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In Sikhism, is there a Soul? Who created the Soul? Who controls the Soul?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by seeker3k, Oct 8, 2011.

  1. seeker3k

    seeker3k
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    There can be millions question on this question but I am looking for personal answers.
    Where was the soul before the birth? Where will it go after one die? Does every living thing have soul? Humans, animals and vegetation
     
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  3. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Veera personally I don't recall, one day I will know the answer, but then I won't have time for the question.
     
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  4. seeker3k

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Honest reply
    thanks
     
  5. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Seeker3k ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    First of all I want to thank you for the intriguing questions. In order for all of us to interact and find the answers, I have a couple of questions for you for elaboration and clarification. I hope you do not mind responding to them so we can make this thread interesting where more people can participate and share their views.

    What is Soul for you as a person and what has been your understanding of Soul?

    Have your views regarding the Soul changed with time, knowledge and age? If they have, then in what way?

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  6. Seeker9

    Seeker9 United Kingdom
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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    I will share some personal thoughts with the disclaimer that I may not explain them as clearly as I would like as I am still thinking this through, and hope to develop my understanding with help from other posters...so please bear with me ...

    For now, all I would say is that when talking about the Soul, it is easy to personify it or give it attributes of another kind of species. To me it's a kind of Energy of the same kind as the Original Source that it came from. Like other kinds of energy (e.g wind, solar, nuclear etc) there are things you have to do to access and harness this Energy....but the technology is completely different....call it a "Spirtual technology" if you like

    And just as you experience things when you access the other forms of energy, e.g heat, noise etc when you access this Energy, you may experience things like light, sounds, colours etc when you meditate

    So that's some scene setting...

    Now to the specific questions in this thread which I will attempt to answer as best as I can..but I will cheat with one answer....in Physics (First Law of Thermodynamics), Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms

    Where was the soul before the birth?
    Where will it go after one die?

    When the physical body dies the Soul Energy moves to another physical body


    Does every living thing have soul? Humans, animals and vegetation?

    I believe this Soul Energy is present in all living things


    I look forward to reading further posts on this thread, including some thoughts from Brother Seeker 3k Ji as to his understanding of the Soul and how he would answer the questions he set
     
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    #5 Seeker9, Oct 8, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  7. Astroboy

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    First of all, mind asks the questions about Soul but Soul is beyond the mind.

    In Sikhism, an individual is referred as Jeev, (Plural - JeeaaN as Sabhna JeeaaN Ka Ek Daata....)
    The translation of Jeev is Soul or Soul-Bride.
    Thus it appears in Sikhism that Gurbani refers to us as Souls but also advises the mind to follow the Guru's teachings and not be misled by Maya's snares.
     
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  8. Ishna

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    This question has been bothering me for a while.

    My current thought is there is no personal soul as in unique energy-being which is transferred from one living host to another via death/rebirth.

    As everything on Earth (including our bodies) is made of carbon which has been here since the earth began (with additions from space every now and then), I feel the same is true for souls, which like Seeker9 ji said, is an energy. It's the morsel of jyot which is infused in everything. It is not unique to your personality, when YOU die, YOU die, your molecules are re-circulated into creation and your jyot is re-circulated. Like a drop of water, it goes back into the ocean, from whence drops emerge.

    It's a cold idea because everyone wants to have eternal life which is provided by the soul. Everyone wants to think their essence will continue on. People like the idea of the bad guy's soul being punished some how, especially when he's avoided his punishment in life.

    At the very least, honestly we don't know and can only speculate.

    My personal thoughts and they have no foundation in Gurbani at this stage.
     
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  9. seeker3k

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?


    This is forum I will not get into debate. You can post your thoughts if you don’t have personal experience
     
  10. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Seeker3k ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I do not know where you got this notion about debate. No body is debating here. I simply asked you your understanding about the meaning of soul so I can understand it better. It is you who has put the question about soul.

    So, let's work on this together.

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  11. seeker3k

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    I am not expert in Sikhism. That’s why I asked this question. Many people (none Sikh) ask me what I think about the soul in Sikhism.
    <?"urn::eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p> </o:p>
    The 3 major religions Jews, Christian, Muslims. Claim that their God told them they will not be reborn. They have to wait for the judgment day. Then you will be raised and be saved. It don’t satisfy me. Hindus have very elaborate system about the soul. They claim soul will be born n die n born again and again till they have learned what is needed for them to get mukti. It can take millions of years. Sikhs claim that they are not Hindus. So I wanted to know what is the soul’s fate in Sikhism.
    Here there have to be many experts in Sikhism to know what the gurbani say about it.
    Most tell me that God create soul. Then it must be God who control the soul. God chose the life for us. Some one said here that we don’t have personal soul. When one die he just die that’s all. If that is the case then why we need to study the holy books and do the naam simran? If good soul and bad soul end up in same place then don’t need to waste time doing naam simran. Bani tell us to do the naam simran.???
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Most religions claim there is One God. If they are right then how come one God give 2 and more message to humans. He tells Jews, Christian and Muslim that they will not be reborn. And tell Hindus they will be reborn over and over. The 3<SUP>rd</SUP> message to Sikhs. Some be reborn and some will not be reborn.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    What the God was thinking when he created us? There has to be some kind of system. But looks like no one knows what that system is.
     
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    #10 seeker3k, Oct 9, 2011
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  12. Ambarsaria

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    seeker3k ji I find your title and your question little confusing,

    Title:


    Body of Post:
    So if one were to reply to the title one has to provide interpretation of Sikhism as considered opinion or belief. But if one answers the body of your post one can address without much consideration of Sikhism and simply state one's belief or understanding.

    So one way or another the answers can be manipulated to create a Sikhism impression or what people think.

    So which one is your end goal? As Agnostic why people would ask you questions about religions which firmly believe in a creator is unclear? Do you have a Sikh persona and non-Sikh beliefs or understandings as that may be the root cause of confusion between you and whoever is asking for your expert opinion on Sikhism.

    Why don't you come clean and say I am not a Sikh and cannot give you an answer if such is the case versus passing along other people's answers without believing in these.

    Some known aspects from other threads with reasonable consensus:

    • Sikhism does not believe in re-incarnation or trans-migration of souls or such
    • Sikhism does not believe in Karma of so called past lives or carrying it forward to future lives
    • There are great many references to an inner self (jyot, etc.) that is co-joined with rest of creation during life as a commonality in addition to "one noor" or "one source" of all creation before, during and after life
    I do not know if these help in your quest.

    Please clarify so that this thread develops suitably and productively.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  13. Ishna

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?



    Seeker3k

    Just elabourating my personal thoughts on this point and then I will be quiet.

    Guru Arjun Dev Ji says this precious human life we have is our chance to meet the Divine. Don't waste it! he says. We study Gurbani to try and live with the higher awareness of Naam constantly (naam simran). It brings peace, steadfastness, sublime observation of Naam moving with creation which brings an inner knowing of being part of it all and it's awesome.

    Good people, bad people, they're all just people, and I feel very sorry for those people who can't see through the illusion and grasp the wonderous in this life. Naam Simran isn't wasting time, it's an amazing level of awareness (which I'm yet to reach).

    I think, the goal is to make death a smooth transition. If you have peace and naam simran, death is just another thing, it's not something to be scared of. It's not about worrying what you might be reincarnated into. It's not about worrying whether you will or won't get into heaven.

    But those are my personal thoughts and possibly slightly off-topic, so I will leave it there.

    Ishna
     
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  14. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Ishna Ji ,Gurbani is to make your precious life smooth and divine, now to death, if you have peace in life death is just a smooth transition.
     
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  15. Harry Haller

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    This is only my own very personal opinion, and like Ishnabhenji, is no way influenced by Gurbani, but the Guru Jyot I feel inside, when I find these feelings tally up with Gurbani, I feel very happy and content indeed, When they do not, then I realise I am missing some information, knowledge, or Gyan that I need to read up on as my understanding is clearly not correct.,

    I have noticed that parts of my 'soul' (if my soul means who I am, the thing that makes me different from say Sinnerji, we obviously have different characters, traits, likes dislikes), come from many members of my family. I look like a cross between my mothers younger brother and my fathers elder brother, although, when younger I looked like my fathers twin. My dads elder brother was also like me when he was younger, so my soul must be made up of generations of souls. Do they all live in me? I can feel my fathers soul, and my mothers soul sometimes, but they are still alive!, and also, I am childless, and I am pretty sure being childless does not bar your soul from carrying on, or does it?

    Sometimes I meet a kindred spirit, and realise my soul also lives in them, again, they may not be family, so the DNA question goes out of the window.

    I can only conclude that a baby is born, it has a soul, made up of the DNA of its parents, a small moral compass, and access to say 1/3 of its brain, of its true potential, I think it was seeker3k that asked if a man who was deaf and dumb and blind could be a good sikh, I think he could , I think if you meditate on that moral compass which I would call Guru (not sure which one prakashji, however I would be delighted for you to tell me, and, no, I am not joking, I think there is something in the Gur Guru Guroo post, although Ambersariaji growling is always a sure fire way of sorting the wheat from the chaff), then I think you will find Bani and ultimately Gurubani, lets be honest, we did not need Guru to tell us most of things that we embrace, truth , honesty, bravery, all these things and more are all stored away in our heads, just waiting to be accessed, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a written living embodiment of that information. Isaac Newton noted gravity, he did not discover it, it already existed before he noted it, so, I think Guru's knowledge exists in our head already, we just need to keep an eye out for dropping apples.

    So all is well, you go through life, you learn, you unveil the information internally, you find it matches the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, all is good, and then you die, do you zip back into another baby, no, I do not buy that, that baby is the product of years of breeding and DNA, so you are left with either nothing, or something else, nothing seems harsh given you have a lifetime of knowledge under your belt, then again, nothing seems lenient if you have a lifetime of giving pain. Seeker mentioned that energy cannot be destroyed or created, does the brain have an energy that can be quantified? does a hard drive containing data weigh anymore than a hard drive with no data, could it weigh less???

    The only rational explanation I can offer to myself at this present time is that as humans we see only a small part of what is going on. There could be more things going on around us that we are not aware off, this is not magic, this is physics, if things exist that are vibrating at a level that cannot be seen or felt, then we would be unaware of them. Maybe death liberates us from this world, and we exist as jyot. But then what about retribution, what about rewards for the good and punishment for the bad, I do not believe there is any divine retribution, but in some way, just as when you kick a dog, you may get bitten, then our actions in our lifetime someway influence our spiritual being afterwards, and that, I am afraid, is as far as I can take that particular theory
     
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  16. Seeker9

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?


    Dear Seeker3k Ji

    There is a distinction to be made between the Abrahaminic Religions and Sikhism in terms of compositiion and age

    Did the Prophet write the Qu'ran? Did Jesus write the New Testament? Did YHWH write the Torah with fiery finger?

    How much have the Scriptures changed over time?

    How confident can we be the original message is still there in its purest form?

    I don't want to hijack this thread but wanted to respond to some of the points you raised
     
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    #15 Seeker9, Oct 9, 2011
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  17. Harry Haller

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Sinnerji these quotes of yours worry me ever so slightly, and I do not agree with either statement,

    Gurbani is to make your precious life smooth and divine...

    I would say that Gurbani is to make your precious life mean something, and to give you the tools to deal with the many hurdles and challenges you will go through. Gurbani is not magic, chanting incantations and meditating with your fingers in your ears is not suddenly going to transform your life into divine, but that is only my opinion

    If you have peace in life, death is just a smooth transition,

    uhmm tell that to the many peace loving people who have lost lives in civil unrest, wars, rapes, riots, all people in the wrong place at the wrong time

    the trouble with life is that there is no divine, no smoothness, no easy quick transitions, it is hard, and sometimes peace is taken away from you, you react according to Gurbani as to whether to fight for peace, fight for life, these all encompassing statements, to me, seem like the very quotes that you hear from sants and babas trying to peddle their 'way'

    no offence intended brotherji, I know we can speak frankly to each other
     
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  18. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Veera, there is nothing more truly magical than Gurbani ,as it can turn sinners into saints and don't worry about the translation, it is done by a committee of Scholarly Sikhs, so it is unlikely that it is skewed at all ,it is our own reluctance to accept the translation that obstructs us.There may be isolated mistranslation but even that is only exchanging words that usually describe the same course differently.I remember some translations took 10 to 12 years so it requires alot of dedication patience and effort ,only a very devout Sikh could do it.
     
    #17 Scarlet Pimpernel, Oct 9, 2011
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  19. Harry Haller

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    provided it is translated and interpreted with the spirit in which it was written, and the time factor is allowed for, I agree with you 100% my dear little pimpernel.

    otherwise it can turn saints into sinners and hawks into sparrows
    or even worse, give us a world full of sinners and sparrows who think they saints and hawks

    Le Comte de Frou Frou
     
  20. seeker3k

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Was there no one at peace before Nanak?
    Most democratic countries have rules and regulation that can make sinner saint. Only if we abide by those rules.
    What naam simran one have to do to become saint?
    To become good person one has to only control his/her thoughts.
    By the posts I gather that there is no soul in the person.
    That’s good
     
  21. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Re: In Sikhism, is there soul? Who created soul? Who control soul?

    Sorry 3k Veera I got distracted from your original question,there is one and it is the only thing that really exists. Saints also have existed before ,they are the ones who could of the world ,not just follow the laws of the country ,that does not make you a Saint, that makes you just a citizen.
    Saint has realised the truth and is detached from the world but he still obeys societies rules provided they are just. When Guru Nanak arrived he gave us another name for students who have newly enrolled at the School for Saints ,we call them Sikhs.
     
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