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Is Bisan Of Guru Gobind Singh Jee And Kabeer Jee Different?
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 76239" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>Balbir Singh jio</p><p> </p><p>Sorry to say, again we are in disagreement.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Quote "In the waak you quoted by Kabir ji, Bisan stands for the Creator as it is also used by Guru Sahiban in various places."</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Please provide a reference from the reverend Gurus where they have explained that Bisan is the creator. I will be grateful</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Respectfully I have to explain what I meant. As you have put a question “May I ask if Guru Gobind Singh Jee and Bhagat Kabeer Jee have different views on 'Bisan'? Please express your views. I will be thankful.</span></span></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I was just referring to the use of words like Bisan, Ram, Brahama. They are used in Gurbani in both ways. One for The Creator and the other for well established Hindu Gods/Avtar as well. Here are the following examples where Satguru Nanak uses Bisan in the same sense Guru Gobind Singh ji used as per your quote.</span></span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੀਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸਾ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵ ਉਪਾਏ ਵੇਸਾ</span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> 839</span></span></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤ੍ਰਿਆਖਹਿ ਬਰਮੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਇੰਦ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">26 0 Jap Ji</span></span></strong></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong> Balbir j Singh ji, Now look at the following quote from GGS JI. First use of Ram is for Hindu Avtar/God, Ram Chandar</strong></span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸੁ ਦੇਵ ਉਪਾਇਆ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਦਿਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਪੂਜਾ ਲਾਇਆ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਸ <u>ਅਵਤਾਰੀ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਾਜਾ ਆਇਆ </u></span><u><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">(1279)</span></span></u></strong></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">In the following Guru waak use of “Ram” is quite contrary to the above use ( GGSJI 1279.)</span>, I mean it is used for The Creator, see below</strong></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਿਨ ਮਹਿ <u>ਰਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰ</u> </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">37 Japji</span></span></strong></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">Sir I also I refer to Namjap ji’s post where Kabir ji has used the same word ‘Bisan” for Hindu Avtar/God as well.</span></strong></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Quote "Though I believe Dasam Granth in its totality was not authored by Dasmesh."</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Ego believes all that it has not experienced as Truth.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Truth is to experience, not to believe.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong>I have expressed my opinions; you have the right to have your opinions about the “Truth” Obviously we disagree about” the Truth “strongly if I may say this!</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Quote " . . . here Bisan in above quote from Dasam Granth, it is used for Hindu Gods."</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Guru Gobind Singh Jee never said 'Bisan is Hindu God'.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Those who have convinced weak-minded people that Bisan is Hindu may be strong </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">fanatics.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong>As I said, you have the right to have your views; however, I wouldn’t stoop low to call people fanatics unless they act like fanatics.</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Quote "The comparison seems out of context."</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Why translations are different? Bisan is the same though.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong>As explained above, same “RAM” word is used for Ram Chandar and the Creator as well. Words are the same; however, context it different. Being a Sikh, I hope, you are very well aware of the truth that Guru Sahiban, Bhagat jio, used Ram, Murar, Krishana, Sanwla also for the Creator. I am sorry I have to disagree with you on all points you pointed out.</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><strong></strong></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 76239, member: 5889"] Balbir Singh jio Sorry to say, again we are in disagreement. [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Quote "In the waak you quoted by Kabir ji, Bisan stands for the Creator as it is also used by Guru Sahiban in various places." Please provide a reference from the reverend Gurus where they have explained that Bisan is the creator. I will be grateful[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Respectfully I have to explain what I meant. As you have put a question “May I ask if Guru Gobind Singh Jee and Bhagat Kabeer Jee have different views on 'Bisan'? Please express your views. I will be thankful.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]I was just referring to the use of words like Bisan, Ram, Brahama. They are used in Gurbani in both ways. One for The Creator and the other for well established Hindu Gods/Avtar as well. Here are the following examples where Satguru Nanak uses Bisan in the same sense Guru Gobind Singh ji used as per your quote.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT] [SIZE=3][B][FONT=Raavi]ਤੀਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸਾ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵ ਉਪਾਏ ਵੇਸਾ[/FONT][FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman] 839[/FONT][/FONT][/B][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][B][FONT=Raavi]ਤ੍ਰਿਆਖਹਿ ਬਰਮੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਇੰਦ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman]26 0 Jap Ji[/FONT][/FONT][/B][/SIZE] [FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B] Balbir j Singh ji, Now look at the following quote from GGS JI. First use of Ram is for Hindu Avtar/God, Ram Chandar[/B][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT] [SIZE=3][B][FONT=Raavi] ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸੁ ਦੇਵ ਉਪਾਇਆ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਦਿਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਪੂਜਾ ਲਾਇਆ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਦਸ [U]ਅਵਤਾਰੀ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਾਜਾ ਆਇਆ [/U][/FONT][U][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman](1279)[/FONT][/FONT][/U][/B][/SIZE] [FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B][FONT=Raavi]In the following Guru waak use of “Ram” is quite contrary to the above use ( GGSJI 1279.)[/FONT], I mean it is used for The Creator, see below[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT] [SIZE=3][B][FONT=Raavi]ਤਿਨ ਮਹਿ [U]ਰਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰ[/U] [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][FONT=Mangal][FONT=Times New Roman]37 Japji[/FONT][/FONT][/B][/SIZE] [FONT=Mangal][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B][FONT=Mangal]Sir I also I refer to Namjap ji’s post where Kabir ji has used the same word ‘Bisan” for Hindu Avtar/God as well.[/FONT][/B][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Quote "Though I believe Dasam Granth in its totality was not authored by Dasmesh." Ego believes all that it has not experienced as Truth. Truth is to experience, not to believe.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana][B]I have expressed my opinions; you have the right to have your opinions about the “Truth” Obviously we disagree about” the Truth “strongly if I may say this! [/B] Quote " . . . here Bisan in above quote from Dasam Granth, it is used for Hindu Gods." Guru Gobind Singh Jee never said 'Bisan is Hindu God'. Those who have convinced weak-minded people that Bisan is Hindu may be strong [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]fanatics.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana][B]As I said, you have the right to have your views; however, I wouldn’t stoop low to call people fanatics unless they act like fanatics. [/B] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Quote "The comparison seems out of context." Why translations are different? Bisan is the same though.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana][B]As explained above, same “RAM” word is used for Ram Chandar and the Creator as well. Words are the same; however, context it different. Being a Sikh, I hope, you are very well aware of the truth that Guru Sahiban, Bhagat jio, used Ram, Murar, Krishana, Sanwla also for the Creator. I am sorry I have to disagree with you on all points you pointed out. [/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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Is Bisan Of Guru Gobind Singh Jee And Kabeer Jee Different?
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