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Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

There is an instance in Bhangus book that Tat Khalsa forced Bandais to eat meat after they became to much sticky with veggi issue and by this way they reconverted them to Tat Khalsa.

In present context this may not be OK at all.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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This "meat Thing" is the most successful SABOTAGE of GURMATT by the Bippar enemy.....only next to Raagmala adulteration of SGGs and the Bachittra natak granth chameleon morphing into Dasam granth..the SOONER we get rid of these KANDEHs in our flesh..the sooner we will be rid of this pain.... this utter RUBBISH ahs so much permeated into the Fabric of Sikhi that it is so difficult to remove it..but removal is going on..slowly but surely..as EDUCATION replaces Andha wishwaash !! Gurbani as it is UNDERSTOOD will remove all doubt...Mitee DHUND jagg channan hoya..will happen again....GURBANI will Never LOSE out to FRAUD and LIES

Gyani jarnail Singh
 

sikh78910

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Oct 10, 2006
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Alrighttt people, very sorry if i offended anyone! I am looking at these articles in a different way, u guys definitly put up a good argument! but at any rate i guess i was just trying to persude people against eating meat which was wrong of me, people should do it for their own reasons, i know.

id now like to eat my words and apologize.

but i do stick with the point that the butcher of an animal can adopt the mindset of a cold blooded killer because of the whole baby clinging to the mother thing, which ive seen happen in a farm a long time ago! i really do think thats cold.

i ate meat until a year ago- and i cant personally relate to butchering cos ive never done it- meat for me was ham in a packet, or sausages in a packet- quorn looks exactly the same to me.

My reasons for not eating meat are completely deifferent so im very sorry. im not going to share my reasons with u all though cos theyre very personal- to do with my own personal sikhi journey, but have almost nothing to do with the information ive given, even though those pictures made me queasy! lol.

sorry again if i came across as an rss agent or something! i hate them....
 

sikh78910

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Oct 10, 2006
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And im sooo sorry if i came across to be twisting baniii! thats the last thing i would ever want to do- i just interpreted everything differently i guess. there should be no barriers between people that eat meat and those that dont- we are all sikh and on the journey and its about personal choice, just like cutting hair. everyone has their own different interpretations, and if you pray and truly love god, who am i to judge whether one eats meat or impose views that are probably those of corrupted individuals anyway, i ate it every day until a ear ago myself!

again i am sooo SORRY! and please ignore my first post a few pages back!

Sikh.
 

Randip Singh

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Alrighttt people, very sorry if i offended anyone! I am looking at these articles in a different way, u guys definitly put up a good argument! but at any rate i guess i was just trying to persude people against eating meat which was wrong of me, people should do it for their own reasons, i know.

id now like to eat my words and apologize.

but i do stick with the point that the butcher of an animal can adopt the mindset of a cold blooded killer because of the whole baby clinging to the mother thing, which ive seen happen in a farm a long time ago! i really do think thats cold.

i ate meat until a year ago- and i cant personally relate to butchering cos ive never done it- meat for me was ham in a packet, or sausages in a packet- quorn looks exactly the same to me.

My reasons for not eating meat are completely deifferent so im very sorry. im not going to share my reasons with u all though cos theyre very personal- to do with my own personal sikhi journey, but have almost nothing to do with the information ive given, even though those pictures made me queasy! lol.

sorry again if i came across as an rss agent or something! i hate them....

Brother I respect your personal reasons for not eating meat.....but as Guru Nanak says, that alone will not help your spiritual journey.

Adolf Hitler a vegetarian, butchered millions...........so diet really is not an idea of what cruelty a man can do.

Recently in the UK.....animal rights people sent out leaflets to neighbours of a scientist who worked at a lab that experimented on animals...........these leaflets stated this family man was a paedohile..............this was totally untrue.......this meant the man had to move from his area.....the people who sent them claimed to protect animals yet they were so cruel to their fellow man......

....also another incident where the people who owned a farm that reared animals for exepriments were terrorised.........they had the body of their Grandmother dug up from her grave and stolen......again by people who claimed to protect animal rights and were vegetarian......

I don't think cruelty is linked to profession or diet.............thats my opinion..........you may disagree.
 

sikh78910

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hello all, if anyone could please provide me with information on why meat is not served in the gurudwarra and whether this has always been the case, it woud be much appreciated!

and also articles on whether or not the stress of an animal can be tranferred to a human by consumption and may affect the effectiveness of meditation.

thankyou again.

Sikh.
 

sikh78910

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Oct 10, 2006
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Brother I respect your personal reasons for not eating meat.....but as Guru Nanak says, that alone will not help your spiritual journey.

Adolf Hitler a vegetarian, butchered millions...........so diet really is not an idea of what cruelty a man can do.

Recently in the UK.....animal rights people sent out leaflets to neighbours of a scientist who worked at a lab that experimented on animals...........these leaflets stated this family man was a paedohile..............this was totally untrue.......this meant the man had to move from his area.....the people who sent them claimed to protect animals yet they were so cruel to their fellow man......

....also another incident where the people who owned a farm that reared animals for exepriments were terrorised.........they had the body of their Grandmother dug up from her grave and stolen......again by people who claimed to protect animal rights and were vegetarian......

I don't think cruelty is linked to profession or diet.............thats my opinion..........you may disagree

thankyou, however i do believe 100% that it will help in my spiritual journey, i have had very different expereinces to most other sikh people i know my reasoning is very diefferent and predominantly to do with the spiritual side of things, not moral. it is just very difficult to explain my reasoning as it is not scientific.

i definitly understand that a meat diet is not linked to cruelty, however i do, as i stated before believe that in many cases, (mainly those of muslims who watch animals suffer as they kill them slowly) of animal slaughter, that mercy is indeed evaporated and cold blooded murder of any animal can seem like nothing in comparison. one that kills any large living animal without mercy can easily adopt a murderous mindset and capibility to kill ANY living being in cold blood!

hope to hear from anyone who can provide some of the information in my post above soon!

Sikh.
 

kds1980

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hello all, if anyone could please provide me with information on why meat is not served in the gurudwarra and whether this has always been the case, it woud be much appreciated!

and also articles on whether or not the stress of an animal can be tranferred to a human by consumption and may affect the effectiveness of meditation.

thankyou again.

Sikh.

the main reaoson why meat is not served is the following
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WHY MEAT IS NOT SERVED IN LANGAR

The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat together in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal.
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according to some sikh historians meat was served in langar at the time of
guru angad dev ji

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Commenting on meat being served in the langar during the time of Guru Angad: However, it is strange that now-a-days in the Community-Kitchen attached to the Sikh temples, and called the Guru's Kitchen (or, Guru-ka-langar) meat-dishes are not served at all. May be, it is on account of its being, perhaps, expensive, or not easy to keep for long. Or, perhaps the Vaishnava tradition is too strong to be shaken off.
A History of the Sikh People by Dr. Gopal Singh, World Sikh University Press, Delhi
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anyway there are some gurudwaras that still serve meat.i want to show you one of the post of mr.vijaydeep singh who is one of the most knowledgeable
on this site.you can directly ask question regarding this.
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vijaydeep Singh
SPN Sewadaar
Enrollment No. 313


Location: world


Re: Meat and eggs.
Gurfateh

Das recomends akamjbalar Ji to visit Hajur Sahib.

Or say in Gurudwaras associted by Nihungs,Afgahan Sikhs or say lower caste converts.

Das has taken Langer of meat and rice once in marraige of Sevadar of Gurudwara who was from Sindh,in west UP village.He offered das that Amrit Dharis sometimes are veggies so if Das could be served with Dal roti.Das told him to serve what is in Langer for all.

Next thing is that there is a concept of Dale Da Prasad (pork)or Mahaprasad (muttan)in Nihungs.

So it is a newr thing not much old that in general Gurudwaras meat is not served while as such in traditonal ones it is still served.
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Randip Singh

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i definitly understand that a meat diet is not linked to cruelty, however i do, as i stated before believe that in many cases, (mainly those of muslims who watch animals suffer as they kill them slowly) of animal slaughter, that mercy is indeed evaporated and cold blooded murder of any animal can seem like nothing in comparison. one that kills any large living animal without mercy can easily adopt a murderous mindset and capibility to kill ANY living being in cold blood!

This mindset that a butcher must be muderous and have a murderous mindset is at odds with Sikhism. Here are 3 reasons why:

1) Bhagat Sadana - A Butcher - his Bani is included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji yet he killed animals for food for people as a job. His words and compassion are without equal.

2) Bhagar Ravidas - A Skinner by profession who would kill animals for their leather to make various implements. Again his words of wisdom are prfound and included in Bani.

3) Shaikh Farid - A Muslim who observed the Muslim rituals, including that of Eid where an animal would be sacrificed to Allah.......his Bani and words of wisdom are included in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

There are others too - so to say one kills animals for profession or food does not have spiritual merit is a nonsense.

Regards
 

sikh78910

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Oct 10, 2006
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thankyou very much for the valuable information kds ji, i had no idea about any of that!

randip singh ji,

i understand where u are coming from, however if you re-read my post i think you'll find that i used the words "many"(not all) and "can"(as in could) regarding the issue. i am not saying that all butchers would adopt this mindset, im saying that it is definitly a posssibilty, especially in those that are not religious. i would never expect butchers that are religious, such as the ones you mentioned and especially those that held the company of the gurus, to have this evil mindset because they were true believers and lovers of the Divine One and spread this love, not hatred and evil. just as you will find many sehjdharis (or moneh) who are widely discriminated against and people who do not appear to be religious or have previously committed bad deeds but who also hold much love in their hearts ready to give their lives for religion.


Just as alcohol can potentially corrupt the mind and sanity of almost any human being, cold blooded murder and especially the murder of animals in the muslim way-watching an animal suffer such a long, painful and pointless death, which was so frowned upon by our gurus and VERY much preached against, can potentially corrupt the mind and soul.
 

Randip Singh

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thankyou very much for the valuable information kds ji, i had no idea about any of that!

randip singh ji,

i understand where u are coming from, however if you re-read my post i think you'll find that i used the words "many"(not all) and "can"(as in could) regarding the issue. i am not saying that all butchers would adopt this mindset, im saying that it is definitly a posssibilty, especially in those that are not religious. i would never expect butchers that are religious, such as the ones you mentioned and especially those that held the company of the gurus, to have this evil mindset because they were true believers and lovers of the Divine One and spread this love, not hatred and evil. just as you will find many sehjdharis (or moneh) who are widely discriminated against and people who do not appear to be religious or have previously committed bad deeds but who also hold much love in their hearts ready to give their lives for religion.

I think what you are trying to say is that torturing of animals can make people corrupt....am I wrong or right?

This is the argument Vivisection people used against scientists who do experiments on animals to develop new medicines. What these Vivisection people did ineffect was torture human beings in order to prevent what they saw as "torture" to animals.

I don't think what you are saying is as straight forward as that.

Just as alcohol can potentially corrupt the mind and sanity of almost any human being, cold blooded murder and especially the murder of animals in the muslim way-watching an animal suffer such a long, painful and pointless death, which was so frowned upon by our gurus and VERY much preached against, can potentially corrupt the mind and soul.

Alcohol is contained in most medicines....yet we drink them......surely they do not corrupt? Alcohol misuse is what our Guru's talked about. Those people who need to escape reality by using alcohol.....in the same way an ascetic withdraws from society and lives in the jungle...........escaping from society and hence reality.

I think someone who is sadistic does not need any particular profession.............people who are obsessed with Kaam, Krodh, Moh, Lobh and Hankaar are capable of incredible cruelty............i have witnessed fights between "Sikhs" in temples of uptmost savagery...............not one person is a butcher there.................these people are afflicted with the 5 thieves.

It is the 5 thieves you should be concerntrating on.....rather than any particular profession like butchery. The human being can be surrounded by corruption yet not corrupt himself/herself....so long as the 5 thieves are controlled.
 

sikh78910

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The human being can be surrounded by corruption yet not corrupt himself/herself....so long as the 5 thieves are controlled.

hi,

i completely agree with this point, however there are also human beings that cannot control the 5 thieves. some are are strong enough, some are not....its life! thats all im trying to say....

there is so much in this world that can potentially turn a weak person to commit bad deeds, cold butchery, especially of halal meat, is just one of them....

true that someone who is sadistic does not need a paticular profession, but one who is not sadistic in the first place can easily turn that way due to external influences, again such is the nature of life. noone is born sadistic, we are all god loving and pure in the womb.....its maya and external influences that makes people change and clouds the common sense and amazing love for waheguru that we are all born with...
 

Randip Singh

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hi,



there is so much in this world that can potentially turn a weak person to commit bad deeds, cold butchery, especially of halal meat, is just one of them....

Hi Sikh,

The issue surrounding Halaal is often misinterpreted as that to do with cruelty. It is not.

The issue that the Guru's had with Halaal (and for that matter Bali [Hindu Sacrifice] and Kosher [Jewish sacrifice]) was that is was a sacrifice.

I think Bhagat Kabir says in one of verses about "Halal-ing" the chicken and only killing the clay. For Muslims the act of Halaal is a form of sacrifice to God........in this way you are making a sacrifice to God..........you are ineffect trying to appease God.

What the Guru's say is that this is a futile gesture, of appeasement (Halaal/Bismil) because God created that animal so why are you offering it back to him. God controls the life in everything and gives and talkes it away.........so by sacrificing the chicken you are not offering God its life, but merely its shell.

Bali which is Hindu animal sacrifice to God and Kosher, which is Jewish animal sacrifice are the same.

Sikh's see such animal sacrifice as futile....they will achieve nothing. This is nothing to do with cruelty.

If you want to talk about cruelty, then riding horses in races from which they get injured exhausted, damage backs etc are far more cruel than any slaughter. Keeping birds caged or in zoo's is prolonged torture. Keeping cows to pull plough's and act as beasts of burden is tortous on animals. Man has forced his/her will on these animals in this way and gives them prolonged suffering.

So this issue is not about the actuall killing, but actually about the ritual and sacrifice.

PS on a side note, I find Hallal sacrifice distasteful and something that is very medieval in nature.
 

kds1980

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If you want to talk about cruelty, then riding horses in races from which they get injured exhausted, damage backs etc are far more cruel than any slaughter. Keeping birds caged or in zoo's is prolonged torture. Keeping cows to pull plough's and act as beasts of burden is tortous on animals. Man has forced his/her will on these animals in this way and gives them prolonged suffering

very well said.using animals or animal products in any form is also very much cruel but majority of people have mentality that meat is the only thing that. is cruel
in india people who don't eat meat shift their demand to milk products .so one form of cruelity changes to another. they just fool themself.
 

Randip Singh

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very well said.using animals or animal products in any form is also very much cruel but majority of people have mentality that meat is the only thing that. is cruel
in india people who don't eat meat shift their demand to milk products .so one form of cruelity changes to another. they just fool themself.

We humans are great at practicing duality or hypocrasy (as we call it). We constantly try and fool ourselves into thinking because we are not doing such and such we are not cruel.

The Jain will go to the extreme length of tieing a cloth infront of the mouth and watching everywhere he she walks to avoid killing...............this in effect prevents them from living life........they get so caught up in this quest for unnecessary cruelty they forget their duty as a human being to fellow human beings.............and that is where the real cruelty lies......in the way we treat each other.
 

kds1980

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We humans are great at practicing duality or hypocrasy (as we call it). We constantly try and fool ourselves into thinking because we are not doing such and such we are not cruel.

yeh its true .most people lack basic understanding on this subject.according to them a goat which is quickly slaughtered is cruel but a cow that is tied in tight shed forced to produce as much milk as she can and then thrown on road eating polythene bag dieing a slow painful death is sacred who is happily
giving her milk just like a disney cartoon.i found a great article on this subject by a hindu on net

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHILOSOPHY OF GITA AND ECONOMICS OF COW AND OTHER DOMESTIC ANIMALS

This most controversial article challenges the common Hindu belief that considers cow as a holy animal.




"For the death of him who is born is certain ; and the rebirth of him who is dead is inevitable. It does not, therefore, behove you to grieve over an inevitable event." (Verse 27, Chapter 2, Srimad Bhagavad-Gita)

Lord Krishna says that it is wrong to grieve about death since death is like a change of clothes. Soul gives up its old clothes and takes on new ones. Focussing on life and accepting death as an integral part of life - is the essence of Gita which applies to every aspect of human life. It is this philosophy that enabled Krishna to be an animal-lover and yet be a good hunter. Understanding the philosophy of Gita is necessary to comprehend animal-rearing.

In the field of animal rearing Consumption and Protection are two sides of the same coin. One who consumes is the one who protects and vice-versa. Muslims in India sacrifice goats at the time of Eid-ul-zuha and consume the meat. The other facet of this is that Muslims feed and take care of a goat for a full year or alternatively pay a big sum to one who has taken care of the sacrificial goat. On the other hand there are Jains who do not eat meat and do nothing to rear or take care of goats. India is the largest consumer of goat meat in the world and India has the largest goat population in the world. Pakistan does not consume pig-meat and it has almost no pigs. During the past thirty years the consumption of eggs and chicken in India has increased almost tenfold. This has led to the poultry industry getting a big boost and there has been an unprecedented increase in the population of hens. It will not be an exaggeration to say that if mankind stopped consuming eggs and chicken completely, hen as a species may vanish from the surface of earth.

Cow is considered sacred and is worshipped in India while in adjoining Pakistan there are no such beliefs. Yet, when a cow dies in India, its average carcass weight is just about 103 Kg and in Pakistan the average carcass weight is about 185 Kg. The figure for USA and Germany is about 315 Kg. In other words, cows in India are not butchered but are tortured to a slow and painful death by hunger. A foolish interpretation of DHARMA (loosely translated as duty or religion) has led some Indians to oppose cow slaughter leading to a situation where cows are neither cared for nor protected. A refusal to accept death of cow has made life hell for cow. Moving stray on roads Indian cow is forced to eat polythene bags and die a painful death. All talks of non-violence and pity by religious leaders sound nice but cannot give the essential ingredients of life to Indian cows.

Milk Production in India has increased considerably during the past three decades after National Dairy Development Board launched Operation Flood. Yet, the per capita availability of milk in India in 1997 was just about 58.5 Kg per annum. The corresponding figure for Pakistan is 116.3 Kg, Germany - 238.8 Kg, Russia - 145.1 Kg, USA - 251.3 Kg. Some persons may be surprised that the per capita availability of milk in India is just about half of that in Pakistan though economically Pakistan is almost in the same bracket as India. The misguided orthodox zealots who oppose all mechanized slaughter houses and meat exports often argue that continuous slaughtering of progeny of cows will lead to elimination of cows and bulls from the country causing a milk famine. The fact is just opposite - the countries that consume cow-meat have substantially higher milk availability.

The economics of animal rearing is based on milk as well as meat. Whenever any cow or buffalo gives birth, there is an almost equal probability of a male or female calf. A dairy farmer rears a female calf in expectation of milk, while a male is reared for either meat or for use as a draught animal. It is the combined economics of milk, meat and harness that makes investments possible in dairy industry. If any of the three pillars is disturbed, the economics of dairy industry is badly affected. In most developed countries, there is no use of animal in harness but demand for meat helps balance the economics of dairy industry. In ancient India, extensive use of bullocks as draught animals made dairy farming viable even without the use of meat. In modern India, on one hand, subsidies on electricity for farming, tractors, diesel etc. have eliminated the need to use animals for ploughing and carriage of goods. On the other hand, a plethora of restrictions on bovine meat have effectively prevented Indian dairy farmers from getting a reasonable price for bovine meat. This has rendered male bovine animals completely useless thereby affecting the economics and growth of the Indian dairy industry.

India exports almost ten million tonnes of de-oiled cakes every year to countries like Pakistan, Iran, Thailand, Korea, Japan etc. who have a better developed dairy industry. De-oiled cakes are rich in proteins and are primarily used as ingredient for animalfeed. In addition to causing protein deficiency in an impoverished country like India, export of de-oiled cakes disturbs the Nitrogen cycle of nature causing the soil to lose fertility. Animals perform a useful ecological function by consuming non-edible nitrogenous matter like cellulose and de-oiled cakes. Faecal matter of animals completes the nitrogen cycle and enriches the soil. In the absence of sufficiently large number of animals, agriculture starts losing its long term viability. Hence, it is necessary that the economics of Indian dairy farming is strengthened so that Indian de-oiled cakes can be fed to Indian animals which are essential pre-requisite for maintaining soil fertility over the long term.

Cowdung also plays a minor albeit important role in dairy economics. Heavy subsidies on chemical fertilizers have reduced the demand for cowdung. This has made it impossible for any dairy farmer to feed a non-milking cow.

Dairy industry plays a vital role in the agro-based economics of India. Strengthening dairy industry is essential for removing poverty of the large majority of Indian population which is living even today in rural areas. The three pillars of dairy farming economics - Milk, Meat and Use in Harness - need to be strengthened. Just as National Dairy Development Board has done commendable work in the field of milk, there is an urgent need for similar work in the field of meat. Government of India should set a target to eliminate exports of de-oiled cakes in the next five to ten years. Subsidies on tractors, diesel, farm-use-electricity, chemical fertilizers should be gradually eliminated. Use of mineral fuel based vehicles should be banned in certain dense areas of cities and in such areas only human and animal powered vehicles should be permitted. This will not only increase utility of animals in harness but will also help reduce pollution in Indian city centres that have become almost inhabitable. Use of modern technology should be promoted in animal powered vehicles.

Hindu religion is based on "SANATAN" truths - facts and principles that have always been true and shall always be. It was this understanding of SANATAN truth that led the Lord Shiva who is known as a God of destruction being also called Lord PASHUPATINATH, the deity that is the owner and protector of all animals. Shiva family caries with it a symbolism that illustrates the concept of mutual dependence of beings for food and other needs. The vehicle of Shiva is a bullock while his wife Parvati's vehicle is a lion who preys on bullock. Shiva's son Ganesha moves around on a rat while snakes (who eat rats) hang around the neck of Lord Shiva. On the other hand snakes are devoured by pea{censored} which is the vehicle of Shiva's other son Kartik. Cycle of nature is based on such mutual dependence and mutual checks & balances. One who understands this cycle and does not get disturbed by death is a wise man. He accepts death as a necessary routine. Commitments towards life rather than concerns about death are the guiding principles for all his actions. DHARMA (loosely translated as duty or religion) is not in avoiding death nor is it in fearing death nor is it in worrying about or grieving over death. Life and living life is DHARMA. If moved by the fears of death non-violence weakens life and if violence accepts death to eventually strengthen life, then violence is DHARMA and non-violence is ADHARMA (antonym or antitheses of DHARMA). This is the philosophy of Gita and this is the way of upliftment of any society.

Hindu religion takes a holistic view of life and Hindu vision is free of any pre-conceived biases. Weakening society in the name of mercy, pity or non-violence is ADHARMA and not DHARMA in the eyes of Hindu philosophy. Cow is sacred and has an important place in Indian social and economic life. Yet, no one is above the overall interests of society and DHARMA. Lord Krishna asked Arjuna to kill his own brethren and beloved because that was the DHARMA at that time. Similarly in today's situation giving up the opposition to cow slaughter is indeed in accordance with DHARMA. Hindus must realize that enriching the life of bovine and other useful animals is DHARMA. Making efforts to build a healthy and large population of cattle in India is DHRAMA. On the path of DHARMA, a wise man is not perturbed by death since he knows that soul is immortal - "Weapons cannot cut it nor can fire burn it ; water cannot drench it nor can wind make it dry." (Verse 23, Chapter 2, Srimad Bhagavad-Gita)

(Statistics quoted above are courtesy Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations)
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so you see not allowing cow slaughter is not only hurting indian economy
but also hurting farmers and also giving cows slow and painful death.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
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May 25, 2005
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yeh its true .most people lack basic understanding on this subject.according to them a goat which is quickly slaughtered is cruel but a cow that is tied in tight shed forced to produce as much milk as she can and then thrown on road eating polythene bag dieing a slow painful death is sacred who is happily
giving her milk just like a disney cartoon.i found a great article on this subject by a hindu on net

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHILOSOPHY OF GITA AND ECONOMICS OF COW AND OTHER DOMESTIC ANIMALS

This most controversial article challenges the common Hindu belief that considers cow as a holy animal.




"For the death of him who is born is certain ; and the rebirth of him who is dead is inevitable. It does not, therefore, behove you to grieve over an inevitable event." (Verse 27, Chapter 2, Srimad Bhagavad-Gita)

Lord Krishna says that it is wrong to grieve about death since death is like a change of clothes. Soul gives up its old clothes and takes on new ones. Focussing on life and accepting death as an integral part of life - is the essence of Gita which applies to every aspect of human life. It is this philosophy that enabled Krishna to be an animal-lover and yet be a good hunter. Understanding the philosophy of Gita is necessary to comprehend animal-rearing.

In the field of animal rearing Consumption and Protection are two sides of the same coin. One who consumes is the one who protects and vice-versa. Muslims in India sacrifice goats at the time of Eid-ul-zuha and consume the meat. The other facet of this is that Muslims feed and take care of a goat for a full year or alternatively pay a big sum to one who has taken care of the sacrificial goat. On the other hand there are Jains who do not eat meat and do nothing to rear or take care of goats. India is the largest consumer of goat meat in the world and India has the largest goat population in the world. Pakistan does not consume pig-meat and it has almost no pigs. During the past thirty years the consumption of eggs and chicken in India has increased almost tenfold. This has led to the poultry industry getting a big boost and there has been an unprecedented increase in the population of hens. It will not be an exaggeration to say that if mankind stopped consuming eggs and chicken completely, hen as a species may vanish from the surface of earth.

Cow is considered sacred and is worshipped in India while in adjoining Pakistan there are no such beliefs. Yet, when a cow dies in India, its average carcass weight is just about 103 Kg and in Pakistan the average carcass weight is about 185 Kg. The figure for USA and Germany is about 315 Kg. In other words, cows in India are not butchered but are tortured to a slow and painful death by hunger. A foolish interpretation of DHARMA (loosely translated as duty or religion) has led some Indians to oppose cow slaughter leading to a situation where cows are neither cared for nor protected. A refusal to accept death of cow has made life hell for cow. Moving stray on roads Indian cow is forced to eat polythene bags and die a painful death. All talks of non-violence and pity by religious leaders sound nice but cannot give the essential ingredients of life to Indian cows.

Milk Production in India has increased considerably during the past three decades after National Dairy Development Board launched Operation Flood. Yet, the per capita availability of milk in India in 1997 was just about 58.5 Kg per annum. The corresponding figure for Pakistan is 116.3 Kg, Germany - 238.8 Kg, Russia - 145.1 Kg, USA - 251.3 Kg. Some persons may be surprised that the per capita availability of milk in India is just about half of that in Pakistan though economically Pakistan is almost in the same bracket as India. The misguided orthodox zealots who oppose all mechanized slaughter houses and meat exports often argue that continuous slaughtering of progeny of cows will lead to elimination of cows and bulls from the country causing a milk famine. The fact is just opposite - the countries that consume cow-meat have substantially higher milk availability.

The economics of animal rearing is based on milk as well as meat. Whenever any cow or buffalo gives birth, there is an almost equal probability of a male or female calf. A dairy farmer rears a female calf in expectation of milk, while a male is reared for either meat or for use as a draught animal. It is the combined economics of milk, meat and harness that makes investments possible in dairy industry. If any of the three pillars is disturbed, the economics of dairy industry is badly affected. In most developed countries, there is no use of animal in harness but demand for meat helps balance the economics of dairy industry. In ancient India, extensive use of bullocks as draught animals made dairy farming viable even without the use of meat. In modern India, on one hand, subsidies on electricity for farming, tractors, diesel etc. have eliminated the need to use animals for ploughing and carriage of goods. On the other hand, a plethora of restrictions on bovine meat have effectively prevented Indian dairy farmers from getting a reasonable price for bovine meat. This has rendered male bovine animals completely useless thereby affecting the economics and growth of the Indian dairy industry.

India exports almost ten million tonnes of de-oiled cakes every year to countries like Pakistan, Iran, Thailand, Korea, Japan etc. who have a better developed dairy industry. De-oiled cakes are rich in proteins and are primarily used as ingredient for animalfeed. In addition to causing protein deficiency in an impoverished country like India, export of de-oiled cakes disturbs the Nitrogen cycle of nature causing the soil to lose fertility. Animals perform a useful ecological function by consuming non-edible nitrogenous matter like cellulose and de-oiled cakes. Faecal matter of animals completes the nitrogen cycle and enriches the soil. In the absence of sufficiently large number of animals, agriculture starts losing its long term viability. Hence, it is necessary that the economics of Indian dairy farming is strengthened so that Indian de-oiled cakes can be fed to Indian animals which are essential pre-requisite for maintaining soil fertility over the long term.

Cowdung also plays a minor albeit important role in dairy economics. Heavy subsidies on chemical fertilizers have reduced the demand for cowdung. This has made it impossible for any dairy farmer to feed a non-milking cow.

Dairy industry plays a vital role in the agro-based economics of India. Strengthening dairy industry is essential for removing poverty of the large majority of Indian population which is living even today in rural areas. The three pillars of dairy farming economics - Milk, Meat and Use in Harness - need to be strengthened. Just as National Dairy Development Board has done commendable work in the field of milk, there is an urgent need for similar work in the field of meat. Government of India should set a target to eliminate exports of de-oiled cakes in the next five to ten years. Subsidies on tractors, diesel, farm-use-electricity, chemical fertilizers should be gradually eliminated. Use of mineral fuel based vehicles should be banned in certain dense areas of cities and in such areas only human and animal powered vehicles should be permitted. This will not only increase utility of animals in harness but will also help reduce pollution in Indian city centres that have become almost inhabitable. Use of modern technology should be promoted in animal powered vehicles.

Hindu religion is based on "SANATAN" truths - facts and principles that have always been true and shall always be. It was this understanding of SANATAN truth that led the Lord Shiva who is known as a God of destruction being also called Lord PASHUPATINATH, the deity that is the owner and protector of all animals. Shiva family caries with it a symbolism that illustrates the concept of mutual dependence of beings for food and other needs. The vehicle of Shiva is a bullock while his wife Parvati's vehicle is a lion who preys on bullock. Shiva's son Ganesha moves around on a rat while snakes (who eat rats) hang around the neck of Lord Shiva. On the other hand snakes are devoured by pea{censored} which is the vehicle of Shiva's other son Kartik. Cycle of nature is based on such mutual dependence and mutual checks & balances. One who understands this cycle and does not get disturbed by death is a wise man. He accepts death as a necessary routine. Commitments towards life rather than concerns about death are the guiding principles for all his actions. DHARMA (loosely translated as duty or religion) is not in avoiding death nor is it in fearing death nor is it in worrying about or grieving over death. Life and living life is DHARMA. If moved by the fears of death non-violence weakens life and if violence accepts death to eventually strengthen life, then violence is DHARMA and non-violence is ADHARMA (antonym or antitheses of DHARMA). This is the philosophy of Gita and this is the way of upliftment of any society.

Hindu religion takes a holistic view of life and Hindu vision is free of any pre-conceived biases. Weakening society in the name of mercy, pity or non-violence is ADHARMA and not DHARMA in the eyes of Hindu philosophy. Cow is sacred and has an important place in Indian social and economic life. Yet, no one is above the overall interests of society and DHARMA. Lord Krishna asked Arjuna to kill his own brethren and beloved because that was the DHARMA at that time. Similarly in today's situation giving up the opposition to cow slaughter is indeed in accordance with DHARMA. Hindus must realize that enriching the life of bovine and other useful animals is DHARMA. Making efforts to build a healthy and large population of cattle in India is DHRAMA. On the path of DHARMA, a wise man is not perturbed by death since he knows that soul is immortal - "Weapons cannot cut it nor can fire burn it ; water cannot drench it nor can wind make it dry." (Verse 23, Chapter 2, Srimad Bhagavad-Gita)

(Statistics quoted above are courtesy Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations)
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so you see not allowing cow slaughter is not only hurting indian economy
but also hurting farmers and also giving cows slow and painful death.

Interesting for a country that venerates the cow so highly.
 

sikh78910

SPNer
Oct 10, 2006
85
0
If you want to talk about cruelty, then riding horses in races from which they get injured exhausted, damage backs etc are far more cruel than any slaughter. Keeping birds caged or in zoo's is prolonged torture. Keeping cows to pull plough's and act as beasts of burden is tortous on animals. Man has forced his/her will on these animals in this way and gives them prolonged suffering.

So this issue is not about the actuall killing, but actually about the ritual and sacrifice.

god thats definitly cruelty, but im trying to stick with this issue. i realise the mainnn issue surrounding halal meat is the ritualistic side of it, just like hindu idol worship- but im sure our gurus would also have noted the "distasteful" aspect of it aswell. u never hear of any of them or even imagine any of them killing an animal so slowly and painfully....theres something very sadistic about it all....
 

sikh78910

SPNer
Oct 10, 2006
85
0
oh and im sure guru gobind singh ji would never have killed his horse or eagle that was always by his side. he seemed to have great affection for them, even named his horse Dilbag. One of his sikhs went to great lengths to get Dilbag back for the guru and this sikh was rewarded with a state of chardi kala. what is the difference between these animals and any other? u liken meat to vegetables but dont liken meat with other meat ie. the Dilbag, the bird and a cow or pig? would u eat ur faithful pet dog if it was common place to eat dogs? my dog is like family to me, its so intellegent, sits at command, jumps at command and has kind and loving eyes when it sees me. i once had a pet chicken and i had the same feelings towards it, it follwed me around everywhere! i just dunno about this whole meat eating thing, i just personally dont agree with it n dont think i ever will. has anyone else got these same feelings or is it just me?? i really havent read into the whole hindu aspect of things so get thrown when ppl say i have a brammin outlook on this issue, like i say in all other threads of this nature, its my concience and gut feelling, along with other very unbrahmin reasons which most narrow minded people would never accept so i wont post them......
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
43
INDIA
dear sikh78910

if killing animals is such a wrong thing then why guru hargobind ji and guru gobind singh ji went on hunting along with the sikhs.guru gobind singh ji kept falcon and it is a deadly bird to whom feeding meat is must so it is quite clear that meat was not tabboo to them.let me show you first sermon of guru hargobind ji in which he ordered sikhs to go on hunting
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phorum - message board
Then, Guru Hargobind Sahib rose and gave his first sermon to the Sikhs:

“Today the offerings that are beloved to me are good weapons and good youth. If you want my happiness, then exercise your bodies, wrestle, play gatka, go into the jungles to hunt and learn to ride horses. Weakness is now a crime to the Nation that cannot be forgiven for anyone.
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