Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Guru and God No Difference

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by simpy, Jan 7, 2008.

  1. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126

    guru prmysru eyko jwxu ] (864-9, goNf, mÚ 5)
    gur parmaysar ayko jaan.
    Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One.
    jo iqsu BwvY so prvwxu ]1] rhwau ] (864-9, goNf, mÚ 5)
    jo tis bhaavai so parvaan. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    Whatever pleases Him is acceptable and approved. ||1||Pause||
     
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Interfaith So Help Me O’ God, Yahweh, Allah, Vaheguru, Et. Al…… Interfaith Dialogues Oct 19, 2016
    Hard To Believe In God / Waheguru Hard Talk Aug 22, 2016
    Sikhism Is There A Supreme Being / God / Waheguru Or Not? Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Jul 28, 2016
    Opinion Definition of Diety, Human Form, God and Waheguru Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Feb 1, 2016
    Is the Soul Our Inner Guru or God? Questions and Answers Jul 31, 2012

  3. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126

    guru dwqw smrQu guru guru sB mih rihAw smwie ] (49-17, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
    gur daataa samrath gur gur sabh meh rahi-aa samaa-ay.
    The Guru is the Giver, the Guru is All-powerful. The Guru is All-pervading, contained amongst all.
    guru prmysru pwrbRhmu guru fubdw ley qrwie ]2] (49-17, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
    gur parmaysar paarbarahm gur dubdaa la-ay taraa-ay. ||2||
    The Guru is the Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God. The Guru lifts up and saves those who are drowning. ||2||
     
  4. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126

    guru prmysru eyku hY sB mih rihAw smwie ] (53-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
    gur parmaysar ayk hai sabh meh rahi-aa samaa-ay.
    The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.
    ijn kau pUrib iliKAw syeI nwmu iDAwie ] (53-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
    jin ka-o poorab likhi-aa say-ee naam Dhi-aa-ay.
    Those who have such pre-ordained destiny, meditate on the Naam.
    nwnk gur srxwgqI mrY n AwvY jwie ]4]30]100] (53-6, isrIrwgu, mÚ 5)
    naanak gur sarnaagatee marai na aavai jaa-ay. ||4||30||100||
    Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of the Guru, who does not die, or come and go in reincarnation. ||4||30||100||
     
  5. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126

    gauVI bwvn AKrI mhlw 5 ] (250-1)
    ga-orhee baavan akhree mehlaa 5.
    Gauree, Baavan Akhree ~ The 52 Letters, Fifth Mehl:
    sloku ] (250-1)
    salok.
    Shalok:
    gurdyv mwqw gurdyv ipqw gurdyv suAwmI prmysurw ] (250-1, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv maataa gurdayv pitaa gurdayv su-aamee parmaysuraa.
    The Divine Guru is my mother, the Divine Guru is my father; the Divine Guru is my Transcendent Lord and Master.
    gurdyv sKw AigAwn BMjnu gurdyv bMiDp shodrw ] (250-2, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv sakhaa agi-aan bhanjan gurdayv banDhip sahodaraa.
    The Divine Guru is my companion, the Destroyer of ignorance; the Divine Guru is my relative and brother.
    gurdyv dwqw hir nwmu aupdysY gurdyv mMqu inroDrw ] (250-2, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv daataa har naam updaysai gurdayv mant niroDharaa.
    The Divine Guru is the Giver, the Teacher of the Lord's Name. The Divine Guru is the Mantra which never fails.
    gurdyv sWiq siq buiD mUriq gurdyv pwrs prs prw ] (250-3, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv saaNt sat buDh moorat gurdayv paaras paras paraa.
    The Divine Guru is the Image of peace, truth and wisdom. The Divine Guru is the Philosopher's Stone - touching it, one is transformed.
    gurdyv qIrQu AMimRq srovru gur igAwn mjnu AprMprw ] (250-3, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv tirath amrit sarovar gur gi-aan majan apramparaa.
    The Divine Guru is the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, and the pool of divine ambrosia; bathing in the Guru's wisdom, one experiences the Infinite.
    gurdyv krqw siB pwp hrqw gurdyv piqq pivq krw ] (250-4, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv kartaa sabh paap hartaa gurdayv patit pavit karaa.
    The Divine Guru is the Creator, and the Destroyer of all sins; the Divine Guru is the Purifier of sinners.
    gurdyv Awid jugwid jugu jugu gurdyv mMqu hir jip auDrw ] (250-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv aad jugaad jug jug gurdayv mant har jap uDhraa.
    The Divine Guru existed at the primal beginning, throughout the ages, in each and every age. The Divine Guru is the Mantra of the Lord's Name; chanting it, one is saved.
    gurdyv sMgiq pRB myil kir ikrpw hm mUV pwpI ijqu lig qrw ] (250-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv sangat parabh mayl kar kirpaa ham moorh paapee jit lag taraa.
    O God, please be merciful to me, that I may be with the Divine Guru; I am a foolish sinner, but holding onto Him, I am carried across.
    gurdyv siqguru pwrbRhmu prmysru gurdyv nwnk hir nmskrw ]1] (250-6, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    gurdayv satgur paarbarahm parmaysar gurdayv naanak har namaskaraa. ||1||
    The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru. ||1||
     
  6. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126

    guru pwrbRhmu prmysru Awip ] (387-15, Awsw, mÚ 5)
    gur paarbarahm parmaysar aap.
    The Guru is the Supreme Lord God; He Himself is the Transcendent Lord.
    AwT phr nwnk gur jwip ]4]16]67] (387-15, Awsw, mÚ 5)
    aath pahar naanak gur jaap. ||4||16||67||
    Twenty-four hours a day, O Nanak, meditate on the Guru. ||4||16||67||
     
  7. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPN Sewadaar
    Historian SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    Are we saying the actual Guru's were God?
     
  8. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126
    DO WE HAVE DOUBT!!!!!!!!!!

    even after reading their own word-GURBANI.....................

    IS A SOUL THAT IS MEARGED WITH GOD, limited to a human body ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    IS DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI any different!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126
    By the Way,

    RANDIP VEER, WHAT DO YOU THINK GURU SAHIB IS SAYING IN FOLLOWING LINES:

    MANN TU JOT SAROOP HAI APNAA MOOL PAHCHAAN

    :):):):):):):)
     
  10. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126

    nwnk AMqir qyrY inDwnu hY qU bwhir vsqu n Bwil ]2] (569-11, vfhMsu, mÚ 3)
    naanak antar tayrai niDhaan hai too baahar vasat na bhaal. ||2||
    O Nanak, the treasure is within you; do not search for it on the outside. ||2||
     
  11. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28
    this can also be interpreted that God, Waheguru, is the ultimate Guru. the Guru (teacher) of Guru (Nanak). this is why Nanak meditates on Guru. why would Guru Nanak meditate on himself?

    i believe that the Gurus spoke God's words, they contained the Jot of God, but since God has no form (nirankar) and is not born (ajoonee), it's difficult for me to conceive of them as God.

    however, God is also beyond human understanding, so i am very willing to accept that i am wrong. :)
     
  12. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126
    Jasleen Ji, read Gurbani that tells about Nirgun and Sargun.

    like:


    Kojq Kojq drsn cwhy ] (98-2, mwJ, mÚ 5)
    khojat khojat darsan chaahay.
    I have searched and searched, seeking the Blessed Vision of His Darshan.
    Bwiq Bwiq bn bn Avgwhy ] (98-2, mwJ, mÚ 5)
    bhaat bhaat ban ban avgaahay.
    I travelled through all sorts of woods and forests.
    inrguxu srguxu hir hir myrw koeI hY jIau Awix imlwvY jIau ]1] (98-2, mwJ, mÚ 5)
    nirgun sargun har har mayraa ko-ee hai jee-o aan milaavai jee-o. ||1||
    My Lord, Har, Har, is both absolute and related, unmanifest and manifest; is there anyone who can come and unite me with Him? ||1||


    and


    mwJ mhlw 3 ] (128-13)
    maajh mehlaa 3.
    Maajh, Third Mehl:
    inrguxu srguxu Awpy soeI ] (128-13, mwJ, mÚ 3)
    nirgun sargun aapay so-ee.
    The Lord Himself is Unmanifest and Unrelated; He is Manifest and Related as well.
    qqu pCwxY so pMifqu hoeI ] (128-13, mwJ, mÚ 3)
    tat pachhaanai so pandit ho-ee.
    Those who recognize this essential reality are the true Pandits, the spiritual scholars.
    Awip qrY sgly kul qwrY hir nwmu mMin vswvixAw ]1] (128-13, mwJ, mÚ 3)
    aap tarai saglay kul taarai har naam man vasaavani-aa. ||1||
    They save themselves, and save all their families and ancestors as well, when they enshrine the Lord's Name in the mind. ||1||

     
  13. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126
    In Sukhmani Sahib GURU JI SAYS VERY CLEARLY:



    BRAHMGYAANI AAP PARMESAR........


    i will be surprised if people who do Sukhmani Sahib's paath many many times, STILL WONDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i hope realy truly hope that people do think that Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Sahibaan are Brahmgyanies, i hope



    Waheguru Rakha
     
  14. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28
    also note that Gurbani says
    [SIZE=-1]Sabh gobind hai sabh gobind hai gobind bin nahee koee

    meaning: everything is god, everything is god, without god, there is nothing.

    so perhaps we're all god? :)
    [/SIZE]
     
  15. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28
    honestly, this is a difficult idea for me. sometimes i think Guru Nanak is Akal Purakh himself. other times, i believe he was more of a conduit, a direct line to Waheguru...

    gurbani can be interpreted in so many ways... and i the literal interpretation is usually the least correct. :)
     
  16. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126
    yes we are all the same ONE, only thing is that 'Iness' does not let us see that truth.

    that's why Guru Is Telling Us:

    Mann tu Jot Saroop Hai Apnaa Mool Pachaan

    Waheguru
     
  17. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126
    Key is WE NEED TO LIVE THE TRUTH along with interpreting or while reading/listening interpretations: THE TRUTH THAT GURBANI IS TELLING US AGAIN AND AGAIN.


    WE NEED TO HAVE FAITH IN GURU JI'S WORD.


    Dhan Dhan SATGUR Sache Paatshah De Bachan:


    Matt Vich Ratan Javahar Manak Je Ik Gur Ki Sikh Suni.................
    Sunya Mannyaa Mann Keeta Bhao.........................................

    Then Guru Ji gives the Bhujhaee............................................. Antar Tere Nidhaan Hai.......... Then Nidhaan will tell what is right and what is wrong.............................



    Waheguru Rakha
     
  18. simpy

    simpy
    Expand Collapse
    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    126
    There is always infinite depth to it, but mostly at scholarly level the interpretations are correct. There are few words that scholars been debating about, but once one start understanding the deeper realities, one doesnt need to worry about that level anymore.

    Waheguru Rakha
     
  19. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28

    i think you are exactly right. :)
     
  20. Sikh80

    Sikh80
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    54
    Nowhere in sikh philosphy we come across that Gurus[10 gurus] were God. It is only this uniqueness that sikhi is respected.
     
  21. Archived_Member1

    Archived_Member1
    Expand Collapse
    gone to greener pastures
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    28
    you don't think so?

    what about this?

    ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੭॥੯॥
    Gur Nānak Nānak har so*ė. ||4||7||9||
    Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9||
     
    #20 Archived_Member1, Jan 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016

Share This Page