe called consciousness, soul, jyot, God, Nirgun etc.

    And of course, everything stated here about the illusion is also an illusion. *slowly waves open hands side to side*

    ;)
     
  15. Astroboy

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    Imagination is real, its contents are not real until actually experienced..
    i can imagine winning the lottery, i just can't spend the money until it 'actually' happens..
     
  16. BhagatSingh

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    Yes I agree with you. Imagination is just as real as... real.
     
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  17. Astroboy

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    The sense I make is that imagination is our creative capacity, and there is most certainly reality to that.

    As for the content of imagination, some say and I agree... it's a combining of elements from our memories, often unconscious, in a new and fresh way.
     
  18. Ambarsaria

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    Astroboy ji on "Lottery". It is a violation of the SRM and is as bad as use of "Cannabis, Alcohol, Poppy Husks, Cocaine" and these are all classed as violations of "Rehat" and not "Kurehats". We are all "Tankayieh" if we violate any of the "Rehats" in SRM. I did not win the "Lottery" on Saturday, it even was a big prize ;(.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  19. aristotle

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    Imagination is basically a metaphysical entity. Its dimensions extend well beyond the physical. The 'MANu' or the subconscious itself is nothing but a meeting point of 'Sankalps'(thoughts) and 'Vikalps'(counter-thoughts). Imagination cannot be demonstrated by the physical methods, because its existence is not physical. Yet, the manifestations of imagination can be demonstrated physically, for an instance, during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep, the brain waves show a characteristic pattern and this coincides with the duration of dreaming during sleep. Imagination and dreaming have been demonstrated to play a direct role in influencing the physical potentials of an individual.
    Imagination is an illusion or a non-reality of course, but it directly influences reality, and that is what makes it important!
     
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  20. spnadmin

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    aristotle ji

    To help me and other members of the readership, please just give us a short description of how sleep works, defining terms such as REM, and also Vikalps and Sankalps, which I am not certain about. Nothing elaborate, but simple and in layman's terms. I know it is hard sometimes to do that with technical information. Thanks.
     
  21. aristotle

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    I know it can be quite tricky deciphering technical descriptions. Actually, we measure the brain activity by the changes in the electrical potentials by plotting it on graph paper or virtual screen known as 'Electroencephalograph'(EEG). The normal pattern of brain waves in an awake person is non-synchronized i.e. not having a definite fine pattern as a lot of brain activity is going on. As soon as a person closes his/her eyes for sleeping, NREM (Non Rapid Eye Movement) sleep occurs, the brain waves become calm as the brain activity recedes. No dreaming occurs during this phase and the person can be easily aroused from sleep. This is interrupted by REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep spanning 90-120- minutes and occurring about four-five times during a normal sleep. This is characterized by brain wave pattern resembling that of an awake person and dreaming occurs here. Arousal is difficult.This becomes dominant towards morning (That's why, morning dreams are easily remembered).

    This demonstrates that a lot of brain activity is taking place during dreaming, it is a direct product of our latent imagination. It is a myth that dreaming has something to do with omens or signaling future events, it is a normal happening in the human brain!

    For more information, REM sleep - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement_sleep
    NREM sleep - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NREM

    About the Sankalps and Vikalps, they are a direct product of our 'HouMaey.' I simple terms, Sankalp signifies the individualistic ego or 'I'. Vikalp signifies attachment to the material world or 'My'/'Mine'.
     
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