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ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
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Is Bisan Of Guru Gobind Singh Jee And Kabeer Jee Different?
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 77625" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>Say Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!</p><p>Dear all and Pk70 Jee!</p><p></p><p>Quote " . . . a quote from Gurbani was given, you didnt bring it here as per your strategy."</p><p>Why do you hesitate to refer it again? Please do it.</p><p> HERE IS IT</p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਚਾਰਿ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੇਦ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਰੁ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁਰਾਨਾਂ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਮਲਾਪਤਿ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਵਲਾ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਹੀ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾਨਾਂ</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੩</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></strong></p><p> <strong>The four Vedas, the Simritees and the Puraanas, <span style="color: red">Vishnu the Lord of Lakshmi</span> and Lakshmi herself - none of them know the Lord. ||3||</strong></p><p></p><p> <strong>I proved it through Kabir ji’s Vaak, who is in denial? Balbir Singh ji</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>Quote "By merely claiming being with Guru, one is not with Guru. That state(being with the Guru) of mind is way far away for a person who still thinks Ram the king"</p><p></p><p></p><p> Please do not envy others. I hope people are not envying the enlightened Gurus who realized the King Raam.</p><p></p><p></p><p> <strong>Here is what Guru ji realized</strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"> so muKu jlau ijqu khih Twkuru jonI ]3] jnim n mrY n AwvY n jwie ] {pMnw 1136}</span></span></strong></p><p> <strong>Guru ji realized deathless, birth less Ram but not your king Ram of Ayudhya, a Sargun sroop. Sargun sroop is just HIS impression only.</strong></p><p> <strong> Why to envy any one who claims to be with Guru? Nirankari, Ram Raheem and many Babaas or Gurus are claiming to be with Akaal purakh, why would even I care about them? </strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong></strong>Quote " . . . when Guru ji describes him crying over brother and wife- is an attribute to GOD."</p><p>Gurdev has not used the words brother and wife. What has influenced you to come to this conclusion?</p><p> <strong>Alright, Guru ji didn’t use word like brother, wife, there is reference in Shabad to Sita, who was Sita ? wife of King of Ayudhya Ram. Laxman? Brother of Ram of Ayudhya . Word gaming is at its peak. When will you get over with these unnecessary word game?</strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: blue">Raam is a part of Sansaar. All Sansaar is dukhiaa. Raam cries. This is another Attribute of Raam, Sargun God.</span></strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong><u><span style="color: blue">RAAM never cries, only Ram of Ayudhya, HIS sargun sroop, cried for losing wife and brother. </span></u></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue"> GUR JI ALSO SAYS ABOUT THIS SARGUN SROOP OF GOD, enjoy it, it further clears concept of His Nirgun and sargun Sroops</span></strong></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">jwrau AYsI pRIiq kutMb snbMDI mwieAw moh pswrI ] ijsu AMqir pRIiq rwm rsu nwhI duibDw krm ibkwrI ]3] AMqir rqn pdwrQ ihq kO durY n lwl ipAwrI ] nwnk gurmuiK nwmu Amolku juig juig AMqir DwrI ]4]3] {pMnw 1197-1198)</span></span></p><p> <strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">N</span></span> No translation here, direct Revealed Vaak of Guru ji, it says Sargun Sroop of God is an an obstacle too to realize HIM.</strong></p><p> </p><p> Quote "Yes sir, Kabir ji talks in that shabad about Nirgun Bisn,"</p><p><strong><span style="color: blue">Gurdev says that no one can talk about His Nirgun Saroop.</span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">Kabir ji was saying to meditate on His Nirgun Sroop Bisn Reread it.</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: blue"></span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p> Since when Bisan is Nirgun.</p><p> Is this what you have understood from translations?</p><p> <strong>According to Gurbani( a quote already given above from Bhagat Kabir ji), he can be called on as Bisn, translation has nothing to do with it. Just for information, my mother tongue is Punjabi, I don’t need translations.</strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Quote "again in another quote I gave, Kabir ji talks about sargun roop bisn who knows not infinity of The Creator."</p><p><strong><span style="color: blue">Kabeer Jee also feels unable to talk about Nirgun Lord. He talks about only Sargun Attribute of God.</span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">This is the quote you gave from Bhagat Kabir ji, here he is not saying what you are saying. day dreaming cannot change the facts.</span></strong></p><p> </p><p>Quote "Kabir's bani is Gurbani, in his quote, there in your intial post(given above), he asks to meditate on Nirgun Bisn."</p><p><strong><span style="color: blue">Wrong. Samhaari does not mean meditating.</span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">Why do you keep the meaning you talk about to yourself? share it with all, we will see if it is accurately interpreted.</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: blue"></span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue"> Also, Bisan is never Nirgun Bisan because the creator created Him.</span></strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">Here your confusion is very strong, Bhagat Kabir ji uses a word known in our debate Bisn, for the Creator. Look for your own quote.</span></strong></p><p></p><p>Quote "Your thread seems to be hair splitting game, nothing more than that. That was another reason I called it time wastage because denial and stone walling stop every thing, resulting in time wasting."</p><p>I am thankful. God has engaged me in His Attributes.</p><p> <strong>CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</strong></p><p></p><p>Quote "How will you explain any one what is meant by" translated Sikhs”? Please must explain it?"</p><p>Those, who understand their Guru through translations from others, refer translations and think on those translations. They are translated Sikhs.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Since they are translated Sikhs as per your decree, how they can be Sikhs even? Babaas and preachers you frequently quote are not well versed in English and stick with original, they also fall in your category, isn’t your way to avoid logic and start judging of others? </strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: blue">True Guru's Wisdom is to experience received through the true Naam Sabad.</span></strong></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: blue">Your statement needs further explanation but read what Satguru ji says in this context</span></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">“ The way of yogis is the way of philosophy and that of Brahmins is to read the Vedas.</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">The way of Kashatrya is the way of bravery and that of Sudras is the service of others.</span></strong></p><p> <u><strong><span style="color: blue">But one who knows the secret, there is one and the same way for all (regardless of being any one)</span></strong></u></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue"><u>Such a one is spotless and Godlike, and Nanak is his servant.”</u></span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">( Slok Mehl 2, Asa Dee Vaar)</span></strong></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Quote "Guru Gobind Singh is declaring that bisan is not worthy of attention. Don’t please add new meanings to it. Argument is heavily rusted."</p><p>Wrong. <strong><span style="color: blue">Gurdev would never say 'Liv Laagee moree Pag In SaoN' in the next line if He would reject Bisan.</span></strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">H</span></strong><span style="color: blue">ere you act like translated Sikhs because, I referred to Guru vaak” bisn kabhi n dhiaaon.”” liv laagee moree Pag In Saon” is for the Creator not Bisn, His creation.</span></p><p><span style="color: blue">"IN" stands for The Creator.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Quote "Well, it was you who said different way, saying Kabir and Guru Gobind Singh ji's Bisan are separate . You never mentioned sargun or nirgun word in there."</p><p>At least rise to earth, please.</p><p></p><p></p><p> <strong>I am here , please come out of dreams because your sentence is not even close to my question</strong></p><p> </p><p>I asked. Is Bisan of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and Kabeer Jee different?</p><p>I did not ask. Are Bisans of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and Kabeer Jee different?</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Game of word doesn’t take any one any where. Look at meaning” is Bisn of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and Kabeer Jee different”?, in this sentence very clearly it is asked if Bisn used in Kabir ji’s quote and Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s quote are the same or different one? In the second sentence, again it is asked if both of the authors are using “Bisn” for the same entity or different one. The essence is the same, an imprudent game can go on.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>Quote " . . . but you went further by saying king Ram permeates in Sikhs, quite opposite to sargun sroop."</p><p><strong><span style="color: blue">This is Truth also right now. Raam is the Sargun activity of Lord permeating in all, also Sikhs.</span></strong></p><p> <span style="color: blue">Only as per your <u>special truth</u>. King Ram was sargun sroop which was prone to die, Nirgun sroop permeated in King Ram when he was alive, now only Nirgun Ram is permeating every where. If a worshipper of Ram of Ayudhya, says King Raam of Ayudhya does permeate today, who cares man?</span></p><p></p><p>Quote "Isnt it hilarious to know that sargun roop of Creator Ram still permeates in Sikhs? I doubt even so called babaas can make fun of Creator like this."</p><p><strong><span style="color: blue">This is Truth. God is not only Nirgun. Nobody recognizes HIM half. The blessed ones recognize HIM, complete, in HIS NIRGUN PLUS SARGUN form simultaneously. </span></strong></p><p> <span style="color: blue">To recognize God and His both sroop(Nirgun and Sargun) simultaneously is a different thing than saying the dead is permeating in living beings.</span></p><p></p><p>Quote "Good runs ! Almost all babaas and Preachers are beaten. WAO!!!!"</p><p><strong><span style="color: blue">All is God's Domain.</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: blue">HIS HUKAM PERVAILS</span></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 77625, member: 5889"] Say Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Pk70 Jee! Quote " . . . a quote from Gurbani was given, you didnt bring it here as per your strategy." Why do you hesitate to refer it again? Please do it. HERE IS IT [B][FONT=Raavi]ਚਾਰਿ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Raavi]ਬੇਦ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Raavi]ਅਰੁ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Raavi]ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Raavi]ਪੁਰਾਨਾਂ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Raavi]ਕਮਲਾਪਤਿ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Raavi]ਕਵਲਾ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Raavi]ਨਹੀ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾਨਾਂ[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Raavi]੩[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/B] [B]The four Vedas, the Simritees and the Puraanas, [COLOR=red]Vishnu the Lord of Lakshmi[/COLOR] and Lakshmi herself - none of them know the Lord. ||3||[/B] [B]I proved it through Kabir ji’s Vaak, who is in denial? Balbir Singh ji [/B] Quote "By merely claiming being with Guru, one is not with Guru. That state(being with the Guru) of mind is way far away for a person who still thinks Ram the king" Please do not envy others. I hope people are not envying the enlightened Gurus who realized the King Raam. [B]Here is what Guru ji realized[/B] [B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=GurbaniWebThick] so muKu jlau ijqu khih Twkuru jonI ]3] jnim n mrY n AwvY n jwie ] {pMnw 1136}[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B]Guru ji realized deathless, birth less Ram but not your king Ram of Ayudhya, a Sargun sroop. Sargun sroop is just HIS impression only.[/B] [B] Why to envy any one who claims to be with Guru? Nirankari, Ram Raheem and many Babaas or Gurus are claiming to be with Akaal purakh, why would even I care about them? [/B]Quote " . . . when Guru ji describes him crying over brother and wife- is an attribute to GOD." Gurdev has not used the words brother and wife. What has influenced you to come to this conclusion? [B]Alright, Guru ji didn’t use word like brother, wife, there is reference in Shabad to Sita, who was Sita ? wife of King of Ayudhya Ram. Laxman? Brother of Ram of Ayudhya . Word gaming is at its peak. When will you get over with these unnecessary word game?[/B] [B] [COLOR=blue]Raam is a part of Sansaar. All Sansaar is dukhiaa. Raam cries. This is another Attribute of Raam, Sargun God.[/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] [B][U][COLOR=blue]RAAM never cries, only Ram of Ayudhya, HIS sargun sroop, cried for losing wife and brother. [/COLOR][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=blue] GUR JI ALSO SAYS ABOUT THIS SARGUN SROOP OF GOD, enjoy it, it further clears concept of His Nirgun and sargun Sroops[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=maroon][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][FONT=GurbaniWebThick]jwrau AYsI pRIiq kutMb snbMDI mwieAw moh pswrI ] ijsu AMqir pRIiq rwm rsu nwhI duibDw krm ibkwrI ]3] AMqir rqn pdwrQ ihq kO durY n lwl ipAwrI ] nwnk gurmuiK nwmu Amolku juig juig AMqir DwrI ]4]3] {pMnw 1197-1198)[/FONT][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=GurbaniWebThick]N[/FONT][/COLOR] No translation here, direct Revealed Vaak of Guru ji, it says Sargun Sroop of God is an an obstacle too to realize HIM.[/B][B][COLOR=maroon][/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] Quote "Yes sir, Kabir ji talks in that shabad about Nirgun Bisn," [B][COLOR=blue]Gurdev says that no one can talk about His Nirgun Saroop.[/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]Kabir ji was saying to meditate on His Nirgun Sroop Bisn Reread it. [/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] Since when Bisan is Nirgun. Is this what you have understood from translations? [B]According to Gurbani( a quote already given above from Bhagat Kabir ji), he can be called on as Bisn, translation has nothing to do with it. Just for information, my mother tongue is Punjabi, I don’t need translations.[/B] Quote "again in another quote I gave, Kabir ji talks about sargun roop bisn who knows not infinity of The Creator." [B][COLOR=blue]Kabeer Jee also feels unable to talk about Nirgun Lord. He talks about only Sargun Attribute of God.[/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]This is the quote you gave from Bhagat Kabir ji, here he is not saying what you are saying. day dreaming cannot change the facts.[/COLOR][/B] Quote "Kabir's bani is Gurbani, in his quote, there in your intial post(given above), he asks to meditate on Nirgun Bisn." [B][COLOR=blue]Wrong. Samhaari does not mean meditating.[/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]Why do you keep the meaning you talk about to yourself? share it with all, we will see if it is accurately interpreted. [/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] [B][COLOR=blue] Also, Bisan is never Nirgun Bisan because the creator created Him.[/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]Here your confusion is very strong, Bhagat Kabir ji uses a word known in our debate Bisn, for the Creator. Look for your own quote.[/COLOR][/B] Quote "Your thread seems to be hair splitting game, nothing more than that. That was another reason I called it time wastage because denial and stone walling stop every thing, resulting in time wasting." I am thankful. God has engaged me in His Attributes. [B]CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/B] Quote "How will you explain any one what is meant by" translated Sikhs”? Please must explain it?" Those, who understand their Guru through translations from others, refer translations and think on those translations. They are translated Sikhs. [B]Since they are translated Sikhs as per your decree, how they can be Sikhs even? Babaas and preachers you frequently quote are not well versed in English and stick with original, they also fall in your category, isn’t your way to avoid logic and start judging of others? [/B] [B] [COLOR=blue]True Guru's Wisdom is to experience received through the true Naam Sabad.[/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] [COLOR=blue]Your statement needs further explanation but read what Satguru ji says in this context[/COLOR][B][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]“ The way of yogis is the way of philosophy and that of Brahmins is to read the Vedas.[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]The way of Kashatrya is the way of bravery and that of Sudras is the service of others.[/COLOR][/B] [U][B][COLOR=blue]But one who knows the secret, there is one and the same way for all (regardless of being any one)[/COLOR][/B][/U] [B][COLOR=blue][U]Such a one is spotless and Godlike, and Nanak is his servant.”[/U][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]( Slok Mehl 2, Asa Dee Vaar)[/COLOR][/B] Quote "Guru Gobind Singh is declaring that bisan is not worthy of attention. Don’t please add new meanings to it. Argument is heavily rusted." Wrong. [B][COLOR=blue]Gurdev would never say 'Liv Laagee moree Pag In SaoN' in the next line if He would reject Bisan.[/COLOR][/B] [B][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]H[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=blue]ere you act like translated Sikhs because, I referred to Guru vaak” bisn kabhi n dhiaaon.”” liv laagee moree Pag In Saon” is for the Creator not Bisn, His creation.[/COLOR] [COLOR=blue]"IN" stands for The Creator.[/COLOR] Quote "Well, it was you who said different way, saying Kabir and Guru Gobind Singh ji's Bisan are separate . You never mentioned sargun or nirgun word in there." At least rise to earth, please. [B]I am here , please come out of dreams because your sentence is not even close to my question[/B] I asked. Is Bisan of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and Kabeer Jee different? I did not ask. Are Bisans of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and Kabeer Jee different? [B]Game of word doesn’t take any one any where. Look at meaning” is Bisn of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and Kabeer Jee different”?, in this sentence very clearly it is asked if Bisn used in Kabir ji’s quote and Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s quote are the same or different one? In the second sentence, again it is asked if both of the authors are using “Bisn” for the same entity or different one. The essence is the same, an imprudent game can go on. [/B] Quote " . . . but you went further by saying king Ram permeates in Sikhs, quite opposite to sargun sroop." [B][COLOR=blue]This is Truth also right now. Raam is the Sargun activity of Lord permeating in all, also Sikhs.[/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=blue]Only as per your [U]special truth[/U]. King Ram was sargun sroop which was prone to die, Nirgun sroop permeated in King Ram when he was alive, now only Nirgun Ram is permeating every where. If a worshipper of Ram of Ayudhya, says King Raam of Ayudhya does permeate today, who cares man?[/COLOR] Quote "Isnt it hilarious to know that sargun roop of Creator Ram still permeates in Sikhs? I doubt even so called babaas can make fun of Creator like this." [B][COLOR=blue]This is Truth. God is not only Nirgun. Nobody recognizes HIM half. The blessed ones recognize HIM, complete, in HIS NIRGUN PLUS SARGUN form simultaneously. [/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=blue]To recognize God and His both sroop(Nirgun and Sargun) simultaneously is a different thing than saying the dead is permeating in living beings.[/COLOR] Quote "Good runs ! Almost all babaas and Preachers are beaten. WAO!!!!" [B][COLOR=blue]All is God's Domain.[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=blue]HIS HUKAM PERVAILS[/COLOR][/B] [/QUOTE]
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Is Bisan Of Guru Gobind Singh Jee And Kabeer Jee Different?
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