Veera My apologies I misread you,sometimes I think I'm smart as carrots but I must learn from Sir Harry that there is room for improvement.
I Refuse To Bow To Guru's Pic. Am I Right?
- Thread starter gurtej khubbar
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Veera My apologies I misread you,sometimes I think I'm smart as carrots but I must learn from Sir Harry that there is room for improvement.
- Jan 31, 2011
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Those that fully understand Gurbani say very little to others 
Ha ha ,thats only because they don't see any others !
BlazinSikh
SPNer
I completley agree with Gurtej Khubbar Ji here! The fact is that most Sikh families (i've no proper proof except my family) do not understand what they read, and what they hear. They just think going to Gurdwara listening to kirtan, and screaming Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh! makes them a sikh, also plus they migrated from punjab which some how technically makes them a sikh.
However the question is do they know what is being said by the Guru's in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, do they even know that we are meant to consided the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a Guru and not a Harry Potter book, do they even know what "Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh" means? The matter of fact is if more of sikhi was taught properly in Gurdwara's, and by other, so called sikhs today would either know the in's and out's of sikhi, or then would denounce their faith and not claim to be a sikh.
See i ain't trying to say that i am a best sikhi (Me Never), but the fact is everyday i learn new things, or find things in sikhi that surprise me, and just makes me eliminate the fallacy of today's "religious" society. And this all because i learn what i say and hear, not just by chanting words that make no sense to me at all.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!
(Khalsa belongs to the Waheguru, and the victory to the Waheguru) khandaa
Those that fully understand Gurbani say very little to others
Harry ji,
Guru Fateh.
Can you please give some concrete examples of your claim because it goes against the reasons and the principles of this very forum SPN?
We all converse and share here and hence learn from each other.
Thanks and regards
Tejwant Singh
- Jan 31, 2011
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Tejwantji
It was said slightly tongue in cheek,however, we are all on a journey here on this forum, I do not think anyone can say they fully understand the entire concept of Gurbani, a lot of it, in my opinion has to be experienced, and even then, how can you share your experiences to any value. To that end, I cannot see how that statement stops us all sharing and growing, as I, to date, have not come across anyone who I would say knew 'the whole story'. I have come across many who claim they do, and frankly, you cannot shut them up, they end up as the babas and sants that we have come to despise so much.
Also, to me Gurbani is more about actions than talking, The Gurus did a lot and talked very little, it is their actions that today inspire us.
ਗਾਵੀਐ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਮਨਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਭਾਉ ॥
गावीऐ सुणीऐ मनि रखीऐ भाउ ॥
Gāvī▫ai suṇī▫ai man rakẖī▫ai bẖā▫o.
Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love.
Happiness comes from love, be full of love, be happy.
ਦੁਖੁ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਘਰਿ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
दुखु परहरि सुखु घरि लै जाइ ॥
Ḏukẖ parhar sukẖ gẖar lai jā▫e.
Your pain shall be sent far away, and peace shall come to your home.
Sorrow will leave you, you will find contentment
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥
गुरमुखि नादं गुरमुखि वेदं गुरमुखि रहिआ समाई ॥
Gurmukẖ nāḏaʼn gurmukẖ veḏaʼn gurmukẖ rahi▫ā samā▫ī.
The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.
The will of God is the universal truth
ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥
गुरु ईसरु गुरु गोरखु बरमा गुरु पारबती माई ॥
Gur īsar gur gorakẖ barmā gur pārbaṯī mā▫ī.
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.
Creator is everywhere, in everything, and predates all.
ਜੇ ਹਉ ਜਾਣਾ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਹਣਾ ਕਥਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥
जे हउ जाणा आखा नाही कहणा कथनु न जाई ॥
Je ha▫o jāṇā ākẖā nāhī kahṇā kathan na jā▫ī.
Even knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words.
When my connection is supreme, by my actions I will inspire others, mere words cannot communicate what I know about God.
ਗੁਰਾ ਇਕ ਦੇਹਿ ਬੁਝਾਈ ॥
गुरा इक देहि बुझाई ॥
Gurā ik ḏehi bujẖā▫ī.
The Guru has given me this one understanding:
If I only ever learn one fact from the Guru
ਸਭਨਾ ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਵਿਸਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੫॥
सभना जीआ का इकु दाता सो मै विसरि न जाई ॥५॥
Sabẖnā jī▫ā kā ik ḏāṯā so mai visar na jā▫ī. ||5||
there is only the One, the Giver of all souls. May I never forget Him! ||5||
There is only God, everywhere, in everything
ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਵਾ ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਭਾਣੇ ਕਿ ਨਾਇ ਕਰੀ ॥
तीरथि नावा जे तिसु भावा विणु भाणे कि नाइ करी ॥
Ŧirath nāvā je ṯis bẖāvā viṇ bẖāṇe kė nā▫e karī.
If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?
empty rituals please only the brain dead,
ਜੇਤੀ ਸਿਰਠਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਵੇਖਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਰਮਾ ਕਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਲਈ ॥
जेती सिरठि उपाई वेखा विणु करमा कि मिलै लई ॥
Jeṯī siraṯẖ upā▫ī vekẖā viṇ karmā kė milai la▫ī.
I gaze upon all the created beings: without the karma of good actions, what are they given to receive?
We reap what we sow
ਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਤਨ ਜਵਾਹਰ ਮਾਣਿਕ ਜੇ ਇਕ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣੀ ॥
मति विचि रतन जवाहर माणिक जे इक गुर की सिख सुणी ॥
Maṯ vicẖ raṯan javāhar māṇik je ik gur kī sikẖ suṇī.
Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies, if you listen to the Guru's Teachings, even once.
Connection is worth more than all the riches in the world, learn how to connect to God
It was said slightly tongue in cheek,however, we are all on a journey here on this forum, I do not think anyone can say they fully understand the entire concept of Gurbani, a lot of it, in my opinion has to be experienced, and even then, how can you share your experiences to any value. To that end, I cannot see how that statement stops us all sharing and growing, as I, to date, have not come across anyone who I would say knew 'the whole story'. I have come across many who claim they do, and frankly, you cannot shut them up, they end up as the babas and sants that we have come to despise so much.
Also, to me Gurbani is more about actions than talking, The Gurus did a lot and talked very little, it is their actions that today inspire us.
ਗਾਵੀਐ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਮਨਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਭਾਉ ॥
गावीऐ सुणीऐ मनि रखीऐ भाउ ॥
Gāvī▫ai suṇī▫ai man rakẖī▫ai bẖā▫o.
Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love.
Happiness comes from love, be full of love, be happy.
ਦੁਖੁ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਘਰਿ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
दुखु परहरि सुखु घरि लै जाइ ॥
Ḏukẖ parhar sukẖ gẖar lai jā▫e.
Your pain shall be sent far away, and peace shall come to your home.
Sorrow will leave you, you will find contentment
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥
गुरमुखि नादं गुरमुखि वेदं गुरमुखि रहिआ समाई ॥
Gurmukẖ nāḏaʼn gurmukẖ veḏaʼn gurmukẖ rahi▫ā samā▫ī.
The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.
The will of God is the universal truth
ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥
गुरु ईसरु गुरु गोरखु बरमा गुरु पारबती माई ॥
Gur īsar gur gorakẖ barmā gur pārbaṯī mā▫ī.
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.
Creator is everywhere, in everything, and predates all.
ਜੇ ਹਉ ਜਾਣਾ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਹਣਾ ਕਥਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥
जे हउ जाणा आखा नाही कहणा कथनु न जाई ॥
Je ha▫o jāṇā ākẖā nāhī kahṇā kathan na jā▫ī.
Even knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words.
When my connection is supreme, by my actions I will inspire others, mere words cannot communicate what I know about God.
ਗੁਰਾ ਇਕ ਦੇਹਿ ਬੁਝਾਈ ॥
गुरा इक देहि बुझाई ॥
Gurā ik ḏehi bujẖā▫ī.
The Guru has given me this one understanding:
If I only ever learn one fact from the Guru
ਸਭਨਾ ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਵਿਸਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੫॥
सभना जीआ का इकु दाता सो मै विसरि न जाई ॥५॥
Sabẖnā jī▫ā kā ik ḏāṯā so mai visar na jā▫ī. ||5||
there is only the One, the Giver of all souls. May I never forget Him! ||5||
There is only God, everywhere, in everything
ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਵਾ ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਭਾਣੇ ਕਿ ਨਾਇ ਕਰੀ ॥
तीरथि नावा जे तिसु भावा विणु भाणे कि नाइ करी ॥
Ŧirath nāvā je ṯis bẖāvā viṇ bẖāṇe kė nā▫e karī.
If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?
empty rituals please only the brain dead,
ਜੇਤੀ ਸਿਰਠਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਵੇਖਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਰਮਾ ਕਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਲਈ ॥
जेती सिरठि उपाई वेखा विणु करमा कि मिलै लई ॥
Jeṯī siraṯẖ upā▫ī vekẖā viṇ karmā kė milai la▫ī.
I gaze upon all the created beings: without the karma of good actions, what are they given to receive?
We reap what we sow
ਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਤਨ ਜਵਾਹਰ ਮਾਣਿਕ ਜੇ ਇਕ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣੀ ॥
मति विचि रतन जवाहर माणिक जे इक गुर की सिख सुणी ॥
Maṯ vicẖ raṯan javāhar māṇik je ik gur kī sikẖ suṇī.
Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies, if you listen to the Guru's Teachings, even once.
Connection is worth more than all the riches in the world, learn how to connect to God
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Anand Sahib, ang 918, paurhi 14
ਭਗਤਾ ਕੀ ਚਾਲ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥
भगता की चाल निराली ॥
Bẖagṯā kī cẖāl nirālī.
The lifestyle of the devotees is unique and distinct.
ਚਾਲਾ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ਭਗਤਾਹ ਕੇਰੀ ਬਿਖਮ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਚਲਣਾ ॥
चाला निराली भगताह केरी बिखम मारगि चलणा ॥
Cẖālā nirālī bẖagṯāh kerī bikẖam mārag cẖalṇā.
The devotees' lifestyle is unique and distinct; they follow the most difficult path.
ਲਬੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਤਜਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਬੋਲਣਾ ॥
लबु लोभु अहंकारु तजि त्रिसना बहुतु नाही बोलणा ॥
Lab lobẖ ahaʼnkār ṯaj ṯarisnā bahuṯ nāhī bolṇā.
They renounce greed, avarice, egotism and desire; they do not talk too much.
ਖੰਨਿਅਹੁ ਤਿਖੀ ਵਾਲਹੁ ਨਿਕੀ ਏਤੁ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
खंनिअहु तिखी वालहु निकी एतु मारगि जाणा ॥
Kẖanni▫ahu ṯikẖī vālahu nikī eṯ mārag jāṇā.
The path they take is sharper than a two-edged sword, and finer than a hair.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਆਪੁ ਤਜਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਵਾਸਨਾ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥
गुर परसादी जिनी आपु तजिआ हरि वासना समाणी ॥
Gur parsādī jinī āp ṯaji▫ā har vāsnā samāṇī.
By Guru's Grace, they shed their selfishness and conceit; their hopes are merged in the Lord.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਚਾਲ ਭਗਤਾ ਜੁਗਹੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥੧੪॥
कहै नानकु चाल भगता जुगहु जुगु निराली ॥१४॥
Kahai Nānak cẖāl bẖagṯā jugahu jug nirālī. ||14||
Says Nanak, the lifestyle of the devotees, in each and every age, is unique and distinct. ||14||
भगता की चाल निराली ॥
Bẖagṯā kī cẖāl nirālī.
The lifestyle of the devotees is unique and distinct.
ਚਾਲਾ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ਭਗਤਾਹ ਕੇਰੀ ਬਿਖਮ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਚਲਣਾ ॥
चाला निराली भगताह केरी बिखम मारगि चलणा ॥
Cẖālā nirālī bẖagṯāh kerī bikẖam mārag cẖalṇā.
The devotees' lifestyle is unique and distinct; they follow the most difficult path.
ਲਬੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਤਜਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਬੋਲਣਾ ॥
लबु लोभु अहंकारु तजि त्रिसना बहुतु नाही बोलणा ॥
Lab lobẖ ahaʼnkār ṯaj ṯarisnā bahuṯ nāhī bolṇā.
They renounce greed, avarice, egotism and desire; they do not talk too much.
ਖੰਨਿਅਹੁ ਤਿਖੀ ਵਾਲਹੁ ਨਿਕੀ ਏਤੁ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
खंनिअहु तिखी वालहु निकी एतु मारगि जाणा ॥
Kẖanni▫ahu ṯikẖī vālahu nikī eṯ mārag jāṇā.
The path they take is sharper than a two-edged sword, and finer than a hair.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਆਪੁ ਤਜਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਵਾਸਨਾ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥
गुर परसादी जिनी आपु तजिआ हरि वासना समाणी ॥
Gur parsādī jinī āp ṯaji▫ā har vāsnā samāṇī.
By Guru's Grace, they shed their selfishness and conceit; their hopes are merged in the Lord.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਚਾਲ ਭਗਤਾ ਜੁਗਹੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥੧੪॥
कहै नानकु चाल भगता जुगहु जुगु निराली ॥१४॥
Kahai Nānak cẖāl bẖagṯā jugahu jug nirālī. ||14||
Says Nanak, the lifestyle of the devotees, in each and every age, is unique and distinct. ||14||
ਟੋਡੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਕੀ
टोडी बाणी भगतां की
Todī baṇī bẖagṯāʼn kī
Todee, The Word Of The Devotees:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਨਿਰਵਾ ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
कोई बोलै निरवा कोई बोलै दूरि ॥
Ko▫ī bolai nirvā ko▫ī bolai ḏūr.
Some say that He is near, and others say that He is far away.
ਜਲ ਕੀ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਚਰੈ ਖਜੂਰਿ ॥੧॥
जल की माछुली चरै खजूरि ॥१॥
Jal kī mācẖẖulī cẖarai kẖajūr. ||1||
We might just as well say that the fish climbs out of the water, up the tree. ||1||
ਕਾਂਇ ਰੇ ਬਕਬਾਦੁ ਲਾਇਓ ॥
कांइ रे बकबादु लाइओ ॥
Kāʼn▫e re bakbāḏ lā▫i▫o.
Why do you speak such nonsense?
ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਓ ਤਿਨਹਿ ਛਪਾਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जिनि हरि पाइओ तिनहि छपाइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jin har pā▫i▫o ṯinėh cẖẖapā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One who has found the Lord, keeps quiet about it. ||1||Pause||
टोडी बाणी भगतां की
Todī baṇī bẖagṯāʼn kī
Todee, The Word Of The Devotees:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਨਿਰਵਾ ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
कोई बोलै निरवा कोई बोलै दूरि ॥
Ko▫ī bolai nirvā ko▫ī bolai ḏūr.
Some say that He is near, and others say that He is far away.
ਜਲ ਕੀ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਚਰੈ ਖਜੂਰਿ ॥੧॥
जल की माछुली चरै खजूरि ॥१॥
Jal kī mācẖẖulī cẖarai kẖajūr. ||1||
We might just as well say that the fish climbs out of the water, up the tree. ||1||
ਕਾਂਇ ਰੇ ਬਕਬਾਦੁ ਲਾਇਓ ॥
कांइ रे बकबादु लाइओ ॥
Kāʼn▫e re bakbāḏ lā▫i▫o.
Why do you speak such nonsense?
ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਓ ਤਿਨਹਿ ਛਪਾਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जिनि हरि पाइओ तिनहि छपाइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jin har pā▫i▫o ṯinėh cẖẖapā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One who has found the Lord, keeps quiet about it. ||1||Pause||
Scarlet Pimpernel ji,
Guru Fateh.
Would you be kind enough to give the page number and the whole Shabad with your own understanding/ experience in your own words?
The reason I asked this is because the literal translation is misleading and incorrect. Please explain what the Rahao part means that you have put in bold for you. Do not be afraid to express your inner feelings about it.
I am a bit baffled by it because how can anyone be quiet about the omnipresence?!!
Thanks and regards
Tejwant Singh
Veer Ji
Page number is 718, my own understanding is quite simply a literal one,in my experience one can't gift experience,I was mistaken to emphasise the pause as the line above it equally applies.
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Scarlet Pimpernel ji,
Guru Fateh.
Can you please elaborate what you mean by the above? As mentioned before, the literal translation is not only misleading but also incorrect.
Are you claiming that you are fine with that? Is that your understanding of Gurbani and would you please post the whole Shabad if it is not posted?
One may not be able to gift experience but one can share it in one's own words and its understanding for sure.
Why don't you do that and help us out? Otherwise, mere copying and pasting incorrect literal translations from the net without having an inkling about it can not lead one towards the path of understanding Gurbani, in order to practice it in one's life.
What do you understand by Rahao in your literal understanding of the Gurbani? What part does it play in the Shabad?
Thanks and regards.
Tejwant Singh
The Fish trying to climb the KHAZOOR tree (date palm)...ha ha..its so very very difficult even for the average HUMAN to climb the Slippery date palm successfully..what more for a FISH that lives in water...the analogy is that its "REALLY DIFFICULT if not IMPOSSIBLE to RESOLVE the God is Near and God is far by merely DEBATING or having Discources ! discussions wont provide the answer !!
Bhagat namdev Ji declares..Hey Friend/Brother..why waste time in such discourses..debates..(showing OFF ones wisdom..education..academic prowess..gyaan..knowledge....the rare human who actually "learns something" STAYS AWAY..(hides)..AVOIDS such Time wasting debates where empty drums make the most noise..( and where "FISH" attempt to show they can climb the date palm !!!) So the WAY to HIM is not via achieving PHD status in the Vedas Puranas,,becoming the best Akhand Paathi..or Bible reader or becoming Dr Naik on TV....BUT via BHAGTEE..devotion..selfless HUMILITY before HIM...and such acts normally Cannot be done in PUBLIC (hence the word hidden...lokiyah..etc) and whats more no crowds will be attracted to one such bhagatee type of individual..compared to the BOISTEROUS "Pandit" arguing loudly about the Vedas the Puranas the SGGS Koran etc..!!!
The LITERAL TRANSLATION provided leaves so much to be desired..actually the GAPING HOLES look more like Black Holes...anyone depending on this to reach the Message of Bhagat namdev Ji would be sucked into NOTHINGNESS....sad to see how the real Gold of SGGS is being admired superficially ....the real and actual diamonds lie deep beneath the ocean...
Bhagat namdev Ji declares..Hey Friend/Brother..why waste time in such discourses..debates..(showing OFF ones wisdom..education..academic prowess..gyaan..knowledge....the rare human who actually "learns something" STAYS AWAY..(hides)..AVOIDS such Time wasting debates where empty drums make the most noise..( and where "FISH" attempt to show they can climb the date palm !!!) So the WAY to HIM is not via achieving PHD status in the Vedas Puranas,,becoming the best Akhand Paathi..or Bible reader or becoming Dr Naik on TV....BUT via BHAGTEE..devotion..selfless HUMILITY before HIM...and such acts normally Cannot be done in PUBLIC (hence the word hidden...lokiyah..etc) and whats more no crowds will be attracted to one such bhagatee type of individual..compared to the BOISTEROUS "Pandit" arguing loudly about the Vedas the Puranas the SGGS Koran etc..!!!
The LITERAL TRANSLATION provided leaves so much to be desired..actually the GAPING HOLES look more like Black Holes...anyone depending on this to reach the Message of Bhagat namdev Ji would be sucked into NOTHINGNESS....sad to see how the real Gold of SGGS is being admired superficially ....the real and actual diamonds lie deep beneath the ocean...
- May 9, 2006
- 3,261
- 5,192
Are you sure it's the literal translation you're criticising, or is it the literal interpretation (even of the original Gurbani) that is the problem?
Because I can't see the for the life of me how the English translation can lose all that extra info you gave us, Gyaniji, but that the original text can pack all that in.
If however you're saying a literal interpretation (in either language) is inadequate than fair enough.
Ishna ji,
Guru Fateh.
Allow me to add my 2 cent worth. There is a difference between Literal Translation which is from one language to the other with the absence of symbolic or metaphorical meanings, in this case from Gurmukhi to English in a literal manner.
Literal Interpretation is from the same language which is very common in the field of law.
As Gurbani is all poetry, there are a lot of symbolic/metaphorical hidden meanings and they can only be understood by reading the whole Shabads and knowing a bit about the author/s.
We all know the story in Genesis 1 that God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. If we take this literally, then it makes no sense because we know it took billions of years according to the scientific data available today.
This would be the same as in the Shabad above about the fish climbing the date tree and we all know that date trees are very tall, hence it is not possible if we translate it literally and we all know that fish do not climb any trees. So, there must be some other symbolic/metaphorical meaning about it which Gyani ji has explained quite well.
Bhagat Namdev was from Maharashatra in Southern India. He was born in the late 13th century. 61 of his hymns are in the SGGS and were added by Guru Arjan Dev, the 5th Guru. He was of Chimba caste which is a Calico cloth printer and considered a low caste.
In this particular Shabad, Bhagat ji is talking about the loud mouth Pundit babbling nonsense to the lay low caste people because only the Pundits were allowed to read the religious scriptures. Hence, whatever nonsense they said was considered "the word of god" because no one was allowed to challenge them. It was their word against no one's.
Sadly, the literal translations of SGGS are very misleading and incorrect because the original ones were done by the Christian missionaries as I mentioned in the other thread.
If you have any other queries, please feel free to ask.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Veer ji Only life experiences may be shared as they can be related to with or without destiny,the line in bold is not misleading,as for pasting ,I recalled reading that line and it was pasted in support for my Veer Ji Harry, as his post seemed an unsure response to your post wanting concrete proof.
Holy Literature for the most part at least is straightforward and most of it can be read literally as it was rhetorical or instructing in the first place,when the Guru says 'keeps quiet' ,it means exactly that.
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Awakeand Singh
SPNer
- Jan 9, 2012
- 78
- 107
Harry ji,
Sikhism is about changing the world - by changing yourself! That's the only "self" you can ever change.
The world will change, one "self" at a time.
Sikhism is about changing the world - by changing yourself! That's the only "self" you can ever change.
The world will change, one "self" at a time.
Gurtej ji,
Guru Fateh.
You write:
Do not worry if you had forgotten to pack your Speedos too because Gurbani says," Naked we came, naked we will go".:redturban:
Not serving alcohol has nothing to do with saving. In my family which is scattered in all over the US, Canada and UK, we never serve alcohol, whether it is at the weddings or at any other get togathers. no one seems to dislike us or talk behind us, I think, but if they do, who cares?! However, we go to the parties where they do serve alcohol. It matters naught to us.
I think your devotion to the Guru is taking you to the extremes and making you a bit angry, hence judgemental. Only the true change in you can make you see the things in a different manner. Try to accept others as they are rather than pointing to what you think they should be, which creates a bigger flaw in you. Your own actions will determine their change in your mind.
As the old saying goes," If we change the way we look at things, then the things we look at change".
Enjoy your journey from the within.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Guru Fateh.
You write:
Do not worry if you had forgotten to pack your Speedos too because Gurbani says," Naked we came, naked we will go".:redturban:
Not serving alcohol has nothing to do with saving. In my family which is scattered in all over the US, Canada and UK, we never serve alcohol, whether it is at the weddings or at any other get togathers. no one seems to dislike us or talk behind us, I think, but if they do, who cares?! However, we go to the parties where they do serve alcohol. It matters naught to us.
I think your devotion to the Guru is taking you to the extremes and making you a bit angry, hence judgemental. Only the true change in you can make you see the things in a different manner. Try to accept others as they are rather than pointing to what you think they should be, which creates a bigger flaw in you. Your own actions will determine their change in your mind.
As the old saying goes," If we change the way we look at things, then the things we look at change".
Enjoy your journey from the within.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
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Scarlet Pimpernel ji,
Guru Fateh.
I beg to differ with you. All experiences, spiritual or not can be shared and interacted with. Sikhi is based on it.
I agree that all literature either holy or not can be read literally provided it is read in its original form, not in the literal incorrect, misleading translations. Here, we are talking about the latter.
Bhagat Nam Dev does not say
in the Shabad. That is what the incorrect literal translation says.
Gyani ji has explained the shabad very well. I would suggest that you go through it again.
Regards
Tejwant Singh
Our Family not only doesnt drink alcohol..we dont serve...and..we also dont allow anyone who drinks to "bring a bottle"...and we are not bothered about what people say..why would we bother when the GURU says what we want to listen to !! ( Some close friends who are drinkers requested that we allow them to bring their own to my brothers wedding..dad said... NO WAY...i dont even want someone attending who has alcohol in his blood/stomach..let alone in a bottle in his pocket...and so a few grumbled..a few didnt come..good riddance.) The UNHAPPIEST PERSONS are those who spend too much time "Listening to others"....they forget to listen to themselves or the GURU...
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