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Hard Talk
Hypocrisy Of Karma
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<blockquote data-quote="Tejwant Singh" data-source="post: 119080" data-attributes="member: 138"><p>Mohinder Singh ji,</p><p></p><p>Guru Fateh.</p><p></p><p>Thanks for the response.</p><p></p><p>First of all, let me clarify one thing. I am neither a Sikh scholar, historian, intellect, nor do I intend or pretend to be.</p><p></p><p>I am also a trader but in a minute nano form. However, one thing both of us have in common, that is, that we are both Sikhs, seekers, learners, hence on the same playing field.</p><p></p><p>My question to you was regarding your quoting one liners of Shabads to prove your point about Karma which is the starting thread, "Hypocrisy of Karma" not about Hukam.</p><p></p><p>In my opinion, Hukam means: what ought to happen in any form or shape is going to happen. Our limited, limited language and intellect cannot express it nor can they grasp this Wow! and Awe! factors of Hukam. </p><p></p><p>We should not confuse human actions good or bad, in actions with the Hukam of The Source which in itself is unfathomable and indescribable. Hukam teaches us acceptance which is umpteen steps ahead of tolerance that other dogmatic religions teach. </p><p></p><p>Hukam is a vast tent under which all humanity has the capability of living in harmony. </p><p></p><p>Mool Mantar is the blue print of Truthful living, Jap is its foundation and the rest of the Guru Granth teaches us that if we abide by the Hukam, then we can all lead a truthful life, irrespective of our hue, creed or faith.</p><p></p><p>But that is not the point of my initial post. As Sikhs, students, learners and seekers- NOT as scholars, it is our duty to express what we understand by the Shabads posted by us as all messages of Gurbani are personal depending on which milestone one is at and only Ik Ong Kaar is the one who knows the spiritual mark of the milestone.</p><p></p><p>So, I will again request you to express yourself about what message the shabads you have quoted give you and please share it with us so that we can all learn as Sikhs from each other. This is the true essence of," Mil Sadh Sangat, Bhaj Keval Naam.</p><p></p><p>Regarding your post above, allow me to point one thing out.</p><p></p><p>You write:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I will copy & paste two literal translations of the Rahao dooja.</p><p></p><p>Literal Translation by Bhai Manmohan Singh ji</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%A3" target="_blank">ਆਵਣ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3" target="_blank">ਜਾਣ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%87" target="_blank">ਰਹੇ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87" target="_blank">ਮਿਲੇ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਸਾਧਾ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A5%A5%E0%A9%A7%E0%A5%A5" target="_blank">॥੧॥ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਰਹਾਉ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਦੂਜਾ </a> ॥੧॥੩॥</span></span></span> </p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #008080">आवण जाण रहे मिले साधा ॥१॥ रहाउ दूजा ॥१॥३॥</span></span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Āvaṇ jāṇ rahe mile sāḏẖā. ||1|| rahā▫o ḏūjā. ||1||3||.</span></span> </p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">Meeting with the Saint-Guru, my comings and goings have ended. Pause 2nd.</span></span> </p><p></p><p>Literal translation by Dr. Sant Singh khalsa</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%A3" target="_blank">ਆਵਣ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3" target="_blank">ਜਾਣ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%87" target="_blank">ਰਹੇ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87" target="_blank">ਮਿਲੇ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਸਾਧਾ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A5%A5%E0%A9%A7%E0%A5%A5" target="_blank">॥੧॥ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਰਹਾਉ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਦੂਜਾ </a> ॥੧॥੩॥</span></span></span> </p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #008080">आवण जाण रहे मिले साधा ॥१॥ रहाउ दूजा ॥१॥३॥</span></span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Āvaṇ jāṇ rahe mile sāḏẖā. ||1|| rahā▫o ḏūjā. ||1||3||.</span></span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">My comings and goings have ended, since I met the Holy Saint. ||1||Second. Pause||1||3||</span></span></span> </p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=687&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0" target="_blank">Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>Neither of the translators above state, show or explain what you have concluded which is:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is no round trip journey here.</p><p></p><p>Am I missing something?</p><p></p><p>And one more request, please read the Shabads that precede and follow this on pages 686 and 687 to have the better understanding of the concept mentioned in the Shabads.</p><p></p><p>I am waiting for your own explanation of each Shabad that you have quoted in your posts to express your point of Karma so we can all learn from each other.</p><p></p><p>Thanks & regards</p><p></p><p>Tejwant Singh</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tejwant Singh, post: 119080, member: 138"] Mohinder Singh ji, Guru Fateh. Thanks for the response. First of all, let me clarify one thing. I am neither a Sikh scholar, historian, intellect, nor do I intend or pretend to be. I am also a trader but in a minute nano form. However, one thing both of us have in common, that is, that we are both Sikhs, seekers, learners, hence on the same playing field. My question to you was regarding your quoting one liners of Shabads to prove your point about Karma which is the starting thread, "Hypocrisy of Karma" not about Hukam. In my opinion, Hukam means: what ought to happen in any form or shape is going to happen. Our limited, limited language and intellect cannot express it nor can they grasp this Wow! and Awe! factors of Hukam. We should not confuse human actions good or bad, in actions with the Hukam of The Source which in itself is unfathomable and indescribable. Hukam teaches us acceptance which is umpteen steps ahead of tolerance that other dogmatic religions teach. Hukam is a vast tent under which all humanity has the capability of living in harmony. Mool Mantar is the blue print of Truthful living, Jap is its foundation and the rest of the Guru Granth teaches us that if we abide by the Hukam, then we can all lead a truthful life, irrespective of our hue, creed or faith. But that is not the point of my initial post. As Sikhs, students, learners and seekers- NOT as scholars, it is our duty to express what we understand by the Shabads posted by us as all messages of Gurbani are personal depending on which milestone one is at and only Ik Ong Kaar is the one who knows the spiritual mark of the milestone. So, I will again request you to express yourself about what message the shabads you have quoted give you and please share it with us so that we can all learn as Sikhs from each other. This is the true essence of," Mil Sadh Sangat, Bhaj Keval Naam. Regarding your post above, allow me to point one thing out. You write: I will copy & paste two literal translations of the Rahao dooja. Literal Translation by Bhai Manmohan Singh ji [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%A3"]ਆਵਣ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3"]ਜਾਣ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%87"]ਰਹੇ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87"]ਮਿਲੇ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE"]ਸਾਧਾ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A5%A5%E0%A9%A7%E0%A5%A5"]॥੧॥ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89"]ਰਹਾਉ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE"]ਦੂਜਾ [/URL] ॥੧॥੩॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#008080]आवण जाण रहे मिले साधा ॥१॥ रहाउ दूजा ॥१॥३॥[/COLOR][/SIZE] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1]Āvaṇ jāṇ rahe mile sāḏẖā. ||1|| rahā▫o ḏūjā. ||1||3||.[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#000080]Meeting with the Saint-Guru, my comings and goings have ended. Pause 2nd.[/COLOR][/SIZE] Literal translation by Dr. Sant Singh khalsa [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%A3"]ਆਵਣ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3"]ਜਾਣ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%87"]ਰਹੇ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87"]ਮਿਲੇ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE"]ਸਾਧਾ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A5%A5%E0%A9%A7%E0%A5%A5"]॥੧॥ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%89"]ਰਹਾਉ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE"]ਦੂਜਾ [/URL] ॥੧॥੩॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#008080]आवण जाण रहे मिले साधा ॥१॥ रहाउ दूजा ॥१॥३॥[/COLOR][/SIZE] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1]Āvaṇ jāṇ rahe mile sāḏẖā. ||1|| rahā▫o ḏūjā. ||1||3||.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000080]My comings and goings have ended, since I met the Holy Saint. ||1||Second. Pause||1||3||[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [url=http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=687&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0]Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib[/url] Neither of the translators above state, show or explain what you have concluded which is: There is no round trip journey here. Am I missing something? And one more request, please read the Shabads that precede and follow this on pages 686 and 687 to have the better understanding of the concept mentioned in the Shabads. I am waiting for your own explanation of each Shabad that you have quoted in your posts to express your point of Karma so we can all learn from each other. Thanks & regards Tejwant Singh [/QUOTE]
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Hypocrisy Of Karma
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