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How to handle fallen Kes?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by sandeep17oct, Dec 15, 2013.

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  1. sandeep17oct

    sandeep17oct
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    I heard about the amount of respect given to kes by Guru Sahib Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji when after a battle when he went about the battlefield he removed his footwear so that the kes of the fallen soldiers not come under his footwear. This makes me feel that kes which is caught up in the drain after a bath or thrown in the dustbin is utter disrespect of the kes. Is there any better way to deal with hair after it is separated from the body?
     
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  3. aristotle

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    I don't think throwing fallen kes in the dustbin is disrespect. I have seen people collecting them in a polybag and throwing them in a river or stream every one month or so, and I respect their opinion. But IMO we are taking the meaning of respect too far, they are dead and fallen appendages and it should be okay to dispose them off as one pleases. Forgive me if I'm the only one who thinks so.

    As for the Sakhi of Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj you mentioned, you must be knowing how easy is it for our people to fabricate some Sakhi for forwarding one's ideas to the unsuspecting Sangat. The whole Sikh history is amounting to a large collection of hagiographies and fabricated Sakhis. But I don't think I have read this in any history book so far.
     
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  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    As far as "word of mouth" stories go..Guru Gobind Singh ji was Bare footed in Macchiwarra Jungle...which implies that Guru ji NEVER wore His Shoes back even after He had left Chamkaur Sahib's battle fields far far behind ?? WHY ??

    Anecdote: back in those days..the average "Indian" was so dirt poor..that each person had perhaps one pair of shoes to last a life time...so it was the custom to remove ones shoes, pack them under ones arm pits..and wear them back only when approaching ones destination !! This was to prevent undue wear and tear...

    Me suspects..the original "word of mouth" gossipper had unworthy thoughts...and we add to them by believing such tales... With naked swords and spears and what not lying around the battlefield...it would be foolish to remove ones shoes..

    Fallen KESH are discarded items..treat them with respect or disrespect..makes no difference...BUT on a PRACTICAL ASPECT....be prepared to pay HEFTY BILLS to the SEWAGE/PLUMBERS....to extract the Hair-***** when your system gets CLOGGED due to careless disposal of fallen hair in bathroom/toilet/drains etc. My neighbor recently had to endure this huge pain..and now is on his toes to make sure each member of his family PICKS up each HAIR in the bathroom floor/sink/toilet etc..and DISPOSE them Elsewhere !!! OUCH....."disrespecting" fallen Kesh hurt his POCKET !!..and the PLUMBER was laughing all the way to the Bank...and sad that Me also being a Sikh with lots of long hairs on my 8 humans and 8 dogs...didnt have clogged sewage and so he couldnt make money out of me !!

    COMMON SENSE folks...

    2. Anecdote no. 2...in Malaysia we Sikhs cremate at same crematoriums as Hindus, Buddhists etc...Well at this one creamtorium..a Tamil Hindu family were "shocked" to find an "iron ring" and a small knife in the ashes of their cremated daddy and made a Police report that someone ahd tried to put a curse/blackmagic with their daddy's ashes....and another Sikh Family were also "shocked" to find that the Karra and Kirpan were "missing" from the ashes of their daddy..and they too rushed to make a Police Report...and suffered anguish..???? It so happened that the crematorium guy had MIXED up the respective ASHES....it used to be that Hospitals used to MIX up/SWITCH NEW BORN....now crematoriums also mix up/switch ASHES !!! Wonders of the 21st century...
    Such "anguish" happens when we place too much "respect" on discarded things..because GURBANI..SGGS..already advised us against such...ek dajjeh..ek dabbiah..ek kutteh khayeh...some are burnt..some buried..some eaten by animals..it doesnt matter..because what was IMPORTANT is no longer there !!:happysingh::happysingh::happysingh::happysingh::happysingh:
     
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  5. aristotle

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    Sandeep Ji,

    Perhaps you would consider me a 'half-Sikh' too, but I don't take offence at that. Sikh Rehat Maryada and Gurbani is the lone guiding light for me. All the things presented as 'fact' by some Sakhis, preachers or anecdotes may not be in consonance with Gurmat, we should keep an open mind, these are not the Gospel truth. A holier-than-thou attitude leaves no room for intelligent thinking and spiritual independence the Sikhi philosophy had vouchsaved for us.

    Other than that, if you are to call all those who don't agree with your views as 'half-Sikhs', I wonder why you posted on a forum, we are here to discuss and learn, not browbeat others and call them names.
     
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  6. sandeep17oct

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    Aristotle ji,

    My point in writing half sikhs was to establish the fact that the threats to Sikhism is within Sikhism and not from Hindus as I have so often heard. I never meant to include you as one of them. Please pardon me in case I gave you that image. See the point is maybe we do not understand certain things, but that does not necessarily make that wrong. It is wrong to say stuff that we do not have complete knowledge about.
    Like I have heard about Dasam Granth that it is part of propaganda to eliminate sikh religion because it talks about Ram Avatar, Krishan Avatar and so on. I mean how. We very easily say it is not the work of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Sahib. But are we 100% sure before we plant these seeds into the mind of those who hold it to be Guruji's writing. Don't plant these seeds of doubt thats all I say. If you have something good that can assist in faith then always share but doubts please try to keep to yourself, don't go on pronouncing Dasam Granth is not true and so on cause you were not present there when it was being written. So how can you be 100% sure.

    Going back through the thread I can see how this particular comment tipped the scales away from the original topic. Quite a lot of threaded discussion has been wasted as I read forward. The same holds for the issue of "doubts" which comes up at this point and is followed through. Keep in mind that any one person can not define reality or truth for everyone else on a thread. If you cannot handle disagreement then don't visit internet forums. Whatever you do, don't try to turn people who like questions as much as they like answers into panthic skunks. Discuss issues not personalitiesl Thank you/spnadmin
     
    #5 sandeep17oct, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  7. sandeep17oct

    sandeep17oct
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    English is the official language of the forum. Gurmukhi script is the official form of Punjabi writing here. Please adhere to Terms of Service. spnadmin
     
    #6 sandeep17oct, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  8. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    Sandeep ji, please write in plain understandable English otherwise your posts are candidate for deletion without notice. Thank you so much for your understanding!
     
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  9. sandeep17oct

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    ok sirji....
     
  10. Ishna

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    So is it Gyani Ji you are accusing of being half-Sikh?

    How is any of what you've said in the recent posts related to the treatment of Kesh, which was the question in your opening post?

    Looks to me like you weren't that interested in your OP question at all...





    I need not say a word.
     
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  11. Ishna

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    Excellent. And now we can return to topic.
     
  12. sandeep17oct

    sandeep17oct
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    Sorry....Sister
     
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  13. aristotle

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    Neither were the people who insist on placing Dasam Granth and other such granths parallel with Guru Granth Sahib present when the Granth was being written.

    All I know is Guru Granth Sahib is our only living Guru, unparalleled by any other Granth, and this fact was established by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib himself. Whether or not all the banis included in the Dasam were penned by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib is a matter of research. Moreover, this has nothing to do with the OP question. You have included all sorts of advices, controversies and debates in a discussion which would have otherwise been a streamlined one.
     
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  14. sandeep17oct

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    Aristotle ji,

    See you are taking one extreme here when you say that people are trying to put Dasam Granth at par with Guru Granth Sahib. I don't think any advocate of legitimacy of Dasam Granth would argue that it is above Shri Guru Granth Sahib.
     
  15. aristotle

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    I really don't want to argue further. There are numerous threads on Dasam Granth already on this forum.
     
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  16. Ishna

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    This thead is about kesh.

    Dasam Granth should be discussed here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/

    Further discussion about Dasam Granth, or any other radical tangents, will be removed from this thread.

    Thanks for your cooperation.
     
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  17. sandeep17oct

    sandeep17oct
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  18. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Sandeepji,

    firstly, try not to use red, it is for admin purposes only, Thanks harry ji, and I will go through and make the changes. spnadmin

    secondly, I disagree with you completely, Sikhism is nothing to do with faith, people who have faith sit around doing rituals and waiting for something to happen, Sikhs make things happen by filling themselves with grace and being in consonance with Creation, by following the true path, they have a confident and firm composure, they believe, truly believe, they do not have to force themselves to believe and have faith that what they are doing is right, because they are devoid of pointless actions and thoughts.

    As for 'its only needed when we fear something' , Sikhs do not fear anything, Hukam is blessed and holy, Sikhs accept Hukam, so there is no need to pray for anything really.
     
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  19. sandeep17oct

    sandeep17oct
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    Faith in God bhai. Or call it belief in God.
     
  20. sandeep17oct

    sandeep17oct
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    Chaupai sahib is a prayer. Not for good things but for strength to walk on the path as prescribed by the Guru.
     
  21. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Thanks to harry ji and ishna ji on the matter of Dasam Granth discussions.

    Orderly discussion is important. Further discussion of Dasam Granth in this thread may and should be deleted.

    On the matter of "facts:" Inaccuracies and distortions should be corrected. As far as I can tell sandeep ji you have been at the root of most of the inaccuracies here, and the one who has made most of the accusations that others are guilty of distortions.

    Once I finish reading the thread carefully other issues related to TOS will be raised. I have about 4 more comments to review. Until then, if the term "half Sikhs" comes up one more time, deletions will occur.

    I missed most of this over the night here on the US side and will be straightening things out during the day. Please take heed.
     
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