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Hinduism Hinduism and Christianity are kin...NOT so SIKHI !!

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Gyani Jarnail Singh, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    AN article prepared by Rawel Singh Of the USA sets out to prove that Hindusim and Christianity have so much in common....when its SIKHI that is always claimed to be part of Hinduism !!!
    Read below:


    Hinduism and Christianity are kins, Sikhi Stands Apart

    There are five organized world religions namely Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and Judaism in descending order of number of adherents. As may be seen the Sikhs outnumber the Jews. However when religions are referred to in any context the Sikh religion is rarely mentioned by writers belonging to other faiths. This is because of two reasons. Firstly the Sikhs have not done enough to let their religion be known. As an example once a Sikh told a friend that the Sikhs are the fifth largest religious group worldwide. The friend replied "really, then why don't I know about it"? Secondly there are certain writers like W.H. McLeod, Christian missionaries and Hindu groups who say that Sikh religion is part of Hinduism; this despite the fact the two are fundamentally different. It appears cultural similarities due to both having emanated in India have been understood as religious overlaps.

    The three Semitic religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam have Abraham as their Patriarch and the same basic scripture, the Old Testament – the Muslims only the Torah, its first five books. Judaism is the parent of the other two but they are accepted as separate religions.

    A study of religious beliefs and practices of religions would show that Christianity is more akin to Hinduism than the Sikh religion is made out to be by the misinformed.

    The purpose of this article is to study this aspect briefly under various heads.

    Immortality of the Soul
    One belief which Sikhi (the Sikh faith) shares with Hinduism is immortality of the soul and reincarnation. This is also one of the causes of the Sikhs being treated as Hindus.

    Christianity does not profess to believe in it, but a number of verses in the New Testament confirm the concept e.g:
    But I say unto you, that Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
    Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist (Matthew 17:12-13).
    This belief is not held by the Jews or the Muslims but a large percentage of Christians accepts this, which makes Christianity more like Hinduism than to the other two Semitic faiths.

    Concept of God.
    Both Hinduism and Christianity start with the concept of one God but end up in a trinity.

    The Hindu trinity comprises of Brahma the creator, Vishnu the sustainer and Mahadev or Shankar (also loosely called Shiva, which really is the name for the Creator) the destroyer. As may be seen they represent different attributes of God but are worshipped separately and different pilgrimage centers and temples are dedicated to them. This makes the religion polytheistic.

    Christianity also started with One God of the Old Testament. In the New Testament Jesus is described as the son of God but he calls himself the son of man. He is also called the only begotten son of God and then upgraded to God (John 1:14).

    This trinity seems to have been drawn from that in Hinduism thus:
    God - Creator
    Holy Ghost or Spirit – Sustainer
    Jesus – Destroyer. He says "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" (Revelation 1: 18).

    The New Testament states that after resurrection he told his disciples:
    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

    As may be seen the NT does not say that the three are to be treated as God. This seems to have been done to match with the Hindu concept.

    Christianity thus became polytheistic like Hinduism.

    (The above and all other quotations from the Bible are from King James Version).

    The Sikhs strictly believe in the unity of God who alone is to be worshipped. This unity is denoted by the numeral `1' so that no division is possible. No gods, goddesses are worshipped. Even the Sikh Gurus are not to be worshipped but venerated as guide through the Word. The Sikh faith therefore is strictly monotheistic. Talking specifically of the Hindu trinity Guru Nanak calls it an illusion:
    Eka maaee jugti viaaeee tin chaylay parvan.
    The concept of three members of the Hindu trinity is a result of illusion (M: 1, SGGS, p 7).

    Incarnation of God
    The Hindus believe that Vishnu of the trinity takes human form from time to time (Gita 4:7-8) and have identified ten of them for different ages (Garuda Purana 1. 86: 10-11). Out of these nine have already appeared and the tenth, Kaliki, is yet to appear in the end of the current age of Kali Yug.

    The New Testament initially says Word was God:
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1).

    But then says that Word became flesh, the body of Jesus:
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth (John 1:14).

    And as mentioned above Jesus became part of the trinity that is considered God.

    According to the Sikh faith God is Ajooni meaning He does nor incarnate. In fact Gurbani, the Guru's word says:
    So mukhu jalau jitu kahay thaakur joni.
    May the tongue that says God incarnates be burnt (M: 5, SGGS, p 1136).

    Hence unlike the Hindu and Christian beliefs, Sikhi does not believe in incarnation of God.

    Birth of Krishna and Jesus.
    Both in the case of Krishna the incarnation in the age of Duaapar and Jesus it was feared by the then kings that they would be killed by the respective babies when they grew up and hence had ordered killing of the new born babies; both escaped death.

    In the case of Krishna his uncle the King Kansa had all the babies born to his sister Devki killed but with Divine help Krishna`s father took him away and replaced him with a girl whom Kansa spared.

    In the case of Jesus the New Testament says King Herod wanted to have Jesus killed:
    And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
    When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt (Matthew 2:13-14).

    There are no such stories in Sikh history.

    Places of Worship.
    A Hindu temple is named after the deity whose image is installed therein. Most of the deities are gods and goddesses. The Arya Samaj also has its own temples with no images.
    No uniform practices for worship have been laid down for temples.

    The Christian Churches are named generally according the denomination that run them. Some of them are also named after saints and apostles. The practices in different churches are not uniform.

    The Sikh place of worship is called Gurduara meaning the abode of, or gate to, the Guru. All Gurduaras have uniform practices with the Divine word in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib installed therein. Since the Sikh faith is the youngest with historicity well verified some Gurduaras have been established at places associated with the Gurus or other distinguished personalities and bear their names. No images of the Gurus or any one else are installed therein. Most Gurduaras not connected with history are named "Sri Guru Singh Sabha" the historical movement that obtained control of Gurduaras from government appointed priests inn the 1920's.

    Caste System.
    The Hindus have a well established caste system as laid down by Manu and is called the Varanashram. Social contacts like marriages in the Hindus are restricted within each of the four castes namely Brahmin the priestly class, Kashsatriyas the nobles and warriors, Vaishs the traders and farmers and Shudras the menial workers who serve the upper castes. The Shudras are considered untouchables and not allowed to enter temples.

    The Christians have no laid down caste system but the different denominations treat one another the same way as the castes in Hindus. They have different churches and marry within their denominations. Efforts are made to obtain conversions from other denominations. Inter-denomination antagonism is exemplified by the violence between Roman Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland until recently.

    No caste distinction is observed amongst the Sikhs. The Gurduaras are open to all including those of other faiths. Motivated attempts have been made to call certain groups like the Nirankaris and Radhaswamis as sects of the Sikhs. However they are not Sikhs.

    Lights, Incense and Bells
    Lighting lamps or candles, burning of incense and ringing of bells are common practices in temples and churches.

    In Hindu temples lights in the form of oil lamps or candles are lit. In Aarti, a standing prayer, a salver with lamps and incense in one hand and a hand bell in the other are pre-requisites.

    Use of lights in Christian churches is based on Jesus' Sermon on the Mount
    Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
    Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5:15-16).

    Similarly use of incense is based on:
    And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh (Mattew 2:11).

    There is no such practice in the Gurduaras as taught by Guru Nanak. He went to the Hindu temple town of Jagannath Puri in the state of Orissa in India and was asked to participate in the Aarti before the deity's idol. He declined saying nature is performing Aarti of the Lord all the time and he participates in that:
    Gagan mai thaal ravi chan Deepak banay taarika mandal janak moti;
    Dhoop malyaanlo pavan chvro karay sagal banraai phoolaant joti.

    Sky is the salver, the sun and moon the lights;
    The stars are the jewels in the salver,
    The fragrance of the sandalwood is the incense; the wind waves the fan,
    All the vegetation is the flowers.
    This is the Aarti I participate in (M: 1, SGGS, p 663).

    Praying on the Mountains
    The Hindus have most of their sacred temples on top of the mountains. The more famous ones in the Himalayan ranges are Kedarnath, Badrinath and Amarnath. Devout Hindus visit these temples whenever they are accessible after the snow melts.

    Whenever Jesus wanted to pray he went to a mountain. He gave the Sermon on the Mount from a mountain (Matthew 5:1-2). When his followers wanted to know about his second coming they went to him on a mountain (Matt 24:3). Similarly after the last supper when his arrest seemed imminent he went to the mount of Olives to pray (Matt 26:30).

    There is no practice of going to the mountains amongst Sikhs. However seeing what others do, in the recent past a practice of going to a place called Hemkunt Sahib in the Himalayas has started. It is believed that the Guru Gobind Singh performed penance at this place in his previous birth but has no other historical evidence.

    Havan, Burnt offerings
    Sacrifices are sanctioned both by the Hindu and Christian scriptures.

    Sacrifice is called Yajna in Hindu parlance and is considered virtuous:
    All these performers who know the meaning of sacrifice become cleansed of sinful reactions, and, having tasted the nectar of the results of sacrifices, they advance toward the supreme eternal atmosphere (Gita 4:30).
    The Hindus do this either by performing Havan which entails burning Saamagri or in some cases offering animal sacrifices.

    The Bible exhorts people to make burnt offerings:
    If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
    And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him. (Leviticus 1:3-4).
    Some Christians are of the opinion that this was applicable in the times of the Old Testament. However Jesus fully endorsed that law:
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled (Matthew 5:18).

    There is no place for any sacrifices in Sikh beliefs. The practice is rejected forthright because the one being sacrificed also has God's light in it:
    Jau sabh mehi ayk khuda kahat ho tu kio murgi marai.
    When you say one God abides in all then why do you sacrifice birds? (Kabir, SGGS, p 1350).

    Circumcision
    The Hindus do not follow the practice of circumcision.

    Circumcision on the eighth day after birth of the male child is laid down in the Old Testament which is applicable to the descendents of Abraham i.e. Jews, Christians and Muslims:
    And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
    This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised (Genesis 17:9-10).
    However the Christians do not follow it as is the Hindu practice, while Jews and Muslims do.

    In Sikh religion there is no provision for circumcision. In fact it is forbidden because it is linked with satisfying lust;it has nothing to do with faith:
    Jau ray khudaaey mohi turk karayga aapan hi kati jaae.
    If God wanted me to be a Muslim I would have been automatically circumcised (Kabir, SGGS, p 477).

    Covering the head when praying
    It is not compulsory for the Hindus to cover the head when praying.

    Amongst the Semitic faiths the Jews and Muslims cover their head when praying but the Christians follow the Hindu way.
    Here again the Christians have followed the Hindus.

    All Sikh men and women keep their head covered when praying and even otherwise.

    Baptism
    There is no baptism in the Hindu faith. They however visit pilgrimage centers on special occasions for baths which are believed to purify.

    The Christian baptism is given to those who repent and wish to be purified. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist by way of a dip in the river Jordan:
    Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him (Matthew 3:13).

    The Hindu and Christian procedures for purification are thus similar.

    The Sikh ceremony of baptism is one of drinking nectar prepared while praying, as a double edged dagger called the Khanda is moved through it. This is meant to give a life of a saint-soldier with strict discipline and responsibilities.

    Idol Worship
    The Hindus worship the idols of gods and goddesses installed in the respective temples and at home.

    The Ten Commandments which form the basis of Semitic belief say:
    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
    Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; (Exodus 20:4-5).

    This is strictly followed by the Jews and Muslims but some Christians like the Roman Catholics worship the Cross, Jesus' mother Mary and Jesus himself, like the Hindu practice.

    The Sikh faith rejects idol worship:
    Jo paathar ko kehtay dev; ta ki birtha havai sev.
    Those who treat stone images as God, their worship goes waste (M: 5, SGGS, p 1160)

    Renunciation
    The Hindu scriptures divide human life into four phases each of 25 years. They are Brahmacharya or remaining celibate and learning, Grihstha or life of a householder, Vanaprastha or teaching and guiding younger generations, and Sanyasa or renunciation. In the last phase man or woman breaks with the activities of the world, gives up what he or she has and spends time in meditation and contemplation.

    The Bible also teaches complete renunciation. The Bible shows that when a couple sold off their belongings but kept a portion of money for their use, they were chided by the apostle Peter:
    But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
    And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
    But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? (Acts: 5:1-3).

    This practice is not being followed in modern times.

    The Sikh faith does not favor renouncing the world but being useful to the society. It exhorts people to renounce evils instead:
    Prathmay chhodee praaee ninda; utari gaee sabh mann kee chinda;
    Lobhu mohu sabhu keeno doori; parm baisno prabh paykh hajoori:1:
    Aisay tiaagee virlaa koay; Hai Hari naamu japai janu soay.

    First give up slandering others; you will then be at peace;
    Shed greed, attachment and other vices; this way you will purify yourself and have a vision of God;
    Such renouncees always remember God but are rare (M: 5, SGGS, p 1147).

    Also even if one renounces the world the body still needs at least food, clothes and a place to stay. For this one has to look to others:
    Haath kamandal kaapreea mani trisnaa upjee bhaaree.
    Istree taji kari kaam viaapiaa chitu laiaa par naaree.
    A renouncee displays a begging bowl and tattered clothes but his mind has strong craving;
    He leaves his own wife but gripped by lust thinks of other women (M: 1, SGGS, p 1103).

    Priestly Classes
    Both the Hindus and Christians have powerful priestly classes. No religious functions can be held without their being present. All family functions on occasions like births, weddings and deaths are conducted by them.

    There is no priestly class in Sikh religion. All functions can be conducted by any one who has knowledge about them. It is easy and has been laid down in the Sikh Reht Maryada or Code of Conduct.

    Count of Twelve.
    The Hindu Yogis have 12 groups.

    Jesus also had 12 disciples. This was also to match with the 12 tribes of the Jews.

    This number has no importance with the Sikhs.

    Status of Women
    The status of a woman in Hinduism shows dichotomy. Spiritually she is accorded the status of Devi or Shakti and worshipped. Socially she is considered lower than man. For example she is called Ardhaangni or half body of man. Also as per the old tradition a woman was required to commit sati i.e. enter the pyre on which her husband was being cremated. In other words she has no independent status. She is expected to accept the husband as Pati Parmeshwar, husband-God.

    The Bible says exactly the same thing:
    Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord (Ephesians5:22).
    Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands (1 Peter 3:1)

    According to the Bible the woman owes her existence to man because Eve was created from Adam's rib:
    And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
    And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (Genesis 2:22-23).

    In Gurbani the husband and wife are treated as equal. Guru Nanak says:
    Naari purakh sirjeeai bikh maaiaa mohu piaaro.
    God created females and males and with it attachment to things transitory (M: 1, SGGS, p 580).

    Fasts
    The Hindus observe fasts on many days according to the lunar calendar. Some also do so on a particular day in a week or on other occasions. Married women observe the fast of Karva Chauth praying for the welfare of their husbands.

    The Bible also considers fasting virtuous:
    But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; (Matt 6:17).
    And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting (Mark:9:29).
    I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess (Luke 18:12).

    Gurbani does not approve of fasting:
    Iki ann na khaaey moorakh tinaa kia keejaee;
    Trisna hoee bahutu kivai na dheejaee
    It is unwise not to eat food; how to tell them that these do not please God;
    It only increases craving which is not satisfied with any thing else (M:3, SGGS, p 1285).

    Dogmas
    Dogma is a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof.

    The Hindus believe in the Ramayana story of Rama's army crossing the sea to Lanka on a bridge made by throwing stones with `Rama' written on them.

    The Old Testament similarly says the Red Sea parted to make way for Moses and his people when they left Egypt:
    And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided (Exodus 14:21).

    There are no dogmas in Sikhi.

    As may be seen Christianity follows the Hindu practices even when they conflict with the directions to the Semitic faiths. This is in contrast to the Jews and Muslims who follow them diligently. How exactly this happened is not clear.

    The Sikh faith follows an independent path and is therefore unique. It follows a path devoid of rituals and dogmas which is the case with Hinduism and also with Christianity.

    What do SPN members think ??
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    What do SPN members think ??

    Gyani ji -- Well I think it is an amazing discovery of an author with an amazing thesis. Do you find yourself thinking that Rawel Singh ji has spent time and serious contemplation considering the similarities? :idea:

    I do

    He offers a fresh perspective -- not unlike the waiter in a restaurant who pulls the table cloth with one swift movement off the table, leaving all the dishes in place. Neat, sudden, and changing the landscape of the debate completely.

    Here is one little hypothesis on my part about the similarities. I don't think Rawel Singh is off-base at all. The Christianity that is practiced today, and practiced from about the 4th Century CE/AD, draws from eastern philosophies more than western devotees realize. Christian cosmology borrowed from Syrian/Roman sources (worship of Mithras), and something called Graeco-Buddhism which persisted in the Mediterranean area for several centuries, and from contact with Asian philosophies that found their way through Turkey where early Christian traditions were shaped in the Byzantine world of the first Christian emperor Constantine and his mother Hellena. The world then was afloat in eastern ritual and belief. Warrants more investigation.
     
  4. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    Well we can connect islam and Hinduism too if we like but what is mentioned feels to be like ' Thank God I am not like a Hindu '

     
  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    The person to write this is suffering from hinduphobia. (quoted) from above post.

    rajkhalsa ji

    I think the person who wrote the article isn't suffering from hinduphobia. He is suffering from "hindupanditphobia". After generations, even centuries of being lectured on this point, one Sikh finally decided to do something about it. "hindupanditphobia" has a good ring to it!
     
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  6. Archived_member7

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    Well it is his virtual creation ..what has been preached is recent ..nothing in the past....it a created scarecrow...what now needs to be done ..instead of the pundit's head gear ..it needs to be replaced with the skull cap...:D
     
  7. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    I don't think the article indicates taht he has any phobia.
    i think anyone who thinks he has a phobia, has a phobia of phobias. :D

    raj Khalsa, I noticed some errors in your logic. i will point out with correct vocbulary so that you may learn to avoid them, in a later post.
    For one you call it your opinion but give a reason so it really becomes an argument. :)
     
  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    and then this email..from a DALIT HINDU...arrived in the mail today..Read On..
    Received from kay_em_bee@yahoo.co.in

    If you have NO time to read this, I pity you & your children’s future in India. If you allow this can continue, Shame on you. Hence, please read.

    BRAHMIN (Aryans) versus YOU - When will Brahminical rulers apologize for racism?

    Recently both Hindu Thevar Community and Hindu Dalit were fighting with each other at the Dr. Ambedkar University. All due to caste based problems only. But no one bothered to understand who create this division amount the innocent Hindus. Brahmanism is surviving because they have created the caste system and all our blood is contaminated with “Caste Virus” only.

    Brahmin worries about crème layer of Dalits. But who worry about the crème layer of Brahmins who rule over us all these years! Now please read this …..

    Bangalore : No crime in history is so long lasting, more serious and diabolically inhuman than the Hindu racism inflicted on a third of India’s indigenous Black Untouchables – sanction by the very religion and gods of Hindus, the micro=minority (15%) rules of India.
    In South Africa, the White British Christians said sorry and packed off.
    In Australia, its new Labour Prime Minister recently offered an apology to its 55,000 aboriginals.
    Canada followed with an unqualified apology to its 1 million indigenous Innuit and Metis on June 11, 2008 – together constituting a mere 3.8% of its population.

    South Africa, Australia and Canada, all rules by White Western Christian settlers, understand the value of saying sorry when the state has harmed its citizens. How did these three rulers admit their crime and apologize? Because all of them are Christians and their scriptures and god shaped their value system to admit the guilt and say sorry.

    But India’s Hindu scriptures and gods never inculcated in their followers any such values. Because their scriptures and gods themselves preached and practiced raciest violence.
    And that is how the world’s largest indigenous population of India, the Black Untouchables, are still suffering the worst apartheid unheard of in any part of the world. Most of India’s media is owned by Brahminical and Govt. agencies daily report racist violence. (Courtesy : Dalit Voice – July 16 – 31, 2008 - Available from Dalit Voice, 109/7th Cross, Palace Lower )Orchards, Bangalore 560 003, India – – Fax-Phone : 091-080-233 66 771) – Email : vtr@ndf.vsnl.net.in, dalitvoice@rediffmail.com - Website : www.dalitvoice.org

    In the name of religion, Brahmins have poisoned the innocent peace loving Hindus and the following:
    Brahmins – Based on the Manu, these Brahmins are the superiors to all the above 3 categories.
    Ksatriyas – Warriors and Rules – Ksatriyas’ masters are Brahmins
    Vaisyas – Farmars, Merchants, Artisans, etc. - Like Ksatriys, Vaisyas also obey Brahmins.
    Sudras - Polluted Labourers – Outcastes (Mr. Narendra Modi said by doing scavenger job (cleaning human waste), Sudras can attain higher status. What kind of racism is this?
    Experts believe that this kind of mental bond will never be broken for another 200 years.

    Bhagavad Gita claims that Brahmins are superiors over the other three castes because of the “powers of Brahmin born nature”. http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm
    Brahmins always praise Bhagwad Gita as a “guidelines to the world”. Quoting versus from Gita is a fashion to Brahmins now a days.

    But look at what really Bhagawad Gita says :
    How to find joy and success in whatever you do? (To promote GITA, the Brahmins make this advertisement). It reads as follows:
    The Bhagavad Gita is a simple technique for everyday life, a timeless wisdom that sets you FREE from the stress and strain of the modern world. Vedanta Life Institute invites you to a series of discourses in English by Swami Parthasarthy (Brahmin). You too, can learn how to use the Gita in a practical way. Whether it be for success or to make yourself a better person, everyday, in every way. : Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan
    “I have created the four castes in which Brahmin holds the highest rank”. (Chapter 4 – Sloga 13) claiming Brahmins superiority is the main theme of Brahminism. This itself shows how Brahmins are racist.
    Also Gita claims that “Brahmin is superior than any one by nature”. Also it says by birth a “Brahmin is created Great”. (Chapter 18).
    “Serving the high caste Brahmin is the duty of Sudras (untouchable)” is also advocated by the same Gita (Chapter 18).
    “Ladies, Vaisiyas, Sudras are all sinners and undependable” claims the same Gita (Chapter 9, Sloga 32).
    When a man reaches “Shithap Prapancha” he becomes “Samadarsi”. After that he will “see a Educated Brahmin, a Cow, and an Elephant equally”. (Chapter 15, Suloga 8).
    “Dogs and sudhras (untouchable i.e. Harijans) are equal” claims Gita. (Chapter 18).
    These are the samples of the Great Gita’s golden words.
    To keep their supremacy over the 95% of India’s total population, these Brahmins claim that the Gita is the Bible of Hinduism.
    Don’t you realize that the Gita is responsible for dividing and DE-HUMANISING Indian Society? To serve the conspiracy of Brahmins, you are embarking on a dangerous path way. We as patriotic Indian would expose Gita and the Brahmins.
    As a result, the innocent Hindus last their self respect to Brahmins and carry a shameful identity as a Nadar, Vanniar, Dalits, etc. identity until their death whereas these cunning Brahmins enjoys the fruits of their Manu based superiority over these son of the soil.

    These Brahmins have distorted Indian Independent History. Made the innocent good hearted Hindus in to so many castes and tribes and made them to fight each other, so that they can be a super power. Whatever negative incidents happening in India, if you look at carefully, the Brahmins hands will be behind them. It may be Orissa violence, Terrorism, Sethu Project or Babri Masjid, you can find there the Brahmins are the originators without anyone noticing it. As a result today each and every caste is fighting each other, in some Tamilnadu Villages there are separate tumblers to drink teas. The Dalits cannot walk on the main roads, where the Brahmins have dominations.

    These Brahmins never built a temple themselves. But once the Dalits completed the construction, they occupy it and will never allow those Dalits to enter the temple. What a shame?

    Who are these Brahmins? They came from Central Asia via Khyber Pass and enslaved the innocent Indians and brainwashed them to follow their divide and rule policy of Manu Dharma dividing the communities into four categories and they become the master of the other communities.
    Can anyone become a Brahmin? To become a Brahmin one has to die more than once depending on his category. But conveniently Brahmins allow white skinners (eg. American and British) to become Brahmin. In India if any Christian or Muslim wants to convert, it is not allowed. This shows how “racist” are these Brahmins.
    Indian Historians 70% who are Brahmins used to write “Arrival of Aryans when they mention about Brahmins arrival to India via Khyber pass whereas they write about Moghuls as “invasion of Moghuls” with a double tongue.
    How they have achieved success by dividing Indians.

    1. Dividing Indians into 4 castes and creating divisions among them. This curse will be for ever as long as people remain as Hindus. Manu based Brahmins got the superiority as a blessed one whereas all the other three categories are fighting each other to have their shares in the Nations opportunity. As a result all the three categories are further divided and fighting each other while Brahmins act as a Super power and fooling the 97% of the India’s populations. What a shame in this 20th century.
    2. Creating hatred among Christians and Hindus, Muslims and Hindus so that they can enjoy the fruit of this hatred.
    3. Spreading blind faith among Hindus such as Astrology, Vaasthu (now Vaasthu for paints also available), Namelogy, etc. to keep the Hindus under Brahmins control. Sastra University has introduced M.A. Astrology course so that the Brahmins can control the innocent Hindu masses.
    4. The Brahmin media (eg. Dinamalar) always publish information regarding sexual misconduct of Christian Priests regularly.
    5. Also purposefully the Dinamalar published a cartoon of a Muslim Prophet on the first day of Ramadhan in order to divide both Hindus and Muslims in a sinister motive. Dinamalar knows very well what kind of rage that the Denmark newspaper publishing similar picture in the media very well. These kind of hatred policy of Brahmin media is increasing the innumerable problem of India. The Caste System in Hinduism
    6. When Periar fought against Brahminism, Mr. Rajaji (Brahmin) brought a law that only Brahmin can study and non-Brahmins have to work as there forefathers (eg. a Brahmin’s son can become an IAS officer and a cobbler’s son will become a cobbler). What an atrocity? You can get more information from Unmai, Monthly, Periyar Thidal, 50, E.V.K.Sampath Road, Vepery, Chennai - 600 007. Tamil Nadu – India, Tel. : 91 - 44 - 2661 8163, Fax : 91 - 44 - 2661 8866, E-mail : periyar@vsnl.com, Web : www.periyar.org
    7. To day 95% of Brahmins are literate whereas the majority Dalits are not even 27% literate.
    As a result, today 5% of Brahmins enjoy maximum amount of benefits (approx. 80%). To give a small example : Chennai IITs total staff 400 numbers – out of which no Christians and no Muslims. Wow, what a success through their sinister divide and rule policy. As the situation stands today, the Black Untouchables (Dalits) constituting over 20% of India’s 1,200 million population are totally friendless outside and helpless inside.

    Hindu Caste System (Manu based)
    Brahmins – Priests and Teachers – Highest creation (Brahmins claims about themselves) – India’s population of Brahmins are 3 – 5% only. But comfortably ruling India – Most of India’s Prime Ministers and Presidents are Brahmins. High officials – above 70% are Brahmins today. When Mr. V.P. Singh, Former Prime Minister, Brahmins comfortably topped him with their cunningness.
    To keep their supremacy over the 95% of India’s population, these Brahmins claims that the Gita is the Bible of Hinduism.
    Don’t you realize that the Gita is responsible for dividing and DE-HUMANISING Indian Society? To server the conspiracy of Brahmins, you are embarking on a dangerous path way. We the patriotic Indian would expose Gita and the Brahmins.
    As a result today 90% of senior positions in the Government offices are belongs to those 5% of Indian Brahmins. http://humanists.net/avijit/article/oh_hindu_awake.htm
    How they enslave the innocent Hindus?
    The master mind Brahmins cunningly designed the Manu to keep the innocent Hindus by enslaving them mentally. From birth to death, they cover systematically so that the mental bondage of a Hindu will remain for every.

    1. From the birth of the child, they come and say – the child born as per astrological prediction and identify one of the 9 planets relating to the child.
    2. At the time of marriage, they fix the date, and verify the horoscope of both groom and bride groom and they only can perform their marriage too.
    3. In the death also they come and perform the rituals.
    Hence automatically the Hindus believe in them and accept them as their master.
    What is the solution for India? Indian Government has innumerable laws but never implemented to remove Brahminical racism even today. Otherwise SC/ST & Dalits have to live with a FEAR in their minds until their death.
    Only Muslims and Christians have come out (100% Untouchability FREE) of the sinister Brahmin racism fold. But most the Dalits are still suffering from the Brahminical racism. Cunningly, these Brahmins under the divide and rule policy with the help of their own powerful media is still keep the Dalits of India as a “damn fool” society. The experts believe that these Dalits will never get freedom even after 100 years and suffer as a result of their ignorance. According to Islam & Christianity, racism is a big sin. But according to Manu, racism is appreciated & implemented as a duty of Brahmin. To know more, please visit : Forward
    In order to cover their fraudulent activities, Brahmins play conversion as well as terrorism issues to hide their supremacy over other castes. In these issues, they never involve publicly but cunningly motivate the innocent Hindus to fight against their own brothers. Those who realized the Brahmin sinister plans like Periyar (now K. Veeramani), Dr.Ambed-kar, Dalit Voice Rajasekhar are not able to break the Brahmin supremacy even today.
    The only solution is to escape from Hinduism to any other religion which has no racism in it. Tell us how you will make a breakthrough to fight Brahminism.
    Please type in the google search : “Brahmin atrocities”. Tears will come to you.
    To save India, kindly circulate this to all. Regards.
    Wake-up my brothers / sisters & save you and your Children’s future from these Brahmins! Please do something before you DIE so that they can FREE themselves.
    )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
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    and then this email..from a DALIT HINDU...arrived in the mail today..Read On.. Is this the real HINDUISM ?? Can any elements of this be in SIKHISM so that Hindus can say Sikhs are Hindus ??
    Received from kay_em_bee@yahoo.co.in

    If you have NO time to read this, I pity you & your children’s future in India. If you allow this can continue, Shame on you. Hence, please read.

    BRAHMIN (Aryans) versus YOU - When will Brahminical rulers apologize for racism?

    Recently both Hindu Thevar Community and Hindu Dalit were fighting with each other at the Dr. Ambedkar University. All due to caste based problems only. But no one bothered to understand who create this division amount the innocent Hindus. Brahmanism is surviving because they have created the caste system and all our blood is contaminated with “Caste Virus” only.

    Brahmin worries about crème layer of Dalits. But who worry about the crème layer of Brahmins who rule over us all these years! Now please read this …..

    Bangalore : No crime in history is so long lasting, more serious and diabolically inhuman than the Hindu racism inflicted on a third of India’s indigenous Black Untouchables – sanction by the very religion and gods of Hindus, the micro=minority (15%) rules of India.
    In South Africa, the White British Christians said sorry and packed off.
    In Australia, its new Labour Prime Minister recently offered an apology to its 55,000 aboriginals.
    Canada followed with an unqualified apology to its 1 million indigenous Innuit and Metis on June 11, 2008 – together constituting a mere 3.8% of its population.

    South Africa, Australia and Canada, all rules by White Western Christian settlers, understand the value of saying sorry when the state has harmed its citizens. How did these three rulers admit their crime and apologize? Because all of them are Christians and their scriptures and god shaped their value system to admit the guilt and say sorry.

    But India’s Hindu scriptures and gods never inculcated in their followers any such values. Because their scriptures and gods themselves preached and practiced raciest violence.
    And that is how the world’s largest indigenous population of India, the Black Untouchables, are still suffering the worst apartheid unheard of in any part of the world. Most of India’s media is owned by Brahminical and Govt. agencies daily report racist violence. (Courtesy : Dalit Voice – July 16 – 31, 2008 - Available from Dalit Voice, 109/7th Cross, Palace Lower )Orchards, Bangalore 560 003, India – – Fax-Phone : 091-080-233 66 771) – Email : vtr@ndf.vsnl.net.in, dalitvoice@rediffmail.com - Website : www.dalitvoice.org

    In the name of religion, Brahmins have poisoned the innocent peace loving Hindus and the following:
    Brahmins – Based on the Manu, these Brahmins are the superiors to all the above 3 categories.
    Ksatriyas – Warriors and Rules – Ksatriyas’ masters are Brahmins
    Vaisyas – Farmars, Merchants, Artisans, etc. - Like Ksatriys, Vaisyas also obey Brahmins.
    Sudras - Polluted Labourers – Outcastes (Mr. Narendra Modi said by doing scavenger job (cleaning human waste), Sudras can attain higher status. What kind of racism is this?
    Experts believe that this kind of mental bond will never be broken for another 200 years.

    Bhagavad Gita claims that Brahmins are superiors over the other three castes because of the “powers of Brahmin born nature”. http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm
    Brahmins always praise Bhagwad Gita as a “guidelines to the world”. Quoting versus from Gita is a fashion to Brahmins now a days.

    But look at what really Bhagawad Gita says :
    How to find joy and success in whatever you do? (To promote GITA, the Brahmins make this advertisement). It reads as follows:
    The Bhagavad Gita is a simple technique for everyday life, a timeless wisdom that sets you FREE from the stress and strain of the modern world. Vedanta Life Institute invites you to a series of discourses in English by Swami Parthasarthy (Brahmin). You too, can learn how to use the Gita in a practical way. Whether it be for success or to make yourself a better person, everyday, in every way. : Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan
    “I have created the four castes in which Brahmin holds the highest rank”. (Chapter 4 – Sloga 13) claiming Brahmins superiority is the main theme of Brahminism. This itself shows how Brahmins are racist.
    Also Gita claims that “Brahmin is superior than any one by nature”. Also it says by birth a “Brahmin is created Great”. (Chapter 18).
    “Serving the high caste Brahmin is the duty of Sudras (untouchable)” is also advocated by the same Gita (Chapter 18).
    “Ladies, Vaisiyas, Sudras are all sinners and undependable” claims the same Gita (Chapter 9, Sloga 32).
    When a man reaches “Shithap Prapancha” he becomes “Samadarsi”. After that he will “see a Educated Brahmin, a Cow, and an Elephant equally”. (Chapter 15, Suloga 8).
    “Dogs and sudhras (untouchable i.e. Harijans) are equal” claims Gita. (Chapter 18).
    These are the samples of the Great Gita’s golden words.
    To keep their supremacy over the 95% of India’s total population, these Brahmins claim that the Gita is the Bible of Hinduism.
    Don’t you realize that the Gita is responsible for dividing and DE-HUMANISING Indian Society? To serve the conspiracy of Brahmins, you are embarking on a dangerous path way. We as patriotic Indian would expose Gita and the Brahmins.
    As a result, the innocent Hindus last their self respect to Brahmins and carry a shameful identity as a Nadar, Vanniar, Dalits, etc. identity until their death whereas these cunning Brahmins enjoys the fruits of their Manu based superiority over these son of the soil.

    These Brahmins have distorted Indian Independent History. Made the innocent good hearted Hindus in to so many castes and tribes and made them to fight each other, so that they can be a super power. Whatever negative incidents happening in India, if you look at carefully, the Brahmins hands will be behind them. It may be Orissa violence, Terrorism, Sethu Project or Babri Masjid, you can find there the Brahmins are the originators without anyone noticing it. As a result today each and every caste is fighting each other, in some Tamilnadu Villages there are separate tumblers to drink teas. The Dalits cannot walk on the main roads, where the Brahmins have dominations.

    These Brahmins never built a temple themselves. But once the Dalits completed the construction, they occupy it and will never allow those Dalits to enter the temple. What a shame?

    Who are these Brahmins? They came from Central Asia via Khyber Pass and enslaved the innocent Indians and brainwashed them to follow their divide and rule policy of Manu Dharma dividing the communities into four categories and they become the master of the other communities.
    Can anyone become a Brahmin? To become a Brahmin one has to die more than once depending on his category. But conveniently Brahmins allow white skinners (eg. American and British) to become Brahmin. In India if any Christian or Muslim wants to convert, it is not allowed. This shows how “racist” are these Brahmins.
    Indian Historians 70% who are Brahmins used to write “Arrival of Aryans when they mention about Brahmins arrival to India via Khyber pass whereas they write about Moghuls as “invasion of Moghuls” with a double tongue.
    How they have achieved success by dividing Indians.

    1. Dividing Indians into 4 castes and creating divisions among them. This curse will be for ever as long as people remain as Hindus. Manu based Brahmins got the superiority as a blessed one whereas all the other three categories are fighting each other to have their shares in the Nations opportunity. As a result all the three categories are further divided and fighting each other while Brahmins act as a Super power and fooling the 97% of the India’s populations. What a shame in this 20th century.
    2. Creating hatred among Christians and Hindus, Muslims and Hindus so that they can enjoy the fruit of this hatred.
    3. Spreading blind faith among Hindus such as Astrology, Vaasthu (now Vaasthu for paints also available), Namelogy, etc. to keep the Hindus under Brahmins control. Sastra University has introduced M.A. Astrology course so that the Brahmins can control the innocent Hindu masses.
    4. The Brahmin media (eg. Dinamalar) always publish information regarding sexual misconduct of Christian Priests regularly.
    5. Also purposefully the Dinamalar published a cartoon of a Muslim Prophet on the first day of Ramadhan in order to divide both Hindus and Muslims in a sinister motive. Dinamalar knows very well what kind of rage that the Denmark newspaper publishing similar picture in the media very well. These kind of hatred policy of Brahmin media is increasing the innumerable problem of India. The Caste System in Hinduism
    6. When Periar fought against Brahminism, Mr. Rajaji (Brahmin) brought a law that only Brahmin can study and non-Brahmins have to work as there forefathers (eg. a Brahmin’s son can become an IAS officer and a cobbler’s son will become a cobbler). What an atrocity? You can get more information from Unmai, Monthly, Periyar Thidal, 50, E.V.K.Sampath Road, Vepery, Chennai - 600 007. Tamil Nadu – India, Tel. : 91 - 44 - 2661 8163, Fax : 91 - 44 - 2661 8866, E-mail : periyar@vsnl.com, Web : www.periyar.org
    7. To day 95% of Brahmins are literate whereas the majority Dalits are not even 27% literate.
    As a result, today 5% of Brahmins enjoy maximum amount of benefits (approx. 80%). To give a small example : Chennai IITs total staff 400 numbers – out of which no Christians and no Muslims. Wow, what a success through their sinister divide and rule policy. As the situation stands today, the Black Untouchables (Dalits) constituting over 20% of India’s 1,200 million population are totally friendless outside and helpless inside.

    Hindu Caste System (Manu based)
    Brahmins – Priests and Teachers – Highest creation (Brahmins claims about themselves) – India’s population of Brahmins are 3 – 5% only. But comfortably ruling India – Most of India’s Prime Ministers and Presidents are Brahmins. High officials – above 70% are Brahmins today. When Mr. V.P. Singh, Former Prime Minister, Brahmins comfortably topped him with their cunningness.
    To keep their supremacy over the 95% of India’s population, these Brahmins claims that the Gita is the Bible of Hinduism.
    Don’t you realize that the Gita is responsible for dividing and DE-HUMANISING Indian Society? To server the conspiracy of Brahmins, you are embarking on a dangerous path way. We the patriotic Indian would expose Gita and the Brahmins.
    As a result today 90% of senior positions in the Government offices are belongs to those 5% of Indian Brahmins. http://humanists.net/avijit/article/oh_hindu_awake.htm
    How they enslave the innocent Hindus?
    The master mind Brahmins cunningly designed the Manu to keep the innocent Hindus by enslaving them mentally. From birth to death, they cover systematically so that the mental bondage of a Hindu will remain for every.

    1. From the birth of the child, they come and say – the child born as per astrological prediction and identify one of the 9 planets relating to the child.
    2. At the time of marriage, they fix the date, and verify the horoscope of both groom and bride groom and they only can perform their marriage too.
    3. In the death also they come and perform the rituals.
    Hence automatically the Hindus believe in them and accept them as their master.
    What is the solution for India? Indian Government has innumerable laws but never implemented to remove Brahminical racism even today. Otherwise SC/ST & Dalits have to live with a FEAR in their minds until their death.
    Only Muslims and Christians have come out (100% Untouchability FREE) of the sinister Brahmin racism fold. But most the Dalits are still suffering from the Brahminical racism. Cunningly, these Brahmins under the divide and rule policy with the help of their own powerful media is still keep the Dalits of India as a “damn fool” society. The experts believe that these Dalits will never get freedom even after 100 years and suffer as a result of their ignorance. According to Islam & Christianity, racism is a big sin. But according to Manu, racism is appreciated & implemented as a duty of Brahmin. To know more, please visit : Forward
    In order to cover their fraudulent activities, Brahmins play conversion as well as terrorism issues to hide their supremacy over other castes. In these issues, they never involve publicly but cunningly motivate the innocent Hindus to fight against their own brothers. Those who realized the Brahmin sinister plans like Periyar (now K. Veeramani), Dr.Ambed-kar, Dalit Voice Rajasekhar are not able to break the Brahmin supremacy even today.
    The only solution is to escape from Hinduism to any other religion which has no racism in it. Tell us how you will make a breakthrough to fight Brahminism.
    Please type in the google search : “Brahmin atrocities”. Tears will come to you.
    To save India, kindly circulate this to all. Regards.
    Wake-up my brothers / sisters & save you and your Children’s future from these Brahmins! Please do something before you DIE so that they can FREE themselves.
    )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    We blame and curse hindus in general and brahimins in particular..without even having any knoweldge of what is what ..I am no lover of brahmins but again do not hold them alone responsible for the mess....the entire society is responsible ... here is an article ...from a Dalit site again ...first lets clean ourselves ...Bahujan Samaj


    Casteism among Sikhs

    [​IMG] Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 3:39 AM [​IMG] 45 [​IMG] 0

    By: Saurabh Kapoor at www.zeenews.com

    In the dead of the night, a blind man carrying a lantern bumped into
    another visually impaired gentleman clutching a lantern. Dazed by the
    incident the bloke shouted at his perpetrator: "Are you blind or
    something, even with all this light you can't see me."

    "YOU must be blind. Can't you see this lantern in my hand," retorted the
    other, anguished at the ignorance of his fellow being.

    This is precisely what is happening in Punjab these days. Herds of
    senseless blind men accusing each other of being sightless and flashing
    their respective lanterns have held the state to ransom.

    The Sikhs today are a divided house. How can, otherwise, a God-fearing
    Sikh ever explain existence of separate Gurudwaras for Dalits Sikhs? How
    can a true follower of the ten Gurus, who would disallow sangat(religious
    congregation) before pangat (community meal) to all their followers,
    recognize the fact that caste divisions exist in their religion and accept
    reservations to Dalit Sikhs?

    Harijan Sikhs or the Mazhabi Sikhs in Punjab form more than 30% of the
    state's population. 80% of them stay in villages. So villages in Punjab
    are predominantly Dalit but are controlled by affluent Jat Sikhs. In
    sooth, the economy, politics, culture of the state is dominated by this
    powerful landowning class- the Jat Sikhs.

    This is one of the major reasons behind mushrooming of around 9,000 deras
    in the state. Over three-fourth of the state's population visits these
    deras. With their back against the wall the marginalized searched for
    separate cultural space in Punjab. It all started as a battle for
    self-respect and now the Sikh clergy see it as a threat to their religion.

    They are a threat because they are asserting themselves politically,
    something the upper caste Sikhs can't stand.

    In recent times these deras put together have been used as a
    politico-religious tool by the Congress to counter SGPC support to the
    Akali Dal. (DSS with its 40 lakh followers supported Congress in the
    recent elections and helped it bag around 12 seats in Aklai dominated
    Malwa region.)

    But calling for the closure of these deras is not a workable solution. The
    problem is not the existence of these deras but the reasons behind their
    inception and the support they enjoy.

    Social boycott is not the answer, in fact, it's a pointer towards the real
    problem and that is the explosive divisions in Punjabi society; the
    deep-rooted social, economic and caste inequalities.

    Few years ago there was another insult to Guru Gobind Singh that had
    infuriated the Jat Sikhs in Punjab. In the sleepy village of Bhail in
    Taran Taran district, the Mazhabi Sikhs took out a procession to mark the
    birthday of the 10th Guru.

    Traditionally the procession had been taken out by Jat Gurudwaras, four of
    them in the area taking turns to do so. But when Mazhabi Sikhs, who had
    built a Gurudwara of their own in the village, collected Rs 10,000 and
    expressed desire to take out a procession from their mud-floored
    Gurudwara, the Jats were outraged. It was an open challenge to the
    supremacy of Jat zamidars.

    The procession went ahead in defiance and retaliation followed soon. Armed
    with sticks the Jats prevented the Mazhabis from entering their fields for
    three days.

    60-year-old Hazara Singh was prevented from cremating his 22-year old
    daughter Binder at the village cremation ground. A dejected Hazara dumped
    the body into the river around 5 kms away from his village lugging it with
    two sacks of mud.

    More cremations were denied and the Mazabis were asked to build a separate
    cremation ground.

    A similar call for social boycott of the Dalits was given by the Jat Sikhs
    of Talhan near Jalandhar in 2003. Dalit Sikhs sought representation in the
    management of the Gurudwara at Talhan but were refused the same by local
    Sikh clergy. Clashes followed the decision and curfew had to be imposed to
    control the situation.

    People outside don't identify Punjab with such incidents. To a simple mind
    these tales don't happen in the prosperous land of five rivers. The truth
    is that the manifestation of caste division in the Punjab society is not
    Brahmanical. It is incredible though that a society where Brahmins have
    been immensely marginalized and are even a subject of ridicule, still
    retains its Brahmnical character.

    The Jats have always tried to culturally, socially, economically and
    politically marginalize the rest in Punjab. The movies, songs glorify them
    and not a Punjabi. Sikh politicians represent them and guard their
    interests in the name of the entire Sikh community.

    But times in Punjab are changing and they are changing fast.

    The Daltis in Punjab are looking for total emancipation. Immigration gave
    them economic independence and social status back home and now deras that
    earlier gave them spiritual solace are giving them political boldness.

    Someone who otherwise would have worked for less than Rs 100 per day as a
    farm labourer in Punjab now earns over a lakh per month after immigrating
    illegally and looks a Jat, known for their stiff upper lips, in the eye
    when he meets him abroad or in his village.

    Deras now hold sway over huge chunk of Punjab population and also pocket a
    much of the offerings in the state. This has made them precious for
    politicians in the state who come running for support turning these
    religious assemblies in political pressure groups.

    So, is Sikhi under threat? Yes, it is. There is a threat for sure but it
    is from within. The Sikh society is as casteist as the Hindu society.
    Sikhs cannot just wish away this reality by shouting from roof-tops that
    Sikhi is in danger, where the only danger that exists is to the interest
    of the affluent landowners of Punjab.

    More than eyesight, Punjabis today need commonsense to see the writing on
    the wall. But then again, there are none so blind than those who will not
    see.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    I appreciate and thank Aaad ji and Gyani Jarnail Singh ji for thanking me . I today would like to request something here. There is a Sikligar community residing close by and Punjabis as you know dislike them. I wish to do something for them. I have been planning to meet the leaders of the people residing there, i wasnt able to till now since I had just heard of them residing there and had no contacts. I have managed to find someone who has links with them and would take me there .

    My request to our SPN forum is .... I have experienced that this forum and most of its members are people with a much broader mindset and a deep sense of understanding and have not been religious bigots. I thank all of my brothers and sisters here since they have tolerated me and today my knowledge quest for Sikhi has increased due to SPN.

    I shall be completing 3 years on this forum on the 27th of March . As a tribute to SPN I would like to actively work for the upliftment of the Sikligar community. I would like to represent SPN and in every way try to assist our Sikligar brothers.

    My request to this forum is.... I wil be going and collecting data. Photos and current status of the families residing there .Do all of us think we should start a small project with them and if possible are we willing to assist them ? Please let me know your views. I shall be indebted to all of you if atleast one small thing emerges.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
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    rajkhalsa ji

    My suggestion is to start a brainstorming session in a separate thread. Throw out your basic ideas and give the membership about 2 weeks to read and react with ideas. Then create an outline of objectives. The n ext step would be to step back and give objectives each a priority. High Medium Low. Then the next step would be to figure out how to work on each objective -- also which can be implemented right away, and which ones need more time to prepare if you want to be effective.

    Just my thoughts on this.
     
  13. pk70

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    I think Gyani Jarnail Singh ji and Raj Khalsa ji have brought the complete picture before us. Consistent exploitation of people in the name of casts is disgusting, it becomes more shameful when it occurs at the hands of so called Sikhs.
     
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  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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  15. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    these links will be useful ..thanks a million Aad ji ....I just feel there is hell lot of unjustice done to them ...the law is after them, the punjabis hate them...they dont have education, chinese goods are pouring in ..knives, kirpans, locks all have been taken over ...when ever i see a Sikh lock maker i make it a point to ask if he is a Sikligar...

    Lets hope i can make it this weekend ...and get photos and data...i am still dependent on the contact ..
     
  16. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Gyani Ji

    I find this mail No less than a joke probably written by a christian missionaries.

    First of all why to only blame Brahmins?The rulers were mainly kshatriya's.First of all if aryan invasion theory is true then It is very much possible that kshatriyas are Aryan too
    so why the person is asking apology from brahmins?
     
  17. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    KDS ji you have hit it directly on the head ..it is very true ..such so called 'Dalits' are converts and all they do is this ...they are now no longer the 'Dalit' they would have been...People let me tell you this ..there is a word 'Deen Dalit' which means poor and downtrodden.....Dalit is no caste in its own ..it is a derived word.....

    I have been close to the Dalits in Mumbai..from common to political...tell me something ..If you sitting in a Merc with a champagne glass in your hand would you still be downtrodden ???? But this nonsensical caste politics has made this ...A close friend of mine is a so called ..Dalit ..his father heads a dept in the Mumbai University...has 2 houses, vehicles...but still is a Dalit...isnt that absurd ???Do you thinked he is shunned ??? No...no one bothers ...

    Now there have been so many such 'so called' Dalits who may want reservations and benefits..and keep whipping the dead horse ...

    Look I am not saying that there is no caste based nonsense going on ...I agree it is ..but for heaven sake we need to stop dowing another caste discrimination with Brahmins ...we are turning them into Dalits ..since they are being hated ...

    For the other world there are tons of such agencies who potray horribe pictures of India ..squeeze funds ..and enjoy ...

    i am coming with a thread which will clear doubts probably....todays caste wars are not kshatriya versus dalit or brahmin versus dalit ..they are so called low caste versus dalits ...or dalit versus tribals ...thevars and Nadars in Tamil are both of the so called lower 'caste'...i hate this word from the corner of my heart ..but unfortunately have to use it ...
     
  18. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    Are Brahmins today's Dalits?-An interesting article.

    Buzz up! ShareThisMay 27 2006 | Views 5104 | Comments (13)
    Tags: backward brahmins


    An interesting article in Rediff Today dated 24 May 2006

    Home>News <http://ia.rediff.com/news/index.html>>Columnists>*FrancoisGautier
    *

    Are Brahmins the Dalit of today?

    May 23, 2006

    At a time when the Congress government wants to raise the quota for Other Backward Classes to 49.5 per cent in private and public sectors, nobody talks about the plight of the upper castes. The public image of the Brahmins, for instance, is that of an affluent, pampered class. But is it so today?
    *There are 50 Sulabh Shauchalayas (public toilets) in Delhi; all of them are cleaned and looked after by Brahmins (this very welcome public institution was started by a Brahmin). A far cry from the elitist image that Brahmins have!There are five to six Brahmins manning each Shauchalaya. They came to Delhi eight to ten years back looking for a source of income, as they were a minority in most of their villages, where Dalits are in majority (60 percent to 65 per cent). In most villages in UP and Bihar, Dalits have a union which helps them secure jobs in villages.

    Did you know that you also stumble upon a number of Brahmins working as coolies at Delhi's railway stations? One of them, Kripa Shankar Sharma, says while his daughter is doing her Bachelors in Science he is not sure if she will secure a job.
    "Dalits often have five to six kids, but they are confident of placing them easily and well," he says. As a result, the Dalit population is increasing in villages. He adds: "Dalits are provided with housing, even their pigs have spaces; whereas there is no provision for *gaushalas* (cowsheds) for the cows of the Brahmins."
    *The middle class deserves what it is getting *<http://specials.rediff.com/news/2006/may/15sld1.htm>
    You also find Brahmin rickshaw pullers in Delhi. 50 per cent of PatelNagar's rickshaw pullers are Brahmins who like their brethren have moved to the city looking for jobs for lack of employment opportunities and poor education in their villages.
    Even after toiling the whole day, Vijay Pratap and Sidharth Tiwari, two Brahmin rickshaw pullers, say they are hardly able to make ends meet. These men make about Rs 100 to Rs 150 on an average every day from which they pay a daily rent of Rs 25 for their rickshaws and Rs 500 to Rs 600 towards the rent of their rooms which is shared by 3 to 4 people or their families.
    Did you also know that most rickshaw pullers in Banaras are Brahmins?
    *Do our institutes connect with the real
    India?*<http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/22guest1.htm>
    This reverse discrimination is also found in bureaucracy and politics. Most of the intellectual Brahmin Tamil class has emigrated outside Tamil Nadu.Only 5 seats out of 600 in the combined UP and Bihar assembly are held by Brahmins -- the rest are in the hands of the Yadavs.
    400,000 Brahmins of the Kashmir valley, the once respected Kashmiri Pandits,now live as refugees in their own country, sometimes in refugee camps in Jammu and Delhi in appalling conditions. But who gives a damn about them? Their vote bank is negligible.And this is not limited to the North alone. 75 per cent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins. A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra Pradesh (*Brahmins of India* by J Radhakrishna, published
    by Chugh Publications) reveals that today all purohits live below the poverty line.Eighty per cent of those surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of ridicule. Financial
    constraints coupled with the existing system of reservations for the'backward classes' prevented them from providing secular education to their children.
    *Who are the real Dalits of
    India?*<http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/oct/18franc.htm>
    In fact, according to this study there has been an overall decline in the number of Brahmin students. With the average income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins, a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the intermediate level. In the 5 to 18 year age group, 44 per cent Brahmin
    students stopped education at the primary level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level.
    The study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins lived below the poverty line -- below a per capita income of Rs 650 a month. Since 45 percent of the total population of India is officially stated to be below the poverty line it follows that the percentage of destitute Brahmins is 10 percent higher than the all-India figure. There is no reason to believe that the condition of Brahmins in other parts of the country is different. In this connection it would be revealing to
    quote the per capita income of various communities as stated by the Karnataka finance minister in the state assembly: Christians Rs 1,562,Vokkaligas Rs 914, Muslims Rs 794, Scheduled castes Rs 680, Scheduled TribesRs 577 and Brahmins Rs 537.
    Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins initially turned to government jobs and modern occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential policies for the non-Brahmins have forced Brahmins to retreat in these spheres as well.
    *Caste shouldn't overwrite merit*<http://in.rediff.com/money/2006/apr/12ram.htm>
    According to the Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins today are employed as domestic servants. The unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent. Seventy percent of Brahmins are still relying on their hereditary vocation. There are hundreds of families that are surviving
    on just Rs 500 per month as priests in various temples (Department of
    Endowments statistics).
    Priests are under tremendous difficulty today, sometimes even forced to beg for alms for survival. There are innumerable instances in which Brahmin priests who spent a lifetime studying Vedas are being ridiculed and disrespected.
    At Tamil Nadu's Ranganathaswamy Temple, a priest's monthly salary is Rs 300(Census Department studies) and a daily allowance of one measure of rice.
    The government staff at the same temple receive Rs 2,500 plus per month. But these facts have not modified the priests' reputation as 'haves' and as'exploiters.' The destitution of Hindu priests has moved none, not even the parties known for Hindu sympathy.
    The tragedy of modern India is that the combined votes of Dalits/OBC and Muslims are enough for any government to be elected. The Congress quickly cashed in on it after Independence, but probably no other government than Sonia Gandhi's has gone so far in shamelessly dividing Indian society forgarnering votes.
    *From the Indian Express: 'These measures will not achieve social
    justice' *<http://www.indianexpress.com/story/4916.html>
    The Indian government gives Rs 1,000 crores (Rs 10 billion) for salaries of imams in mosques and Rs 200 crores (Rs 2 billion) as Haj subsidies. But no such help is available to Brahmins and upper castes. As a result, not only the Brahmins, but also some of the other upper castes in the lower middle class are suffering in silence today, seeing the minorities slowly taking
    control of their majority.
    *How reservations fracture Hindu
    society*<http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/09rajeev.htm>
    Anti-Brahminism originated in, and still prospers in anti-Hindu circles. It is particularly welcome among Marxists, missionaries, Muslims, separatists and Christian-backed Dalit movements of different hues. When they attack Brahmins, their target is unmistakably Hinduism.
    So the question has to be asked: are the Brahmins (and other upper castes)of yesterday becoming the Dalits of today?
    *Francois Gautier* <http://ia.rediff.com/news/franc.htm>
     
  19. Archived_member7

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    This is the real thing i feel in the above article
    Anti-Brahminism originated in, and still prospers in anti-Hindu circles. It is particularly welcome among Marxists, missionaries, Muslims, separatists and Christian-backed Dalit movements of different hues. When they attack Brahmins, their target is unmistakably Hinduism.
     
  20. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Yes I agree with it That caste wars is mainly between low castes and dalits.Infact India is presently ruled by so called backward classes .For Example Yadav's are leaders of these backward caste movements But personally they beleive that they are descendents of Lord krishna Now how could Lord krishna's descendents are lower caste?
     
  21. pk70

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    Will you please provide data on this because I don't think India is being ruled by backward classes, its a sheer exaggeration ! Picture is different, who got power, they are getting more, the rest majority of them still suffer as they have been for centuries. In my village I witnessed a strong wall built by my people between them and the lower classes, treatment was horrible; surprisingly, all were(are) Sikhs. Literally they were reduced to nothing. So being "nothing" they would come to Gurdawara and sit out side, never dared to sit where others used to sit. Isnt it shameful ?
     

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