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Gurus Guru Nanak in Uganda, Africa

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Admin Singh, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    According to recent research, a new discovery now suggests that Guru Nanak Dev Ji may have travelled as far to the west as East Africa . A small settlement, a hundred miles from Kampala , Uganda , is named ‘Bamu Nanika’ which the locals revere for its spiritual powers. They say that a holy man, not one of their own, sat on a certain spot there and meditated. They say that the spot is covered in a bark-like material and not shown to anyone. Prayers are done in their traditional way. It is also said that all of Uganda ’s Kabakas (traditional kings) visited the ’shrine’ to receive blessings upon their advent of rule.

    The area is arid with no fresh water for miles. But only a few hundred meters away is a small spring of fresh water which the locals do not allow anyone to drink or use for hand washing. The water is somehow used like ‘giving amrit’ to devotees who are all africans. When asked about who they revere the place for, the locals said that, "He is not one of ours but there is some great spiritual power here".

    Recently, a number of Gianis from India visited the shrine to research the discovery (it is even believed that, in a sakhi, Bhai Mardana asked Guru Nanak why the locals had curly hair). That faintly suggests that Guru Nanak visited Africa . The locals had no knowledge of Sikhs before our arrival. We are strangers to them. With further research, we feel there is a high possibility of adding Africa to the list of places visited by Guru Nanak.

    At a distance of about 12 miles from the Tapora Station, there is a memorial in honour of the visit of Guru Nanak in the hilly forests and about 24 miles from Kampala , there is a village named Bab Nanika. It is here that their history says that the Holy man's, not of their own, blessings brought forth a spring; they report there had been no water source in the vast area."
     

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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: Guru Nanak in Uganda

    Our Member Rajinder Singh Arshi is from that area..maybe he can shed some light on this..we may have other "African" members too...would love to hear from them as well...
     
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  4. Randip Singh

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    Re: Guru Nanak in Uganda

    I think this has been made up by the Guru Nanak Niskam Sewak Jatha crew. I doubt very much Guru Nanak went to Uganda.
     
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  5. Tejwant Singh

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    Randip Ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Can you or anyone else shed some light and share some insights about this Jatha? I remember seeing them on TV during the funeral of Pope John Paul II. Is this Jatha, cult from the UK and what is their snake oil sales pitch?

    Thanks

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  6. Archived_Member16

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  7. Tejwant Singh

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    Soul_ jyot ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for the site. I read that some time ago but it does not say much about the people and their operations. I wanted to know details which are not available on the net.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  8. arshi

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    I am sure Guru Nanak Niskam Sewak Jatha is not behind this story. Although I am not a member of GNNSJ I do know many, including several members who many moons ago regarded me as a role model in a minor way, who are regular visitors to the Soho Road Gurdwara in Birmingham. They are vastly ahead of me spiritually. I phoned my wife’s brother (an OBE) today who joined them on a recent trip to the Makindu Gurdwara in Kenya (I noted SPN ran a thread on it) whether there was talk of such a place in Uganda on his trip. This was also news to him. I have heard it mentioned that Guru Nanak may have ventured as far as <st1:country-region w:st="on">Sudan</st1:country-region> on the African sub-continent but never beyond that point towards East Africa

    Notwithstanding the above I am no position to discount the possibility as Guru Nanak was a Spiritual Guide Extraordinaire – sarab kala sampooran.
    Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’
     
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    #7 arshi, Mar 20, 2010
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  9. Astroboy

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    What about the sakhi about riding on the whale. He might have gone by Soul Travel.
    Beam me up - Star Trek style.:woohoo:
     
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  10. kuldeepsb5

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    Fine,appreciable.
    "Sa Dharte bhaee hariyawali, jitthhe mera Sateguru betthha aaye."
     
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  11. Randip Singh

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    Well their leader was originally a boozer (Puran Singh Dhanjal). Apprently when he drank he would always eat meat.

    Apparently one day, he had a spiritual moment (probably about the time when livers normally pack up), and he gave up booze. He associated meat with booze too.

    After that he set up an almost Bramanical version of Sikhism. Due to the influence of Namdhari's, they began to wear white. They also associated that with purity, and abandoned the Blue and Orange associated with teh Jhatka eating Khalsa.

    This sect gathered more and more power and influence in Kenya. They started to make claims that where their leader (PS Dhanjal) had seen "the light", Gur Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh had been there.

    These guys now have millions of pounds worth of assets, all controlled by their Sant. They have abandoned the democratic principles of the Khalsa, in favour of an autocracy. They are very discriminatory toward Sehajdhari Sikhs.
     
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  12. harbansj24

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    Similarly at Bidar (Karnataka), the locals revere the memory of Guru Nanak as they feel that, because of his visit, the area became an oasis in a totally arid area, because the water in the wells of the area was saline.
    Legend has it that when Guruji visited the area, the locals pleaded with him to do something to rid them of their suffering. Guruji then pointed an area at the foot of the hill and requested them to dig at the spot. When that was done, non saline, pleasant and potable water flowed. We have Gurudwara at this place known as "Nanak Jheera" having a foot mark in stone.
    I feel that Guruji had a very high level of acutely scientifically aware mind and by visual examination of the geology of the area, he might have found that while vast stretches of the area were having saline mineral composition, this particular area was minerally neutral. Hence the phenomenon.
     
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  13. arshi

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    sant kaa nindak mahaa attaa-ee.
    sant kaa nindak khin tikan na paa-ee.
    sant kaa nindak mahaa hati-aaraa.
    sant kaa nindak parmaysur maaraa.
    sant kaa nindak raaj tay heen.
    sant kaa nindak dukhee-aa ar deen.
    sant kay nindak ka-o sarab rog.
    sant kay nindak ka-o sadaa bijog.
    sant kee nindaa dokh meh dokh.
    <I>naanak sant bhaavai taa us kaa bhee ho-ay mokh. ||3|| (SGGS 280)<?"urn:<img src=" /></I>


    The slanderer of the Saint is the evil-doer of utmost extreme. The slanderer of the Saint is always restless. The slanderer of the Saint is the most brutal murderer (butcher). The slanderer of the Saint is forsaken by the Lord. The slanderer of the Saint has no sanctuary (no kingdom). The slanderer of the Saint becomes miserable and pathetic. The slanderer of the Saint is inflicted by every disease. The slanderer of the Saint is forever isolated and shunned. To slander a Saint is the worst sin of sins. O Nanak, if it pleases the Saint, then even such (a wretch) may be liberated. ||3|| (SGGS 280)
     
    #12 arshi, Mar 22, 2010
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  14. Tejwant Singh

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    Arshi ji,

    Guru fateh.

    First of all Sant and Saint are two totally different things/entities. So the literal translation that you have posted is very misleading which could be insulting to what Guru Sahib is trying to convey as it distorts the message of our Guru.

    Can you please express the above in your own words so we can understand it better?

    Secondly, can you please shed some light how your post is related to this thread?

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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    #13 Tejwant Singh, Mar 22, 2010
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  15. arshi

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    Tejwant Singh ji

    Gurfateh

    Please follow the thread and you will see its relevance. Please do post your version of the translation as my translation ,in this instance, is based largely on Sant Singh ji's version which I agree is not always the most acceptable. I have used the word saint here for the want of a better equivalent - may be there is no satisfactory one word substitute - perhaps a more astute person such as you can enlighten.
     
  16. arshi

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    Tejwant Singh ji

    Gurfateh

    Perhaps we may define 'sant' as a spiritually enlightened person who has attained a degree of sehaj. As I observed above there is no single satifactory equivalent word that I can think of - if you think of one please do share.
     
  17. Tejwant Singh

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    Arshi ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    As requested in one of my earlier posts, please allow to give the benefit of the doubt. I am following the thread. You must have noticed that I have asked several questions in the thread but I still fail to understand how your post is related to the thread. Had I understood, I would not have had any reasons to ask you about it. So, please enlighten me about it.

    Secondly, as mentioned above, literal translations distort our Guru's message and Sant Singh's literal translations are the worst kind. Literal translations are not prose. So I request you to share the message of the Shabad you receive in a personal manner.

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  18. Tejwant Singh

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    Arshi ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    If a Sant is a spiritually enlightened person and has attained a degree of Sehaj as you have mentioned so eloquently, then isn't he/she above any nindiya/slander? Meaning that no bad vibes can affect him/her?

    In other words, this person becomes stain free because no one can stain him/her no matter how much anyone tries.

    So, could it be that Guru Sahib means something else here than what is being suggested by the literal translation?

    This is the reason I like this forum where one can learn from scholars like yourself and others by interacting.

    Would love your input regarding the Shabad.

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  19. arshi

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    Secondly, as mentioned above, literal translations distort our Guru's message and Sant Singh's literal translations are the worst kind.


    Tejwant Singh ji


    Agreed. I have myself observed on several occasions that they are not always adequate but they are widely used and sometimes help convey the basic message to lay persons which may not be entirely satisfactory to intellectuals like yourself. However, we must give Sant Singh ji some credit for the great effort he has put into the works and is of immense help to beginners. However, when I do find the time to translate in my own words I will certainly share it with you. Meanwhile, if you have done the interpretaion I will be privileged to share it. Perhaps we are digressing from the thread and to the effect I have sent you a PM.
     
  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    IN Gurbani and in Gurmatt...it is amply clear that the "SANT" is a word interchangeable with GURU/SAADH/SATGURU....and is mostly meant for either the Ten Gurus or The Creator Waheguru. Guru Arjun ji uses the word SANT and GURU in reference to Guru Ramdass Ji.."BHAAG HOA GUR-SANT milayah...this one TUK alone should give us the most clear signal as to what a SANT has to be...the EQUAL of GURU RAMDASS JI !! Why does Guru Ji use the TWO words as ONE...to dispell doubts later becasue these words are used in Gurbani frequently.
    2. Second Marker/Warning sign for us to stop indiscrimiante use of these words for ORDINARY MORTALS..are the Tuks about...."Rahio SANT me toll..SAADH BAHUTEREH DITTHHEY !! By Bhagat Kabir Ji...and the Absolutley high standards set for "SANT" as is described in Gurbani at many places. NO "MORTAL" can pass this TEST...and by chance IF there is ONE in a MILLION as Bhagat Kabir Ji ahs already told us..then that "sant" will be a HIDDEN ONE..and not parading around the world in Jathas and Limousines with large groups fo dholki cheenehs banging and people matha teking to him and giving gifts. SUCH can ONLY be FRAUDS..the SSADHS that..Bhauhtereh ditthey !! A highly illuminated soul such as Bhagat Kabir Ji the Shiromani SANT/BHAGAT with such a huge amount of GURBANI in SGGS..is declaring so openly that HE FAILED TO SEE a SINGLE SANT and only saw hordes of SAADHS/THUGGHS ..IH Sant na akheyean..benaras ke THUGGH !! Now our "standards" have fallen so LOW..that we not only have HORDES of....Sants..and Baba Jis and Maharajs..we have GURUS..and SATGURUS !!!..I ma just waiting for the Day when a "WAHEGURU JI" also makes His appearance !! I am SURE that UNLIKE Bhagat Kabir Ji..we will be instantly able to recognise this "Waheguru" as easily as we have seen all those hundred thousand SANTS !!

    Here is an article form SikhChic..giving a comparative study of the word "sant" and "saint" as is used in English....You will NOTICE that among the worlds religions...only "Catholics" have saints....Muslims, christians, buddhists etc have no such persons. Even the Catholics have no LIVING SAINTS...unlike us...

    READ ON:

    sikhchic.com

    by MANJYOT KAUR & I.J. SINGH

    "When the saints go marching in ..." says a popular Christian hymn,
    most often heard nowadays as a quintessential Dixieland jazz tune.

    But how does one define a saint? What makes a saint? And why be one
    even if you can?

    We know that Roman Catholics have a finely honed, infinitely nuanced
    mechanism for making one - the long, drawn-out process of
    canonization, as it is called. It has been used only since the 10th
    century; for hundreds of years prior, starting with the first martyrs
    of the early Church, saints were chosen by public acclaim.

    The rules of the Vatican, which underwent sweeping changes in 1983 by
    Pope John Paul II, require that a candidate has to be dead at least
    five years before the process is initiated and there are a minimum of
    two credible, verifiable miracles (one for beatification and one for
    canonization) attributed to the person. (However, in the case of a
    martyr, a miracle is not required for beatification.) And there is
    the inexhaustible amount of paperwork on the details of the person's life.

    Sometimes, the progression can be accelerated. For instance, Mother
    Teresa died in 1997; the Pope allowed the process to start early. She
    was beatified in 2003; canonization to sainthood awaits the
    confirmation of the second miracle.

    Our purpose today is not to dissect the Roman Catholic tradition, but
    to let this explanation of it lead us into a consideration of the
    idea in Sikh doctrine, teaching and practice.

    Clearly the English word "saint" and the Punjabi appellation "sant"
    are more than kissing cousins. Their linguistic roots may not be
    entirely identical, however.

    "Saint" is derived from the Latin sanctus (holy, consecrated) and
    sancire (to consecrate). Originally an adjective prefixed to the name
    of a canonized person, by 1300 or thereabouts, it came to be regarded
    as a noun.

    "Sant" may be a modified form of sat which can simply mean "true,"
    but can also be translated as "lasting," "real," and "venerable." Sat
    - or satya - has commonly been used since Vedic times to represent
    the Ever-existent Unchanging Reality, or the Self-existent Universal
    Spirit, that is, Brahma or God. When parsing roots of words, keep in
    mind that Sanskrit may be the root of the linguistic tree that gave
    us the Romance languages, which sprang from Latin.

    The term sant itself came into vogue later, occurring in the ancient
    Pali literature of Buddhism in the sense of "tranquil," "true" or
    "wise." From Pali, it resurfaced centuries later when the Bhakti
    movement, with its distinct Sant tradition, arose. The Sant-Bhaktas
    were opposed to Brahmanical ritualism, idol-worship and casteism.
    They valued a "love relationship" between an individual and the
    Unborn, Formless, Nirguna Divine entity. Through the Bhakti movement,
    the term passed into the Sikh tradition.

    Unlike the English term, which has a formal connotation in a Western
    religious framework, "sant" is not always used in a formal way, but
    in a more subjective sense. To the average person today, it might
    convey the idea of a person possessing immense sagacity and
    judiciousness, with a profound understanding of Dharam.

    Full article:
    http://www.sikhchic.com/<wbr>article-detail.php?id=1368
     
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  21. arshi

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    Tejwant Singh ji excellent points. You are right enlightened souls are always in vigaas (bliss) and are unpreturbed by nindya - in fact they invite it (see Kabir Ji's Bani). I have always wanted to research into nindya and how it affects (or not) 'saints' and how it affects mere mortals like us when it is personally aimed at us or at someone we admire. I too learn from your posts which are objective and are not aimed at belittling or ridiculing anyone, which is more than I can say for some contributors on internet sites.

    It is very late here and I must log off and get some sleep before work tommorow.

    Regards

    'Arshi'
     

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