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General Gurdwara Management Seva : Election By Majority Vote Vs Unanimous Selection by Gurmatta

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by kharjindersingh, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. kharjindersingh

    kharjindersingh
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    "Gurdwara Management Seva : Election By Majority Vote Vs Unanimous Selection by Gurmatta"

    ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਸੇਵਾ ਚੋਣ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਲੀ - ਵੋਟਾਂ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਬਹੁਮਤ ਦੀ ਇਲੈਕਸ਼ਨ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਲੀ ਬਨਾਮ ਗੁਰਮਤੇ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਸਰਬਸੰਮਤੀ ਦੀ ਸਿਲੈਕਸ਼ਨ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਲੀ

    Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Gurdwara Sahib is an essential part of the life of a Sikh. The devout Sikhs have a special, sacred and sanctified niche for the gurdwara in their hearts. For its freedom, honour and purity they have given sacrifices unsurpassed in the history of world religions. Unfortunately, Gurdwaras have become centres of factionalism and internecine struggle these day all over the world. Why? Major problem in every Gurdwara is about the management of the Gurdwara? Every sincere Sikh want that the Gurdwara should be managed by right people who are committed to its objective. But then, why we cannot accomplish it unanimously?

    Let us watch a video "Gurdwara Management Seva : Election By Majority Vote Vs Unanimous Selection by Gurmatta" - YouTube to compare, analyze, introspect and reflect on two systems practiced by Sikhs to select/elect Gurdwara Management. You will find that th Sikh community and/or the Management Committees, are not to shoulder the blame, in totality, it is the faulty and corrupt System of management election that forces them to act as they do.

    Please give/add your input/comments/ideas/suggestions to bring the management selection system of our Gurdwaras back to what it is supposed to be in Guru’s way in order to end partisan politics, accomplish the real/long term unity and focus on actual objective of the Gurdwara......

    Guru dwarai hoai sohjee paisee et dwarai dhoai hacha hoaisee
    “Through Guru, one obtains understanding (of divine wisdom), and (it is here) one washes off (one’s evil deeds)

    Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: "Gurdwara Management Seva : Election By Majority Vote Vs Unanimous Selection by Gurmatta"

    kharjindersingh ji

    What is your understanding of Gurmatta per the Sikh Rehat Maryada? I have seen similar threads that call for consensus selection of gurdwara management. It doesn't fit with the history of gurmatta in sikhism which pertains to

    Some gurdwaras do have bylaws that require elections. What would stop them from amending bylaws to change the way committees are formed, from elections to a consensus method? The change might require the sangat to submit new legal articles of incorporation to maintain non-profit status under the law. But that is a legal technicality related to responsible financial management. It doesn't affect religious principles. The law doesn't care how elections take place, only that election/selection methods be spelled out.

    That leads me to ask: Why do sangats use the election approach in the first place? How and why did this get started?
     
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  4. Chaan Pardesi

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    Re: "Gurdwara Management Seva : Election By Majority Vote Vs Unanimous Selection by Gurmatta"

    SP JI, I think the election system started with the British rule over the punjab.They encouraged this and with the formation of the Sikh Board[committee], the name for SGPC in the statue.The british formed this initially to stall the Sikhs from taking control of the Akal Takhat.The british and pro British sikhs elected 36 members,on the 12th of November,1920.

    But the sarbat Khalsa went on to gather on the 15th of November,and went ahead with SELECTION of 175 members including the 36[of whom at least 22 were NOT intiated sikhs]

    Then on the 16th of November , the selected Sikhs presented themselves before 5 piaras for approval of their religious credentials.

    It is also interesting that at this meeting a Sikh objected to Bhai Teja Singh ,that he accepts the title SANT before his name and allows people to bow before him.At once Bhai Teja Singh anounced at the Akal takhat that in future he will not allow anyoe to call him sant nor allow anyone to bow to him.

    As Sikhs later changed the name to SGPC , they became bounded by the rules of the societies registered in India.Thus I often giggle when people erroneously refer to the SGPC as the 'Mini parliament' of the sikhs...it is no where near a parliament as every move of it has to be authenticated and counter approved by the simple DC of amritsar.

    In the next move SGPC held elections , probably as per requirement of the legal rules.
     
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    #3 Chaan Pardesi, Feb 22, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  5. spnadmin

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    Re: "Gurdwara Management Seva : Election By Majority Vote Vs Unanimous Selection by Gurmatta"

    Chan Pardesi ji

    Thanks for the informational history leading to Sarbat Khalsa selection and later SGPC elections.

    My understanding of Gurmatta historically is that it was always reached following the forrmation of a Sarbat Khalsa. Historical precedent is very clear on early examples. Sarbat Khalsa leads to Gurmatta. Gurmatta is not a substitute for matters of governance.

    Is the point that all local sangats should act like mini-sarbat khalsa? That is what I am trying to figure out. My question was about local gurdwara committees. Gurmatta per se applies per the SRM to theological questions and not to gurdwara management. I guess I am saying that I do not the relevance of gurmatta to committee selection or election at the local gurdwara level.
     
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  6. singhbj

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    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh

    I was told that in Bangkok Gurdwara they select chairman of committee by Chits.

    The name of all volunteers or candidates are written on chits.

    Ardas is done in front of Guru Sahib ji and a child in Sangat is asked to draw one chit from the lot.

    The name is announced and that is it !

    There are no fights, no expenditure, no ego clash and nobody to blame for selection.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
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  7. Chaan Pardesi

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    This chit business like the Gurduara Sri Guru Singh sabha Bangkok does take place in a few other gurduaras I have seen.But the issue which remains,that comes up is of nepotism ete ..as it gives the right for one person then to select a committee from the close family or friends etc.There have been issues at the Bankok Gurduara too, it has not escaped the politics around, but because theirs is only this central Gurduara and it has to be run according to the sikh rehat maryada, it has remained largely quite peaceful and settled as far as the running of the gurduara goes.


    The other issue is they are mostly well off and well educated businessmen, who know their own strengths and accept their sewa, without issues.The have been setled for years in the community.

    It is a matter of educating the sangat to recognise the eddicts and rehat of the Sikh Maryada.
     
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    #6 Chaan Pardesi, Feb 22, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Bangkok Sri Guru Singh Sabha is a JATT FREE Gurdwara..its run by the Bhapas - Business Community ( which includes SINDHIS/KHATREES HINDUS etc) and this is a Very CLOSE KNIT Community- these people intermarry..one son may be Hindu the other sikh daughters marry in and out of Hindu/Sikh Families...and the FEW "BUSINESS TYCOONS" actually CONTROL everything...same as in Sri guru Singh Sabha SINGAPORE..and GURDWARA TITIWANGSA in Kuala Lumpur...all these are under the tight control of the BUSINESS SIKHS. No jatts..no chamaars no chhimbas no kamboj..no majha no malwa no doaba sikhs..JUST BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

    This is different from Singh Sabhas run by jatts etc...there no one family or group of families is close knit..inter married..cousins and nephews etc...chahcas taiyas !! Mammas or fuffarrs...

    These Business Families HOLD VETO POWER..via the Land Title to the Gurdawra..close ties to each other...akin to What we call the MASONS...the ORDINARY SANGAT is comrprised of all sikhs..jattas etc and they are allwoed to come, have diwans weddings etc..BUT CONTROL remains in the "chosen few"...and these CHOSEN FEW..having HUGE BUSINESS EMPIRES and enough moneya nd power OUTSIDE the GURDWARA...are therefore "CORRUPTION FREE..not running for pardhaangee for the MONEY or power or position...hence its REAL SEWA..whereby they ahev to SACRIFICE tiem off from their buisnesses and run the Gurdwara...so we have the CHIT SYSTEM so its FAIRLY DONE and no one is unfairly pulled away from business too much...The JATT run Gurdwaars..the President etc is one who is pensioned policeman..ex-watchman..govt official..having LOTS OF FREE TIME..is in it for the Prestige..the money..power..etc etc..so THESE FIGHT tooth and Nail to RETAIN the pardhangee at any COST..hence the liqour and etc distributed..as in SGPC etc..
    SO you find Jatt pardhaans spending GOLUCK MONEY to buy top knotch Presidential Furniture - at home all they have is a manja or old sofa...so they can lord it over the Granthi..sevadaars..gardneres etc...and order these around...sit in the chair at the Gurdwara Office and pretend they are Masters of an EMPIRE !!! Pick up the phone and calla the bank manager...(Running the GURDWARA ACCOUNT gives them "power" at the bank..call up Contractors and give them jobs...( and get them to do up their houses for free )..go to the Super Market and BUY rations like big time Restaurant owners !!! Wah..so many perks...who wnats to let go...

    I am writing from Personal observations after having lived in GURDWARAS for decades...!!!
     
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  9. singhbj

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    Kindly see the attachment of an ideal committee.

    We should look for people with the following virtues.

    Social class & caste have no value in True Kings Court.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh
     

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  10. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Wow !
    This is a real eye opener!
    Something that I have never given much thought about.
    Lately, there have been some major elections in Vancouver, namely the one full public (not private) owned Gurdwara.
    It has come to my attention that most of the activities and seva being carried by fellow sikhs is actually being done for the real reason of gaining votes and sangat confidence !!!
    Is this not 'manmat' ?
    Since the real intentions for seva are not for serving, they are for some sort of personal gain in terms of power acquired by votes and elections !
    We laugh at some the activities and events carried out in US presidential campaigns, but isn't this just as bad as 'fake' campaign ?

    Like I say, I have never given this side of sikhi much thought, but the above posts made me realise and question further.

    Can someone please explain for me what exactly is 'sarbat khalsa' as we understand it and what it is supposed to be ??
    I actually don't have any idea and have only heard it mentioned in ardas at the gurdwara !
     
    #9 Luckysingh, Feb 24, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    It is important to note ahead of time that many factions are referring to Sarbat Khalsa in modern times. These are not by any stretch Sarbat Khalsa.

    Also the SRM description of the purpose of a gurmatta is not in alignment with the history of Gurmatta under Sarbat Khalsa. The intention of a Gurmatta has not changed.

    Here is what Wikipedia uses as its definition.


    How to align SRM with history? Sarbat Khalsa pertains to the panth as a whole. What we take from history into modern times, with the 1920 Sikh Rehat Maryada, is that the issuance of a Gurmatta should be by representatives of the panth as a whole, and the Gurmatta should concern issues of importance to the panth as a whole. It never was intended to apply to local sangats.
     
    #10 spnadmin, Feb 24, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I have started a new thread consisting of serious scholarship about

    Sarbat Khalsa and the History of Gurmatta at

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/40234-sarbat-khalsa-and-the-history-gurmatta.html

    These articles include

    Sarbat Khalsa (by Hajinder Singh Dilgeer at http://hsdilgeer.com/sarbat.htm)

    Sarbat Khalsa and Gurmatta by IJ Singh at http://www.apnaorg.com/books/sikh-misls/book-1.php?fldr=book

    and an e-book

    A Brief History of the Sikh Missls by the Academy of Punjab in North America at
    http://www.apnaorg.com/books/sikh-misls/book-1.php?fldr=book
     
    #11 spnadmin, Feb 24, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013

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