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Is God Fond Of Long Hair And Turbans ?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Seeker2013, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    The ancient rishis (sages) wore it, the acharyas wore it, the brahma, vishnu and shiva wore it, all the 33 crore demi-gods wore it, the prophets of abrahamic religions wore it , the sikh gurus wore it, the bhagats wore it , everyone wore long hair !
    And come to think of it , one of god's name is 'keshav' (means ' with long hair' )

    Also turbans have been popular as well , Krishna wore it, Muhammad wore it, Zoroaster wore it . Sikh gurus wore it.
    So seems like god is fond of turbans as well !

    So is god really fond of long hair and turbans ? Also do we get less of his love if we don't keep long hairs and turban than someone who does keep !??

    these are some serious questions of life
     
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  3. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Sat Sri Akaal

    From my POV, no. Maybe God likes fur - animals has more fur on their bodies than humans do hair. Why did we luck out?

    Of all things in the entire universe, why would the Ik Onkar be so preoccupied with one race amongst billions?

    But it is a cool observation on human behaviour and possibly a connection between 'long hair' and 'spirituality'. Whether that connection is causative or correlative, I don't know. But I do think it's very anthropocentric to think that God has a particular penchant for long hair.

    Turbans were/are a cultural item of clothing in the region where Sikhi sprung up. It's no surprise that Guru Sahib harnessed it. What would be surprising, is if he harnessed a form of dress existing elsewhere in the world that they didn't otherwise know about, which has the same meaning.

    Long hair and turban are part of the Sikh uniform and discipline. I don't believe it's any more complicated or mystical than that.
     
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  4. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    so will god still love me if I removed my long hair and turban?
     
  5. Ishna

    Ishna
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    I can't speak for God, but Kabeer Ji has a shalok from panna 1365:

    ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ
    कबीर प्रीति इक सिउ कीए आन दुबिधा जाइ ॥
    Kabīr parīṯ ik si▫o kī▫e ān ḏubiḏẖā jā▫e.
    Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

    ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
    भावै लांबे केस करु भावै घररि मुडाइ ॥२५॥
    Bẖāvai lāʼnbe kes kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā▫e. ||25||
    You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
     
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  6. Joginder Singh Foley

    Joginder Singh Foley United Kingdom
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    See Samson in the christian bible lost all his strength when her was cut off and plenty of hippies and Metalheads manage just fine with long hair :winkingsingh:
     
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  7. Brother Onam

    Brother Onam United States
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    I think it's less a question of Har loving long hair and turbans and more a question of recognizing the sacredness. At the heart of most troubles on this Earth is what the author Jerry Mander called 'The Absence of the Sacred'; the forgetting the matchless preciousness of this holy world. So we go about taking things for granted, spoiling, polluting, destroying or wasting things because we view them as mundane. If we were really living a holy life, we would forever be in a spirit of gratitude and cherishing, the trees, peoples, water, seasons, birds, as being Har Har.

    ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ
    in all worlds, He is the Perfect Cherisher.

    ਬਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਪਰਬਤਿ ਹੈ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ
    In the forests, fields and mountains, He is the Supreme Lord God.

    ਜੈਸੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਤੈਸਾ ਕਰਮੁ
    As He orders, so do His creatures act.

    ਪਉਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੈਸੰਤਰ ਮਾਹਿ
    He permeates the winds and the waters.

    ਚਾਰਿ ਕੁੰਟ ਦਹ ਦਿਸੇ ਸਮਾਹਿ
    He is pervading in the four corners and in the ten directions.

    (SGGS pg.294)
    In light of that, I think that if we recognize that Waheguru has created humans in a perfect model. We are free to take it for granted, neglect it, pollute it, corrupt it, or we may treasure it as an amazing blessing and thus care for it as a creation of the Lord of Love. To me, that would mean cherishing the kesh, avoiding meat and artificial foods, plastic wigs and hair-dye, keeping the body strong and toned, trying to keep the brain tuned into positive inputs, and moving in the midst of conscious, spiritually-minded people (Sat Sangat), etc, i.e. recognizing the Sacred in ourselves and our Creation.
     
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  8. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    but one could say nails are a part of body as well . then why cut it. And if you're going to say that cutting nail is for practical reasons, can't we say same for hair ?
     
  9. ActsOfGod

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    Sikhi is all-inclusive, so everyone is welcome. Nobody is an outsider, this is the teaching from Guru Sahib.

    At the same time, the saroop is something that comes from a place of love. If you are in a position where you are not feeling it from inside, then it's not worth it to force it upon yourself or anyone else. Because it won't be genuine.

    It is a very vital element of the Sikh identity, because Sikhs stand for something that is unique and distinct. And they don't shy away from that or try to hide it from the world. On the contrary, it is a cause for celebration of their uniqueness and for their commitment to justice.

    There's no need to get into convoluted reasoning or discussion or scientific issues like how it's healthy, etc. It's really quite simple: either you feel it inside you, or you don't. And if you don't, then you need not fear that God will stop loving you if you decide to go for a haircut. Guru Sahib has demonstrated that they loved everyone, they had no hate, no fear, no animosity towards anyone. So you needn't fear the wrath or anger of God or Guru Sahib.

    The Guru's approach is unique and sublime. They are more interested in elevating you rather than what you wear.

    You have spent a long, long time agonizing about your hair and turban. If you don't feel connected to it, maybe it's not right to keep it. You must be true to yourself and listen to your heart. And don't fear, God will still love you.

    In anand Sahib, Guru gives us the idea of what they value and what we should be focusing on:

    ਜੀਅਹੁ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਬਾਹਰਹੁ ਨਿਰਮਲ
    Inwardly pure, and outwardly pure.

    ਬਾਹਰਹੁ
    ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜੀਅਹੁ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਮਾਣੀ
    Those who are outwardly pure and also pure within, through the Guru, perform good deeds.

    ਕੂੜ
    ਕੀ ਸੋਇ ਪਹੁਚੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨਸਾ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ
    Not even an iota of falsehood touches them; their hopes are absorbed in the Truth.

    ਜਨਮੁ
    ਰਤਨੁ ਜਿਨੀ ਖਟਿਆ ਭਲੇ ਸੇ ਵਣਜਾਰੇ
    Those who earn the jewel of this human life, are the most excellent of merchants.

    ਕਹੈ
    ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨ ਮੰਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲੇ ॥੨੦॥
    Says Nanak, those whose minds are pure, abide with the Guru forever. ||20||
     
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  10. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    I feel like god loves me. Some might call me delusional but I feel god personally loves me because at times he responds to me and my prayers. Just recently I prayed for something and it happened. I feel like guru sahib and god takes mercy on me.
    Sometimes when shabad comes "raako raakhanhaar dayaala nanak ghar ke gole" . I feel Guru Nanak dev ji is praying on my behalf .

    Since he has helped me so much in my tough areas of life and I expect help from him in even tougher areas of life, I don't wish to upset him. I don't want him to neglect me.
    "Karvat bhala na karvat teri" (Dagger is better than being neglected by you O lord)

    But at the same time, I feel like I want to try that haircut look once. But in the eyes of god I might become 'akirtghan' (ungrateful) . I don't wish to upset guru sahib and god just like i won't want to upset my parents but at the same time I am having these opposite feelings.

    As someone previously replied on my other thread that if I do something bad with the expectation that he will forgive me if I correct it in future, then I am conspiring .

    I feel like guru and god will punish me if I do what I am talking about
     
  11. Ishna

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    Ji

    The concept of a personal God and Guru that is watching you, taking mercy on you, intervening in the world to change natural laws on your behalf to answer your prayers, where Guru Nanak Sahib Ji exists in some other place praying to God on your behalf (like a Catholic saint, precisely), will naturally have a flip side of being the sort of God and Guru to take offense to your misdeeds and potentially seek to punish you.

    From my understanding and experience of Sikhi, God and Guru is not personal, nor separate, as described above. We have a personal relationship with God-Guru where we can go within and experience It, and then perceive It everywhere, like we are a fish in the ocean, which leads to a Gursikh lifestyle. This concept of God-Guru is like the fish saying the ocean has moved to answer the fish's prayer, or that the ocean will punish the fish for doing the wrong thing.

    A Sikh's mission in life is to learn from Guru Sahib, via Gurbani and personal experience, to take down the veil of ego-separation and cultivate the constant and all-pervading simran of being the fish in the ocean of God-Guru, and eventually realising that the fish is just part of the ocean in the shape of a fish.

    I think a lot of your angst may be due to the landscape of your beliefs. Quite honestly, your description sounds much more Abrahamic than Sikh. If you can sort out your beliefs first, then questions of not only your hair, but your sexuality, will be easier to navigate.
     
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  12. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    That is your right as a human being, if you feel this way, and it brings you comfort, all power to you

    I see you as confused, but then I think you see yourself as confused

    ask yourself this question, is your definition of love someone that grants you your wishes?


    The problem here is that the next time you pray for something and it does not happen, will it cause doubt for this love?
    Purely from a pragmatic point of view, why would god take mercy on a healthy, comfortable young man with two loving parents, over say an orphan dying of starvation in Africa? or the young woman that was raped in India, did the prayers from those have any less validity than yours? The question I would then ask is why? why you?


    What do you think upsets god? cutting hair? drinking alcohol?


    These feelings are normal, and as Admin Kaur has pointed out, your view does come across as slightly Abrahamic, the problem is if you are going to worship god in an Abrahamic fashion, you should really go the whole hog, I am a different Sikh to you, note I do not maintain I am a better SIkh or a truer Sikh, we are just different Sikhs, but I do feel you are attempting to worship as a Sikh but in an Abrahamic fashion. This is nothing new, if you read translations of the SGGS, a lot have Abrahamic leanings, which have done nothing, in my view, to confirm Sikhism as a religion that stands on its own, rather than a clone of Hinduism, Islam or Christianity. Another common statement is that the SGGS contains the best bits of all religions, and Sikhism is a mish mash of concepts from everywhere. This, in my view, does Sikhism a huge disservice as I feel that Sikhism approached the code of living, and the concept of god in a completely different and new way, making god not a deity to be worshipped, but an energy to be absorbed, lived and shared.

    that is no way to live, we are responsible for our own actions, and have to deal with the consequences, do I think goddy gives two hoots because I am as bald as an eagle? or that I refuse to submit to pointless rituals that are embraced by mumblers everywhere? No, I do not, you can be as hairy as you wish, and mumble all you want, but if your actions do not touch the rest of creation in a positive manner, then what is the point?
     
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  13. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    Wise words. I agree and Buddhists are told to shave theirs. I don't think God gives a hoot if s/he is alive.
     
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  14. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    but buddha kept his in a knot on top of his head !
     
  15. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    Thank you for all the replies JI !

    I feel like I should cut my hair because I am gay and everyone has physical needs. gays too.
    but for gay men, because of shaming and stigma, we live our lives underground, forced to actually !
    when I go on the gay apps for sex and dates, i don't want a dastar-dhaari profile picture there.
    Wouldn't want to stain the sikh image, not that there's no gay sardars, but I don't want anyone to laugh on our community and say 'o look , even sardar's gay these days'
     
  16. Ishna

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    I think the exact opposite is the way to go. It's not staining the Sikh image! Its changing society's perceptions. Another Sikh bhaji your age, with the same confusion about Sikhi and homosexuality, feeling unsure, might see your dastar pic and go, "Hey, it's not so bad, I'm not the only one."

    Much more good will come of such a pic, imho.
     
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  17. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    I already know 4-5 sikh keshdhari men who are gay, one of them is so straight-looking and strong you won't believe he's gay !

    I don't know why I feel like I want to cut my hair and feel that feel for once ! But I am afraid I might start liking it and find it tough to come back. Just like how I started trimming my facial hair and now find long mustaches uncomfortable and irritating

    As someone here said, some months ago, if I go away from guru sahib thinking he will accept me back, then I am conspiring . and that a mistake is only when u make it out of lack of awareness that ur making a mistake.

    I feel so torn
     
  18. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    I don't think God gives a damn about keeping hair or shaving yourself bald.
    Some keep their hair a lifetime;
    Some shave their hair a lifetime;
    In the end both go Bald.
    We only need to understand His Hukam and use our own ability to inteprete it.
     
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  19. Seeker2013

    Seeker2013 India
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    but our guru wanted us to keep our hair for some reason, right ?
    not just our guru, most spiritual leaders of world and most of the religions founders kept uncut hair
    I wonder why !
     
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  20. Rajwinder

    Rajwinder United States
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    Just curious and not taking any side .. how u know that god loves u today ?
     
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  21. namritanevaeh

    namritanevaeh Canada
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    I don't think you can say "most"...
     
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