Hard Talk How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/race?

[ConfusedKaur]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Of course I'm not going to marry out of caste. Why? Cause I don't belong to a caste. Sorry, but I just don't see how a person can say they believe in equality because they married out of their caste. Just by saying that, you have acknowledged that you are of a particular caste.

About another race or whatever, well a Sikh is nothing but a Sikh. Some people do prefer marrying someone who is also of a similar culture. I know my parents would prefer that for me, but I don't really care. Most Sikhs, Punjabi or not, usually end up learning a thing or two about Punjabi culture anyway.

 

[singhbj]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

I would like to highlight the fact that almost 99.9 percent people fix their kids marriage out of Manmat. Only 0.1 percent who are Gursikhs like the Gursikh from Kabul (mentioned in the Saakhi) obey Guru Sahib ji's Hukum, receive blessings !

Nobody seeks Guru Sahib jeeo approval before arranging marriage. Therefore it hardly makes a difference whether Manmat is regarding caste/race or something else.

People hate to admit but truth is, first priority is always given to MONEY. Other factors are mostly compromised in order to arrange a marriage.

I don't see any shortage of wannabe Brides or Grooms in any caste or race whatsoever, so why are they still SINGLE ?

Parents & wannabe Brides or Grooms are not willing to marry a poor guy/gal from the same caste/community.

So do you still believe that caste or race has importance in Society ?

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 

[Sikh80]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

I would like to highlight the fact that almost 99.9 percent people fix their kids marriage out of Manmat. Only 0.1 percent who are Gursikhs like the Gursikh from Kabul (mentioned in the Saakhi) obey Guru Sahib ji's Hukum, receive blessings !

Nobody seeks Guru Sahib jeeo approval before arranging marriage. Therefore it hardly makes a difference whether Manmat is regarding caste/race or something else.

People hate to admit but truth is, first priority is always given to MONEY. Other factors are mostly compromised in order to arrange a marriage.

I don't see any shortage of wannabe Brides or Grooms in any caste or race whatsoever, so why are they still SINGLE ?

Parents & wannabe Brides or Grooms are not willing to marry a poor guy/gal from the same caste/community.

So do you still believe that caste or race has importance in Society ?

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

1.You have quoted percentages of almost all the sikhs 99.90% to be governed by Manmat. If we assume, for the sake of discussion, the population of sikhs as 22 million ; 0.10% would be about 22,000 i.e the actual figure of sikhs who marry as per Gurmat. The figure needs checking up as it is almost nil. Kindly amplify as to what exactly is meant by 'Manmat' in the context.[ Is there any directive of SGPC in this regard or Rehat speaks of it, kindly state.]

2.Regarding money part yes, we live in a society and people are governed by the norms fixed by society. But ,Speaking generally, sikhs marriages are within families that enjoy same social status else the marriage will fall apart in short span of time. Social status is important because both persons can carry themselves with ease and remaining without complexes if they belong to same starta. It is a must for a successful marriage, at least, in the Indian context.

3.The third point is regarding castes. Sikhs always have a priority for marrying in the same caste. Yes, it is a painful truth. No doubt caste system is prevalent in sikhs and it shall take a long time before we can come over this mental block. Lot of efforts are lacking in this regard from our religious governing bodies. Caste system is prevalent in rural side only.In metropolis it is absent.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Sikh 80 ji

I really appreciate your comments here because they validate some of the information found in reading I have been doing about the social and political history of the Punjab before and after 1950.

Sometimes the issues have to be sorted out the way you have done by rural versus urban, and class versus class/status. I don't think many Westerners understand that high caste does not always correlate with wealth. Lower castes can include people with wealth. And there are also those who may be relatively poor, even at the highest caste levels. So economic factors are blended throughout.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

It is nice to learn about your varied interests besides Gurbani that you have tried to Master.

You are right that no one has an exclusive right on wealth .Anyone is free to earn. India got independence in 1947 and that is over six decades. Yes, there can be some examples of injustice to the lower starta but ultimately one has to change one self and establish the value system also and then try to work accordingly.The indifference of the Federal Government should not be an excuse to a poverty. The Federal government shall always remain indifferent to the Punjab problems.Let us face the facts. It is so and so it be, is the attitude that is required for overcoming the hurdles.

Unless this is done the poor sikhs would remain to be so. Having a religion as a common denominator can be of some help to some only but taking actions as per owns ability is the answer to the poverty. We have banks/FIs for this.

SGPC should play an active role.I think that due to the emergence of sikhism on foreign lands as well this set up should under go a radical change to include some social institutions under its umbrella. It is really missing .

E&OE

 

[spnadmin]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Sikh90 ji

There are so many things to consider in your comment. I can only speak to 2 of them.

There is poverty at every level and every level in society - poor Brahmins, poor Dalits; poor Hindus, poor Sikhs, poor Muslims, poor Christians. Poor in India, in Pakistan, the United States, Russia. Starvation and hopelessness probably the worst part of it. Starvation because it takes hope away from children. Hopelessness because their parents cannot see a good future for their children, and so the children are trapped between hunger and fear. What can we do -- even a little act by one individual one time in his/her life put things into balance just a little bit more.

The SPGC -- dances around. There was talk a few months ago to admit Sanatans, many are impoverished, into the Panth. As soon as the elections were over, that talk stopped.

 

[carolineislands]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

-- even a little act by one individual one time in his/her life put things into balance just a little bit more.

I am stuffing this one deep down in my heart, cuz I know I'm gonna need it!

 

[spnadmin]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Carolineislands ji,

Guru Kirpa!

 

[sabeeka]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

im a convert to islam as u can guess i was a sikh b4 ive been a convert 4 7 years since i was 15 i got married at 18 to a muslim guy been together eva since all i say is that no matter how much u can discuss one of you bein one reilgon the other bein another it wont work im not saying ive seen the future but youll clash between each other wen u talk about certain things and debate about things such as god ull worship in differnt ways how can u ave that under one roof. n yh having castes is totally wrong everyones equally dont matter if ones jatt bein jatt doesnt mean ur superior 2 others does it mean u have power over others?

 

[KiranC]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

I planned to marry out of caste-not because i wanted to make a point but because i fell in love with a jatt (im tharkan)

I told my parents a few days ago and everything blew up in my face.

They didn't shout, more told me that they were disppointed and didn't ever expect me to do anything like that. I was always the perfect daughter-i did whatever they wanted me to so that they were happy.

My dad said that at the end of the day he can't stop me but he wouldn't be happy.

The worse of it is my dad is only worried about how he will face the 'extended family'- you know..all the old auntiya who can't keep their big mouths shut. Why do they matter more than my happiness?

We were never brought up to believe that caste was an issue-we were never like- oh we 'are tharkan so we are the best' or ' those jatts think they are all that'. It was never like that in my house.

Sikhism doesn't have castes as far as i am concerned-its not religion that these people are following its tradition.

I wouldn't marry out of religion because all of the issues with bringing up children and things like that but answer me this...what is wrong with a tharkan marrying a jatt?

I am stuck now- i will either lose my parents or someone that has made me happier than i have ever felt in my life.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Sticky situation, I will say but don't worry. Your parents have to adjust. Here's a video which may allow them to see your point of view and vice versa. Hope it helps.
YouTube - No Caste In Sikhi.

 

[KiranC]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

lol i've seen that video before. Whilst that makes me laugh can you see that it is exactly things like that that promote all these caste issues and because of it people like me suffer.

 

[singhbj]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

I planned to marry out of caste-not because i wanted to make a point but because i fell in love with a jatt (im tharkan)

I told my parents a few days ago and everything blew up in my face.

They didn't shout, more told me that they were disppointed and didn't ever expect me to do anything like that. I was always the perfect daughter-i did whatever they wanted me to so that they were happy.

My dad said that at the end of the day he can't stop me but he wouldn't be happy.

The worse of it is my dad is only worried about how he will face the 'extended family'- you know..all the old auntiya who can't keep their big mouths shut. Why do they matter more than my happiness?

We were never brought up to believe that caste was an issue-we were never like- oh we 'are tharkan so we are the best' or ' those jatts think they are all that'. It was never like that in my house.

Sikhism doesn't have castes as far as i am concerned-its not religion that these people are following its tradition.

I wouldn't marry out of religion because all of the issues with bringing up children and things like that but answer me this...what is wrong with a tharkan marrying a jatt?

I am stuck now- i will either lose my parents or someone that has made me happier than i have ever felt in my life.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Did you ask your parents before falling in love or starting a relationship ?
Let me guess you followed your heart, Right !

Now how come you are so uncertain ?

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

 

[KiranC]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

What did you expect me to do go up to my mum and dad and say -'oh by the way is it ok if i fall in love?!' Thats not the way it works i'm afraid. You don't plan to fall in love-truth be told we were friends before anything else. Yes i followed my heart because i honestly didn't think that they would have a problem with his caste. Like i said i hadn't been brought up to believe caste was an issue.

I am so unsure because I want their support and blessing. This is an important step in my life and I would feel **** if my parents weren't happy for them. Also, i don't want to hurt them-they don't deserve to be hurt but then do i deserve to hurt for the rest of my life?

 

[Lee]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

What did you expect me to do go up to my mum and dad and say -'oh by the way is it ok if i fall in love?!' Thats not the way it works i'm afraid. You don't plan to fall in love-truth be told we were friends before anything else. Yes i followed my heart because i honestly didn't think that they would have a problem with his caste. Like i said i hadn't been brought up to believe caste was an issue.

I am so unsure because I want their support and blessing. This is an important step in my life and I would feel **** if my parents weren't happy for them. Also, i don't want to hurt them-they don't deserve to be hurt but then do i deserve to hurt for the rest of my life?

Can I ask two questions, you don't have to answer them.

How old are you, and where in the world do you live?

 

[KiranC]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

I am 22 and live in the UK

 

[Lee]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

I am 22 and live in the UK

And you see it as either your future spouse or your family? I really don't think of it like that. You dad has told you do what you like, even though he does not like it. This suggests to me that he is just showing his displeasure and says nothing of any actions he may take to ostracise you.

Within our somewhat mixed cultural bag here in the UK, no parents really like their childrens choice in partner, I would say to you that it seems quite natural to me for your folks to be at least a bit weary, and advice you to try not to worry so hard about it.

Unless of course your father has told you he plans to ostracies you for this?

Ultimatly though, I would say not my will ohh lord but yours.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

lol i've seen that video before. Whilst that makes me laugh can you see that it is exactly things like that that promote all these caste issues and because of it people like me suffer.

Who has asked you to suffer? But as far as I know, no one has enjoyed at the cost of the little pleasure that we can give to our dear parents. None will differ on this account.
Lovingly,
Sikh80

 

[mkm]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

Kiran C

Why dont you listen to your Dad, sit with him, compare your choice with his choice if he has for you. Give very good reason to convince him why your choice is better and he should not worry and you have to take different way,
most of the parents concern about their children's choice.Many times they are proved to be right too. I doubt all of the parents like to force their choice on their children.

 

[Sikh80]

Re: How many sikhs have married out of Caste/Race

I am 22 and live in the UK

Whether u live in Uk or timbaktu ,.
Learn to respect thy parents.
They are GOD,
we have not seen HIM but we have seen our parents who are living GOD for us.
Never show any disrespect; u will repent the entire life and curse yourself.
I do not differ from mkm ji either.

all the luck.