Hard Talk How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/race?

[ricky_xccess]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

My belief is that if you are Sikh, you are Sikh regardless of caste.

Hi Bro,

I agree what you are have said but the point is every one don't think the same way so i m telling my point based on that

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

Hi Bro,

I agree what you are have said but the point is every one don't think the same way so i m telling my point based on that

Hi Jios..

Sikhism is not based on what or how many people think about anything..its what the GURUS taught us..and we are all SIKHS IF we follow them.
Hopefully more and more Sikhs will think the way of the GURUS...lets go in THAT direction...

 

[spnadmin]

Re: How Many Siks Have Married out Of Jaat/Zaat (Caste/Race)

I am in the same boat with you aad ji....
Unless it was meant that the Jatt is a SIKH and the Khatree is a Hindu....then there might ( I say MIGHT ) be a small problem...but that too can be easily overcome.. Such Jatt/Khatree marriages are common in Punjab...i just attended one last december..the Girl is Sikh..and the Boy is Hindu...she goes to gurdwara while her spouse goes to the Shiv mandir....sometimes BOTH go to the same place...so theres hope !!

Gyani ji -- Certainly a Jaat is more likely to be Sikh and a Khatree more likely to be Hindu. But that might not be true. They could both be Sikh and so therefore the idea that customs might be different or that there would be a problem after marriage that is related to faith still confuses me.

I can see how there could be problems based on economic differences -- but then Jaats and Khatrees are all over the spectrum economically too. Maybe there would be social customs that differ because bride and bridegroom came from different parts of India or the globe, but that happens in every religion and doesn't seem to be an unsolvable problem.

I like your prevsious analysis -- Follow Guruji and that should clear up problems.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

aad ji,

Most of the Sikh GURUS were Khatrees and none a Jatt.

Having said that...now Most Jatts are SIKH and Sikh kahtrees are not that much. The Sikh khatrees are the Bhapas.. buisnessmen types..and surprisingly these are MORE SIKH and than the JattSikhs .

Khatree Sikhs seldom drink..never shave'go cleanshaven are more particular about going to Gurdwara regularly...and certainly dont have drug abuse problems etc as compared to jatt Sikhs.

While Jatt Sikh run and controlled Gurdawras see regular battles for control...the Khatree Sikh run Gurdwaras are peaceful...as the Buisnessmen Run Multi-million Buisness Empires and have their own posh "offices" and are busy... so these are more than willign to let anyone who has the time to spare to run the Gurdwara..often the President/secretary is FORCED to accept it.....while the Jatt Sikhs...seek to use the Gurdwara OFFICE to "lord it out"..they love to occupy the Gurdwara Presidents chair..office..and enjoy ordering the Granthi sevadaars around....since they have none to order around at home....The Regular JATT SIKH..will not want to side step..even when he is CLEANHAVEN, wears no Dastaar etc..he considers its his right to be pardhaan !! ( claim..I am clean INSIDE as per SGGS )

These types of "cultural baggage" can lead to potential conflicts..even when BOTh are SIKHS..
In my Persoanl experience the Khatree Sikh gurdawars in malaysia/Singapore are very well run..no conflicts..and do a lot of Parchaar...the Gurdwara KATONG Singapore has been doing Kiratn Tapes, gutkas and pamphlets parchaar for decades...while the Jatt Sikh Controlled Gurdawars..are battlegrounds...as always...not much parchaar..no kirtan tapes..or pamphlets..NO TIME as "CHONN" (elections" always around the corner.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

The facts behind Gurdwaras managed by Bhaapas and Jatts.

can only give one example about Lankershim Gurdwara in North Hollywood,CA which was responsible for the floats of the Nagar Kirtan in Los Angles. There are two conflicting parties who manage this Gurdwara, The Jatts and the Bhapas. When it was under the Bhapa adminstration about 12 years ago, there was a Sunday school with 500 kids. Mobile class rooms were installed in the parking lot. There were no fights whatsoever. Then the Jatts took over and dismantled the School. Fights as often as possible. Their regime did not last for more than one 2 year term and Sangat voted for the Bhapa adminstration. Since that has taken place, there is Old people's recreation center, Computer labs which teach courses like Auto cad and others, Gurmat classes for the adults and the kids school. And last but not the least no fights.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The facts behind Gurdwaras managed by Bhaapas and Jatts.

can only give one example about Lankershim Gurdwara in North Hollywood,CA which was responsible for the floats of the Nagar Kirtan in Los Angles. There are two conflicting parties who manage this Gurdwara, The Jatts and the Bhapas. When it was under the Bhapa adminstration about 12 years ago, there was a Sunday school with 500 kids. Mobile class rooms were installed in the parking lot. There were no fights whatsoever. Then the Jatts took over and dismantled the School. Fights as often as possible. Their regime did not last for more than one 2 year term and Sangat voted for the Bhapa adminstration. Since that has taken place, there is Old people's recreation center, Computer labs which teach courses like Auto cad and others, Gurmat classes for the adults and the kids school. And last but not the least no fights.

Tejwant Singh

EXACTLY my point Tejwant Ji.

Another piece of History from my region.
A SINDHI businessman...presented his house in 175 Queen Street for the use of a GURDWARA. It was named Central Sikh Gurdwara. Most of the snagta was Sindhi sehajdharees, and bhappas and jatts. The JATTS already had their own Regional Gurdawras...namely Majha - Malwa and Doaba...and the Mazhbis had their Ravidass Sabha. Very soon after...the Jatts managed to drive the bhappas/sindhis OUT and they went on to Establish the Guru nanak Sabha Katong which has been doing so much sikhi parchaar and is at the forefront.
The Jatts meanwhile took turns sending Reps to run the Central Sikh gurdawara Board..majha/malwa/doaba reps..and they made sure the reps were the Kharkaa dharrka types to maintain control..finally the Central premsies were lost as the Govt took over and moved the Gurdwara out of Queen Street due to development issues as well.
The Annual Chonn used to be quite an affair...
Its very embarrassing..coming from a Jatt background to see all this...hard to see it going away any time soon...the oldies seem to drill all this rubbish into the new generation..even though they are totally local born bred...and dont know any punjabi gurmukhi etc..BUT they KNOW their GOTRA very well Over here the Majha/malwa/Doaba DIVIDE is another factor...it divides SIKHS very badly:}--}::}--}::}--}:

 

[punjabitiger]

WJKK WJKF

I am going to marry with girl belongs to different cast not religion. She is sikh and i am sikh that's it.
She and her family believes in GGS and me too. No questions arise for castisim.
On the other side ma parents opposing me to not to get married with that girl as she is not belongs to our cast(Ramgarhia), and she belongs to bedi/sodhi family but on the FAITH of GGS and guru nanak dev ji's teaches I am going to marry with that girl and she and me loves each other and want to be true sikh who follows the path of GGS.

Thanks

 

[kiram]

WJKK WJKF

I am going to marry with girl belongs to different cast not religion. She is sikh and i am sikh that's it.
She and her family believes in GGS and me too. No questions arise for castisim.
On the other side ma parents opposing me to not to get married with that girl as she is not belongs to our cast(Ramgarhia), and she belongs to bedi/sodhi family but on the FAITH of GGS and guru nanak dev ji's teaches I am going to marry with that girl and she and me loves each other and want to be true sikh who follows the path of GGS.

Thanks

Veerji, vadhaayeeyaan !! i might me repeating a saakhi here but its extremely special and beautifully brings out how Guru Sahib Ji was against the caste system and how He embraced every sikh ji...

Once a sangat was gathered before Guru Amar Das Ji... Amongst the sangat was a kodee as well.. Guru Sahib Ji asked the sangat if there was anyone who was willing to get their daughter married to him.. Nobody stood up except for one and he asked Guru Sahib Ji , who is this person's father, who is his mother, what caste does he belong to... etc...

Guru Sahib Ji then answered saying that He was his father, his mother and that he belonged to the caste that Guru Sahib belonged to... and then Satguru Ji embraced that kodee Ji

So long as we are embraced by Guru Sahib Ji, so long as He loves us ..... which is above all..... we needn't fear anything..

http://sikhroots.com/zina/Keertani ...rjinder Singh - Eh Mahinja Aasraa.mp3?l=8&m=1

 

[Hardip Singh]

Randeep jee,
I hope your question is not for inter-religion or out of your religion marriages. Pl clarify so that people can give their exact openion in the poll.
Regards and Guru Fateh.

 

[jk_81]

i just wana marry the man im happy with and i dont care what religion or cast or color he is. so long as he looks after me.

 

[Archived_Member5]

Caste actually bears little relevance in cross racial, religious or caste liaisons and marriages. Sikhism dictates ones first, devoutest and purest love of for the Waheguru. In this mindset we honour our parents replete with understanding of their societal responsibilities and obligations and marry according to the wishes and blessings of our forefathers and respective families.

If two families are happy with the marrying of two individuals uniting by personal choice then it is of little matter or concern to anyone else. If one or both of the respective families feel the child is marrying against the customs or wishes of the parentage then that is a matter for the family and their wayward offspring. The primary issue if one of obeisance to tradition, the wishes and legacy of the forefathers, faith, family and community.

Caste is made an issue where it is not. Love is a sacred bond of honour, faith and trust stemming from ones parental and familial bonds to society affiliations. You cannot lay blame upon castism for the failing of a parent to implement their authority, or for offspring directly disobeying the parents and religion to indulge their own whim in the dubious and questionable sacred name of ‘’Love’’.

If individuals feel they have found a match they will marry regardless of religious mores, traditional values, or cultural norms then it is a matter of anarchy, of battling against the wishes of one’s elders, overriding the hopes of the parents and brethren and indulging your own whims. There is no religion, caste or faith involved at all. In ancient times such persons were cast out of the village and community to deter other protagonists from being so selfishly self indulgent.

It is unfortunate religious traditions, values and principles are applied or taken to issue in matters of self indulgent wilfulness and disregard for the same said. Hypocrisy of the extreme indeed. Oh for the good old days when the Sardars complete with raging Kirpans in hand ruled the lands....

Each individual is an example, a veritable ambassador of his religion, his race, his caste and his family. Some bring great honour and prestige to their creed and kind, others profit greatlky from boasting of a legacy inherited from their fprebears whilst some bring little but controversy and dishonour upon a name and title that has accorded them only prestige and honour.

Religion, Caste, Race, Nationality, Gender, Family are as invaluable and as invulnerable as each of its brethren, peers and members allow and warrant...

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

i just wana marry the man im happy with and i dont care what religion or cast or color he is. so long as he looks after me.

since your mind is made up....damn the consequences..and marry him....hope he turns out to be the white knight you think he is...IF NOT..there is no blaming anyone else.
WE are the ones who CLIMB UP.. towards the SKY....and we are the ones who STEP DOWN into a hole !! and its all our own decision.
There are just as many sitting at the TOP of the Stairs..as those in the hell hole below !! Beware Cvaeat Emperor..take the right step. Good Luck.

 

[dala]

i would only marry a sikh girl....dont want my kids brought up with parents from 2 diff backgrounds.

guru Gobind Singh didnt allow sikhs to marry out of religion..for obvious reasons and reasons beyond which us munmukhs may not understand today.

 

[dala]

after everything that has happened in the sikh history from Guru
Gobind Singh Ji to the british empire..and what is happening today...u really dont care what background and colour he is? good luck

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Sat Sri Akal, Marrying out of your caste\race and marrying out of your religion are two different things.Our Sikh Gurus married only into their own cast.

 

[The Girl Singh]

Everyone knows that you should not marry based on caste. But most sikh parents prefer there children to marry someone who is Indian and also a Sikh. It almost seems that any relationship other than what I said previous is wrong. But why do they considerate it to be wrong? If there child is in love and happy why is it wrong?

 

[unbiasedview]

i personally would like that caste and religion was no issue.but lets get practical,the kind of mindset ppl have these days,they do discriminate with sikhs for there looks.forget abt non sikhs u go to punjab even sikh girls dont like sabat soorat sikh guys.this is partly because they have raised in such an environment where parents dont teach kids about religion and they dont have any religious ideology.they think they r sikhs because they r born to sikh parents and thats it.they dont want or dont have patience to follow religious ideology.media has played its role as everyone knows.girls would like there guys to resemble heroes and u know a sabat soorat sikh though handsome in his own way doesnt fit in with there idea of a handsomeness.now in view of this ground reality im frank enough to admit that sikh guys do get discriminated by gals especially from other religions as they r not very used to looks of a sikh guy.and u all know majority of this world is not patient and mature enough to go skin deep.so the situation is though ppl find sikh gal very bful they fail to judge the beauty of sabat soorat appearance.they prefer the metrosexual appearance of a non sikh over the manly appearance of sikhs.so thats kind of situation where we would go down in numbers.i know one could fall in love with anybody but i wish there shld be conscious effort on part of sikh gals to marry sikh guys only.and if a sikh gals gets married outside the religion than she shld at least ensure that her kids r sikh.well abt caste discrimination within the religion,i would say thats very unfortunate since sikh religion has been very vocal against casteism and if we follow casteism then we r doing great disservice to ourselves and our religion.i know i may sound narrow minded to many ppl ,but i would request u to enlighten me then with reasons and justifications.

 

[ricky_xccess]

i personally would like that caste and religion was no issue.but lets get practical,the kind of mindset ppl have these days,they do discriminate with sikhs for there looks.forget abt non sikhs u go to punjab even sikh girls dont like sabat soorat sikh guys.this is partly because they have raised in such an environment where parents dont teach kids about religion and they dont have any religious ideology.they think they r sikhs because they r born to sikh parents and thats it.they dont want or dont have patience to follow religious ideology.media has played its role as everyone knows.girls would like there guys to resemble heroes and u know a sabat soorat sikh though handsome in his own way doesnt fit in with there idea of a handsomeness.now in view of this ground reality im frank enough to admit that sikh guys do get discriminated by gals especially from other religions as they r not very used to looks of a sikh guy.and u all know majority of this world is not patient and mature enough to go skin deep.so the situation is though ppl find sikh gal very bful they fail to judge the beauty of sabat soorat appearance.they prefer the metrosexual appearance of a non sikh over the manly appearance of sikhs.so thats kind of situation where we would go down in numbers.i know one could fall in love with anybody but i wish there shld be conscious effort on part of sikh gals to marry sikh guys only.and if a sikh gals gets married outside the religion than she shld at least ensure that her kids r sikh.well abt caste discrimination within the religion,i would say thats very unfortunate since sikh religion has been very vocal against casteism and if we follow casteism then we r doing great disservice to ourselves and our religion.i know i may sound narrow minded to many ppl ,but i would request u to enlighten me then with reasons and justifications.

I agree with you veerji...I too think the same way...

Our Sikhism follow the principles of being no caste/racial distinctions between people...right now majority of the sikh girls want to marry out of cast because of a metrosexual appearance...if you can check out the matrimonial sites then most of the sikh girls needs a clean shaven boy...its really disappointing n it hurts a lot...but out guru ji told us:

"Aval Allah noor upaaeiaa kudrat ke sab bandey || Ek noor te sab jag upajaiaa koun bhalae ko mande"

Absolutely right what our guru ji told us...but right now most sikh girls are following this not any other path which our guru ji told us...We all are god childs and there should be no caste/racial distinctions and by this sikh girls can marry to anyone....but the point is who is the sufferer..Our Sikhism...we are loosing our sikhism day by day...young sikh girls wants a clean shaven boy and sikh boys are cutting there beard....i think we need to change the mind set of the sikh boys and girls and let them feel proud of being a Sikh...

 

[The Girl Singh]

You guys talk about how a Sikh should marry a Sikh to keep the religion alive. But Sikhism is a bloosming religion right now and inter racial marriages would do nothing but help the religion grow so more people can come to understand the Gurus teachings. So if a Sikh boy loves a girl who is not really indian but the girl is willing to learn about sikhism and its teachings what is wrong with that?

The Girl who Just Happens to Be a Singh

 

[ricky_xccess]

You guys talk about how a Sikh should marry a Sikh to keep the religion alive. But Sikhism is a bloosming religion right now and inter racial marriages would do nothing but help the religion grow so more people can come to understand the Gurus teachings. So if a Sikh boy loves a girl who is not really indian but the girl is willing to learn about sikhism and its teachings what is wrong with that?

The Girl who Just Happens to Be a Singh

This is the rare case what you are talking about...i agree we have no problem in that...but...what if she is not willing to learn about sikhism n not want to be a singh?