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God is All, God is in All; The Cake or the Sugar in the Cake?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Harry Haller, Aug 10, 2015.

  1. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Can you tell us how this happens, do you expect this to happen in your lifetime, or at death?

    Can we know it fully? or will we only be able to know it partially?

    Well we are not actually sure it says that, we are relying on a translation

    Can you see different to me?

    I find that a very strange interpretation, I would concede God is present in everything, but is everything God?

    A whiskey cake may have whiskey in it, but the whiskey cake is not whiskey

    written like that, it makes a good argument, but lets change it slightly,
    If everything has god inside it, then it is the level of connection, that dictates who is true or false.

    Personally I could not care less, I find this desperation to see the full picture no different to the desperation to own a new Mercedes.
     
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  3. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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    i no longer look further than the present moment...i am only alive in the present moment...therefore i seek to know the full truth as something that can be experienced first hand whilst i am a live and kicking...god willing..



    well, what i know now, i didn't in the past...and i don't yet know what else is in store :)



    i guess i compare what i experienced to what i read in Gurbani...some things just match very well




    i have no idea what you see...other than some descriptions you place on this forum...



    i would say Gurbani makes it very clear, everything is God...there is only God...the nirgun and Sargun...that includes our bodies...what we can see...and the hidden unseen...hence Gurbani telling us (our minds) to seek within...

    think you got that the wrong way...God is the cake..there is only one cake...we and everything else are the crumbs...the Ego we carry allows the crumbs to manifest and have an independent experience...running around questioning the existence of the cake...backstabbing one another...fighting, competing...etc etc...the mind allows God to have an experience of itself...through itself...an illusion of the many...when there is only actually only the one..

    of course some crumbs follow the guidance of the cake to clean up the mind...reduce the effects of the Ego...and the crumb starts to feel connected to the whole again...starts to remember what it actually is...the awakening...the simran...the remembering.



    i see it like above...we are within the whole..not the other way...but yes, the connection is important...the simran...the remembering, the feeling of the whole..whilst the Ego provides the experience of the indovidual...you...me...

    Ego is our route to having this experience...only problem...when it hardens...the world falls apart and me and you, and everyone else work to be higher, better, richer than the other...the boundaried between us are rigid...mental boundaries that manifest as physical boundaries...blacks vs whites...this is my garden...don;t step on it...my kids are better than yours...etc etc...

    the softer the ego, and me and you, well, we work together, support each other, for the sucess of each other...i see you as no different to me...because you are no different to me...we are one...literally...



    so it's the desperation you have an issue with? i don;t get what you're saying here harry ji?

    surely it's what you're desperate for that defines you? that tells a story about you...

    nonetheless, its not desperation...for me anyway...
    Gurbani tells me there is more to my existence that meets the eye...i just happen to want to know what that is....nothing more than scientists wanting to see whats on the dark side of the moon...or what exists on the surface of pluto
     
    #2 chazSingh, Aug 10, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
  4. Original

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    importance of which is that we both "graft" and hold our head high as members of a civil society. It is not who you are, but what you do that defines the real you.

    We're all human beings at the end of the day, its our experiences and dispositions that navigates us to our true home -spiritual. The wider meaning to "sachiar" is debateable and in some respects subjective. Everyone is a sachiar in Nanak's house.
    Depends how you see God - I see everything as God and evolution part n parcel thereof, working to better the human. The language, style, metaphor, subject-matter and its various forms of expression used by gur ghar is a mean to an end - the end being good, great, beautiful, just God.
    The God in "us" is concerned and is casting a glance and would do all it can to bring the perpetrators to justice .
     
  5. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Strange when unlike indic mythology and semitic schools and pre-destined puni paapi philosophy, gurmat God has already bestowed His divine treasure to each individual 'nanak likhiya naal' then where is the room for casting angry glance especially when God is laws of nature and it is we who revolt against laws of nature and not God.
     
  6. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    so, just as an education, are you saying that the people around you are irrelevant? If you look only at the present moment, to me, that means you have no future planned, you have no interest in the future, I don't know if you have kids, but how does that affect them, do you intend to have kids? I assume that this path is more important than the ties that keep most people?


    this is at odds with the message I get, as a side expedition, it works well, knowing yourself, in my view, is vitally important, but where is the caution to those that make it an obsession, where it becomes the priority, the journey itself?


    no, I am pretty sure I knew what I was saying, its quite simple, but I can put it in another way if it is easier, a cup may contain scotch, but that is what it is, a cup that contains scotch, it will never be scotch, so we all have god within us, but that does not make us god, in fact, the best one can hope for is connection, you have your methods, I have mine, but I am under no illusion that I am mostly surrounded by those that are not and make little effort at any connection. Present company excepted of course.


    I guess when you have an agenda, things get blurred, I consider myself agenda less, could you say the same?

    I am not desperate for anything, what are you desperate for? whats your story?
     
  7. chazSingh

    chazSingh United Kingdom
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    not quite sure where you got the idea that i think people around me are irrelevant lol Gurbani is my anchor...it tells me to lead a normal life...but to stamp on the 5 thieves so that i become a more truthful, trustworthy member of society. but on a personal level...Gurbani says God is within you...if you seek Waheguru, look within...which to me sounds very personal...well initially anyway...but i guess if you find what you're looking for within...you then understand what is within everyone else...would that result in a better me? would i interact with the world differently knowing (and i mean really knowing...not just saying it) what i am, and what everyone else is..all being God...

    i don;t have kids...maybe one day..guess i will know when i'm ready..
    live, enjoy my hobbies and interests....work, learn...spend money....eat little...sleep little...and anything that is left over money wise...share a little save the rest.

    do i plan what car i want next....what type of house i want to work towards...nope...but my wife does...it doesn't help with her anxiety....she thinks i'm the strange one....

    my current house needs working on...and i'm enjoying the challenge of getting it all done...the present day is more important..

    if anything changes...then when that moment arrives...then financially anything i have saved due to eating less...sleeping less...and living a simpler life...i'll have something to fall back on if needed...or finances to buy a car when my current car packs in :) or a bigger house if my kids keep running into walls...

    do i sit around worrying about these things...setting targets....nope...not any more...
    not saying this is right or wrong...just how i've become...

    the path is not more important that the ties within life...
    the ties are part of the path....they move you a long the path...it is not one or the other...just like anything in life you can set priorities...

    you go through all your life being told what is, and how to do things, and what the limits are to our existence....then you open up gurbani...and it shatters it all...saying "yo dude...this is not the whole truth...believe me...do you want to know what the majority of the world doesn't? " ... then its up to the person reading to decide if they want to or not...a choice we make..


    you see one way...i see another...maybe we're both correct

    when i read Gurbani, this is what i see:

    God is the ocean...he says "hey...here i am as wave number 1....and there i am as wave number 2...and so on" ... depending on how hard ones Ego has developed, the wave either feels and understand what it really is (self realization and as a result God realization)...or the boundary is clearly defined and set hard...and the wave questions the existence of the ocean and cannot comprehend that there is only One...the mind and its ego fights for its independant existence...an existence to compete..to win...the be better that the rest...for its survival..

    why use the word agenda?
    i'm told something...and i doing the experiment to find out...its that simple....what agenda is there? does a scientist have an agenda when deciding to see what happens when two different chemicals are mixed? or is he/she just interested in finding out what happens?

    not desperate....just interested, excited, wonder struck at knowing there is more to this who shizzle than i ever expected...
     

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