☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
Interviews
FINAL RIFT: Ravidassia Shrines Shift Out Guru Granth Sahib Saroops
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 107244" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>Value our right to debate. But also respect the facts of history.</p><p></p><p>When was the Ravidassi sect established? <span style="color: DarkGreen"><em>Guru (We call him Sant not Guru) Ravidas founded a spiritual movement in the fourteenth century in India (i.e. 1300's). He was born (</em></span><span style="font-family: 'ARIAL'"><span style="color: DarkGreen">[SIZE=+2]<strong><span style="font-size: 12px">1398-1448)</span></strong>[/SIZE]</span></span><span style="color: DarkGreen"><em> in a downtrodden community known as Chamars, who were considered "untouchable". According to the inhumane practice of caste, the lowest strata were particularly attracted and initiated into the Ravidasi path. These people were recognised and named "Ad-Dharm" meaning the Primal Spiritual Way, and were a <strong>unique community,</strong> not adhering, collaborating, cohering and attributing to any other community i.e Hindu, <a href="http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Muslim" target="_blank">Muslims</a> or Christians of that time </em></span></p><p></p><p>In other words, the sect/faith was formed in the 14th Century in a period that pre-dates Guru Nanak (born 1469) and Sikhism. Though the dates of the life and death of Ravidas are disputed, the adherents of the Ravidasi faith were not Sikhs, and did not consider themselves Sikhs. The untouchable levels of society were attracted and initiated into the Ravidasi faith but they were not the only early members nor was the sect founded for the untouchable castes alone. </p><p></p><p>When did the Ravidasi sect/faith become so closely identified with Sikhs of the Chamar caste? T<span style="color: DarkGreen"><em>he Ravidasi movement gained an extra impetus in the 1920s in Punjab, due to Sikh members of the Chamar caste rebelling against continued caste oppression aimed at them. This group split from the Sikh community and joined the Ravidasi faith en-masse. Today, former Chamars from the Punjab are the largest visible ethnic group in the Ravidasi community. Punjabi Ravidasis have a number of Gurdeheras in the United Kingdom, especially in the Midlands. </em></span></p><p></p><p>In other words, Sikhism and the Ravidasi sect did not become so closely identified one with the other, until the 20th Century. It happened as a result of large numbers of chamars within the Sikh community in Punjab rebelling against caste oppression, and joining the Ravidasi sect as an act of protest. This suggests that Sikhs joined the Ravidasi movement; not that Ravidasis joined Sikhism.</p><p></p><p>Ravidasis apparently chose in the earliest chapters of their history to integrate Sri Guru Granth Sabhib into their religious practices, not as Sikhs but as Ravidasis. So now they are saying they are abandoning that practice and are giving back the Guru Granth. They are a "distinct" path. To be fair, criticism of Ravidasis even if ustified cannot regard them as renegade, heretic or apostate Sikhs. They were never Sikhs and never have been a sect of Sikhism. </p><p></p><p>Source: <a href="http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Ravidasi" target="_blank">Ravidasi - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 107244, member: 35"] Value our right to debate. But also respect the facts of history. When was the Ravidassi sect established? [COLOR=DarkGreen][I]Guru (We call him Sant not Guru) Ravidas founded a spiritual movement in the fourteenth century in India (i.e. 1300's). He was born ([/I][/COLOR][FONT=ARIAL][COLOR=DarkGreen][SIZE=+2][B][SIZE=3]1398-1448)[/SIZE][/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=DarkGreen][I] in a downtrodden community known as Chamars, who were considered "untouchable". According to the inhumane practice of caste, the lowest strata were particularly attracted and initiated into the Ravidasi path. These people were recognised and named "Ad-Dharm" meaning the Primal Spiritual Way, and were a [B]unique community,[/B] not adhering, collaborating, cohering and attributing to any other community i.e Hindu, [URL="http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Muslim"]Muslims[/URL] or Christians of that time [/I][/COLOR] In other words, the sect/faith was formed in the 14th Century in a period that pre-dates Guru Nanak (born 1469) and Sikhism. Though the dates of the life and death of Ravidas are disputed, the adherents of the Ravidasi faith were not Sikhs, and did not consider themselves Sikhs. The untouchable levels of society were attracted and initiated into the Ravidasi faith but they were not the only early members nor was the sect founded for the untouchable castes alone. When did the Ravidasi sect/faith become so closely identified with Sikhs of the Chamar caste? T[COLOR=DarkGreen][I]he Ravidasi movement gained an extra impetus in the 1920s in Punjab, due to Sikh members of the Chamar caste rebelling against continued caste oppression aimed at them. This group split from the Sikh community and joined the Ravidasi faith en-masse. Today, former Chamars from the Punjab are the largest visible ethnic group in the Ravidasi community. Punjabi Ravidasis have a number of Gurdeheras in the United Kingdom, especially in the Midlands. [/I][/COLOR] In other words, Sikhism and the Ravidasi sect did not become so closely identified one with the other, until the 20th Century. It happened as a result of large numbers of chamars within the Sikh community in Punjab rebelling against caste oppression, and joining the Ravidasi sect as an act of protest. This suggests that Sikhs joined the Ravidasi movement; not that Ravidasis joined Sikhism. Ravidasis apparently chose in the earliest chapters of their history to integrate Sri Guru Granth Sabhib into their religious practices, not as Sikhs but as Ravidasis. So now they are saying they are abandoning that practice and are giving back the Guru Granth. They are a "distinct" path. To be fair, criticism of Ravidasis even if ustified cannot regard them as renegade, heretic or apostate Sikhs. They were never Sikhs and never have been a sect of Sikhism. Source: [URL="http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Ravidasi"]Ravidasi - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.[/URL] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
Interviews
FINAL RIFT: Ravidassia Shrines Shift Out Guru Granth Sahib Saroops
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top