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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
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Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Discussions
Hard Talk
Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana - A Debate
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<blockquote data-quote="Randip Singh" data-source="post: 76076" data-attributes="member: 1323"><p><strong>Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">I made a point before, that in the west it is less dusty. I don't know about others, but I am immaculately clean. I shower twice a day. My feet and hands are very clean. I do not see the need for why I must wash my feet. I see people around me do it, and it seems more like a ritual to me.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">This concept of respect for Guruji and washing? Our Guru's kept company with some of the most unclean so called low life people as can be deemed at that time in history, so I don't hold to that argument. To my mind it has become a ritual.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Is it mentioned? If so when did it become a concept formally for Sikhs? Did Sikhs in say 1755 keep Amritvela? Or did they rise early anyway? The concept of Amritvela is to clear your mind before you start the day. Get yourself spiritually in tune. It is time for yourself, but for some it has become a ritual. I used to hear people bragging as to how early they get up for Amritvela.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">I think the concept behind Amritvela must be analysed, and also an analysis of what it has become today.</span></span></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Interesting point. I think for some the reason why we do this has become a form of worship. The ritual now involves, bowing, praying their for ages, circumnavigating SGGSji, bowing again etc etc.</span></span></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">So when does paying respect become worship? What I have witnessed seems to have become worship.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"> </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Hmmm Jasleen, making inflamatory acusations like this does not do you any justice or me any favours. A third person reading this would probably view me as the devil.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Like all Teachers test their pupils so did the Guru's. The entire concept behind what occurred on Basakhi all those years ago was devised so only the bravest may survive. When Guruji appeared with blood on his sword and the first person do you know how many people ran away? It was not a trick, not a miracles of bringing people to life, but a test, and a test that worked and ensured Sikhi's survival. Only the bravest and strongest became Sikhs.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"> </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">All I am asking is this guys reasoning behind it, and not to attack him personally.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"> </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Varan Bhai Gurdas is very cryptic in the way it is written. It talks about Goats talking etc etc. Many metaphors and the way "Sufi's and Saints" would communicate with one another.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Janamsakhi's are anecdotal, and some of the stories must be taken with a pinch of salt. Of the 4 Sakhi's I have looked at for the same incident there have been 4 different versions, however, the meaning behind the story exactly the same.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">well good for you.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">You must understand that not all customs and rituals would have disappeared overnight. Would the Guru's have greeted people with Sat Sri Akal or another greeting? Understand the concept of Charan Amrit in its context. You are reading eyewitness accounts then read Amandeep Madra's book on eyewitness accounts of Sikhs and you will see Charan Amrit there too.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">You know a friend said to me one, bad things happen not because bad people do them, but because good people do nothing.</span></span></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">His writings in Udit Duniya.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Beliefs in heaven and hell as real places. Angels, demi-gods, devil's etc. There are others too.</span></span></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">They are metaphors.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"> </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Before receiving Amrit was like getting a degree. Now it’s a ritual with sects and others adding their own spin to it.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">I think the Panth is doing a great job on division without KA. In any religion group, organisation it is healthy to have debate and question, and if KA is doing that it is good, if he is not then lets defeat his points by debate and not character assasination.</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Randip Singh, post: 76076, member: 1323"] [b]Re: Allegation of sexual abuse by S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana Ji.[/b] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]I made a point before, that in the west it is less dusty. I don't know about others, but I am immaculately clean. I shower twice a day. My feet and hands are very clean. I do not see the need for why I must wash my feet. I see people around me do it, and it seems more like a ritual to me.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]This concept of respect for Guruji and washing? Our Guru's kept company with some of the most unclean so called low life people as can be deemed at that time in history, so I don't hold to that argument. To my mind it has become a ritual.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Is it mentioned? If so when did it become a concept formally for Sikhs? Did Sikhs in say 1755 keep Amritvela? Or did they rise early anyway? The concept of Amritvela is to clear your mind before you start the day. Get yourself spiritually in tune. It is time for yourself, but for some it has become a ritual. I used to hear people bragging as to how early they get up for Amritvela.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]I think the concept behind Amritvela must be analysed, and also an analysis of what it has become today.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Interesting point. I think for some the reason why we do this has become a form of worship. The ritual now involves, bowing, praying their for ages, circumnavigating SGGSji, bowing again etc etc.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]So when does paying respect become worship? What I have witnessed seems to have become worship.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Hmmm Jasleen, making inflamatory acusations like this does not do you any justice or me any favours. A third person reading this would probably view me as the devil.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Like all Teachers test their pupils so did the Guru's. The entire concept behind what occurred on Basakhi all those years ago was devised so only the bravest may survive. When Guruji appeared with blood on his sword and the first person do you know how many people ran away? It was not a trick, not a miracles of bringing people to life, but a test, and a test that worked and ensured Sikhi's survival. Only the bravest and strongest became Sikhs.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]All I am asking is this guys reasoning behind it, and not to attack him personally.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Varan Bhai Gurdas is very cryptic in the way it is written. It talks about Goats talking etc etc. Many metaphors and the way "Sufi's and Saints" would communicate with one another.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Janamsakhi's are anecdotal, and some of the stories must be taken with a pinch of salt. Of the 4 Sakhi's I have looked at for the same incident there have been 4 different versions, however, the meaning behind the story exactly the same.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]well good for you.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]You must understand that not all customs and rituals would have disappeared overnight. Would the Guru's have greeted people with Sat Sri Akal or another greeting? Understand the concept of Charan Amrit in its context. You are reading eyewitness accounts then read Amandeep Madra's book on eyewitness accounts of Sikhs and you will see Charan Amrit there too.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]You know a friend said to me one, bad things happen not because bad people do them, but because good people do nothing.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]His writings in Udit Duniya.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Beliefs in heaven and hell as real places. Angels, demi-gods, devil's etc. There are others too.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]They are metaphors.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Before receiving Amrit was like getting a degree. Now it’s a ritual with sects and others adding their own spin to it.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]I think the Panth is doing a great job on division without KA. In any religion group, organisation it is healthy to have debate and question, and if KA is doing that it is good, if he is not then lets defeat his points by debate and not character assasination.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana - A Debate
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