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Islam Hazrat Mian Mir Ji

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Nadeem, Mar 9, 2007.

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  1. Nadeem

    Nadeem
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    The great Qadiri Sufi Shaykh, Hazrat Mian Mir of Lahore, was no ordinary 'Mullah' but one of Islam's greatest Saints of the Indian Sub-Continent. His strong criticisms of the many faults of the Muslims of his day and, a contrario, the saintliness, wisdom and light of the Sikh Gurus is not widely known. Yet, despite laying the foundation stone of the Harminder Sahib, some Muslims argue, erroneously, against Sikh philosophy. Fundamentalist Muslims who falsely criticize Sikh philosophy are not, thereby, reflecting the attitude of the highest teachings of Islam but are, instead, formulating a rejection premised on a substantial lack of awareness. The love for the Guru is symptomatic of the love we owe to God, just as it is with the Pir or Shaykh in Islam, who is "God's shadow on earth". That has always been and shall always remain the classical teaching in Islam. Modern day fundamentalism does not merely reject other religions; it actively sins, ironically, against the very fundamental principles of Islam and its God-centred way of life. One of the great lessons taught by Hazrat Mian Mir Ji is that being perceived as a 'Muslim' is, in our world, simply not good enough if the Light is not reflected in the heart.


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  3. kaur-1

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    Guru Arjan was made to sit on the red hot iron pan and burning sand was poured over his bare body. He was seated in red-hot caldron, and was bathed in boiling water. Guru's body was burning and was full of blisters.
    His friend and devotee, Mian Mir, a Muslim saint, rushed to see him. When Mian Mir saw the ghastly scene, he cried out and said,"O Master! I cannot bear to see these horrors inflicted on thee. If you permit me, I would demolish this tyrant rule (Mian Mir is said to have possessed supernatural powers at that time)."
    The Guru smiled and asked Mian Mir to look towards the skies. It is said that Mian Mir saw Angels begging the Guru's permission to destroy the wicked and the proud.
    The Guru addressed Mian Mir,"Mian Mir, you are perturbed too soon. This is the Will of my Master (God), and I cheerfully submit and surrender to His Sweet Will." The Guru repeated and exemplified in action the meaning of this verse:
    • "Tera kia meetha lagei
      Har Nam padarath Nanak mangei."
      (Asa Mohalla 5, p-394)
      'Sweet be Thy Will, my Lord
      Nanak beseecheth the gift of Nam.'
      (Translation of the above)
      The Guru bore all this torture with equanimity and never uttered a sigh or a groan.
      The Guru was unruffled!
      The Guru remained calm and unperturbed like a sea!
      The Guru was in Absolute Bliss!
      This was the wonder of the Lord- an unparallel example
      in the history of mankind.
    Mian Mir asked, why was he enduring the suffering at the hands of his vile sinners when he possesseth superpowers? The Guru replied,"I bear all this torture to set an example to the Teachers of True Name, that they may not lose patience or rail at God in affliction. The true test of faith is the hour of misery. Without examples to guide them, ordinary persons' minds quail in the midst of suffering." Upon this Mian Mir departed commending the Guru's fortitude and singing his praises.
     
  4. dalsingh

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    Mian Mir was a Sufi Mystic. What he believed in would be considered blasphemous by orthodox muslims. I saw a documentary about his dera, and they were singing and dancing in sufi like fashion. I think it was great but recognise this is/was not standard orthodox Islam.
     
  5. Nadeem

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    Dalsingh Ji,

    Hazrat Mian Mir Ji was no ordinary Sufi Mystic - if it is possible to speak about these things in those terms. He was the Shaykh or 'Master' of the Qadiri branch of Sufis of his time, one of the most important and highly respected mystical branches of Islam. As you can appreciate, the implications are huge for Muslims and Sikhs who show awareness of the connection. Qadiri Sufism is actually one of the most orthodox or mainstream branches in Sufism, which makes it practically impossible for any Muslim of good standing to reject - unless he or she wishes to be a fundamentalist and heterodox. Sufism represents the essence of Islam whereas fundamentalism represents heterodoxy. That explains why Hazrat Mian Mir Ji felt particularly close to the Baba Nanak Ji's teachings and his efforts to unite Hindu and Muslim.
     
  6. dalsingh

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    What you're saying may be true but there is a LONG history of animalistic muslim cruelty and treachery that Sikhs today have to factor into their thinking. Current events in the U.K. and globally doesn't help much either. There are ideals and there is reality, it is best to live with both not just one.
     
  7. dalsingh

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    Just as long as we recognise that what you are referring to as "classical" Islam would be considered a blasphemous deviation by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide.
     
  8. Nadeem

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    Dear DalSingh -Ji,

    Thanks for the comment. I do not think that the majority of Muslims regard Sufis like Imam Ghazali or Hazrat Mian Mir Ji as "blasphemous" - the only Muslims who would think that are fundamentalists who obviously lack knowledge of Islam. It may be a good idea to read about the Sufis first. I recommend "What is Sufism?" by Martin Lings.

    Also, as there is no hostility towards Sikhs or Sikhism from the best of the Sufis, it would be wrong to make negative conclusions. Emperor Akbar and Prince Dara Shikoh, for example, loved people like Guru Arjun Dev Ji and supported them against the fundamentalists like Aurengzeb and Jahangir.
     
  9. dalsingh

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    I've always admired Sufism. I just see it as a distinctly separate entity from standard Islam. Sufism is open minded whilst the other is the opposite.

    Whereas Sufism accepts the role of music and dance in spirituality, the other considers it as haram.

    Whereas Sufism has a historically good track record of living alondside other faiths (at least in the Panjab) and contributing in a plural society, the other hasn't.

    Two completely different things to my mind.

    The works of Bulleh Shah, Waris Shah are loved by Sikhs as much, if not more, than by Muslims.

    Our Gurus even incorporated Sufi mystic poetry in our Guru Granth. How much more can Sikhs do to show respect? Contrast this with standard Muslim treatment of Sikhs past and present i.e. rape, pillage, forced conversion, public torture. Executions that didn't even spare babies and young children.

    The Islamic world needs more brave people from within to condemn this stuff!
     
  10. badmash

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    Well said. No one can say or think that being Muslim is equal to being bad, immoral or cruel. While Nadeem raises points I think are very valid and correct, I think they are in the stark minority of Islam. I am impressed by Nadeem's knowledge and willingness to discuss these issues openly on this forum. But I think we all know that the views put above are probably never going to see the light of day any time soon in your local Mosque or Islamic Center. If they do, well Shabash! And if they do, please inform us, the Sikh coummnity. We will be the most ardent supporters of mutual respect and knowledge. As pointed above, it is common knowledge to all Sikhs that Muslims played a vital role in the scripture/Gurbani of the sikhs and in many facets of the practical religion. What is missing is any reciprocity of respect and acceptance by the true power brokers of Islam. Let Osama Bin Laden, let the Saudi King, let the leaders of Shia Islam make a public statement on their desire to live in peace with all and accept all as brother, within or outside of Islam. Only then do you have the "real" deal.
     
  11. amar_jkp

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    foundation stone of harmandar sahib ?

    OUNDATION OF THE TEMPLE

    According to the earliest Sikh tradition, Guru Arjan laid himself the foundation stone of the Harimandir himself. A mason, so goes the story, accidentally displaced the brick (foundation stone). On seeing this, the Guru prophesied that the foundation would be laid again in the near future. This version of Bhai Santokh Singh is carried by almost all subsequent Sikh sources right up to the twentieth century. Giani Gian Singh has thought it fit to add to the Version the fact that the foundation of the temple was laid by Guru Arjan on Kartik' Sudi 5, 1645 BK (AD 1588). The renowned English Scho1ar, 'M.A. Macauliffe who sought help from Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha for collecting data for his book, The Sikh Religion, records that Guru Arjan laid the foundation of the Harimandir on 1st Magh. 1645 BK (AD 1589). The same date is to be found in the Mahankosh of Kahan Singh Nabha. Two modern Sikh historians, Teja Singh Ganda Singh, accept this version. The later Sikh tradition, however, persists in believing that the foundation of the Temple was laid by the Muslim Saint, Mir Mohammad (AD 1550-1635) popularly known as Hazrat MiA Mir of Lahore, on a request from Guru Arjan, the year being the same. The first recorded reference to this version is to be met in The Punjab Notes and Queries. It records that 'The foundation-stone of the Harimandir was laid by Mian Mir, between whom and Guru Ram Das there existed a strong friendship." The contributor of the entry, E. Nicholl, (Secretary, Municipal Committee, Amritsar) does not cite any authority; he merely states the fact. Likewise, he attributes the story relating to the mason's accidentally displacing the brick and the prophecy regarding the relaying of the foundation by Mian Mir. It is a pity that this fact is not supported by any of the earlier Sikh sources, nor by Persian chroniclers including biographers of Saint Mian Mir. This tradition, however, got a strong footing in the twentieth century Sikh literature and was adopted by both Indian and European scholars writing on the subject. Soon, this version gained currency. Even the Report issued by the Darbar Sahib Authority followed this version.

    (The 'Mian Mir' version was the fabrication of one writer, Buttey Shah, who was commissioned by the British, during 1850's to write 'Sikh History', and then most of the later writers followed suit. Being a Muslim, Buttey Shah wrote that the foundation stone was laid by Mian Mir - in order to glorify the Muslim Saint and inferior the status of the Sikh Gurus. There was no need for the Guru to ask Mian Mir to lay the foundation stone. Nothing was going to be achieved by this gesture. Abdali destroyed the temple thrice - if the foundation was actually laid by Mian Mir - would he dared do that? For a detailed description on the 'Foundation' read Bhai Kirpal Singh's 'Harmandir Sahib'. Bhai Sahib was the head granthi of the Golden Temple for over 26 years and he wrote this after a considerable research.

    In an article written by Major H.H.Cole in "Golden Temple at Amritsar, Punjab", he writes,".....It is stated in the official list of buildings of interest published by the Punjab Government in 1875 that the DESIGN of the temple repaired by Ranjit Singh was BORROWED from the shrine of the Muhammadan Saint MIAN MIR, near Lahore (1635 AD) (article in Wall paintings of Punjab & Haryana by K.S.Kang)

    It is quite a possibility that the later writers took the above as an indication to the foundation stone being laid by Mian Mir. (Kanwal) )

    frame
     
  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear nadeem

    could you please tell me how many islamic countries in this world are ruled
    by sufi muslims?
     
  13. badmash

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    I think Chechnya.
     
  14. Nadeem

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    Dear KDS,

    How many countries in this world are ruled by Guru Nanak's teachings? It does not follow that if a people do not accept spirituality that spirituality is false. Its a bit like saying that because pupils in a classroom do not wish to learn the alphabet it is thereby false. This is not a political question but a spiritual one. Sufism is a spiritual movement and has, throughout history, influenced and intervened at various moments just like Baba Nanak Ji's mysterious influence.

    Nadeem
     
  15. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear nadeem

    please take a look at your population and our population.your population is around 1.3 billion with over 50 countries which have muslim majority.our population is around 25 million with no country.

    do you want to say that sufi islam is separate relgion just like sikhism that's why no muslim majority country is ruled by sufi islam?
     

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