Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Gurbani Reduced to Magic Mantras

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Ishna, Sep 5, 2011.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    I don't think I can link to commercial websites, so I'll just post a snippet of what's bothering me just now:

    The mantra Satigur Kar Deenai, written by Guru Arjan, the 5th Guru of the Sikhs, is an invocation of Love into the home. The presence of high, angelic energy is called upon specifically to protect our homes. It is spoken as an affirmative prayer, as if we know this protection has already come to pass, which makes it especially potent. The force of the Universe rushes in to support you. I'm not saying that you leave this mantra playing in the home and then don't lock your doors. By all means, lock your doors and set an alarm if you choose to. What it means is that protection comes from the Universe, whatever tool it chooses to use to protect your home. This mantra summons a powerful, loving force and reminds you that it is the presence of that Love which places you at ease, whether what we are protecting is your home or your heart.
    Mantra for Protecting Your Home: Satigur Kar Deenai

    Satigur kar deenai asthir ghar baar
    Jo jo nind karai in grihan kee
    Tis aagai hee maarai kartaar
    Satigur kar deenai asthir ghar baar
    Nanak daas taa kee saranaa-ee
    Jaa ko shabad akhand apaar

    Translation:
    The Guru has protected our homes
    He who slanders these homes
    Is predestined, by the Creator-Lord, to be defeated
    The Guru has protected our homes
    Nanak seeks but the refuge of that Lord
    Whose word is Infinite and Eternal

    How to use this mantra:
    Recite, chant or listen to this mantra until you feel a sense of peace.
    I'm feeling frustrated, kinda angry, and like a massive disrespect is being shown to Gurbani by this. I feel strongly that this sort of publication and encouragement of these practices is anti-Gurmat and paints and very poor picture of Sikhi to the West (target audience).

    Look what other magic mantras you can get, whoopee-doo!


    • Mantra for Surgery: Triple Mantra, Ra Ma Da Sa and Guru Ram Das
    • Mantra for Respect: Pavan guru paani pitaa (Salok of Japji)
    • Mantra for Destiny: Jat Paahaaraa (The 38th Pauri of Japji)
    • Mantra for Completing Your Karma: Ik Du Jibhau (The 32nd Pauri of Japji)
    • Mantra for Moving Forward: So Dar Kehaa (The 27th Pauri of Japji)
    • Mantra for Business Success: Amul Gun (The 26th Pauri of Japji)
    • Mantra for Elevation: Saalaahi Saalaah (The 23rd Pauri of Japji)
    • Mantra for Legal Victory: Paataalaa Paataal (The 22nd Pauri of Japji)
    Etc etc etc.

    What the heck do these people think their doing?!

    So many Sikhs DIED for Gurbani... and they're selling it like potions in bottles or something. :angryyoungkaur:

    If this post is inappropriate, admin jis can please delete. peacesignkaur
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Full PDF Of Gurbani Sangeet Parachin Reet Ratnavali By Bhai Avatar Singh Gurmat Sangeet Nov 22, 2016
    Mahala And Ghar In Gurbani Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Sep 21, 2016
    Sikhi Color Magic - Eminence Of Colors In Gurbani Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Jun 24, 2016
    Importance Of Tirath / Pilgrimage As Per Gurbani Gurmat Vichaar Jun 1, 2016
    How To Meditate? | How To Do Naam Simran? | As Per Gurbani? Gurmat Vichaar Jun 1, 2016

  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Ishna ji

    I believe that more needs to be done to make the public aware of these distortions that negate the message of Guru Nanak. And there needs to be more discussion. If these bits of nonsense are not posted somewhere then what is there to negate the corrupted influence found on other sites?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    Bhenji,

    A few months ago, I would have shared your outrage, however, I think it is important to have an open mind about the subject.

    Personally, I agree with the general direction of your opinion, and also SPNadminji, and Gyaniji, but, lets be honest here, most sikhs born into sikhism are a superstitious lot, in fact our very own SPGC firmly believe that you can take a drinking, mona, everyday punjabi type and turn them into a Gursikh, with the heart of a khalsa in 7 days, so we are corrupt from the top down. From conversations with family and friends, I now keep my opinions very much to myself, I will quite happily sit in on a discussion on why Raju should marry within caste, whether it should be 3 different bottles of booze on each table, or the same, I will nod at all the gossip, smile patiently while rituals are discussed and implemented, all knowing in my heart that this is not sikhism.

    So that is the world we live in, now the question is, how do we feed these superstitions, do we turn them even more towards hinduism?, do we slowly try and bring them back to Gurbani? What do you say to someone that sees the daily Hukamnana as a sort of horiscope?

    I suppose the one good thing about sites like this is that they will encourage the dwelling on Gurbani, but for the wrong reasons, its the same argument for people that take inspiration from Babas, but only they know where it will lead them, I suppose even if one such person breaks free from the Hindu style of sikhism, then such a webpage is worth it, no?

    I would like to add that my own personal opinion in my heart says that this is wrong, however, the above is an opinion, but not necessarily my own!!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    I am curious how it is possible to adhere to the teachings of Guru Nanak and subscribe to superstition at the same time?

    No problem on my end if people of any faith or ethos subscribe to superstition. It is not for me to judge. But .... shabad and superstition are mutually contradictory, unless one is thinking of cultural Sikhs. Then perhaps there is no contradiction.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    it isnt!

    my point is maybe by whatever means get the bani down their throats and then hopefully they will veer away from superstition to sikhi, and possibly end up denouncing the very method that brought them to it.
     
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    harry ji

    I am trying to think, actually pondering the issue, of how that would work. To push bani down someone's throat in the hopes something might be digested. Is that not what has already happened in households around the world where path is recited mechanicaly, but without any discussion of how the prayers fit into one's life. And all the rejection by children that follows has been pasted all over SPN? I will keep pondering. But it does seem to me that effort is involved. One has to "want" badly and Waheguru has to make the call.
     
  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    I would like to point out spnadminji, that my argument is flawed, even to me!

    however, to clarify, if people want superstition so badly, they obviously need something down their throats, just a thought,
     
  10. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,988
    I totally agree with Ishna ji's outrage. Sadly, Sikhi has become Snake oil for many and one can point fingers at all directions including at ourselves. But the main culprits in all this are the honchos of Akal Takhats and SGPC towards whom the Sikhs look for the Gurmat directions of do’s and don’ts.

    Let’s talk about Harmander Sahib first. There is an old tree in Parikarama called "Bheri Sahib”. There is a big banner installed by "the guides" of Sikhi which goes across the Parikarama which states in bold letters that if one takes a dip in the sarovar there, a leper can be cured, crows can become swans, (because the black colour is not a good thing and people with darker hue are shunned).

    The honchos fail to realize that all hues are parts of the Wow! and Awe! factors that surround us. There is also an enclosed place for the ladies to take a dip in the sarovar.

    Taking a dip is not a Sikhi concept but it has become the utmost ritual, a must, when one visits Harmander Sahib.

    Now, let’s go inside and behind the back door of the Harmandar Sahib, there is a place where one takes water from the sarovar by cupping the hands and drinks it and fills up bottles to take home. Some of the bottles are washed liquor bottles and they take them to their respective dwellings, sip it and/or give it to the sick person at home while waiting for the miracle to take place.

    Bangla Sahib, in New Delhi has a row of people standing with jugs waiting for us to take their offer for a sip or two and put some on the top of the heads which are covered with chunnis/turbans.

    There is also a small gutka called Dukhbhanjni "Sahib" which is shamelessly peddled and sadly, many Sikhs including the Amritdharis also parrot it daily with their Nitnem.

    The “ Tankah” issued by the Jathedaars of the Takhats is to recite so many times Jap or other paaths as a “punishment” which defeats the purpose, rather than asking them to understand and practice Gurbani. It is not their fault because they are not educated enough to know for themselves.

    Yes, we have an Indian culture full of superstitions and the Sikhi minority is surrounded by the majority who believes in and practices these mechanical rituals hoping for some miracle to occur.

    But, when any one of us tries to dwell in any of the superstitions, let’s give a couple of seconds to remind ourselves that Baal Nanak refused to wear the Janieo at the age of 8 which shows how he rejected all kinds of superstitions. There are many Sakhis that demonstrate that.

    We can only shed superstitions when we stop becoming parrots of Gurbani reciters and morph ourselves into true students- Sikhs- by understanding and practicing Gurbani in our own lives, so that the goodness that is bred with that is shared with others like the flower that emits its scent in all directions sans bias.


    Tejwant Singh
     
    • Like Like x 7
  11. linzer

    linzer Mexico
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    598
    Thanks to Tejwant Singh for his very pertinent coments.
    This idiotic drivel that Ishna quotes has to come from 3HO.
    This nonsense appears in the Aquarian teachers manual and worst still in the misnamed site of Sikh Dharma International.
    I must respectfull disagree with Harry Haller. This type of thing gives a bad impression of what Sikhs really are. I think these superstitions can make reasonable people think that all sikhs are crackpots.
    Here in Mexico There are very few of us. I think in all the country there are about 1000 sikhs with 75% being 3HO. I have some good friends that are 3HO and they are well intentioned but we all know what they say about the road to hell.
    My point is that this group is very large and is spreading its silly mumbo jumbo in a world where we already have too much.
    As Sikhs We need to do a better job of getting the words of the Guru out into the world. Mexico need this message as does the rest of the world.
    When we recite the Ardas We remember that people died horrible deaths to keep the true word of the Guru alive. I think if we have to hurt a few feeling to do the same , It´s not so bad
     
    • Like Like x 4
  12. findingmyway

    findingmyway
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    3,767
    Firstly getting bani down throats is completely the wrong approach. Sikhi should be inspired by love, longing and peace, not force.

    Secondly, superstition is easy to adopt and very difficult to shake so very very few people go from superstition to Sikhi. More people go the other way so by not actively combating superstition we are encouraging the dilution and mass exodus from Sikhi.

    I am often considered the black sheep of the family and the Gurdwara congregation because I don't prescribe to the superstitious mumbo jumbo and refuse to teach it to the kids in gurmat classes. In fact I was ousted as a teacher, so you tell me which attitude is more harmful?!

    P.s. Tejwant Veerji, it is good to see you back in action after so long. You have been sorely missed! icecreamkaur
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    Findingmywayji,
    the use of the words shoving down was inappropriate, from my own experience I know how useless this is, however even your post shows how widespread this mumbo jumbo is,

    However the question remains, we are not going to change the perception of people who ring the Babas and Sants in the back of Des Pardes, however, directing people who may end up in some back street in southall, in front of a matted haired freak, parting with copious amounts of money, to bani, surely is the lessor of the two evils. Do I agree with it, no, I do not, but surely it is no worse than someone opening the SGGS at a random page for direction

    I may not find enlightenment in this lifetime, but I am aware it exists, and aware of how to reach it. For that I am fortunate, how many people have no idea that, if followed to the letter, sikhism will give you that enlightenment. To most, sikhi is a social club, and Waheguru is an abrahamic bearded god looking down and capable of granting any wish or boon, provided the proper prayers and rituals have been carried out, and we are not talking of a minority here, we are the minority!

    Are we in fact behaving like the worst kind of intellectuals in looking to deny the common man or woman their interpretation of the faith we follow? After all the way we feel about the subject, given many would disagree with us, is surely our own interpretation.

    I do not think any of us has the right to correct anothers interpretation, it may not be the correct one, but in my experience, such questioning and ones own ability to say 'know what, I dont agree with this anymore, I need more' will slowly but surely point in the end towards the truth.

    Take the example of someone who is a sikh, but does not have the deep faith and conviction they should have, in despair, one day, they end up at this site, they are desperate for jadoo, for miracles, all this website does is direct them to the appropriate bani that is relevant to their problems, no worse than someone searching the SGGS for bani relating a to a problem they may have, but more importantly, if this person reads and accepts, they will want to read the SGGS in its entirety,

    To me it is about educating, somehow, the large proportion of sikhs that still have no idea Sikhism is different from being a social club for Punjabis.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    Ah I just lost my whole darn post! Curse you back button! Curse you netbook PC with your stupidly close mousepad! *shakes fist*
     
    • Like Like x 4
  15. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    ah, you'll be needing the lost post mantra then sis
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    *takes a deep breath* I summarise and try to choose my words carefully.

    1. I am ashamed that we whities love to get our hands on something foreign and turn it into some light and fluffy. That's what's happening with the material from my first post. First impressions count for a lot and if the lead article is amongst the first material a newcomer to Sikhi finds, that's what they're going to believe. I think that's putting them at an unfair disadvantage.

    2. This commercialisation leads to a bunch of khalsa-looking converts who think magic mantras are the height of Sikhi, and they preach that to others, and they replace Sikh history with their own.

    3. It reflects badly on Sikhs, especially white Sikhs. It is already difficult for a white Sikh (not unlike myself) to be taken seriously by Punjabi Sikhs. They think we are interested in yoga and magic mantras and basically taking all the practicality out of what is a fairly basic and rational way of life and injecting a bunch of light and love hearts and additional rituals and all the shiny stuff us Westerners really seem to love. We can only hope the fad fades quickly (but I think it's only just starting...).

    4. That said, there are lots of white Sikhs who have made great contributions to Sikhi these days (like that big teddy bear Guruka Singh we all just want to hug!).

    Harry bhaji, you said:

    and later

    I think there are two themes running in this thread, and they are the same just different colours!

    But you can't educate without correcting or dispelling myths. And I personally feel the material in the lead post is unnecessarily perpetuating misleading information. It is using Gurbani to do what Guru Nanak strictly preached against! You might as well engrave Ik Oankar on the side of pint glasses and make a line of hair colouring products and call it "Khalsa Colour" (oohh, quick, TM that!!).

    It's like Christians promoting the use of Bible passages just like you would as a witch casting a magic spell!

    But what can you do except hope these people either look deeper for the Sikhi or let go of these mantras quickly.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Ishna

    Ishna
    Expand Collapse
    On hiatus
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    5,002
    lol Nice one brother
     
  18. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    Bhenji, I agree with you 100%,

    I would however like to comment on the rationality behind web sites like this, in punjabi culture, if there is something we do not like, or agree with, we will debate it, but not come to any conclusion. All conclusions are possible, and nothing definitive is done about it, although one conclusion may be the best and most intelligent, it will not be concluded as a conclusion.

    examples include,

    marijuana and nihangs
    Caste system marriages
    superstitions
    rituals

    ALL those things go on in some Punjabi Gurudwaras , the world is an imperfect place, what do you do, lock out all the people that toe a certain line, isnt the constant revision of the SRM a sign that things do change, and not always for the better?

    I do not think anything reflects badly on anyone, it is up to us to take out the good and the truth from even the dog turd, instead of focusing on the obvious and the negative

    I watched a white sikh video on Nihangs, possibly from the same stable, these people are known as the chardi kala jatha! they concluded that marijuana use was common in war in sikh nihangs, and that the use today is from that tradition, they concluded that it was ok to be used in a time of war, but not 6 times a day when not at war.

    OK fair enough, not sure I agree with it, but at least it has concluded their thoughts on nihangs and marijuana to some satisfaction for all concerned, whereas we punjabis tend to carrying on doing things we know to be wrong, whilst all the time saying, 'we shouldnt do this, but hey we are not perfect' after all Raju is a khatri, and we cannot marry him to a Jat can we now. There are words for people like us, in the UK they are called NIMBYS

    I agree with everything as long as it is

    Not In My Back Yard
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
    Expand Collapse
    Admin SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    5,973
    Likes Received:
    5,043
    Ishna ji, if you are scripting a longish post, the advisable thing would be to write in the notepad or word-pad and cut paste. Also added this suggestion in the quick reply box.

    All the best!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Isna Ji,I agree smoking pot six times a day is excessive, why can't they just smoke one long one !On a serious note many christian passages are described in a similar way or addressing certain problems.As holy word destroys all problems, it does not really matter which passage one uses, as it is all actually embedded with Ik Onkaar and that is the real essence of it.
     

Share This Page