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Guru Nanak visit to Mecca

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by CaramelChocolate, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. CaramelChocolate

    CaramelChocolate
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    Interesting point of view... But we have to remember that Guru Nanak Dev Ji's teachings were both acceptable to Muslims and Hindus, which may explain why he was let in to Mecca. Muslims at the time did consider him a Muslim, his wife was Muslim, remember... Since a Muslim women can only marry a Muslim man, I guess he was Muslim to them, and to Hindus he was Hindu.

    There are SOME Muslims that will try to pass off Sikhism as a sect of Islam!!

    ~CaramelChocolate~
    The little philosopher
     
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  3. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Dear Loin King
    Can you give me source reference of these things so that i can have look

    "He wore that Chola (a robe), all his life till his death and that Chola is still preserved in Daira Baba Nanak.

    He use to pray 5 times a day. (?Five times he prays, he read the book of Quran ?p37?)

    He recites Quran which he use to carry in his pothi (a satchel)

    There is also a tradition in Janam Sakti that he preformed pilgrimage to Mecca.

    His first Murshid (spiritual teacher) was a Muslim. (Sheikh Faridra)


    His cloak inscribed with Quranic verses is a true witness.

    His own words speaks of himself ?I am thankful to God of Glorious Throne that I am a Momin?
     
  4. The lion king

    The lion king
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    hey!

    Heres the site...

    http://www.punjabilok.com/faith/guru_nanak/gurnan_islamicchola.htm

    Im sure you been on it, as it is a popular site. I have been doing some more research and althuogh I have found the answer to my quast there are still some remind unanswered. for instance, on the chola, it achknowledges Holy Prophet Muhammad as being the last prophet..where does that put sikhism?

    "In the name of God, the most Merciful, the most Compassionate." Then followed the reputed formula of the Muslim, "Nothing deserves to be worshipped besides God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God.'

    ok i havent got time to finish what i said, i will be back with more questions and queries :) but do respond peeps!

    Thank you

    P.S. Sorry for the late reply!
     
  5. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Bilmillah al Rahman Al Raheem
    (in the name of the God who is Kind and mercyfull)
    As Das lacks the time so if any spelling mistake occers Adimm kindly rectify it.

    Das recently visit ed the site as told by lion king. Perhaps the writer gave names to Second Nanak as Angrad it is wrong not the fifth Nanank Was Arjun Das. And it is dera Baba Nanak.

    So Das think the reason Khtme Nabuvat prosecute Ahmadis or Kadiyanis in Pakistan is the punishment inflicting them by Allah the God of Guru Nanak Dev.
    Infact when Ahmadis say that thier foounder is Imama Mahadi then they are uttering anti Sikh to as as per Dasham Granth Mihdi mir is yet to com e. But Ahmadi will not be there to see it due to there unintiontional wrong saying for Gurudev Patshahi first.

    They still have the time to say sorry and do tauba.Das nows that there are 72 interpetations of Islam.Some sunnis and Shias too consider us thier sect.
    Finesness of our faith is that at the same time we are Hindu,Muslims,Christians as well as Budhist. If evil is removed,which has crept in them,they will be purely left with Khalsa.Thats why any spritual minded person from theses creeds becomes a Sikh.

    Gurudevs were sent to make a fool prooof arrangement to protect the faithfull of God. and remove the evils due to misinterpetations due to evil/satan/kali etc.

    So coming back to Islam.As per preachers of Islam in Delhi 'Madhur Milan Sangam' a few defination as folow.

    Allah=Al Ilah=Al(the) Ilah(God)
    Islam=Surrender or peace or welfare
    Muslim=who sureenders to the will of God or who works as per Gods saying.(followwer of Islam)
    Iman=Faith in God
    Momin=follower of Iman or faithfull .

    Even Tenth Master,In Jaffernamaah term Prophet Rasol Akram sall al he Salle wa wasallam as Rasool or Prophet.And there only Kuran is termed as the words of God.

    Fact is we are the 73rd sect of Islam.As per prophecy which will be coming true soon only one 'muslims' with black turban will survive rest will die in a Great battle(Source from Sunni sects). So we are that one.

    As far as sunnis by some means the mud containing the blood of holy man Mansur(a person with divine knowledge,killed ar heretic for is saying an(i) al(the)Haq (truth)) reached Punjab and mother of Gurudev liked it during pregenency and so Godman Nanak ,a born Muslim was born.

    Das recomended them,That in Sirhind,Punjab,We have graves of Paigambers or prophets. They should dug them and let each pregenent Lady lik them so that so many childern with the attribute of Paigamber be born,Islam needs them at present.

    If you visit Sahaligram.net, asite of hindus like Ahmadias who are the follwer of Dr Oak.They too fabricated a Sakhi by Dr Kulwant singh(there is no persent but to attract foreigner for hinduism this name is similar to Khushwant Singh ,a noted schoolar,This is called psychological misguiding). so as per that Sakhi when the keepers asked Gurudev He said that he is a Hindu.Further lies are Gurudev said that actual name of Prophet Muhamud(PBUH) was mahadweev and he was a Brahmin,Holy Kuran is Atharva vedas derivation.Qabba is shiv ling etc. etc..

    Das feel ashamed that so far we are not able to convince the world that when Gurudev came back from the court of God(river Vein episoide) He said no one is Hindu and No one is Muslims. And told that God is free from religion and with all human.He made qazis and nawab who were forcing him to offer Naamaz that there mind was towards Allah but calf or horse and such Nanamz is useless.

    When ever wevil people from Hindu or Muslims try to bind us or our Guru as onlt theres then Das feels pain as not only our Gurus but thier Avtars or paigambers are also for whole world and not for them only.so does our Faith is for mankind.

    For us our Guru is not human flesh as Muslims or Christian think.Staus Prphet or Jesus is given to Gurubani.(See Sidhgost,Word or verbal amnifestation of Allah or Akal or Ram or Yehova called Kun/hu,Oankar,Om or Omega respectively was the Guru of Guru Nanak DevJi and present day Khalsa who is form of Tenth Nanak.

    self accalimed 'Muslims' are ummat(creed) of Rasool but true Muslims Sikhs are themselves the form of Guru.So our Guru is GueruGRanth Sahib Ji.






    my question is regarding Guru Nanak visit to mecca and the the 'chola'.



    So you have agrred that muslims by that time were so narrow minded that did not allow non beliver to a place which they tooo have snaTCHED FROM PAGAN aRABS. But remeber brother Guru Dev Ji were of the might that due to his spritual might he subdued fantics and retualists.When he enterd JaganNath puri ,which is only for hindus,(our Arti was written there) does it make him hindu.


    Druze(hindu of Arabs) or sipleeds(Sikhs of Arab mostly in Iraq) are ther due to the power of ther God Akal and not the mercy of majority there.

    In Perhaps Asa di Var(intiaally it was wriitten in a sammall book or pothi ,which muslim sooory anti muslim ahmadis say as the copy of holy Kuran.

    He (Gurudev) use to get messages from God(Ihlam) which we call Dhur Ki Bani(Voice from source), Later that Pothis was transferdd to Fifth Nanak and made part of Adi Guru Darbar.

    Perhaps Guru Nanak Dev Ji were the only one of five initial gurus who had been to east UP and Bihar and took Bani of Kabir Bhagat too.(we still have mohan Pothis as that pothi was called)

    so as per Asa Di Var,The Decayed body of Muslim also one Day goes in the pot of the potter and gets baked while burning.

    Halal is termed as Abhkhya(wrong tongue as per Brahmins) Ka Kutta Mass,where Ka is of and Kuttha means killed with mercylessness and meat stand s for mass.

    As per Bhai Gurdas Var 1,Gurudev did gave a sort of Azan(or call to bring people near for Gods worship) but this Azan was of Sat Kartar(Creater is true).As we have Arti differnt from hindus so our Azan is seperate.

    Lastly We belive in Lakhs(0.1 millons) of Heavan and neither worlds.A qazi obejected the same as per Islam they are 7 each.Logically Islam is silent about below seventh or above Seventh but this does not means there could not be above.so Gurudev took qazis son to those places.Not only this as a proof Karrah Prasad is also brought from there(it has some symbolism of science BY what is meant by mixing butter oil,suger,wheat flour and water das will discuuss it later)
    < So this has
    Basically you have to profess to be a muslim in order to enter the holy presincts of Mecca so I just wanna know why Guru Nanak went to Mecca and whether he ever professed to being a muslim, and why he wore a cloak that had verse from the Quran?>


    In the site you just mentioned above someone wrote that it was gifted to him by king of Baghdad. Maybe some other Muslim might have given him as mark of respect.as he was holy so he was given Cloath marked with holy verses of holy book.

    In Talwandi Sabboo Ki,Takhat Damadama Sahib,In the house of Bhai Dhal Singh Ji,swaord of Tenth master is kept inscribed on it is perhaps Allah,Which his muslim folloer could have given him.Das's(Bande in farsi or Banda in Urdu means humble servent or writer) mother is hindu,she says that Guru Pitah might have taken it from a defeated muslim enemy,This ahs a logic.

    But anyway this does not make him muslim if his sword has the Allah writebn on it. Fact is Guru Nanak Dev Ji converted a Sayyad of Ghadhawal Sahib near RaWAL pINDI, into Sikh religion. His presnt Generation has great Sikh Punjab/Sher Singh Kashmir(das is forgetting the proper name).Likewise Bhai Mardana,A scanveger caste muslim was first Sikh ordered to keep uncut hairs. (Like the present generations of Bhai Dharam Singh,The Second piara,Who are now hindus,may be present generation of Bhai Mardana is not the Sikh).Guru Govind Singh Ji too converted Pir Vahimi of Malwa,Punjab from Islam to Khalsa Ajmer Singh.





    Chola issue das think is OK by now but one thing could be done that weather it is of that time and verses wriiten on it are of that time,We can do Carbon Dating of it or perhaps if it is inorganic we can do nuclear dating.




    He use to tell the true meaning of Kuran from Pothi which was having recorded Ihlam which we call Gurbani.

    .


    Sikhism simncwe Guru Nanak Dev Ji forbids pilgrimage.The reason of his going was to preachn the word of God to the humanity .This is the pilgrimage in real sense.A Sakhi says that we gave water instead of sun(carreir of Water as per hinduism to dead elders if given from Hari ki Pauri Hridwar called Mayapur in acient text located in Uttranchal satae of India) in opposite direction asking can this water goes to his field relatively nearer then sun or world of dead.

    In Mecca as per Sakhi he slept with his feets towards Qabbba,when objected,he told that move his feet where home of God(existance of God) is not there. Legend say that Qabba or black stone moved as per the direction ofhis feet.As per Islam too Mecca moved at another instance also when a pligrim did good to an animal, due to that that person became incapabel to come to Mecca So Allah made Mecca move towrds that person.

    This is the validity of Mecca as per ture Islam. It is not place but Allah(The God) that matters.



    At his time Shiek Brahm was on the seat of Pak Patan or the monestry of Shiek Farid.

    Das knows a legend,When the Farid of that time(person on the seat of Baba Farid) was with Guru Nanak Dev JI,Guru wanted the fire for cooking.That time match stick were not there. Farid went to a house of {censored word, do not repeat.} to get fire.she told good looking young man,to sleep with her. Being a true muslim he refused an adulatary,Then she asked for an Anna(in Punjabi anna means two things eye as well as Rs .0.625),When he wanted to give mony she said his eye is needed. He gave it for Guru. He came back with fire and a hand on his eye,recently removed.



    Guru Asked what happened to your eye,He said ,'Sati guru Akh Ayi e(I have an eye flew).Guru Said ,'Khol de swai e'.(open your eye it is bigger then other).

    Till this day enseated(Gaddi Nasheen) generation of Farid due to that has one eye bigger then other.Go and verify from Pak Pattan.

    So who was murshid?

    anywauy das got this story from Brother Amritpal Singh Amrit ji site have a look.Das could not read it at present and will do it some other day.
    </H3>





    Have any one of us seen Gurudev,Many painters from RSS made picture of him like hindu.Like Islam ,Sikhism opposes relying on pictures. Middle eastern atire was common for house holder of middle age Punjab,Gurudev were a house holder and not a hermit or renouncer so his attire too was like commonn man.



    Nihungs wear the blue colour of Shias but they are not shia but many of ther forefathers were converts from shia Nihungs to Sikh Nihungs due to procecutions of shias by sunni Aurangzeb.Tenth Master also looks like a King of that era.Surajmal Jat or Jai Singh Rajputs too {censored word, do not repeat.} the middle eastern attire were they Muslims or idolators hindus or present Day Sikhs are mistaken for the follower of Bin Laden this is rather converse.



    Swrod of Tenth master with Allah says the same story that it was a gift from a Muslim.
    <His own words speaks of himself ?I am thankful to God of Glorious Throne that I am a Momin?>


    So momin as per Arebic is meant for Faithfull,Muslim is one who goes per the will of God is Muslim,As whole universe,Star,Moon or sun are under will of God all are Muslim.In holy Kuran it is said,Oh belivers! Fear not the infidal,Had Allah wanted them,they too would have been Muslim(They are by will of Allah they are not muslim).


    So the facvt is as infidal are not muslim of religion by will of God yet in general term as they too are made to exist and act by will of God they are Muslim and whole word which moves by will of God as well as all those who live in are Muslims.A Sikh who say all acts are not his/her but God is a better muslim then say Bin Laden or Ahmadiya.






    Gurudev too made a few prophecies in Arbia,Which we have got from Arebian Sikhs called Sipleeds,They know Holy Kuran better then Majority community so are respected a lot there.

    They were told to king Karroon and Qazi Riqqandeen.
    What he said to qazi is called Karni Nammah,Das had read it.
    Raj Karega Khalsa Aqi Rahee Na Koi
    Kwar Hoi Sab Milenge Bache Saran Jo Hoye

    are the last word of Karni Nammah and daily said in GuruDwaras and are taken from Karni Nammah only.Other importent thing in this context are as follow(similar was said to King Karron Too).

    ....In the tenth Form of Guru Gobind Singh,
    I will make the Khalsa...
    We will win ...MecCA ..Medina....
    all dhram Shalas(Gurudwars) will be existing and Kuran and Mosque will be hidden(destroyed)....

    Das hopes this way Gurudev was a Muslim.

    Before Das end something about Gurudevs family.

    Ahmadis made a hoax that Gurudev was married with a Muslim Lady.

    His Father in Law was Mool Chand,
    His wife Was Sulakhani(Salng of Sanskrit Sulakshni/mi)
    And Head prinst of In laws was Pandit Shyam(Gurudev gave him divine knowledge).

    Das wants from Ahmadis another muslim Family with such names or Pandit Shayam.In Fact in Punjab of India,There is a Gurudwara Kandh Sahib located in the village where Barat(Groom proseession was gone) and village and perhaps old home is still there.Hindu Khatri were the ancestors of The wife of Guru.

    Well a Muslim will give name to his son Shri Chand(Moon of wealth) and Lakhmi Chand(moon of wealth).In fact both Sri and Lakhshmi are the name of hindu godess of wealth.But here may be as mother's name is Sulkhani so her moon like childeren are given name.

    'Muslim' Son Sri chand Started Udasi sects often mistaken as hindus. Crazy.

    Lastly Lehna JI was made the next Guru and after givening Guruship Shri Nanak(not Guru by then) did a sizda to Shri Guru Angad Dev Ji(who was Lehana JI).
    Does Muslim do Sizda,Bowing head touching grouid with beeing on knees toany thing else but Qabba or they ask for Qibla(direction of it).We do it to our Guru Granth Ji at present calleing it as matha Tekna.

    And why only Sanskrit name to Lehana Ji,Anggad or Ang Gat or like part(of self).
    Why not tori e hissa/vasail or Jeore hisssa its farsi translation.Das knows Farsi well but Arebic is yet to learn throughly as it is language of Islam but at that time Farsi too was used by most muslims.

    In Arebic may be muen ul Haq, or Truth of me(kept within) could be somewhere near Angad but das does not know Arebic well.

    Lasly Sikhism is not the ummat(creed) of Guru Nanak Dev Ji but Creed of Allah or La Fani(Akal). Akal made us to unite Islam and other creed in to one Khalsa fold.

    Forgive Das if anyone gets hurts.
     
  6. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Dear vijaydeep Singh ji
    Thanks alot for the much awaited response from you and I am very happy to read all this .may Akal Purakh give you more grace and knowledge to share with us all
     
  7. CaramelChocolate

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    Yeah right...
     
  8. drkhalsa

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    Dear Lion King
    I found the following information on the same link you mentioned in case you may have missed it

    Rejoinder

    I visited your web site by chance. It was a pleasure to browse through your web site. Keep up the good work.
    One correction, you mention the reason for Guru Nanak being muslim as the chola had quranic verses on it. This is inaccurate. This chola was presented to Guru Nanak by the Caliph of Baghdad when the guru visited the city. The Janamsakhi details the event when this robe of honour was bestowed upon the guru. Please correct this as your evrsion is a distortion of history and grossly misleading.

    arvsingh@khalsa.com
     
  9. vijaydeep Singh

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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Das wanted to add a few more but will only be addind a few today rest willlfollow soon.

    Regarding 5 Namaz,What Gurudev have said.sloku mÚ 1 ] (140-18)
    salok mehlaa 1.
    Shalok, First Mehl:

    imhr msIiq isdku muslw hku hlwlu kurwxu ] (140-18, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    mihar maseet sidak muslaa hak halaal kuraan.
    Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.

    srm suMniq sIlu rojw hohu muslmwxu ] (140-18, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    saram sunat seel rojaa hohu musalmaan.
    Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.

    krxI kwbw scu pIru klmw krm invwj ] (140-19, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    karnee kaabaa sach peer kalmaa karam nivaaj.
    Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.

    qsbI sw iqsu BwvsI nwnk rKY lwj ]1] (140-19, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    tasbee saa tis bhaavsee naanak rakhai laaj. ||1||
    Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1||
    (page 140 SGGS)

    mÚ 1 ] (141-3)
    mehlaa 1.
    First Mehl:

    pMij invwjw vKq pMij pMjw pMjy nwau ] (141-3, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    panj nivaajaa vakhat panj panjaa panjay naa-o.
    There are five prayers and five times of day for prayer; the five have five names.

    pihlw scu hlwl duie qIjw KYr Kudwie ] (141-4, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    pahilaa sach halaal du-ay teejaa khair khudaa-ay.
    Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God.

    cauQI nIAiq rwis mnu pMjvI isPiq snwie ] (141-4, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    cha-uthee nee-at raas man panjvee sifat sanaa-ay.
    Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord.

    krxI klmw AwiK kY qw muslmwxu sdwie ] (141-5, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    karnee kalmaa aakh kai taa musalmaan sadaa-ay.
    Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a Muslim.

    nwnk jyqy kUiVAwr kUVY kUVI pwie ]3] (141-5, mwJ, mÚ 1)
    naanak jaytay koorhi-aar koorhai koorhee paa-ay. ||3||
    O Nanak, the false obtain falsehood, and only falsehood. ||3||

    (page 141 SGGS)
     
  10. CaramelChocolate

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    You cannot use those quotes to say Sikhism is a sect of Islam as it goes on to tell Hindus to be good Hindus... So you cannot use that quote to say Sikhism is a sec of Islam unless you are claiming that Sikhism is a sect of both Hinduism and Sikhism!!!

    ~CaramelChocolate~
    The little philosopher
     
  11. Admin Singh

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    ** Admin Note: The thread is restored. **
     

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