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General God the Water (BoSKD 3)

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by BhagatSingh, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Bani of Sant Kabir Das, Shabad #3, starts in the middle of page 323, followed by more of his shabads.

    Having been introduced to Kabir's philosophy and belief system, and his meditation experiences (in 1 and 2), we now explore Kabir's writings in depth, we explore various themes, different analogies and metaphors.




    ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ
    In Raag Gaurhi, Bani of the Bhagats



    ੴ ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    Truth His name, Creator, Man, Blessing of the Guru.

    ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਚਉਪਦੇ ੧੪
    Raag Gaurhi, Type: Guareri. 14 Chaupdey by Kabir.

    ਅਬ ਮੋਹਿ ਜਲਤ ਰਾਮ ਜਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ
    Now my fire has obtained the water that is meditation on Ram.

    Background: In Indian culture, fire represents that restlessness, that want for the next moment. Fire is the want of more substances to add to oneself, as the fire needs fuel to exist. This causes suffering. Simultaneously, fire is also something which makes you pure. Gold is put under fire to make it pure. A human suffers and through suffering finds God. Guru Nanak says
    ਦੁਖੁ ਦਾਰੂ ਸੁਖੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਭਇਆ ਜਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਤਾਮਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ Suffering is the medicine to the disease of pleasure, when there is pleasure there is no desire to remember God.

    ਰਾਮ ਉਦਕਿ ਤਨੁ ਜਲਤ ਬੁਝਾਇਆ ਰਹਾਉ
    Ram is that medicine, that cure which has put out my fire. 1. Think about this.

    ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਣ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਬਨ ਜਾਈਐ
    To kill off their mind, their fiery mental activity, they go to the forests, in isolation.


    ਸੋ ਜਲੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਵੰਤ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ
    Without the water of meditation, Bhagwant cannot be obtained. 1.

    The fire remains unless Ram puts it out. So yes you went into isolation, into solitude, and did not fuel the fire but it has already started, you have to do something to put it out.

    ਜਿਹ ਪਾਵਕ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਹੈ ਜਾਰੇ
    That bonfire has consumed angels and mortals alike

    ਰਾਮ ਉਦਕਿ ਜਨ ਜਲਤ ਉਬਾਰੇ
    Ram is the cure which pulls everyone out of the fire. 2.

    ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ ਮਾਹੀ
    Within this terrifying world-ocean is the ocean of peace.


    ਪੀਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਜਲ ਨਿਖੁਟਤ ਨਾਹੀ
    The supply does not finish no matter how much you drink from it.
    3.

    ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਜੁ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਪਾਨੀ
    Says Kabir, meditate on the Archer.


    ਰਾਮ ਉਦਕਿ ਮੇਰੀ ਤਿਖਾ ਬੁਝਾਨੀ
    Ram is that drink which has quenched my thirst. 4. 1.



    Summary
    Basically, the desire for more material things, whether it is physical objects: new car, new house, or mental: more knowledge, identity, it does not matter, the desires simply continues to desire things. This behaviour has consumed everyone. Ram is the only cure for this desire. Whether you go off into forests or whether you stay home, you have to focus your mind on Ram.


    Questions
    What is the ocean of peace in the worldly ocean? How to identify it?





    Bani of Sant Kabir Das 2
    Bani of Sant Kabir Das 1
     
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    #1 BhagatSingh, Sep 27, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
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  3. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    _/|\_ Sat Nam

    How? What is the easiest way to keep the focus on the Divine? Help!


    Nam Jiwan :)
     
  4. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    The easiest way is to take your focus away or off other matters.
    This is why I feel that meditation is necessary for me, as firstly, I need to practice or train on focusing on the ''nothingness''..
    Then later this ''nothingness'' becomes Everything, which is the One and True Lord.
     
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  5. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Yeah the best way is to pick something and focus on it, the breath, some mantra, activity, etc, and then look for the one who is experiencing the breath, listening to the mantra, doing the activity. Withdraw your attention from the five senses to the receiver of the information from the senses, to the one who experiences through those senses. God is called Antaryami, because He dwells within, and experiences everything. Basically, if you identify with your thoughts and the mind, if you think you are your thoughts, then your consciousness is God. You want to view your consciousness devoid of any other content, and you'll slowly work towards this goal by clarifying the content that in there in the first place. Just being aware of the consciousness alone is hard, and harder to simply jump to that like Lucky Singh ji said. Start by focusing on some experience and then move your attention to the one who is experiencing it all.

    The idea is to constantly clarify the experience. Separate it into parts and focus in on the various bits, train your attention to scan back and forth. For example, with the breath, you can hone in on the feeling at the tip of the nose, you can feel it in the nasal passage in your nose, you can feel your stomach rise up and down.

    You can recall sacred images, stories, shabads and kirtan to keep the mind fixed. This is much more efficient than doing dry meditations like focusing on the breath because they involve many parts of the brain on one task. Watch the Ramayana for example. There are plenty of films out there that inspire oneself, and lead the mind to God. I don't know if you can understand Hindi but something like this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWZCmVOevZY&feature=related

    I reckon Sant Kabir and the others knew of the stories of Ram Chandra, etc which they constantly bring up in the shabads. I reckon they also did that during their meditations.

    There is also Keanu Reeves's movie on the Buddha. Other Hindi films on God. Here's a Punjabi film.
    Nanak Naam Jahaz Hai - YouTube

    You can try recalling images and stories of the Gurus and focusing the mind on that whilst you chant or breath or do other things. I know some Singhs who do this. Sobha Singh's Guru Nanak immediately comes to mind. Images are VERY powerful. You tell someone to imagine Guru Nanak and 99% of the time this is who they will describe. You can constantly recall such images to help you bring your attention to God. Many people also hang such religious images around the house, so the mind keeps getting the signals to focus on them.
    [​IMG]

    There are pros and cons to how you do it. With anything, you don't want to become dependent on the technique, but be able to transcend it.
     
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    #4 BhagatSingh, Sep 28, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
  6. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    This peace ocean is within and among the world ocean.
    The peace is there all along, but may appear dormant at times among us.
    Every drop of water that makes the ocean, itself can find this peace within itself.
    Each one of us is a single drop and meditating on the name can help bring the peace to the surface.

    We all have our own rivers running through us. As quoted in the shabad ''the supply never finishes'' -New peace, can be found again and again.
    NOTE- this mention of renewing and new peace is in addition to the peace that is forever dormant in the ''name of Ram or Lord''
    Just as we breathe continously to renew the gases and cell transfer processes going on inside, we can also keep updating and renewing the peace within and among.

    We have to keep at it, we can't just expect to meditate on the name once and expect peace forever!!!

    PS. Kabir ji's bani is quite deep, I have just re-read the earlier parts to refresh and realised just how much depth is in the shabad.
     
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  7. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    Satnaam Ji,

    For me, i close my eyes during amrit vela (or any time you can find in a quiet place). I focus on a single point behind the eyes inbetween the eyebrows. take your attention dyaaan there.
    while doing this i use a mantra...usually 'Satnaam' or 'waheguru'...
    i tell my mind to keep repeating it silently (not verbal)...mind follows my command....but soon after it wants to think about something else...but then you keep telling it to do satnaam waheguru. Eventually it learns to listen to your command rather than bossing you about :)

    Once the mind has been taken care of with the mantra, i can then stop the mantra and sit in deep meditation focussing attention within myself (behind the eyes) which has taken my attention away from the outer world. then i sit in peace and enjoy whatever is seen or heard within...sometimes it is just a blisful silence, othertimes energy flowing thorughout...

    But it doesnt matter about the experience...for me the most important thing is to focus on 'self' 'consciousness' and start the journey to understand oneself and ultimately god.

    God bless you on your journey
     
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  8. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    BHAGAT SINGH Ji,

    Your question,

    Questions
    What is the ocean of peace in the worldly ocean? How to identify it?


    Answer

    It is "GURMATi RAAM NAAMu" and to be identified thru the WORD OF GuR.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  9. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Prakash ji
    Please elaborate:

    1. What is Gurmat Ram Naam?
    2. What does the Word of Gur tell us?
     
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  10. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    One can try to learn these from careful perusal of Gurbaanee.
    As per my observations

    Gurmati Raam Naamu is one which is as per point of view of GuR that is Gurjoti. and Gur Ka sabadu is stated to be the WORD OF GuR and this is

    the word <HARi.HARi> and is being refered as RAAM NAAMu.

    One should try to understand this from Gurbaanee.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  11. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Prakash ji
    Are we to chant Hari Hari, focusing our attention on Ram Naam and realize Hari?

    Have you had that realization?
     
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  12. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Yes my focus is on this word <HARi.HARi> only and I relish this a lot.
    And I wish to do so till my last breath.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  13. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Prakash ji,
    Have you seen Hari yet? Had any experiences you'd like to share?
     
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  14. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    I have realised and seen Hari as Iku EKANKAAR.
    Whenever I am reading SGGS I get to see Hari only.
    When I focus on the word <HAri.HARi> I see GuR as Iku EKANKAAR as HARi only.
    This is what I can only share at the moment with your goodself.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  15. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Prakash ji,
    I have many questions for individuals who say they have seen God/Hari/Ekankar. Like they say in SGGS, now is the time to meet Him, stop delaying it.

    Please share more.
     
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  16. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    I think you could meet Him, be meeting Him, but not say you have Met Him.

    The idea is you are continuously absorbing His experience.
     
  17. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    It would be important to understand the meaning of meeting HARi/EKANKAAR/PRABH.
    In Gurbanee this meeting is clearly refered as union of JOTee-JOTi in the living state. Meeting with HARi/PRABH is experiencing the pleasure of this Union and the pleasure of such union is beyond description.The person experiencing this union remain in a distnct state of thinking.
    There are several messages in Gurbanee from where one can learn the indications of such a union.There are several messages which convey the clear way of experiencing such a union of course thru this happens only thru the grace of Guru,
    In a nut shell such experience is refered as "GOONE KEE MITHAEE(Sweet of Dumb).
    Therefore one should continue reading Gurbanee as much as one can to
    realise the grace of GuRu for such a union with HARi/Prabh./EKANKAAR.

    Pakash.S.Bagga
     
  18. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    There is no meeting as such, it's not like that it's you on one side and him on the other and you communicate with each other!

    It's more of a Realisation.
    The Realising is being able to experience this world and everything else in the same way that he sees and experiences it.

    A realised person will know exactly what I'm talking about, because they should be able to see and understand me in the same light that God himself does.

    0:)
     
  19. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Prakash ji,
    To someone who has no idea what we are talking about. My answer would be that Hari is that which perceives the world in us and the perceived world out there as ONE entity. Hari is that which in its core, is stability and bliss (not pleasure but a deeper happiness). Hari is the Truth because all else is peripheral and temporary and only He IS, he is the core and the real.

    I know the union as it is described in SGGS and various books. I also know it within myself but I want to hear YOUR experience.

    Lucky Singh ji,
    The Gurus never use language of realization. They always talk about seeing God and meeting him. For them God is their lover from who they have been separated and they are trying to get back and meet their Beloved.

    I am with you, I think, my experience was (initially) that of discovery, and I think we are very disconnected with the Guru's tradition because we had the experiences whilst being outside of it, during a period in which we weren't fully immersed and fully knowledgeable of the Guru's message. And we are only just coming in to learn about the Guru's message. It maybe easier for one who has realized it than one who has not realized it. But I do feel there is a disconnect on how we relate to God vs how Gurus did. (Although this is the case with me, I could be wrong about you. Please correct me.)

    Guru Ramdas ji literally cries his heart out here in this shabad below.


    ਗੋਂਡ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
    गोंड महला ४ ॥
    Gond mėhlā 4.
    Raag Gond, Guru Ramdas:

    ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਕਉ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਬਹੁ ਤਪਤੈ ਜਿਉ ਤ੍ਰਿਖਾਵੰਤੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਨੀਰ ॥੧॥
    हरि दरसन कउ मेरा मनु बहु तपतै जिउ त्रिखावंतु बिनु नीर ॥१॥
    Har ḏarsan ka▫o merā man baho ṯapṯai ji▫o ṯarikẖāvaʼnṯ bin nīr. ||1||
    My heart yearns painfully for one glance of Hari, like a thirsty man who yearns for water. 1.

    ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੁ ਲਗੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੀਰ ॥
    मेरै मनि प्रेमु लगो हरि तीर ॥
    Merai man parem lago har ṯīr.
    My mind has been pierced by the arrow of Hari's love.

    ਹਮਰੀ ਬੇਦਨ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਪੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    हमरी बेदन हरि प्रभु जानै मेरे मन अंतर की पीर ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Hamrī beḏan har parabẖ jānai mere man anṯar kī pīr. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Only Hari, my Lord, knows this intense pain deep within my heart. 1. Pause.

    ਮੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਕੀ ਕੋਈ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਭਾਈ ਸੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਬੀਰ ॥੨॥
    मेरे हरि प्रीतम की कोई बात सुनावै सो भाई सो मेरा बीर ॥२॥
    Mere har parīṯam kī ko▫ī bāṯ sunāvai so bẖā▫ī so merā bīr. ||2||
    Someone please tell me stories and tales of my Beloved Hari; only he who does is my true friend and brother. 2.


    ਮਿਲੁ ਮਿਲੁ ਸਖੀ ਗੁਣ ਕਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇ ਲੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਧੀਰ ॥੩॥
    मिलु मिलु सखी गुण कहु मेरे प्रभ के ले सतिगुर की मति धीर ॥३॥
    Mil mil sakẖī guṇ kaho mere parabẖ ke le saṯgur kī maṯ ḏẖīr. ||3||
    Come together sisters and say praises of my Lord, after absorbing the words of the patient True Guru. 3.

    ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੀ ਹਰਿ ਆਸ ਪੁਜਾਵਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਸਨਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਸਰੀਰ ॥੪॥੬॥ ਛਕਾ ੧॥
    जन नानक की हरि आस पुजावहु हरि दरसनि सांति सरीर ॥४॥६॥ छका १॥
    Jan Nānak kī har ās pujāvahu har ḏarsan sāʼnṯ sarīr. ||4||6|| Cẖẖakā 1||
    Please fulfill the hopes of Nanak and his people, only upon seeing You will my body and mind will come to peace. 4.


    Bhai Harjinder Singh's rendition:
    http://www.sikhroots.com/component/...ngh/666-darshan-pyaas/7920-mere-man-prem.html

    Bhai Balwinder Singh's extrodinary rendition and sakhi:
    http://www.{url not allowed}/gurbani/audio/prem-lago-har-theer
     
  20. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    Bhagat Singh Ji,

    When you are seeing the SYMBOL EKANKAAR,you are actually seeing Hari/Prabh as this SYMBOL is stated to be HARi MOORATi or GuR MOORATi.
    One is required to realise this very fact seeing the ULTIMATE LORD as envisaged in
    Gurbanee.
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  21. itsmaneet

    itsmaneet
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    Hundreds of times 'RAM' word is used in Gurbani. It's not necessary that it's for 'the king' Ram-Chandra. "RAM" is meant to someone who is merged in The Almighty "Ramya Hoya" / Merged in Almighty. So Kabir Ji obviously would not worship a body so his attention is towards the Almighty & all those who are merged in the Almighty/Akal Roopi Jeevs
     
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