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God, Master, Guru, Saint, Godman, Lord: 'ALL THE SAME'

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Sardara123, Feb 25, 2008.

  1. Sardara123

    Sardara123
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    A Master, Guru, Godman or Saint: What do we mean by these terms?

    These are those souls, which are already merged with Waheguru, Lord, God; SO THERE REMAIN NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM AND GOD and they are present on the Earth to show the suffering humanity the way to merge with the same God, Lord, Waheguru. They never die, AS THEY ARE THE INFINITE LORD HIMSELF. Like Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Guru Angad Dev Ji, Guru Amar Das Ji, Guru Ram Das Ji, Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Guru HarGobind Ji, Guru Har Rai Ji, Guru Har Krishan Ji, Guru Tegh Bahadar Ji, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, EVER PRESENT.


    Yet, there are many many many people who DENY their presence(presence of Master, Guru, Godman, and Saint) as God Himself, and take them at the same human level as they themselves are, THUS FAIL TO BENEFIT FROM WHATEVER THESE GREAT SOULS ARE OFFERING THEM ENDLESSLY.




    Gurbani tells us about Guru Nanak Dev Ji:

    English Translation:

    Gond, Fifth Mehl:
    I worship and adore my Guru; the Guru is the Lord of the Universe.
    My Guru is the Supreme Lord God; the Guru is the Lord God.
    My Guru is divine, invisible and mysterious.
    I serve at the Guru's feet, which are worshipped by all. ||1||
    Without the Guru, I have no other place at all.
    Night and day, I chant the Name of Guru, Guru. ||1||Pause||
    The Guru is my spiritual wisdom, the Guru is the meditation within my heart.
    The Guru is the Lord of the World, the Primal Being, the Lord God.
    With my palms pressed together, I remain in the Guru's Sanctuary.
    Without the Guru, I have no other at all. ||2||
    The Guru is the boat to cross over the terrifying world-ocean.
    Serving the Guru, one is released from the Messenger of Death.
    In the darkness, the Guru's Mantra shines forth.
    With the Guru, all are saved. ||3||
    The Perfect Guru is found, by great good fortune.
    Serving the Guru, pain does not afflict anyone.
    No one can erase the Word of the Guru's Shabad.
    Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9||
    source: SikhiToTheMax

    Punjabi Translation:
    ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੇ ਘੁੱਪ ਹਨੇਰੇ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਬਚਣ ਲਈ) ਗੁਰੂ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਥਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੁੱਝਦਾ (ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਆਸਰਾ ਲੈ ਸਕਾਂ। ਸੋ) ਮੈਂ ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਜਪਦਾ ਹਾਂ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਓਟ ਤੱਕੀ ਬੈਠਾ ਹਾਂ)।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।
    ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! (ਮੇਰਾ) ਗੁਰੂ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਹੀ) ਮੇਰੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ (ਦੇਵ-) ਪੂਜਾ ਹੈ, (ਮੇਰਾ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ (ਦਾ ਰੂਪ) ਹੈ। ਮੇਰਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ (ਦਾ ਰੂਪ) ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਬੜੀ ਸਮਰਥਾ ਦਾ ਮਾਲਕ ਹੈ। ਮੇਰਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਸ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼-ਰੂਪ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਆਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਭੇਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ। ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਗੁਰ-ਚਰਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਪੂਜਦੀ ਹੈ।੧।
    ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਗੁਰੂ ਹੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਚਰਚਾ ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ (ਸਦਾ ਮੇਰੇ) ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਇਹੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਉਸ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦਾ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਸਰਬ-ਵਿਆਪਕ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਦਾ ਪਾਲਣਹਾਰ ਹੈ। ਮੈਂ (ਆਪਣੇ) ਦੋਵੇਂ ਹੱਥ ਜੋੜ ਕੇ (ਸਦਾ) ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ। ਗੁਰੂ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਆਸਰਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੁੱਝਦਾ।੨।
    ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਗੁਰੂ ਜਹਾਜ਼ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘਾ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪਿਆਂ ਜਮਾਂ (ਦੇ ਡਰ) ਤੋਂ ਖ਼ਲਾਸੀ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ। (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੇ) ਘੁੱਪ ਹਨੇਰੇ ਵਿਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਹੀ (ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ) ਚਾਨਣ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਰਿਹਾਂ ਸਾਰੇ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦਾ ਪਾਰ-ਉਤਾਰਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।੩।
    ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਵੱਡੀ ਕਿਸਮਤ ਨਾਲ ਪੂਰਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਿਲ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪਿਆਂ ਕੋਈ ਦੁੱਖ ਪੋਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ। (ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ) ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਬਦ (ਵੱਸ ਪਏ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ) ਕੋਈ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇ ਉਜਾਰੇ ਨੂੰ) ਮਿਟਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਉਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ।੪।੭।੯।
    source: http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0864.html

    Guru Shabad:

    goNf mhlw 5 ]
    guru myrI pUjw guru goibMdu ]
    guru myrw pwrbRhmu guru BgvMqu ]
    guru myrw dyau AlK AByau ]
    srb pUj crn gur syau ]1]
    gur ibnu Avru nwhI mY Qwau ]
    Anidnu jpau gurU gur nwau ]1] rhwau ]
    guru myrw igAwnu guru irdY iDAwnu ]
    guru gopwlu purKu Bgvwnu ]
    gur kI srix rhau kr joir ]
    gurU ibnw mY nwhI horu ]2]
    guru boihQu qwry Bv pwir ]
    gur syvw jm qy Cutkwir ]
    AMDkwr mih gur mMqRü aujwrw ]
    gur kY sMig sgl insqwrw ]3]
    guru pUrw pweIAY vfBwgI ]
    gur kI syvw dUKu n lwgI ]
    gur kw sbdu n mytY koie ]
    guru nwnku nwnku hir soie ]4]7]9]



    Guru Arjan Dev Ji says: Brahmgyani Ka Nahi Binaas...
     
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  3. Sardara123

    Sardara123
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    Gurbani tells us about Guru Arjan Dev Ji:

    English Translation:
    As long as the destiny written upon my forehead was not activated, I wandered around lost, running in all directions.
    I was drowning in the horrible world-ocean of this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, and my remorse would never have ended.
    O Mat'huraa, consider this essential truth: to save the world, the Lord incarnated Himself.
    Whoever meditates on Guru Arjun Dayv, shall not have to pass through the painful womb of reincarnation ever again. ||6||
    source: SikhiToTheMax


    Punjabi Translation:

    hy BweI! jd qweIN m`Qy dy Bwg nhIN sn jwgy, qd qweIN bhuq Btkdy qy B`jdy iPrdy sW, kljug dy frwauxy smuMdr ivc fu`b rhy sW, p`Coqwvw iksy vyly imtdw nhIN sI [ pr, hy mQurw! hux s`cI ivcwr ieh hY ik jgq ƒ qwrn leI (hrI ny gurU Arjun) Avqwr bxwieAw hY, ijnHW ny gurU Arjun dyv (jI) ƒ jipAw hY, auh prq ky grB jUn qy du`KW ivc nhIN Awey [6[
    source: http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/1409.html

    Guru Shabad:
    jb lau nhI Bwg illwr audY qb lau BRmqy iPrqy bhu DwXau ]
    kil Gor smudR mY bUfq Qy kbhU imit hY nhI ry pCuqwXau ]
    qqu ibcwru XhY mQurw jg qwrn kau Avqwru bnwXau ]
    jp´au ijn@ Arjun dyv gurU iPir sMkt join grB n AwXau ]6]
     
  4. Sardara123

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    Gurbani tells us about Guru Ram Das Ji:

    English Translation:
    Blessed, blessed is Guru Raam Daas; He who created You, has also exalted You.
    Perfect is Your miracle; the Creator Lord Himself has installed You on the throne.
    The Sikhs and all the Congregation recognize You as the Supreme Lord God, and bow down to You.
    You are unchanging, unfathomable and immeasurable; You have no end or limitation.
    Those who serve You with love - You carry them across.
    Greed, envy, sexual desire, anger and emotional attachment - You have beaten them and driven them out.
    Blessed is Your place, and True is Your magnificent glory.
    You are Nanak, You are Angad, and You are Amar Daas; so do I recognize You.
    When I saw the Guru, then my mind was comforted and consoled. ||7||
    source: SikhiToTheMax

    Punjabi Translation:
    gurU rwmdws DMn hY DMn hY! ijs Akwl purK ny (gurU rwmdws ƒ) pYdw kIqw ausy ny aus ƒ sohxw BI bxwieAw [ ieh iek mukMml krwmwiq hoeI hY ik isrjxhwr ny ^ud (Awpxy Awp ƒ aus ivc) itkwieAw hY [ sB is`KW ny qy sMgqW ny aus ƒ Akwl purK dw rUp jwx ky bMdnw kIqI hY [(hy gurU rwmdws!) qUM sdw kwiem rihx vwlw hYN, qYƒ qoilAw nhIN jw skdw (Bwv, qyry gux igxy nhIN jw skdy; qUM iek AYsw smuMdr hYN ijs dI) hwQ nhIN pY skdI, pwrly qy aurly bMny dw AMq nhIN pY skdw [ ijnHW bMidAW ny ipAwr nwl qyrw hukm mMinAw hY qUM auhnW ƒ (sMswr-smuMdr qoN) pwr lµGw id`qw hY, auhnW dy AMdroN qUM l`b, loB, kwm, kRoD, moh qy hor swry ivkwr mwr ky k`F id`qy hn [ (hy gurU rwmdws jI!) qUM hI gurU nwnk hYN, qUM hI bwbw lhxw hYN, mYN qYƒ hI gurU Amrdws smiJAw hY [
    (ijs iksy ny) gurU (rwmdws) dw dIdwr kIqw hY ausy dw mn qdoN itkwxy Aw igAw hY [7[


    Guru Shabad:
    DMnu DMnu rwmdws guru ijin isirAw iqnY svwirAw ]
    pUrI hoeI krwmwiq Awip isrjxhwrY DwirAw ]
    isKI AqY sMgqI pwrbRhmu kir nmskwirAw ]
    Atlu AQwhu Aqolu qU qyrw AMqu n pwrwvwirAw ]
    ijn@I qUM syivAw Bwau kir sy quDu pwir auqwirAw ]
    lbu loBu kwmu k®oDu mohu mwir kFy quDu sprvwirAw ]
    DMnu su qyrw Qwnu hY scu qyrw pYskwirAw ]
    nwnku qU lhxw qUhY guru Amru qU vIcwirAw ]
    guru ifTw qW mnu swDwirAw ]7]
     
  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Here's another verse (partial verse Salok M.9) related to the topic :

    Naam, Sadhu, Gur and Gobind remain eternally.
     
  6. spnadmin

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    Sardara ji

    There are so many things to say about Guru Ram Das. Where can one start? I hope this shabad starts a discussion about him. He is a study of magnificence.

    His shabads as "poetry" are uniquely beautiful. The things he does with verse. As Guru and as a man, this Guru's life would make a wonderful thread for forum members to read and study. He had to be a wonderful father. His son loved him so much. He inspired so much from the bhagats. He was the last Guru (except for the littlest one) to die a natural death. All the others martyred.
     
  7. Sardara123

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    Physical body and whatever happens to it, doesn't matter Aad Ji.

    I remember my conversation with a Saintly soul, this woman was dying of cancer and her words used to be, 'I am not sick, this body is, I am not this body'. Whenever I remember her words, I cry.
     
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  8. Sardara123

    Sardara123
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    If I am not wrong, (please correct me if I am wrong):

    No body found dead bodies of Ist and 10th Nanak- Guru nanak Dev ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and neither of Guru Gobind Singh ji's horse!!!
     
  9. spnadmin

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    Sardara 123.

    This is also my understanding. The bodies were never found, and also of Guru Gobind Singh's horse.

    We are told that the 10th Guru died of blood poisoning from a wound. But that is the last we know.
     
  10. Sardara123

    Sardara123
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    Think about the good fortune Guru ji's horse has.
     
  11. spnadmin

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    I wonder about his hawk -- what happened there. They are souls too. Why do we think about this kind of thing?
     
  12. Sardara123

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    Guru Ji tells us:

    English Translation:
    Shalok, Third Mehl:
    Worship the Divine, Supreme Soul, with the intuitive peace and poise of the Guru.
    If the individual soul has faith in the Supreme Soul, then it shall obtain realization within its own home.
    The soul becomes steady, and does not waver, by the natural inclination of the Guru's Loving Will.
    Without the Guru, intuitive wisdom does not come, and the filth of greed does not depart from within.
    If the Lord's Name abides within the mind, for a moment, even for an instant, it is like bathing at all the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage.
    Filth does not stick to those who are true, but filth attaches itself to those who love duality.
    This filth cannot be washed off, even by bathing at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage.
    The self-willed manmukh does deeds in egotism; he earns only pain and more pain.
    O Nanak, the filthy ones become clean only when they meet and surrender to the True Guru. ||1||


    Guru Shabad:
    slok mÚ 3 ]
    Awqmw dyau pUjIAY gur kY shij suBwie ]
    Awqmy no Awqmy dI pRqIiq hoie qw Gr hI prcw pwie ]
    Awqmw Afolu n foleI gur kY Bwie suBwie ]
    gur ivxu shju n AwveI loBu mYlu n ivchu jwie ]
    iKnu plu hir nwmu min vsY sB ATsiT qIrQ nwie ]
    scy mYlu n lgeI mlu lwgY dUjY Bwie ]
    DoqI mUil n auqrY jy ATsiT qIrQ nwie ]
    mnmuK krm kry AhMkwrI sBu duKo duKu kmwie ]
    nwnk mYlw aUjlu qw QIAY jw siqgur mwih smwie ]1]
     
  13. Archived_Member1

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    i've also found myself really attracted to Guru Ram Das's way of writing... even if i don't understand all of the punjabi, it just has such beautiful flow to it... it's a joy to read.

    "So Purakh" was the first part of Rehras sahib that i memorized. not on purpose, mind you... i just couldn't get it out of my head. :)
     
  14. Sardara123

    Sardara123
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    Guru Ji says:

    English Translation:

    Kaanraa, Fifth Mehl, Fourth House:
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
    The one who bows in humble reverence to the Primal Lord, the Lord of all beings
    - I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to such a Guru; He Himself is liberated, and He carries me across as well. ||1||Pause||
    Which, which, which of Your Glorious Virtues should I chant? There is no end or limitation to them.
    There are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, many millions of them, but those who contemplate them are very rare. ||1||
    I am wonder-struck, wonder-struck, wonder-struck and amazed, dyed in the deep crimson color of my Beloved.
    Says Nanak, the Saints savor this sublime essence, like the mute, who tastes the sweet candy, but only smiles. ||2||1||20||
    source: SikhiToTheMax


    Guru Shabad:
    kwnVw mhlw 5 Gru 4
    <> siqgur pRswid ]
    nwrwien nrpiq nmskwrY ]
    AYsy gur kau bil bil jweIAY Awip mukqu moih qwrY ]1] rhwau ]
    kvn kvn kvn gun khIAY AMqu nhI kCu pwrY ]
    lwK lwK lwK keI korY ko hY AYso bIcwrY ]1]
    ibsm ibsm ibsm hI BeI hY lwl gulwl rMgwrY ]
    khu nwnk sMqn rsu AweI hY ijau cwiK gUMgw muskwrY ]2]1]20]
     

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