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Interpretations Of Gurbani Differ

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Astroboy, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Misinterpretation of Gurbani and Misrepresentation of Sikhism
    Due to historical circumstances, after the death of Guru Gobind Singh there was systematic annihilation of the Sikh population by the Mogul rulers and their collaborators, the proponents of caste ideology. During the first quarter of the 18th century there were not many Sikhs left who could read or write Gurbani, not to speak of exegete it. It was during this period when Sikh places of worship fell under the control of Udasis and Nirmalas, who created their own version of Sikhi.During this period most of the writings have misinterpretation of Gurbani and misrepresentations of Sikhism [3].


    (Full Article)
    http://www.nriinternet.com/NRIsikhs/Canada/Articles/Chahal/2006/2_06_ScientificAndLogical.doc
     
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  3. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    Extracted from


    the above-mentioned website:-



    KALAR KAEREE CHHAPREE


    klr kyrI CpVI kaUAw mil mil nwie ]
    mnu qnu mYlw AvguxI icMju BrI gMDI Awie ]
    srvru hMis n jwixAw kwg kupMKI sMig ]
    swkq isau AYsI pRIiq hY bUJhu igAwnI rMig ]
    sMq sBw jYkwru kir gurmuiK krm kmwau ]
    inrmlu n@wvxu nwnkw guru qIrQu drIAwau ]10]
    Aggs, m 1, p-1411. [1] (AGGS, M 1, p 1411. [1])


    1. Manmohan Singh [11]:
    The crow rubs and washes itself in the small pool of saline land.
    Its mind and body are dirty with demarits and its beak too is filled with filth.
    The swan of the lake, not knowing the crow is an evil bird, associated with it.
    Such is the love with the mammon-worshbiper.
    Understand thou this, O divine, through the Lord’s love.
    Shout thou the victory of the saints’ guild and do the deeds of a pious person.
    Immaculate is the abulation, O Nanak at the sacred shrine of the Guru-river. 10.

    2. Dr Sant Singh Khalsa [8]:
    The crow rubs and washes itself in the mud puddle.
    Its mind and body are polluted with its own mistakes and demerits, and its beak is filled with dirt.
    The swan in the pool associated with the crow, not knowing that it was evil.
    Such is the love of the faithless cynic; understand this, O spiritually wise ones, through love and devotion.
    So proclaim the victory of the Society of the Saints, and act as Gurmukh.
    Immaculate and pure is that cleansing bath, O Nanak, at the sacred shrine of the Guru’s river. 10.

    3. Dr Sahib Singh [13]
    ArQ:— hy BweI! (ivkwrW dI kwlK nwl) kwly hoey mn vwlw mnu`K (ivkwrW dy) k``lr dI C`pVI ivc bVy SOk nwl ieSnwn krdw rihMdw hY (ies krky aus dw) mn (aus dw) qn ivkwrW (dI mYl) nwl mYlw hoieAw rihMdw hY (ijvyN kW dI) cuMJ gMd nwl hI BrI rihMdI hY (iqvyN ivkwrI mnu`K dw mUMh BI inMdw Awidk gMd nwl hI BirAw rihMdw hY) [ hy BweI! BYVy pMCI kwvW dI sMgiq ivc (ivkwrI bMidAW dI suhbq ivc prmwqmw dI AMS jIv-) hMs ny (gurU-) srovr (dI kdr) nwh smJI [ hy BweI! prmwqmw nwloN tu`ty hoey mnu`KW nwl joVI hoeI pRIq ieho ijhI hI huMdI hY [ hy Awqmk jIvn dI sUJ hwsl krn dy cwhvwn mnu`K! prmwqmw dy pRym ivc itk ky (jIvn-rwh ƒ) smJ [ swD sMgiq ivc itk ky prmwqmw dI is&iq-swlwh kirAw kr, gurU dy snmuK r`Kx vwly krm kmwieAw kr—iehI hY piv`qr ieSnwn [ hy nwnk! gurU hI qIrQ hY gurU hI drIAwau hY (gurU ivc cu`BI lweI r`KxI hI piv`qr ieSnwn hY) [10[
    i) Comments
    All the above scholars have translated/interpreted “klr kyrI CpVI” as “pool of saline land”; mud puddle” and “(ivkwrW dy) k``lr dI C`pVI”. In all casesit means a “pool of dirty water”. In fact it is not dirty water.

    Only Dr Sahib Singh has done good job at least to explain the ‘crow’ as the metaphor for sinful person but stuck to the traditional interpretation of “klr kyrI CpVI” to “pool of dirty water” like others. However, none of the above authors had mentioned the cleansing quality of the alkaline water and also failed to explain that even the chemical cleansing quality of this water cannot cleanse the sinful mind.

    B. Scientific and Logical Interpretation
    Scientifically it is a pool of alkaline water containing sodium hydroxide, which when combines with fatty or oily excretions of body becomes soap resulting in cleaning of the dirty body. I have noticed myself during 1950s in Amritsar, Punjab, India that some people used to collect the white fluffy stuff produced on the surface of the alkaline soils for washing their dirty clothes. During rainy season the rain water washes fluffy alkaline powder from the surface of the soil, which gets collected in the low areas to form a small pool of alkaline water. It was a common scene during rainy season that crows wash their dirty feathers in that pool of alkaline water since this water has a cleansing* power. However, now no one can witness this phenomenon since all the alkaline soils have been reclaimed in the Punjab.
    (Note: *Cleanse: suggests more specifically the use of chemicals, purgatives, etc., and is often used metaphorically to imply purification [to cleanse one‘s mind of evil thoughts]).

    Keeping in view Nanakian Methodology [6] used by Guru Nanak in expressing his philosophy, scientific information on alkaline soil, and the use of allegoric, metaphoric, and symbolic expression, the interpretation of the following stanzas would be different than the traditional and literal English translation of above authors:

    klr kyrI CpVI kaUAw1 mil mil nwie ]
    mnu2 qnu3 mYlw AvguxI icMju4 BrI gMDI Awie ]
    A person1, whose mind2 and body3 have become dirty with sins and bad deeds and whose mouth4 is also full with filthy language, tries to cleanse himself by bathing his body and mouth in the pool of alkaline water. (Although the alkaline water has the cleansing power, it cannot cleanse the sinful mind.)

    The above interpretation is conveying the same philosophy of Guru Nanak, which has already been summarized in the JAP (The Essence of Nanakian Philoosphy) [5]. In the following stanzas Guru Nanak explains the use of chemical (soap) to clean the dirty clothes and cleansing of mind by conducting good deeds as follows:

    BrIAY hQu pYru qnu dyh ] pwxI DoqY auqrsu Kyh ]
    mUq plIqI kpVu hoie ] dy swbUxu leIAY Ehu Doie ]
    BrIAY miq pwpw kY sMig ] Ehu DopY nwvY1 kY rMig2 ]

    puMnI pwpI AwKxu nwih ] kir kir krxw iliK3 lY jwhu ]
    Awpy bIij Awpy hI Kwhu ] nwnk hukmI4 Awvhu jwhu5] 20 ]
    Aggs, jpu 20, p-20

    If hands are soiled with dust then cleansing method is ‘use of simple water’.
    If clothes are soiled with urine then cleansing method is ‘use of soap’.
    If mind is polluted with sin then cleansing method is ‘use of conscience’ (imbibing Naam).

    One does not become virtuous person or vicious person just by saying these words (or pretending to be so).
    It is so because of one's repeated good or bad deeds that make3 one as virtuous or vicious.
    Nanak says:
    What one sows, so one shall reap? (Because)
    Every action and reaction is happening5 under the Laws of Universe4.20.
    AGGS, Jap 20, p 20.

    Similarly, Guru Nanak even condemns the bathing at sacred places to cleanse the filthy mind:

    qIriQ nwvw jy iqsu Bwvw ivxu Bwxy ik nwie krI ]
    jyqI isriT aupweI vyKw ivxu krmw ik imlY leI ]
    Aggs, jpu 6, p-2.

    I would bathe at holy places, if it pleases (the almighty).
    If this practice is not accepted then bathing at holy places is of no avail.
    All the bounties, created (by God) that I see cannot be obtained without performing good deeds.
    AGGS, Jap 6, p 2.

    suixAw mMinAw min kIqw Bwau ] AMqrgiq qIriQ mil nwau ]
    Aggs, jpu 21, p-4.
    Listening and accepting (Nanakian philosophy); and developing love (for God and humanity) is equivalent to bathing at holy places, which removes the inner dirt of mind (the polluted mind).
    AGGS, Jap 21, p 4

     
  4. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    Let us consider the next stanzas of the above Sloka:

    srvru hMis1 n jwixAw kwg kupMKI2 sMig ]
    swkq3 isau AYsI pRIiq hY bUJhu igAwnI4 rMig5 ]

    Comments
    hMis (hans) has been literally translated as ‘swan’ and similarly, kwg kupMKI (kag kupankhi) as dirty crow by all the above scholars in their traditional interpretations.

    Scientific and Logical Interpretation
    hMis : Hans (It can be either swan or flamingo), being a white bird, has been used as metaphor for a clean (untainted) person in Gurbani. and kwg kupMKI (kag kupankhi) as metaphor for unclean (tainted) persons. Therefore, the above stanzas are interpreted scientifically and logically as follows:

    Some clean (untainted) persons1 do not understand that the company of sinful persons2 and love for the atheists3 is not good; it is only understood through the company5 of wise persons4.

    In continuation of the above Sloka finally Guru Nanak explains his philosophy to become a clean person as follows:

    sMq1 sBw2 jYkwru3 kir gurmuiK4 krm5 kmwau ]
    inrmlu6 n@wvxu7 nwnkw guru qIrQu8 drIAwau9 ]10]

    Nanak says:
    Say victory3 to the company2 of the clean persons1, who conduct good4 deeds5.
    Cleansing of mind by practicing sacred8 principles of Guru’s philosophy 9 is called the real cleansing6 bath7.

    To understand the above phrase, guru qIrQu8 drIAwau9, in its real perspective, let us study the following stanzas of Guru Nanak:

    guru1 pauVI, byVI gurU, guru qulhw hir nwau2 ]
    guru sru swgru boihQo3 guru qIrQu dirAwau ]
    jy iqsu BwvY4 aUjlI5 sqsir6 nwvx7 jwau ]3]
    Aggs, m 1, p-17.
    Here in this stanza Guru Nanak is explaining metphoriclly that Guru’s1 philosophy2 is the ladder, the boat, the balance.
    Sacred pool, sea, and sacred river are the metaphors for Guru’s philosophy, and this philosophy acts as a boat3 to cross the sea of life.
    If you like4 this clean5 philosophy6 then go to cleanse7 your sinful mind by following this philosophy 5, 6.
    AGGS, M 1, p 17.
    Note: qIrQu dirAwau = Tirth Daryao means philosophy of Guru Nanak as follows:

    __________________


     
  5. pk70

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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    namjap ji

    While reading this post, I felt Guru himself spoke to me through these Guru Waak along with the interpretation because metaphors and symbols were beutifully used and interpretted as well. Levels of Sikhi, as some quote frequently on this site, has nothing to do with understanding Gurbani. In Gurbani words are very forceful to convey the intended message. If some one new is asking directions and is told to follow different kinds of directions, where the person will go. As you have started in the beginning about the turmoil times,the Sikhs were not only attacked by fundamentalist Muslims and Hindus physically but also mohants and others (who could not swallow the total revolutions started by Satguru Nanak )fabricated some stories in a way that some Sikhs accepted them as true till those were proved incorrect. Good example is "Sikhan Dee Bhagat Mala"falsely attributed to Shaheed Mani Singh ji.. So Sikhism was a revolt against caste system and incarnation of God philosopy and ritualism. It was a big threat to fundamentalist Hindus. Arya smaji Dayanand almost lost his senses after reading Satguru Nanak and called hima atheist.(in Satyarth Parkash)
    Any interpretation by any one if it goes against Guru Nanak's principles, should not be accepted.
    Your post explicitly shows why a Sikh shouldnt stuck with one word. As in your post you have pointed out, some scholars translate Gurbani without defining the words in special context as cleaning of mind and the prevailing rituals. It is a a joke to declare that people will understand as they grow in Sikhi ! In this context I must give here one short encounter with a Sikh who worships Guru Granth Sahib as a God. I put him a question" we revere our Gurus to the highest esteem because if they were not here, we would have been worshipping snakes, rats and monkeys. You are worshipping Guru Granth Sahib as a God, isnt it against Satguru Nanak's teachings?" His answer totally shocked me. He said" I dont know God, I know Guru Granth Sahib Ji" People will end up here in context of worshipping. They just cannot accept the fact that Sikhs are guided by Guru to worship the creator only. Those nirmlas and mahantas were from high caste. Only they had education in those bad times(for Sikhs). The effect they left on sikh psyche can be felt in a high strength today too.
    Guru Nanak leads Sikhs to Him, in this context Second Nanak says clearly that who is taught by Guru Nanak, what other thing can be taught to hih/her? means he or she doesnt need any other teaching, the perfect teaching is to praise HIM.
    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੨ ॥ ਦੀਖਿਆ ਆਖਿ ਬੁਝਾਇਆ ਸਿਫਤੀ ਸਚਿ ਸਮੇਉ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਕਿਆ ਉਪਦੇਸੀਐ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਉ ॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 150}
    I have loved every line of your post
     
  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    Pk70 Ji,

    What you've expresses here is similar to the quality of gold during different times. Gold which was considered 100% pure had many impurities in the olden times because people had not yet developed the technology to separate those impurities.
     
  7. Sardara123

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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    To me moorakh- these lines tell that he is telling that HE HAS ONLY ONE LOVE. no duja bhao.

    Outer actions are done based on our worldly knowledge and guidance from our society and religion.

    It is the INNER WORSHIP - to me moor it sounds like, he has killed his 'I' and is engrossed in ONE LOVE- GURU JI. Our worldly understanding is not going to take us anywhere, it is the Guru that takes us across.

    GUR KE CHARAN RIDDAY URDHAAR



    SORRY IF THIS HURTS ANYBODY'S BELIEFS.
     
  8. Sikh80

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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    Respected Namjap ji,
    Thanks for presenting a nice post and an article.
    I checked up the site. Is their any other Gurbani related material.? I could not find anything besides the article quoted by you.


    Please suggest any other site for Gurbani related material. It would be very helpful.
     
  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ


    Now let's see how Late Sant Kirpal Singh of Ruhani Satsang group interpreted these two verses as above :

    Stanza 6

    In this stanza, Nanak develops more fully the paradox just touched upon in stanza IV. One cannot attain union with God through the observance of certain outward actions, viz: reading of scriptures, saying of prayers, going on pilgrimages, observance of silence, fasts and vigils, performance of rites and rituals, all of which but form part of Apra Vidya which prepare the ground for creating interest for higher life and developing devotion. You may make the best use of them. But these outer acts cannot give emancipation. They are by themselves meaningless. What matters is His glance of Grace. If one has received this, one is blessed indeed. And yet, if Salvation depends on God's love alone, let us not live in idleness. A life of inertia can lead nowhere and God helps those who help themselves. No doubt Salvation is achieved only through Grace, yet one must make oneself worthy of the same. And the only way to make oneself worthy is by following the Path taught by a true Master. By becoming conscious of the Divine Plan, we make His Will our own.
    Stanza VI

    • If I may only please Him, 'tis pilgrimage enough;
      If not, nothing-no rites or toils-avails;
      Whichever way I look, I find that in His creation,
      None has won salvation without His Grace-regardless of Karmas.(1)
      You can discover untold Spiritual riches within yourself;
      If you but abide by the teachings of your Master.(2)
      My Master has taught me one lesson:
      He is the Lord of everything, may I never forget Him.
    1. Karma: Action. This term in Indian thought refers to a very complex Hindu doctrine. It emphasizes belief that our present actions determine our future, not only in this life but in the life to come. There is nothing like chance. Man works according to a chain of cause and effect. Though spiritual salvation is not possible without Grace, yet, says Nanak, we must deserve that Grace by our Karmas or actions in this life or the lives preceding.
    2. Guru: This term makes its appearance frequently in the Jap Ji and indeed is freely used in all the Sikh scriptures. It stands for a spiritual teacher and whenever Nanak uses it, He does not mean any person who sets up as a spiritual guide, but one who has reached the highest plane in the spiritual journey, who is no longer separate from the Almighty and has become His mouthpiece.

    Stanza 21


    Good actions like acts of mercy and charity although commendable in themselves do not have an important bearing on the highest spiritual attainment. They cease to be of consequence once the soul begins its inner journey from the "Til" or the third eye: "If therefore thine eye be single thy whole body shall be full of Light." Matt 6:22. Borne along the Current of the Word, the soul reaches "Amrit-saar" or "Amritsar" or the Fount of Nectar, the Amritsar in man. There any impurities that may be still clinging to the soul are finally washed away. Thus the soul is made fit for the onward journey to the highest spiritual plane of "Sat Naam" which is of ineffable greatness and glory.
    STANZA XXI

    • Pilgrimages, austerities, mercy, charity and alms-giving,
      cease to be of any consequence, when one gets an ingress
      into the Til - the Inner Eye ;(1)
      Communion with and practice of the Holy Word, with heart full
      of devotion, procures admittance into the Inner Spiritual Realms,
      washing away the dirt of sins at the Sacred Fount (2) within.
     
  10. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Sikh80 Ji,

    You may want to look into and post from Osho's intepretation of these stanzas from his book - japji by Osho.
    :: Osho World Online ::
     
  11. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Thanks namjap ji,

    Kindly suggest few more sites for the benefit of the Sangat.
    I shall check the reply after a few minutes.
    Logging off for a cup of tea.
     
  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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  13. Archived_Member1

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    no offense intended...

    but why do sikhs need to learn to interpret gurbani from a hindu baba who spent his life accumulating fancy cars and money and women as trophys?
     
  14. Archived_Member1

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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    is it safe to assume that your words are directed at my posts? as i have repeated, i'm very new and not as knowledgeable as you in this, but please bear with me.

    most of us simply cannot become brahmgyani the moment we open Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. it takes time to learn and grow. just as with any knowledge or understanding, it takes time, practice, a desire to learn. please do not assume that because it takes fools like me time to understand the complexities of Gurbani that it is in any way related to worshipping anything other than Akal Purakh. i recite mool mantar hundreds of times in a day. there is only one God. i know that, we all know that. our stage of spiritual development has nothing to do with our faith or belief in God.

    i appologize if i have misunderstood your post, but please do not mistake the fact that some of us are new learners with those who do not understand the singular nature of God.

    and in the future, please feel free to address me directly rather than in round about ways in unrelated topics. :)

    fateh!
     
  15. spnadmin

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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    Jasleen ji

    With all due respect to other perspectives, there will be very few people in your life time, my life time, who will be Brahmagyani -- ever. This is not a criticism of what you are saying. It is in support of your idea, that we are all moving along a path to deeper understanding. Some faster than others. Some more sophisticated than others. Some better at words than others. I think you have the right idea.

    There has been an on-going discussion of whether Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Guru in the big sense. I have been thinking on my own about the different ways many of the participants in this conversation understand the question and how they arrive at an answer. One piece that is missing from this conversation, on all the threads, maybe Ekmusafirji has come closest to talking about it, is that there is a layer of mysticism in making connections between Guruji and God. This is only grasped in silence and by sudden awakening and intuition.

    I wonder if it can be shared with words?
     
  16. Archived_Member1

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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    i agree with this... but i think it's important to remember that we all have the potential to become brahmgyani... though as you say, most of us will not reach it in this lifetime. :)

    i agree, there is a spiritual transformation that takes place... mystical is a good word for it. my husband describes it as being a "live wire", meaning one is sort of "plugged in" directly to the ultimate. think of the RED PHONE in old movies, the line directly to the big boss. :D
    they are aware of things the rest of us cannot comprehend. they have reached the stage where "sabh gobind hai" is more than mere words, but they literally see God in everything.

    i think a big part of beginning this transformation is to stop understanding gurbani with our minds, and start feeling it in our hearts. someone was talking about crying when reading gurbani.... i think this is the first step on that path. we fight it with our minds when we should be embracing it in our hearts.

    hope this makes some kind of sense, it's just kind of flowing out...
     
  17. Astroboy

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    ਸਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਰੂਪੁ
    सरम खंड की बाणी रूपु ॥
    Saram kẖand kī baṇī rūp.
    In the realm of humility, the Word is Beauty.

    ਤਿਥੈ ਘਾੜਤਿ ਘੜੀਐ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ
    तिथै घाड़ति घड़ीऐ बहुतु अनूपु ॥
    Ŧithai gẖāṛaṯ gẖaṛī­ai bahuṯ anūp.
    Forms of incomparable beauty are fashioned there.

    ਤਾ ਕੀਆ ਗਲਾ ਕਥੀਆ ਨਾ ਜਾਹਿ
    ता कीआ गला कथीआ ना जाहि ॥
    Ŧā kī­ā galā kathī­ā nā jāhi.
    These things cannot be described.

    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ
    जे को कहै पिछै पछुताइ ॥
    Jė ko kahai picẖẖai pacẖẖuṯā­ė.
    One who tries to speak of these shall regret the attempt.

    ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ
    तिथै घड़ीऐ सुरति मति मनि बुधि ॥
    Ŧithai gẖaṛī­ai suraṯ maṯ man buḏẖ.
    The intuitive consciousness, intellect and understanding of the mind are shaped there.

    ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਾ ਸਿਧਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥੩੬॥
    तिथै घड़ीऐ सुरा सिधा की सुधि ॥३६॥
    Ŧithai gẖaṛī­ai surā siḏẖā kī suḏẖ. ||36||
    The consciousness of the spiritual warriors and the Siddhas, the beings of spiritual perfection, are shaped there. ||36||


    Pray for Truth and Saysatsriakaal.
    Dear Sadh Sangat Ji,

    I need further explanation on this. Please assist.

    In the realm of humility, the Word is Beauty.

    What kind of humility is required to witness beauty of the Word.

    Forms of incomparable beauty are fashioned there.

    Where is 'there' ?
     
    #16 Astroboy, Mar 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  18. pk70

    pk70
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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    Jasleen_kKaaur ji

    I just cleared my position in context of meditation, it doesnt mean you are wrong or I am right. There is another thing. Dont feel ever that being a new to it, you cannot be better than those who claim to be knowledheable.
    Your point actually helped me to make my stand more clear, I thank you for that.
     
  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    Jasleen ji

    You said

    i think a big part of beginning this transformation is to stop understanding gurbani with our minds, and start feeling it in our hearts. someone was talking about crying when reading gurbani.... i think this is the first step on that path. we fight it with our minds when we should be embracing it in our hearts.

    I wholeheartedly agree.
     
  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Interpretation Of Gurbani Differ

    Nam Jap ji

    Also mysterious

    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ
    Jė ko kahai picẖẖai pacẖẖuṯā*ė.
    One who tries to speak of these shall regret the attempt.

    It is almost as if these 4 lines are like the Grecian Urn -- which remains silent as we try to unlock the secret of her story.
     
    #19 spnadmin, Mar 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016

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