Ethnicity Vs Religion

[Randip Singh]

Randip ji

It is not clear how many of the legal tests cited above must be applied when someone claims to be a member of the Sikh "race." Having said that, who would be a Sikh in the eyes of the law?

It might not matter in the every day sense of practicing one's faith. But it would matter in any legal sense. For example, a convert seeks consideration by the court, as a Sikh, would fail most of the tests and would not be a Sikh before the court. Therefore his/her claim would be denied. Few or none of the tests would apply. Am I wrong about that? Or has there never been a test of that kind? The law is rather recent.

The law also, from the little I have here to read, seems to reinforce Sikh identity in a way that emphasizes Punjabi heritage. And that is a theme that converts often raise when they complain they are not fully accepted as members of sangat. Then the only way conversion would work toward acceptance as a Sikh is through marriage to a Punjabi, or through 3HO.

Indeed it does enforce Punjabi heritage, but at the same time it is a group within that heritage.

Like I said at the start, this will change as we get more Gora Sikhs coming in and the legal definition of Sikhs as an ethnic group and a religion may no longer hold (but then again it has help for Romany's and Jews).

 

[spnadmin]

The point about help for Romany and Jews is an excellent observation. Thanks,Randip ji.

 

[Kookar Guru da]

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Sikhs are separate religion and separate ethnicity.

We are separate religion for obvious reasons.
We are separate ethnicity for these reasons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandla_v_Dowell-Lee

Ethnicity does not mean blood or colour. Otherwise all black people would be ethnically classified as African, not Caribbean as well. And all "Oriental" people would be ethnically classified as Chinese, not Japanese or Mongolian as well.

When we have to convince our own Sikh people that they are a separate ethnicity, that is the saddest thing. In Punjabi we say "Sikh Kaum". What does Kaum mean? It means Nation or People. So we are a separate ethnicity.

These confusions happen when we do not have control of our own affairs. This is what Guru Gobind Singh meant when he said "Raj bina sabh dalle malle hai" - "Without sovereignty, it as all a mish-mash of confusion".

- Kookar Guru da

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !

 

[lionsingh]

Biological/Genetic difference...scientifically NONE !!!

Think about those ask as such STUPID questions !!!

Religion is what you choose. Ethnicity is those that cant understand why you may be darker or lighter that the Status Quo.

I am sure you know yourself..so be honest. japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[lionsingh]

Pray tell US ALL the ethnicity of these Sikhs. They have a stronger faith than I do..

PLEASE TELL ME !!!! Tell these children !!

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/TheSikhs/images/Two%2520Young%2520Sikh%2520Children.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blog.punjabilokvirsa.com/2010/06/sardaran-de-sher-bache/&usg=__Bj9uoBFJSCtEjEd2KS2Ra5JTgNw=&h=412&w=640&sz=40&hl=en&start=20&sig2=wU2xgRMztajc96mIc9pRQw&zoom=1&tbnid=WzOYJ6ruKjZCzM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=154&ei=gb2YTePyDtSEhQfOqO33CA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwhite%2Bsikhs%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D989%26bih%3D526%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=563&oei=Zr2YTcrrL4aSswb0jpD4BQ&page=2&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:20&tx=74&ty=70

 

[Kookar Guru da]

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh!

Dear lionsingh (Adherent: Hedonism)

Thanks for your wisdom on this subject. May I keep on learning and learning.

1. Maybe you are right and the House of Lords, who considered every facet of this matter and gave a detailed judgement saying that Sikhs are indeed an ethnic race, are wrong.

2. Being a Sikh, one dissolves one's identity in the faith. There is no more you and me, only The One. Mera mujh me kuchh nahin, jo kichh hai so tera - Nothing is mine or in me, all that I have is Yours. That being so, whatever a Sikh's colour, they can only be Sikh.

Q: What is my identity?
A: Sikh

Q:What is my ethnicity?
A: Sikh

Q:What is my religion?
A: Sikh

Q:What is my origin?
A: Sikh

Q:What is my destination?
A: Guru

- Kookar Guru da

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !

 

[lionsingh]

that is a faith and the trust in the Gurus. I respect you for that.

The world does not see ethnicity as such, just skin and ethnic origin. I can understand your point .... but to others the word has a different biological meaning. Sikhism is a choice..and all ethnicity is welcome and sikh.

As a Sikh I understand we have one ethnicity. But it ignores the basis of the question.

God Blessicecreamkaur

 

[spnadmin]

This topic has been examined in terms of possible category errors now for several days. Can a religion, any religion, also be an ethnic group? Or are religion and ethnicity different? Or are race and ethnicity, or race and religion, one and the same? Often official labels result from policy decisions that define race, ethnicity and religion in ways that seem counter-intuitive to some of us, but not to all of us. Sometimes the labels and definitions differ from country to country. Examples have been given where equating religion and ethnicity has even been beneficial to some groups. That is where the thread has taken us to date. To rant on these points because one has a deeply held philosophical conviction is like cursing the wind, Ranting takes us nowhere. Let's stick to issues and keep this thread from wandering. Thank you, spnadmin