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Is God Female?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Archived_member2, Feb 23, 2005.

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  1. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Satsriakal to all!
    Gurbani explains God is one and begins with Ekonkar. The number 'one' is exclusively used for God.
    God gave birth to all.

    The number 'one' is also used for 'Maaee' who conceived Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh.

    My question is this.

    Is our God female?


    Balbir Singh
     
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  3. BabbarSher

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    God according to sikhism, is neither male, female.

    Male and female are concepts that are more relevant to this physical world not the spirtual realm according to sikhi.

    It is religions that are more material in nature rather than spirtual that insist on classifying God as one or the other.

    Akal Sahai
     
  4. Amarpal

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    Dear Balbir Singh Ji,

    Male and female are needed to give birth. 'The Sat' is 'One' and independent of time. No gender can be assigned to 'The Sat'.

    When we use the term 'Karta Purakh', it means God or 'Whaeguru' as you perceive. In my mind (it is my limitation) the word Purakh has gender connotation. It is for this reason I use the term 'The Sat' taken from Mool Mantra to denote God. This term removes from my mind any connotation related to gender.

    With love and respect for all.

    Amarpal Singh
     
  5. Archived_member2

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    Pray truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear Amarpal Singh Ji,

    You wrote "Male and female are needed to give birth. 'The Sat' is 'One' and independent of time. No gender can be assigned to 'The Sat'."

    We all belong to this world (Jag).
    Gurbani says:
    "aval alah noor upaa-i-aa kudrat kay sabh banday.
    ayk noor tay sabh jag upji-aa ka-un bhalay ko manday". SGGS page 1349

    First God brought forth 'noor' and from one 'noor' all worlds were born.

    My question is this.
    How was it possible that the worlds that consist of male and female, took birth from the 'noor? Is the 'noor' of God not 'The Sat' itself?

    Please elaborate.
    Thanks.

    Balbir Singh
     
  6. Arvind

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    Even I tend to think like this only.

    Regards.
     
  7. Amarpal

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    Dear Balbir Singh Ji,

    Male and female are needed in this world for birth and renewal of the spicies. 'The Sat' has no such need. Hence no gender.

    As you stated

    We all belong to this world (Jag).
    Gurbani says:
    "aval alah noor upaa-i-aa kudrat kay sabh banday.
    ayk noor tay sabh jag upji-aa ka-un bhalay ko manday". SGGS page 1349

    First God brought forth 'noor' and from one 'noor' all worlds were born.

    As I understand Noor is the source of life, it is 'The Sat' itself. The life is the creation of 'The Sat'. We are all made of chemicals and elements that are in Kudrat 'Nature'. Guru Sahib has further said 'ayk noor -----' In this way Guru Sahib has said we all are one.

    My learning tells me that all living entiries and kudrat are all one. 'Ek', only the form in which are are different.

    Men women are both human so they are same. Human and animals are both mobile life and so they are one. Plant animals and humans are one as the life in them is same. Plant animals, humans and Kudrat are one are they have the same ingradient.

    This all is one with 'The Sat' as the noor in us and nature is nothing but 'The Sat'.

    Our existance is only a form, intrinsically we are all one i.e. 'Ek' or 'ayk'

    We are not born to 'The Sat' in the conventional sense of the word. We all are creation of 'The Sat' i.e. the 'Cosmic Intelligence' i.e the God

    This is my understanding.

    With love and respect for all.

    Amarpal Singh
     
  8. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Thanks for the responses.

    Babbar Sher Ji wrote "God according to sikhism, is neither male, female."
    Please provide a reference from Gurbani.

    Gurbani says "parabh maat pitaa kanth laa-idaa lahurhay baalak paal." SGGS page 957
    God is a mother, father according to Gurbani. Why God can't be male, female according to Babbar Sher Ji?

    Amarpal Singh Ji wrote "Male and female are needed in this world for birth and renewal of the spicies. 'The Sat' has no such need. Hence no gender."
    Please provide a reference from Gurbani.

    This explanation raised a question in me. Why 'The Sat' gave birth to this world when HE has no such need, hence gender also?

    Amarpal Ji wrote further "My learning tells me that all living entiries and kudrat are all one. 'Ek', only the form in which are are different."
    Gurbani says that the realization being different in any form is 'dooja bha-o', the duality.
    In my experience, one who realizes God, he finds HIM in all, in a female, in a mother also.

    Amarpal Ji also wrote "We are not born to 'The Sat' in the conventional sense of the word."
    But Gurbani says "rangee rangee bhaatee kar kar jinsee maa-i-aa jin upaa-ee." SGGS page 6
    HE gave birth (jin upaa-ee) to the world of Genes (jinsee maa-i-aa) in different colors and in different ways.

    I will be grateful when someone can explain the concept of 'ayka maa-ee' from Japuji Sahib.

    Thanks for your inputs.


    Balbir Singh
     
  9. vijaydeep Singh

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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    As das also go by Dasham Granth and Sarbloh Granth Ji,

    There Akal is called Mata or mother.

    Guru Granth Sahib Ji say,Har(i) Ji Mata,Har(i) Ji Pitah.

    Tum Mat Pitah,Hum Balak Tere.

    God is in all male and God is in all female.

    As God is not in one male or one female so God is devoid of any unique gender.

    God is that energy which created matter.Due to two matter being visible there realtive distance gave space and change in matter gave time.

    As when enrgy converts itself into matter during the time of creation.Then that energy is a producer of Matter and as it produces the matter so it is mother and father of matter.

    Like all boides are of God so not a uniqe body so as all genders are of God so no unique gender.

    Gender/sex are dependent on God but God is beyong that.
     
  10. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Thanks Vijaydeep Singh Ji for your explanation that God is energy and gives birth to all matter, space and time.

    In my view energy is also a part of the world.

    Nirguna God is not even recognized as energy.

    You wrote "Like all boides are of God so not a uniqe body so as all genders are of God so no unique gender."
    Have I understood it rightly? Like a piece of 'Burfee', an Indian sweet, is a combination of sugar, cardamoms, milk, silver paper, the white color, the taste, the volume etc. But not one element or character of the above can claim to be 'Burfee'. Similarly unaccountable matters belong to God but God is not one of those, according to you.

    At the end you wrote "Gender/sex are dependent on God but God is beyong that."

    Gurbani says that God gave birth to each part of the world, including gender and sex, and then dwelled in each part Himself.
    My curiosity to know is this. Why God is beyond that all when HE is dwelling within all?

    Please make me wise.


    Balbir Singh
     
  11. SINGH SEVADAR

    SINGH SEVADAR
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    vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw]
    vwihgurU jI kI Piqh]


    isrIrwgu mhlw 1 ] Awvhu BYxy gil imlh AMik shylVIAwh ] imil kY krh khwxIAw sMmRQ kMq kIAwh ] sBy kMq mhylIAw sglIAw krih sIgwru ] gxq gxwvix AweIAw sUhw vysu ivkwru ] pwKMif pRymu n pweIAY Kotw pwju KuAwru ] 1 ] hir jIau ieau ipru rwvY nwir ] quDu Bwvin sohwgxI ApxI ikrpw lYih svwir ] 1 ]

    ienMw qukW qNo ieh ANdwzw lgwieAw jw skdw hY ik rb puruS vwck hY ]
     
  12. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all and Singh Sevadar Ji!
    Is God male alone?

    Gurbani says that God is male, female and all the Sarguna worlds together with HIS Nirguna Swaroop.
    One, who comes to know God, he realizes Him in all and His Nirguna Swaroop also.

    Please let me revise my question.

    Is God female alone?

    The answer, in my view as I have understood Gurbani, is 'No'.

    All is Godly. All is God.


    Balbir Singh
     
  13. vijaydeep Singh

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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Although das was busy with some social matter related to Castism in Panth but Brother Balbeer Singh Ji raised two questions so das will reply them first.

    Is God Beyond energy ?

    Why God is within whole world yet outside it?or dwelling in all yet beyond all?

    So far as energy is concern,if we see all universe,If we could see universe,Then it means one form of energy that is light is passing from there.So enrgy is there as enrgy can pass vaccum.so Vaccum is vaccum of matter and not of energy.

    Energy(God) is termed as amit(undestructable) ouj(Energy) in Japu Sahib and that is an attribute of God,So there if we get vaccum it is due to the space and matter so that is also depended on energy.

    Same energy,Which can not be created or destroyed but changes from one form into another.So all matter in fact are manifestation of energy.Atom which composes of quark,protons,ectrons,neutrons plus all nulcaler matter.Various permutations and combiantions of nuclear matter(Which is made up of enrgy) makes it possilbe for us to have various such differnt elemments.

    the thoery of relativey by Albert Einstine talks of E=MC*C.Here E is energy,M is matter and c is palnks constant.

    Ek Noor Se Sab Jag Upjaya or Oankar Adi(Japu Sahib) or Oankar making universe(Vachitar Natak). Realy talks of two thing that light form of enrgy made matter and sound was unending like circle 0 as O or Omega(as per new testment ) are circle.

    But here thing is that all matter is composed of energy.And if we say we measure enrgy in joules then we can only measure a measureable form like heat,light ,kinatic exetra.Those are part of system but whole system is manifestation of energy.

    the energy or any such phenomina like our brain or any science we can only describe some phinomina ie how does it happens but we can not say why does it happens or we can not not explain.So science also is incomplete.

    So God is in all enrgy and if there is anything beyond enrgy then God is also there.But concept of enrgy in the field of religeon is bigger then of todays incomplete sceince.

    Next coming to the differance between Bram and Pra Braham,God in matter and yet beyond it.

    Well if we see our body.Our hand is its part.Hand is in our contral yet brain which guides it is not in hand.But in the case of Brahm and Parbrahm it is further complex.Gurbani says,If we reach that hight then only we can understand that high.To whom you want to be aware that only gets aware.

    so only a person,can tell whom God's has wanted to know this.Like our Gurus.And they wrote it.

    At one time God was all alone in Shunya(No other but God alone was there).(THis is perhaps from Sidh Gosht).Then God created universe.

    God does what God likes.So God who his a perfect wanted to taste the joys of being imperfect also(Like a joy person can have when he has two feet yet he run on one feet while playing Langri Tang).

    So all things, all acts,all taste which we apperantly enjoy are in fact enjoyed by God as God is Sarbang Bhukta(consumer of all,Pleasure,things and feeling etc.)What may appear to us that we are eating is in fact act of God.

    Then why do not we know it? As energy who does all these works,we can not explain but can only describe.By Nature of energy we can say that it is bound to have brain also.It is Achhed(never discoountinoues).So what that enrgy or God want us to do we do.like pupits controled by puppiters.

    But as this enrgy makes us.When ever that enrgy makes us to realise that what actualy it is then we see energy in all time and space.With speed of light's like speed we can make time also negitive and go back in past and come back in future.So far that speed is in mind or soul of those persons who enrgy want to have it.When a person see that all things are nothing but light or visible part of enrgy(Anubhav Prakash).That is the state of devine knowledge or Brahm Gyan.(Das has not reached there as yet).

    But why people like Das are still not attining BrahGyan.Das can say that God does not want it.Why,may be God in us want to have such pleasures,which papi like us can provide God and not Brahgyanis.

    Like persuits of something as an aim in life.That has lots of mixes of feeling with us.A Brahmgyani knows all such is Maya(Mammon or decayable matterialics notions) So such pleasure via Brahmgyani can not be obtained.But from Papi like us God can have Such pleasure.

    It is clear that if God had to make all creatures as Brahm Gyani then God may not have made universe at all.God wants some enjoyment like in seclusions we may make some gesture of feets or hands to remove boring.So maybe God also want same thing from us when we do all wrong thing inspite of knowing that all this is going to be decayed.

    Like hand knows that actual controler is nervours system.As nerous system is in Hand yet hand is not aware what actually nerous system is going.In the same way Brahm(Matterial also made up of God) is under the control of Parbrahm(Brain of energy).

    When there will be no differnance between nevous system (This is hypothaical as in real world this can not happen)and hand then
    we say Brahm Gyan is obtained.But unlike nerous system and hand which are more bounded by physical constraint we may get a state as told in chauopayye sahib.

    Jabb Uttkark Kara Kartara Praja Darat Tab Deh Apara
    (When creater expands,subjects take form of endless bodies)
    Jabb Acarath KaraT ho Kabo ho Tum mein Milen Deh Dhar Sabho)
    When attraction(of compression) is done (By you) in you all boides confluence).(Triya Charittar 405 Dasham Granth)

    So when God will regain the shape God initial had when there was no creation then,Bodies, mattrial,soul,sapce,time will be destroyed.So there is no need for any to wonder for sin or chasity(Punya or Papa of anand Sahib)
    or heaven or hell.

    So answer to your question.By will of God does God while living in creation leaves a large chunk of it unaware of God's self.So God in everywhere(Sarb Passiyye Hain).Only one who God wants to know that God is everywhere know that.

    The way son can not tell of Father nor Dumb can talk of taste of suger so can even Brahgyani get difficult to explain God.As God if God has to explain God's self to nay one does that explaination.Akal Bless.
     
  14. Sher Singh

    Sher Singh
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    No, God is God. Gurbani says:
    Page 35, Line 1 -- Guru Amar Das
    sB ikCu Awpy Awip hY haumY ivic khnu n jwie ]
    God Himself is everything; those who are in their ego cannot even speak of this.
    sabh kichh aapay aap hai ha-umai vich kahan na jaa-ay.

    as you have seen God is everything! God is everything, yet god is nothing. God is male and female, yet he isnt. If you undertsand Gurbani, it says that God is everything, eyt nothing. And this is true. God is male and female becuase Gurbani says that God made us and how can we be made without sperm/eggs? Thus, God is everything. it depends on how you look at it. But in my opinion, i think we shouldnt look @ God as just male or female OR both! BEcause that would jsut decrease the greatness of God, reducing God to just a mere Male or Female. We should look at God as everything, because then we will look at God in such a praising way, there would be nothing to say.. just our mouths open. Thats the true greatness of God, that God cant be described, even as hard as we try. we're limited in words to praise God. In brief, we shouldnt think of God as female or male, God is both, and evrything else!

    Hope that helps, ive tried *smiles in contentment with trying to help* :)
     
    #13 Sher Singh, Apr 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  15. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all and Sher Singh Ji!

    You wrote "God is everything, yet god is nothing."

    Have I understood it rightly? One who has everything he has God. One who has nothing he has God too.

    You also wrote ". . . that would jsut decrease the greatness of God, reducing God to just a mere Male or Female."
    Does the greatness of God depend on how we think?

    Then you extended "Thats the true greatness of God, that God cant be described."
    You described so much about God in this post. Is this the false greatness of God?

    Please elaborate and help further with a smile.


    Balbir Singh
     
  16. gursidak

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    This thread really makes an interesting reading with really amazing information put in between.

    When we try to measure the 'amit' (the unmeasurable) we are definitely game to use yardsticks which might not be true to the task. When I was a kid my father tried to explain the Sun to me as a "huge ball on fire." Now this, although not the true explaination of Sun, was quite appropriate for a boy of 5-6 years and the least it did was it gave me a "seed thought" which was an effort in the right direction and as I grew up I was aware of the nuclear fusion and all that is going on there. So, even now I cannot say that my father was wrong at that time.

    So our Holy Guru 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib' keeps on supplanting the right seeds in us, and we as the mortals as we grow keep on refining our understanding by His Grace and come a trifle nearer to the Truth by these small steps.

    Coming closer to the topic at hand, 'male or female' is more pertinent in the realms of our physical world and right at the inception when Guru Nanak Sahib uttered the Holy Gurbani, it was in a form that was easily understandable to the uneducated and simple-thinking commoners so as to strike a direct communication with people and do away the middlemen in the form of pandits and mullahs etc. So all through what we get is the refined elucidation of God in the most simple terms and thoughts. That's probably the reason that we find 'Ram, Allah.......and other names of God' which was again to strike direct communication with people who knew God by such names through preceeding millenia. First, the people were attracted towards the basic definations of Truth (like the "ball on fire") and slowly as they grew in thoughts and were bound by Love to God they were easily able to grasp more complex thoughts and that's probably the reason that Gursikhs in present time are not that touchy about the use of different names of God in our Holy Texts and can easily understand the philosophy.

    Same ways the male and female relations are used to an amazing effect to enshrine various facets of Godly love but it might be preposterous for a Gursikh to read too much into the literal meanings and not progress to the more refined philosophies enshrined in the Gurbani.

    As pointed out in some of the posts also, male or female matters in the realms of physical world but not the least when we talk about the supernatural. To me it sounds like an effort to measure the circumference of earth or distance between sun and earth using a dime. Here the bland logic on paper might seem right but not True to the Task At Hand.

    Bhullan Chukan Di Khima.

    Statuary Warning: These are the thoughts of a foolish person because trying to reason the God, Guru, or Gurbani is always a risky proposition because THERE IS ALWAYS MORE TO IT THAN ONE CAN POSSIBLY SEE.


    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
  17. Sher Singh

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    Yes, as I have said before and as oyu have stated in your post, Those who have obtained God have everything, why because God is everything. Those who have nothing can obtain God if they dont forget God. With God, there is everything, without there is only pain. Furthermore, i dont thinkk u quite understood what the quote meant, "God is everything, yet God is nothing" what i meant was God is everyhting, everything means everything. also, i was wondering, what did i say that described God? All i said was that God was indescribabale thats all. Please elaborate on what you mean by saying that i described God so much in my post.
     
  18. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all and Sher Singh Ji!

    It becomes HIS description when we say or imagine one word about God.

    When God cannot be described, there is not anything existing.

    Also expressing that 'God cannot be described' is one of his qualities.

    What do you say about fourteen hundred and thirty pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

    I feel that those are songs only about God.

    It would be nice when you visit here again with your smiles and the smily.


    Balbir Singh
     
  19. Sher Singh

    Sher Singh
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    "HIS" is just a literal term, i dont mean male or female.
    " When God cannot be described, there is not anything existing." What do you say about fourteen hundred and thirty pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
    i agree.

    Also expressing that 'God cannot be described' is one of his qualities.
    wouldnt u agree with me that saying this is a good thing? Something whom we cant even describe, someghing that is so great that it cannot be described, wouldnt u agree thats a good thing? The Guru's had said this not me, im just saying it again.

    "What do you say about fourteen hundred and thirty pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?"
    i would say that The SGGS is an extremely great composition. All of it prasing God, none of it is like the Semantic books, its on its own. Its great!! Yes, they are songs only about God, because for Sikhs we have one main Goal... ACHEIVE GOD! be one with God, simran, meditation, kirtan, paath, etc.

    Hope that answers your questions... :)
     
  20. Archived_member2

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    Satsriakal to all and Sher Singh Ji!

    Thanks for your guidance, answers and smiles.

    Love.


    Balbir Singh
     
  21. Sher Singh

    Sher Singh
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    No Problem Brother. Anytime... just trying to help :)
     

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