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Spiritual Impressions of Gurbani - Sohila

Discussion in 'Blogs' started by Ishna, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    In this first entry in the Impressions of Gurbani series I have described the thoughts that Kirtan Sohila generates in my mind. It is not a translation, and it contains additional information and conclusions I have reached from my own journey and reading of Gurbani.

    Please read it in conjunction with the bani which starts on panna 12 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    I will separate each thought-section according to each shabad within Kirtan Sohila. For people new to Gurbani, the end of each shabad in Sohila is indicated by two numbers appearing like this: ||4||1||, meaning 'the preceeding lines were verse number 4 of the 1st shabad in Sohila.

    Impressions of Gurbani ~ Sohila
    by Ishna

    Within yourself (house) sing praise of the Creator by remembering It and contemplating It. It is fearless and remembering Its qualities brings one peace.
    It takes care of all and gives countless gifts (like air to breathe).
    It calls us to merge with It (to realise Oneness) and the day is coming, so contemplate Its qualities now.
    -1-

    There are many philosophies and religions, but only One Creator, so focus on the philosophy that brings you in touch with It through remembering It.
    -2-

    Instead of a human-made ritual, the whole of Creation is in worship of It.
    It is within everyone, and also beyond everyone.
    The Guru teaches us to see the light within ourselves and then we can see It everywhere. Seeing this light is the real pleasing worship of It.
    One should thirst for It - for the light within - and beg for grace.
    -3-

    The Guru will teach you to remove your lust and rage. Learn from It carefully and treasure It.
    People who don't learn suffer pain of not perceiving the Oneness (they perceive separation instead).
    People who learn realise It and become fearless. They realise they belong to It and take sustenance and support from that realisation, which bring peace.
    -4-

    Everyone, learn from the Guru now and live the life It teaches to dwell in peace before (and after) you die. Know It, rather than the cynical world. Know It in your inner being, and be free. Pray for it.
    -5-
     
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    #1 Ishna, Aug 22, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
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  3. Original

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    Pyere Ishna Ji

    I welcome your start to "Impressions of Gurbani" and wish you all the wonderful joys n happiness that you will encounter along the journey. It takes a noble mind to undertake a task such as this, and that too, by the grace of God. Consider yourself fortunate and worthy - God bless you.

    I hope you'll allow me the liberty to add some historical imperatives for the sake of completeness and to give direction to your Impressions. Should this enterprise on my part be in any way injurious or incompatible with your current undertaking, then please let me know and I will, with immediate effect, withdraw.

    The word Sohila in its literal meaning is, "song of praise" and is further derived from the everyday usage of the Punjabi language, "saun or sowan vela" [time for sleep]. Guru Nanak Dev Ji composed Kirtan Sohila hymns towards the end of his physical journey; some commonteators suggest that it was whilst Guru a Ji was on his deathbed and I think in light of the hymn in itself, together with its mystical message, common sense prevails in supporting that view.

    There are in total 5 hymns, 3 of Gur Nanak, 1 of Gur Ram Das and 1 of Gur Arjun. Kirtan Sohila is recited at bedtime, where as Rehras an evening recitation and Shabd hazara together with Jap Ji Sahib in the morning.

    The idea that Kirtan Sohila ought to be recited before bedtime was contingent for who knows whether one would wake from sleep or not. This way at least, the separated bride [soul, atman, person going to sleep] will in all eventuality meet her bridegroom [parmatma, God] whatever the outcome. And, hence, forms an important conceptualised doctrinal within Sikh theology. Moreover, at the time of cremation it is Kirtan Sohila which is recited because the departed soul is now ready to go and meet her beloved.

    The rationale behind calling it "song of praise", meaning "khushi da geet" was derived from the ordinary cultural and customary practice of the day within Indian society. Traditional weddings within Punjabi society were celebrated magnificently where decorations, folklore song n dance, exchanges of various types and formalities galore were considered the real deals for uniting the bride and the groom in a soleminised marriage. Similarly, Guru Nanak chose this particular social event to zeal it connotation-ally religious because of the "union" of the two in becoming one. Song of praise is for He the groom from whom the bride [soul] departed and is now merging. Praise n glory be to He - sing therefore songs of my beloved.

    Question ! Become one with who ? With God - Anhad Shabd ! Says who ? Says, Guru Amardas Ji :

    ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਛੰਤ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥ ਹਮ ਘਰੇ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਹਿਲਾ ਸਾਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਧਨ ਪਿਰ ਮੇਲੁ ਭਇਆ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥

    Question ! Where is it to be found ?

    ਏਹੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਹਿਲਾ ਸਾਚੈ ਘਰਿ ਗਾਵਹੁ ॥ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਤ ਸੋਹਿਲਾ ਘਰਿ ਸਾਚੈ ਜਿਥੈ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੇ ॥੩੯॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 922}

    Question ! Where is this house [ਘਰਿ, house] ?

    ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ ਨਉ ਦਰ ਠਾਕੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥ ਦਸਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਓਥੈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 124}

    Hope I've been able to shed some light on what is the B n E of all - Anhad Shabd - atman parmatma. Song of praise, meaning Kirtan Sohila is to that endeavour.

    Enjoy the day -
     
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  4. Tejwant Singh

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    Original ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Pardon my ignorance, but would you be kind enough to put into sync your thoughts along with what Ishna ji's has started because together they seem a bit muddled for a lay man like me? Thanks.

    Secondly, if Sohilla was penned by Guru Nanak just before his last breath as per you, then shouldn't it be sung only when one is dying or did Guru Nanak know when his time was up which sounds a bit like prophecy which is not part of Sikhi?

    Lastly, who decided which shabad is to be read in the morning, in the evening, at night etc. etc. because we recite all of them during the morning during our Akhand Paaths?

    Thanks

    Tejwant Singh
     
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    #3 Tejwant Singh, Aug 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  5. Original

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    Respected Tejwant Singh - consider yourself pardoned, if indeed ignorance is by virtue the operative word here, but otherwise, please accept without prejudice, my disinclination to advance into any premeditated arguments.

    For the record, on my part, let me be absolutely clear, Sikhism ascribes to both "granth" and "panth" as GURU. Allow me therefore, the liberty to "believe" in what I want to believe and likewise I allow you the liberty to believe in what you want, there are no arguments to be had. Discussions are entertainable provided we both believe in the granth-panth ideology. The granth n panth [miri piri] is central to Sikh ideology, that is not say, the panth cannot at times be out of sync with contemporary or indeed with wider Sikh perception, but is nevertheless, an integral part without which Sikhism as an ideology is dysfunctional. From a sociologist's perspective this'd be known as the individual and the state [panth]. Sikhism has a social function albeit within cosmopolitan social arrangement - depends how one see oneself.

    Which bit are you muddled with ?
    Kindly, reread my text and note I used the word commontators and secondly familarise yourself with Sikh history. Admittedly of course, the writings may not be all consistent and accurate per se, but given the long n short of it all, it sets the scene of what Nanak was and what Nanak is, albeit, evolved for better and forever. Nakak was, Nanak is and Nanak will be - make what you will of past, present and the future.
    As regards KS - read it, digest it and question it, why composed ? Look at the simile, metaphor, content, imagery and the circumstance - the penny'll drop !
    Does it matter who decided ? Once we were primates who behaved willy-nilly, do you question the behaviour or appreciate the transformation from an ape like animal to a civil human being ? Similarly, if the panth has been practicing recitation of certain hymns in certain formats, suerly evolution will advance the most favourable. But because the candle has lost its evolutionary niche on having paved the way for the electric bulb doesn't mean it'd be disregarded. Likewise, traditional sikhism is not to be disregarded but understood for it is the most beautiful part to an endless journey.

    Goodnight n Godbless
     
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  6. Tejwant Singh

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    Original ji,
    Guru Fateh.

    You write:


    When one writes something like the learned person as you are then one should not shy away from the questioning of that write up, rather one should be up front with all honesty and candor. So, again pardon my ignorance but I fail to grasp this defensive mode on your part. Anyway,let's continue, shall we?


    I have no idea why you seem a bit upset. Sikhi is nothing to do with any belief system. Pragmatism is for all Sikhs to delve into. Beliefs become blind faiths which Guru Nanak was totally against since the time he refused to wear the janieo. So I have no idea what you are trying to convey above.

    When did this ideology Of Granth- Pranth got sealed according to you before we delve further into it? Was it from the start by Guru Nanak or much later? Only by knowing the history one can further discuss where you are trying to lead us with your argument.

    Having said that, Miri- Piri in my view has nothing to do with Granth-Panth. The former was carved by Guru Nanak and named as such by our 6th Guru Hargobind. Where as Granth-Panth combination is concerned, it came much later. So, let's stick to the personal behaviour of a Sikh in the realm of Miri-Piri, as a Peace Warrior for the time being..

    Are you trying to imply that I am not familiar with the Sikh history as you are because this is not the first time you have implied this?

    If I am not mistaken, you mean Gurbani by our Gurus. Right?


    This is the interesting part in your post. First you ask to establish the Sikh history and now when asked about it, you reject it totally in a nonchalant manner as if it means nothing to the Sikhs. Which one is it? But more importantly, although it is called Keertan Sohilla by many, especially stamped on the Gutkas, in fact it is just Sohilla. So, let's address it as such.

    Original ji, why do you want to compel others to see the things through only your lens? Please allow them the courtesy and I hope you will respect them for that, to see the things they way they see fit as you would.

    .

    Once again you are shying away from something that you insisted on sharing, which is, Sikh history in the beginning . It may not matter to you about the compilation of which paath to do when but I am curious as a Sikh historian as all Sikh historians should be, given our history is so youthful that we can separate the long tales from the actual events.

    What does your comparison from ape to human have to do with our conversation besides having some historical and fascinating events behind it?

    Once again you bring up Panth without giving any historical data about it. Please provide something to back your argument with. When and how are key questions about this Granth- Panth marriage come into enforcement and how Sikhi was before and after this occurrence?

    As far as Sohilla is concerned, in my view and I did mention this before many many years ago here. that a Sikh opens his/her day book when he/she gets up in the morning and closes it after 1. Naam Japnah, 2. Kirat Karni. 3. Vand kei Chakanah by reciting Sohilla where a Sikh says," Deo sajjan assirian jei hovei sahib seu meil". In other words, if I die in my sleep, I would feel blessed.

    The reason of this is very important as the prevalent religions in India then and now; Hindu and Islam both have fear of death unlike in Sikhi where a Sikh welcomes death.

    Ishna ji,

    Kudos to your insightful efforts towards Sohilla. We learn a lot from you. Please keep it up.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  7. Original

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    Dear Tejwant,

    Forgive me if I've come across as being a grumpy sausage, truth is, metaphysical n the transcendental truths cannot be argued but believed, sorry. I therefore, from an epistemological perspective, refrain from entertaining such an undertaking. On the contrary however, I'm forever discussing n advocating the way of Gur Ghar in its spiritual endeavours, that is, the unity of humankind, purpose and meaning of human birth.

    Time allowing, have a read of "understanding sikhism" [SPN] in which I've attempted to show why both emperical study and rationality fall short of qualifying as means to prove the objectivity of the absolute n the transcendental [Ikonkar]. Of course, you being a pragmatist may struggle to get your head around the perishable n the imperishable world view within which Sikhism was found, that is not say, you're wrong and I'm right, no, not at all, but is vis-a-vis, theological axioms. And, the beauty of the diversity in creation is its intellectual independence - you have yours and I have mine.

    I'm delighted to learn that you consider yourself to be a scholar of Sikh history and wish you the very best and hope you'll succeed where others have striven. Sikh history can definitely do with surgical improvisation within the confines of conventional legislation. And, it was in that regard a disposition, I responded to I J Singh's article on the same, thus:

    "...no society could possibly survive without knowledge of its own past. The need to rewrite Sikh History in a scholarly method is becoming increasingly important now than ever before. Number of reasons spring to mind, the chief of which, in my opinion is its universal message.

    This enterprise would certainly help to explain why right back to the earliest writings, long before the development of History as a discipline, various writers preoccupied themselves with preserving and recounting stories of past activities of the Sikh Gurus. Fact and fiction are so interwoven in their life stories that it is virtually impossible to separate the two. What they provided was an attempt to describe the past as they saw and witnessed. And, not necessarily its rational interpretation as would be from a discipline persective. If any credible literature is to be endorsed and accepted as good history, it has to be the vars of Bhai Gurdas Ji. The authenticity found in his writings on the life of Guru Nanak seems plausible to probable where his main focus has been on the teachings of Guru Nanak rather than his biographical account. It would appear necessary for this type of historical literature to be preserved for the continuity and the progress of Sikh Society as a whole. If history is necessary in this way, then it would seem sensible in complex modern day societies at any rate for the history to be as accurate, as scholarly and as disciplined as possible; as you've rightly observed.

    Your article .....is a qualifier with the views and virtues of modern day Sikhism. And, this I sincerely hope will prompt a more fertile and competent mind to supersede past historians to produce quality Literature..."


    Human evolution was a linear progression from small-brained tree climbers to bipedal big brained modern humans, historical perspective therefore, is fundamental. It gives us our bearings from the time we left Africa to where we are today, makes us more human within the wider meaning of the term human beings in a social context, dresses us up from nakedness ape and stops us from floating in this vast expanse of the universe. If this view be correct, then ought not Sikhism on account it being theological to concern itself with the whole of time rather than with so short a span of human history, a mere nothing ?

    I'm sorry I've not attended to any of your recent comments directly because what I am you're not, that is, I believe in both Granth [spiritual,1430 or 1429 pages] and Panth [temporal, prehistoric lot] and you don't, I believe in the mile long Ardas and you don't, I believe and accept that my ancestors were simpletons who believed in anything and everything without qualifications and they were backwards and still are, you don't, you're a pragmatist and I'm not. Despite all the odds n sods I love n respect you no less coz you see it all but with your coloured shades and I without.

    Let us respect one another for who we are and not for what we are !

    Goodnight n Godbless

    PS - enjoyed your write-up on Ishna G's cabbie-barbie. Beautifully written -
     
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  8. Tejwant Singh

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    Original ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for the response. I was reluctant at first to respond but after re-reading your post as a response to mine forced me to do it because there are so many inaccuracies, flip flopping in your post and not answering the questions asked in many of my posts is making me do this. I apologise in advance because I mean no offence. The beauty of this wonderful forum SPN is that we can interact openly and learn from each other.

    Would you be kind enough to elaborate the above with the help of SGGS, our only Guru. I know I have asked you the questions regarding 'Beliefs' in Sikhi in many of my posts but the questions have been ignored. I hope it is not the case this time as your professional background demands that from yourself.

    I apologise once again, I have no idea what you mean by the above. Are you implying that some of the members do not do that? Please use SGGS to teach us what you mean.

    I am sorry but I re read the thread you mentioned above, I see nothing that you claim here. Would you be kind enough to do it again?

    Orginal ji,

    It is sad to notice that you have determined my incapacity to grasp things the way you want me to. Here in your own words, "to you being a pragmatist may struggle to get your head around the perishable n the imperishable world view within which Sikhism was found"
    What do you mean by the above? Please simplify for a simpleton like me.

    I would ask you the same questions and also add some more which I have done before without getting any response from you.

    1. Was Guru Nanak a Pragmatist when he refused to wear the Janeiu at the tender age of 8?
    2. Was Guru Nanak a Pragmatist when he started throwing the water?
    3. Was Guru Nanak a Pragmatist when he was in Mecca and asked the mullah to put his feet towards the direction where there was no Allah?
    4. Was Guru Arjan a Pragmatist when he was put on a hot plate?
    5. Was Guru Teg Bahadur a Pragmatist when he offered his life so the Kashmiri Pundits could worship whoever they wanted to?
    6. Is not going to pilgrimages and practicing mechanical rituals as it is a common practice in Hinduism, Islam a Pragmatic thought process instilled to us by our visionary Gurus?
    7. Is Sikhi based on questioning as started by Guru Nanak or not?

    One can go on and on but this will suffice for now. I hope you respond to each of the questions above from your personal perspective, the Sikh you are through only Gurmat values in the SGGS.

    Original ji, now you are making things up for the reasons only known to you. I never said I was a Scholar, ever. I said I am a Sikh historian as all of us are if we are Sikhs. The proof is in the above questioning. Sikhi is a unique way of life where our Gurus rejected the following:
    1. They never called themselves Gurus but just by numbers. Only Bhattvani mentions them as Gurus in the SGGS.
    2. They never talked about themselves in a Me-ism manner but rather gave us tools to become better people in a Pragmatic manner.
    3. Sikh history (the questions above) is oral history which was passed on to others. They never had historians or portrait painters either to write about their lives and/or to paint their portraits which the Mughal era was famous for during the birth of Sikhi.

    So, any part of Sikh History that contradicts the Gurmat values in the SGGS is concocted by someone and should be rejected vehemently rather than embracing it. This is the reason perhaps that Guru Amardas beautifully says in anand that a life of a Sikh is not just a high wire event but a Sikh lives and walks on the razor's edge all the times. Is that pragmatism or something else? I would love to hear your view as you claim that you are not a Pragmatist but I must say I am because I follow and practice my Gurus' teachings enshrined in the SGGS, our only Guru.

    This is the very reason I reject the part of the Sikh history where a book called 'Dasam Granth' is believed to be written by Guru Gobind Singh and worshiped by many without a second thought inspite of the nasty/sexual contents which totally contradict the teachings in the SGGS because SGGS gives us the tools on every page to practice in our lives in order to breed goodness within to be shared with others.

    Original ji, do you practice the same from dasam granth? If you do not, then you are not following the teachings of our Gurus I am afraid.I know you believe in this book wholeheartedly where I reject it vehemently.

    The reasons of the above Pragmatic reasoning is worth repeating so that we can ponder on the Gurmat values a bit further as far as the above book called the dasam granth is concerned.

    Our 10th Guru, Guru Gobind Singh who sacrificed his own dad for the freedom of practice of religions by all, sacrificed all his 4 children, added our 9th Guru's poetry to the SGGS on different pages when it was called Adi granth, (Please correct me if I am wrong, you did mention in one of your posts that Guru Arjan Dev ji left some pages blank so that our 10th Guru could add Gurbani which I would need an explanation from you for better understanding).

    He also created the Khalsa Panth by lowering his level to ours and hence raising ours by taking khandei de pahul from the Panj Pyaras as it is well known in Sikh history, did not even add a single word of his own as Sikh history being the witness, that he was a prolific poet and a polyglot -in fact he had 52 poets at Poanta Sahib, but according to your claim he would write a book called dasam granth whose writings contradict the SGGS whom he called as our only Guru through several rehatnaamas.

    Would you be kind enough to explain the above through your Sikhi wisdom?

    Regarding your response to Dr. I. J. Singh's article, I do not think he has read it. If he had, he is very good at interacting. If you like, Aman ji can give you his email address. He happens to be a good friend of mine and a great author. If you have not read any of his books, I would urge you to do that.

    .

    Not only that, you ignored my questions of your claims about the Panth for the reasons only known to you and distorted my questioning to your claims. I never said in my post that I do not believe in the Panth. That is your personal concoction I only asked you the historical side of it.

    Here it is again:

    When did this ideology Of Granth- Pranth got sealed according to you before we delve further into it? Was it from the start by Guru Nanak or much later? Only by knowing the history one can further discuss where you are trying to lead us with your argument.

    Once again, you are crediting me with something that I never said. I have often asked about the origin of Ardaas that we currently use in this forum and the one/s our Gurus used. Please explain your stance above for my better understanding.

    Original ji, you are making things up again which is a sad thing to see especially coming from a well learned Sikh as you are. Please show me where I mentioned the above in any of my posts.

    Yes, I am proudly a pragmatist because I try to emulate my Gurus.

    I agree because we are all Sikhs and in order to understand ourselves better we are taught to be Pragmatic by our Gurus by asking and responding in our interaction, the notion you reject.

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
    #7 Tejwant Singh, Aug 30, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  9. CanadianChap

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    I'm a new member and this is out of topic, but what will happen to us after death, and can show me some science in the guru granth
     
  10. Ishna

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    Hello CanadianChap. A warm welcome to SPN :)

    I am not the best person to answer your question about what happens after death. There are more learned people in this area to reply to you.

    I think this shabad from page 885 is the most direct about death:

    ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    Rāmkalī mėhlā 5.
    Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

    ਪਵਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ
    Pavnai mėh pavan samā▫i▫ā.
    The wind merges into the wind.

    ਜੋਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲਿ ਜਾਇਆ
    Joṯī mėh joṯ ral jā▫i▫ā.
    The light blends into the light.

    ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਹੋਈ ਏਕ
    Mātī mātī ho▫ī ek.
    The dust becomes one with the dust.

    ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੇ ਕੀ ਕਵਨ ਟੇਕ ॥੧॥
    Rovanhāre kī kavan tek. ||1||
    What support is there for the one who is lamenting? ||1||

    ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ਰੇ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ
    Ka▫un mū▫ā re ka▫un mū▫ā.
    Who has died? O, who has died?

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਚਲਤੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    Barahm gi▫ānī mil karahu bīcẖārā ih ṯa▫o cẖalaṯ bẖa▫i▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    O God-realized beings, meet together and consider this. What a wondrous thing has happened! ||1||Pause||

    ਅਗਲੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਖਬਰਿ ਪਾਈ
    Aglī kicẖẖ kẖabar na pā▫ī.
    No one knows what happens after death.


    ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੁ ਭਿ ਊਠਿ ਸਿਧਾਈ
    Rovanhār bẖė ūṯẖ siḏẖā▫ī.
    The one who is lamenting will also arise and depart.

    ਭਰਮ ਮੋਹ ਕੇ ਬਾਂਧੇ ਬੰਧ
    Bẖaram moh ke bāʼnḏẖe banḏẖ.
    Mortal beings are bound by the bonds of doubt and attachment.

    ਸੁਪਨੁ ਭਇਆ ਭਖਲਾਏ ਅੰਧ ॥੨॥
    Supan bẖa▫i▫ā bẖakẖlā▫e anḏẖ. ||2||
    When life becomes a dream, the blind man babbles and grieves in vain. ||2||

    ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਿਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ
    Ih ṯa▫o racẖan racẖi▫ā karṯār.
    The Creator Lord created this creation.

    ਆਵਤ ਜਾਵਤ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ
    Āvaṯ jāvaṯ hukam apār.
    It comes and goes, subject to the Will of the Infinite Lord.

    ਨਹ ਕੋ ਮੂਆ ਮਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ
    Nah ko mū▫ā na marṇai jog.
    No one dies; no one is capable of dying.

    ਨਹ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਹੋਗੁ ॥੩॥
    Nah binsai abẖināsī hog. ||3||
    The soul does not perish; it is imperishable. ||3||

    ਜੋ ਇਹੁ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਸੋ ਇਹੁ ਨਾਹਿ
    Jo ih jāṇhu so ih nāhi.
    That which is known, does not exist.

    ਜਾਨਣਹਾਰੇ ਕਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ
    Jānaṇhāre ka▫o bal jā▫o.
    I am a sacrifice to the one who knows this.

    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਇਆ
    Kaho Nānak gur bẖaram cẖukā▫i▫ā.
    Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt.

    ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ਮਰੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੧੦॥
    Nā ko▫ī marai na āvai jā▫i▫ā. ||4||10||
    No one dies; no one comes or goes. ||4||10||
    Gurbani talks about death extensively. But death is not real, because this is all Akaal Purakh anyway. You are Akaal Purakh, and It never dies. :)

    All that dies is this temporary vehicle of your body, which is just imho a wave of Akaal Purakh anyway. It's all the same really. It's all soup :D
     
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  11. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    ISHNA Ji, Look at the Rahao... is posing the question "who has died??? As in astonishment / disbelief obvious by the statement... something wonderous has happened!) Also look further down it plainly says there is no death... and that part of us (the nonphysical part - soul if you will) continues on. It's that nonphysical part btw which 'experiences / is the 'doer')

    ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    Rāmkalī mėhlā 5.
    Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

    ਪਵਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ
    Pavnai mėh pavan samā▫i▫ā.
    The wind merges into the wind.

    ਜੋਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲਿ ਜਾਇਆ
    Joṯī mėh joṯ ral jā▫i▫ā.
    The light blends into the light.

    ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਹੋਈ ਏਕ
    Mātī mātī ho▫ī ek.
    The dust becomes one with the dust.

    ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੇ ਕੀ ਕਵਨ ਟੇਕ ॥੧॥
    Rovanhāre kī kavan tek. ||1||
    What support is there for the one who is lamenting? ||1||

    ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ਰੇ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ
    Ka▫un mū▫ā re ka▫un mū▫ā.
    Who has died? O, who has died?

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਚਲਤੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    Barahm gi▫ānī mil karahu bīcẖārā ih ṯa▫o cẖalaṯ bẖa▫i▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    O God-realized beings, meet together and consider this. What a wondrous thing has happened! ||1||Pause||

    ਅਗਲੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਖਬਰਿ ਪਾਈ
    Aglī kicẖẖ kẖabar na pā▫ī.
    No one knows what happens after death.


    ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੁ ਭਿ ਊਠਿ ਸਿਧਾਈ
    Rovanhār bẖė ūṯẖ siḏẖā▫ī.
    The one who is lamenting will also arise and depart.

    ਭਰਮ ਮੋਹ ਕੇ ਬਾਂਧੇ ਬੰਧ
    Bẖaram moh ke bāʼnḏẖe banḏẖ.
    Mortal beings are bound by the bonds of doubt and attachment.

    ਸੁਪਨੁ ਭਇਆ ਭਖਲਾਏ ਅੰਧ ॥੨॥
    Supan bẖa▫i▫ā bẖakẖlā▫e anḏẖ. ||2||
    When life becomes a dream, the blind man babbles and grieves in vain. ||2||

    ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਿਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ
    Ih ṯa▫o racẖan racẖi▫ā karṯār.
    The Creator Lord created this creation.

    ਆਵਤ ਜਾਵਤ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ
    Āvaṯ jāvaṯ hukam apār.
    It comes and goes, subject to the Will of the Infinite Lord.

    ਨਹ ਕੋ ਮੂਆ ਮਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ
    Nah ko mū▫ā na marṇai jog.
    No one dies; no one is capable of dying.

    ਨਹ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਹੋਗੁ ॥੩॥
    Nah binsai abẖināsī hog. ||3||
    The soul does not perish; it is imperishable. ||3||

    ਜੋ ਇਹੁ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਸੋ ਇਹੁ ਨਾਹਿ
    Jo ih jāṇhu so ih nāhi.
    That which is known, does not exist.

    (that which is known... this physical world... does not exist, therefore, death of the physical body is false... death does not really exist)

    ਜਾਨਣਹਾਰੇ ਕਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ
    Jānaṇhāre ka▫o bal jā▫o.
    I am a sacrifice to the one who knows this.

    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਇਆ
    Kaho Nānak gur bẖaram cẖukā▫i▫ā.
    Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt.

    ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ਮਰੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੧੦॥
    Nā ko▫ī marai na āvai jā▫i▫ā. ||4||10||
    No one dies; no one comes or goes. ||4||10||

    As you rightly pointed out, ALL is Creator anyway, we have just 'forgotten' that fact. So in reality there is no coming or going... it's all within the mind of the creator... just as a dream happens in our own minds)
    Gurbani talks about death extensively. But death is not real, because this is all Akaal Purakh anyway. You are Akaal Purakh, and It never dies. :) --- this!!!!! But more than just being akal purakh as in star dust - unconscious etc... (ie: the physical bits that make our body up, as that is part of what is false - that which is known - but the very inner being YOU the part of you that says 'I AM' THAT is what never dies)
     
  12. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Can you tell me how this assists you in your everyday life?
     
  13. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    It assists me in this life in numerous ways. Which I will detail below... But first... Can you please tell me where does it say that divine knowledge even has to assist you in this physical life at all?? Aside from not seeing the word 'pragmatic' even once in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I also have never seen anything in Gurbani saying that we must somehow improve our *physical* life at all. In fact, I see the opposite... that we should shun our own Ego, shun our own desire, attachment etc. and help others. So my *physical* life is meaningless. We're not here simply for our enjoyment... we are here for a purpose.

    But to answer your question, Gurbani helps me these ways: I have no fear of death, because I know I will survive beyond it. This allows me to actually live and not *live in fear* of what will eventually happen. Also, by realizing what my purpose here in this life is... to realize the divine within, I can concentrate on the things which will help me achieve that (instead of concentrating on physical pleasures like partying, sex, intoxicants etc.). So I automatically do more simran, paath etc. Realizing that ALL is ONE, makes me humble enough to realize I am no better than the beggar on the side of the street. We are here for the same reason. Although we are ONE, I recognize that we must exist as separate Ego identities while here, so to save unnecessary suffering I am more willing to help those in need. This allows them to be able to experience his Grace and also find the divine. Realizing that matter is not the solid reality we think it is, and seeing that written in Gurbani, that which we 'think is real' is not. It's hope... it's proof of being something much larger than this temporary character. And that realization makes me try harder to embody that. If the purpose is to rise spiritually and kill the illusion of separation to become ONE with the Creator, then caring about the doldrums of day to day life and how to make it better are least of my concerns.

    But again please... show me where Gurbani is proven to be merely about improving your physical everyday life?? Just like the word 'pragmatism' I have never seen that or any mention of improving or assisting your everyday life in Gurbani. But I have seen lots of points telling us not to be attached to this life, not to be attached to this Ego ideneity, not to indulge in the five evils etc. And I HAVE seen plenty of reference to metaphysical ideas.
     
  14. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    why are you arguing with me about different interpretations of bani? if that is your understanding, I respect it, its not mine, but at the moment, I am asking questions to further my understanding, I am sure you have no wish to understand my interpretations, because that is all they are, interpretations, that is all they ever have been, so perhaps you will allow me to understand yours,.

    [Thread debating "pragmatism" and Sikhi is here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/pragmatism-and-sikhism.47525/ This blog thread is supposed to be about Kirtan Sohila. Everyone please try to stay on topic. -Ishna]
     
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    #13 Harry Haller, Dec 15, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2015
  15. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Since it appears from the literal interpretation of second line that at the death of someone, a Brahmgiani is asked to contemplate and consider the departed soul 'ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਚਲਤੁ ਭਇਆ . Now there are three questions. First why a Brahmgiani is asked when birth and death is sole prerogative of Almighty and since everyday millions of people die from where will we get millions of Brahmgianis and second is how will we establish that He is brahmgiani. Third is, in sukhmani sahib we daily read 'brahmgiani aap parmeshwar and 'aap parmeshwar' is 'Brahm da gian'. It means Guru Sahib is not referring to Brahmgiani in human form. So let us introspect and contemplate through bheebek budhi and find out who actually has ' ਚਲਤੁ ਭਇਆ' hypocracy departed and now my thought process has been transformed.

    Please read the whole sabd and that you will find out.
     
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    #14 japjisahib04, Dec 15, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  16. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Does anyone have any comments on the subject of the thread, which is actually Kirtan Sohila? :(
     

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