Guru Ram Singh Ji denied gurship??????

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by SPN Reporter, Jun 28, 2004.


  1. SPN Reporter

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    Aad Granth Sahib - (Page 339)

    Reading the above mentioned Sentence collected within The Aad Granth Sahib, one cannot help realizing that 'ninda' ('criticism') appears to be far more than just a habit possessed by mankind. It appears to be a disease, infront of which all the pathogens that we know of in the medical world are of no match.

    The disease of criticism has infected almost every being who has the ability to communicate. Many times it seems to be a curse rather than a disease that no one is able to escape, unless, ofcourse The Satguru's Holy Blessings are Showered upon that Person.

    One of the many criticisms in modern times about Sikhism is regarding Satguru Ram Singh Ji's Hukamnama in which He Praises His Sikhs and Humbly Calls Himself not a Guru.

    Though it is True that Sri Satguru Ji Mentioned in a Hukamnama that He's not a Guru, its meanings are not being interpreted correctly by the singh sabhas who try to use this as a point to deny the True Guruship.

    It is a shame indeed for the singh sabha writers who have not only mistranslated The Sacred Hukamnamas, but even added outrageous lies such as Satguru Ram Singh Ji refering to Aad Granth Sahib as 'Satguru' etc. These are pure fabrications and CANNOT be thought of as reliable. Authentic Hukamnamas of Satguru Ram Singh Ji have been compiled into a Granth and may be obtained from either The Namdhari Darbar, Sri Bhaini Sahib or Namdhari Sangat world-wide.

    In order to interpret Guruji's Words in the same way that the singh sabha leaders are trying to fool its devoutees, the following question must first be answered:

    Has there been ANY Satguru Who Calls Himself a Guru?

    The answer is, ofcourse, NONE.

    Sri Satguru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj Wrote:

    (Aad Granth Sahib - Page 378)

    What did Satguruji mean by that sentence and what was He trying to accomplish? The answer to this question may lie in the Bani of Sri Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj:


    (Aad Granth Sahib - Page 470)

    Regarding one's self to be lower than others appears to be a uniform fashion with which all the Satgurus have been teaching The Sikhs not to count themselves as higher beings. Sri Satguru Ram Singh Ji Maharaj also wrote in His Hukamnama Ordering His Sikhs to always hide their Good Deeds.

    The same method was also Preached by Sri Satguru Gobind Singh Ji who did not include His name in His GurBani - Chandi Di Vaar. But ended the counts of Satgurus at Sri Satguru Teghbahader Sahib Ji.

    Since there has never been an incident where any of the Gurus ever proclaimed themselves as Gurus it becomes clearly pointless for the singh sabha and its followers to continue with their meaningless criticism of an Akal Purakh Satguru as warned by the Holy Sikh Scriptures mentioned on the preceeding page.

    For More sources on this. go to www.namdhari.faithweb.com click on the section under fabrications.
     
  2. sukhi

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    who is this "Satguru Ram Singh Ji" that u speak of? the only Satguru i know of is Akal Purakh. what are you talking about?
     
  3. Arvind

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    Sri Ram Singh is of Namdhari faith, the sikh section following Guru Granth Sahib ji with present leader Sri Jagjit Singh ji at Bhaini Sahib near Ludhiana. Namdhari or Kuka struggle and martyrdoms are recorded in history. Let us try to know more, if we dont know much.
    Regards.
     
  4. Singhstah

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    Namdharis are WRONG

    Namdharis are wrong, the only guroo for the sikhs is SATGUROO MAHRAJ SRI GUROO GRANTH SAHIB JI, any one who dosent believe in satguroo Mahraj Sri Guroo Granth Sahib ji is not a sikh
     
  5. Arvind

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    Namdhari leader had issued a notice about his being not a Guru. I think, I saw a copy of that on internet too. Also, happened to visit Bhaini Sahib. Presently, Sri Jagjit Singh ji gives full respect to Guru Granth Sahib ji, and tells everyone to bow to Guru ji only, and not to him. Sri Jagjit Singh never said, he is a Guru, Did ever he? I guess, it is the people who follow him, and call him so with reverence.

    Thanks.
     
  6. etinder

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    even i wud like to know more abt namdhari's but as far as i know they are being called satguru
     
  7. Sikh Namdhari

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    Fellow Sikh Brothers

    I have refrained from contributing my humble opinions on this site for a good few months after members started to get abusive..
    Under such circumstances it begins to get difficult to retain ones composure and answer with objectivity.

    From the comments one reads on these forums it becomes clear that most, if not all, members are prejudiced against Namdhari Sikhs. There are so many lies written about Namdharis that one wonders at the capacity of hatred in people who profess themselves to be 'Sikhs' (seekers of God?).

    I will try to counter some of the myths being spread about Namdharis. It is up to the individual to do their own research to discover what is true and what isn't before launching into hate filled assaults.

    Firstly, let's get one fact straight:

    SIKHI and SIKHISM are distinctly different.

    Gurus and Sikhs existed long before the coming of Satguru Nanak Devji.
    Satguru Nanak Devji did not create a seperate religion (ism). His mission was to rid us of the impurities of our thoughts and to sit together as brothers before each other and before our Creator.

    He being the Enlightened Soul, Superior Being, was capable through His words and Deeds to deliver that message to those who were ready to recieve it, no matter what their previous religious convictions. Those who wanted to accept His message revered Him as their Guru. The message was not new; only it needed renewing. Like today, men were at each others throats, trying to impose their own doctrines on those whose were different to their own.
    If the weaker ones resisted they were put to the sword. Is that the hidden message I hear on these forums, I wonder?

    Satguru is a title given to God Personality. (SARGUN)

    Akal Purakh is NIRGUN.

    When NIRGUN chooses to become SARGUN: SATGUR walks this planet.

    Thus, according to the verses of Aad and Dasam Gurus' Granth Sahibs, the Formless (who is incomprehensible to mankind) takes the form of Man.

    How we interpret the Holy scriptures seems to me to be dependant on which denomination we belong to! Most of the subscribers to these websites belong to the section of Sikhs who would rather wash over the Shabads that describe God thus. Nearly all would not even read the Dasam Granth wherein Satguru Gobind Singhji narrates the deeds of the various Avtaars of Akaal Purakh. Modern day 'Sikhism' has evolved to encompass western thought and doctrine which is repulsed by the very idea of one individual having supernatural powers, unless, of course, he/she happens to be a Superhero from Marvel.

    I have yet to understand where in the vastness of Sikh history the first 10 Satgurus ordained their followers to stop regarding Them as Satguru and follow the 'Shabad Guru'. Everyone who wants to tell me about 'Shabad Guru' points to the famous verse in Sidh Gost:
    'Shabad Guru, Surat Dhun Chela..'.

    I ask you this: IF GURU NANAKDEVJI'S OBJECTIVE WAS TO ENJOIN HIS FOLLOWERS TO 'SHABAD GURU' WHY OH WHY DID HE START THE LINEAGE OF HUMAN GURUS? Quotes only from the Gurbani, please. WHY DO THE BHATS STATE CATEGORICALLY WITHIN THE GURBANI THAT IT IS THIS LINEAGE OF HUMAN GURUS, AS ORDAINED BY ".. AADH PURAKH.." THAT WILL SEE OUT THIS AGE OF KALYUG?

    NAMDHARI SIKHS, AS COMMANDED BY THEIR SATGURU BELIEVE IN HIM AS DESCRIBED BY ALL THE VERSES IN AADH AND DASAM GURUJIS' GRANTH SAHIBS.

    THERE ARE NO WRITTEN COMMANDS BY ANY OF OUR GURUS ANYWHERE WHERE THEY COMMAND THEIR SIKHS TO ABSTAIN FROM FOLLOWING A HUMAN GURU OR THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DISCONTINUE THE LINEAGE OF HUMAN GURUS.

    NAMDHARIS DO NOT BELIEVE ANY WRITINGS BY ORDINARY HUMANS AS GURUS' COMMAND. THEY ONLY BELIEVE IN THE WRITINGS OF OUR TRUE GURUS STARTING FROM SATGURU NANAK DEVJI.

    All of the evidence presented to verify that Guru Gobind Singhji eliminated the lineage of Human Gurus is written by ordinary men.

    The Holy Granths say different. Guru Gobind Singhji in any of His own writings does not propogate the idea of Panth guru or Granth Guru. Hence why champions of this idea would not want you to read His writings in the Dasam Granth.

    In His opening verse of Chaubis Avtaar He writes:

    '...Jab, Jab hott arist apaara, tab, tab Dhe dharat Avtaara...'

    This is Guru Gobind Singhji's teaching of God's doctrine. Modern champions of the same Guruji would tell us that God does not take Avtaars!

    They will mistakenly repeat Gurujis earlier verses in which He extols the virtues of the Nirgun form of God. So what do our champs do? They ignore the Sargun teachings and adopt the Nirgun. Question their motives for doing so.

    Nirgun is unobtainable; Sargun is required for Humans to become one with Nirgun. That is why in the Mool Manthr, after singing the euologies of Nirgun, Satgur Nanak Deviji ends with ..'Gur Parsad'. Such a God is attained through the Grace of His own manifestation as Guru. A Guru is proactive. A Guru will correct a misdeed. A Guru will hold your hand when you are unstable. Not, hypothetically by us concoting an idea or image in our minds, but in real time and life as a living, breathing entity.

    Such is the Guru whose attributes are sung within the Gurbani.

    So now I ask you:

    How is this belief harmful to Sikhi? How are the adherants to this belief not Sikhs?

    Guru Ram Singhji did by preaching and deed what no man can do and everything that Gurus had done before Him. How could those who came into contact with Him not call Him Guru? How can we, who have recieved the love and grace of Guru Jagjit Singhji not call Him Guru? Any more than those who came into Guru Nanakdevji's fold were compelled through His love to call Him their Master! Guru Ram Singhji taught nothing new, He merely, like Guru Nanakdevji, renewed a truth about love and freedom that mankind had forgotten.

    All of you on these sites who profess to be followers of that wonderous Gurudom of Guru Nanakdevji: give up your bigotries, give up Sikhism and embrase SIKHI. Set yourselves on a path of learning rather than teaching, for we are the students, the SIKHS of our great Master: The SATGURU.

    Sat Sri Akaal
     
  8. sarbjitpunjabi

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    ssakall
    that is a good and approach by a non - namdhari which should be welcomed by all gurusikhs .
    for any sikh , who is an ardent follower of akalli school of thought the first and foremost approach should be to try to grasp the gurubani ` message by reciting it like bhai jarnail singh of damdami taksal and understanding like namdharis and numerous others gurupyaras .
    i am sure that instead of criticising the kukas and following already stated opinions , one should see for oneself that whether it is really worth to defame namdhari school of thought ? or going through gurubani , it is easy to come to conclusions that namdharis came to , about guru gobind singh ji`s disappearance and sat guru ram singh ji`s appearances on spritual , social horizons and have firm faith in them ?
    OR COULD ANYONE GO THROUGH SAU SAKHI PART 1 , PART 2 WRITTEN BY PARTAP SINGH MAHITA - TO NAME A FEW REFFERNCES FROM AKALI SOURCE AND SEE FOR ONESELF WHAT NAMDHARI SCHOOL OF THOUGHT BEEN BASED UPON FOR EVER ?
    SARBJIT SINGH
     
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