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Don't Turn Down God

Discussion in 'Spiritual Articles' started by mahanbir singh, May 14, 2009.

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  1. mahanbir singh

    mahanbir singh
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    Don’t turn down God when He comes to you.

    You may say who turns down God?
    We do all the time.
    Here are some examples.
    1. Every time you get some idea or a hunch & you ignore it you have turned down God.
    2. Every time you get an offer to end a conflict & you ignore it, you have turned down God.
    3. When you do not return the smile of a stranger you have turned down God.
    4. When you walk under the night sky & you don’t look up at the awesome display of stars you have tuned down God.
    5. when you pass from a flower & you do not stop to behold its beauty you have turned down God.
    6. Every time your hear inner voice & you pay no attention you have turned down God.
    7. When you feel love for another in your soul & you do nothing you have turned down God.
    8. Every time you feel a song in your heart & you do not sing you have turned down God.
    9. Every time you see a grand vision in your mind & you do nothing you have turned down God( this is for my good friend Antonia ji who encouraged me to write on this .)
    10. Every time you find yourself reading a good book & think it just happened you have turned down God. There are no coincidences in life. Every thing is given to what you desire.
    11. every time you watch a good movie &don’t think God inspired you to see this you have turned down God.
    12. Every time you hear a nice sermon & think it just happened you have tuned down God.
    13. every time you meet just the right friend & think it as a coincidence you have turned down God.

    I have given you these instances & there many many more. So, don’t turn down God when He comes to you . what you should do is THANK HIM & SAY ‘ vwihgurU qyrw Sukr hY] jo kuJ imilAw hY qyrI ikrpw nwl imilAw hY[ mYN qyrw Sukr guzwr hW [ lK vwrI qyry crnW qy krdw nmSkwr hW[
    kI qusIN Akwl purK dy nyVy nhIM ho jwvogy?
    vwihgurU hzwrW qrIikAW nwl quhwfy swhmxy Awix KloNdw hY qusIN pCwxdy nhIN[ Eh qw hwzrw hzUr hY , zwihrw zhUr hY[ vwihgurU qW quhwfy hQ nwloN vI nyVy hY[khu rivdwr hwQ py nyVy sihjy hoey so hoeI’ ijQy quhwnUM AMdr dI drd hovy hQ hI auQy hQ lw ky dsdw hY[ zbwn nhIN ds skdI ieh suMdr hQ hI dsdy hn ik drd gofy ivc hY jW moFy ivc hY[ ikfI vfI dwq hY jo vwihgurU ny swnUM idqI hY? Swfw Prz bxdw hY ik AsIN pl pl ausdw Sukrwnw krIey qy AwKIey ‘ vwihgurU qyrw Sukr hY, vwihgurU qyrw Sukr hY, vwihgurU qyrw Sukr hY[ bs vwihgurU dw Sukr krnw hI sB qoN vfI BgqI hY[
    ijaN ijaN qusIN aus dw Sukr krogy vwihgurU dy nyVy hMudy jwEgy[

    vwihgurU ikrpw kry swnUM swirAW nUM Awpxy nwl joV lvy!
    Mhahanbir Singh

     
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  3. spnadmin

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    Mahanbir ji

    What are the ways in which God comes to us -- so we don't ignore Him when he is there. Gurbani says He is too near to be far....So how....?
     
  4. mahanbir singh

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    Antonia ji
    it depends on what your personal experience is.
    it depends how close you have felt.
    Those who feel & experience His closeness He is not far.
    Those who have not felt closeness will always say He is far.
    when you are conscious & aware that God is every where in every heart then God is nerere to you than your hand.
    it is not just that you have to think & agree because Guruji has told you so. you have to personally experience how Close you are to God.
    you will get closer & closer iif you thank God. you trust God. you love God.
    As i expained in above point when your mind starts accepting yes what ever is happening is because of God's help & blessing, you will start feeling grateful to Him. when you feel grateful you will naturally thank Him from the core of your heart. you will love thanking Him. This is first step to develop real friendshio with God. you will love this feeling.

    Regards

    Mahanbir Singh.
     
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  5. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Mahanbir ji,

    Guru fateh.

    Interesting post.

    Please correct me if I am wrong. So, in other words, everytime we miss the opportunity to breed goodness within which empowers us as Sikhs so we can practice the life of Miri- Piri in our everyday life, we have turned down God. We keep on missing the boat so to speak while sitting on the dock watching the seagulls.

    Now, as humans we know this is not a rare thing to occur. It happens several times a day in our lives. Especially in the life of a Sikh- a seeker, a learner, a student,( my dog ate my homework).

    Thanks to our Gurus, we have been given the anchor called the SGGS, so that we do not miss the boat ever again.

    Once we starts learning how to use the tools given to us in the SGGS, then only we will be able to grasp the true meaning of acceptance and by doing that we will never turn down God ever again which is in ALL, no exception.

    My 2 cent worth

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  6. pk70

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    Respected Mahabir Singh Ji
    I haven’t reached the state of mind as you are in, why I say” I do this because Guru has advised me to do(often I say, all credit is to Guru) this? “ Let me please explain, I have heard and read numerous people verbally or in words they penned down, only peace of whatever level I have, came from listening to Guru. Now, I don’t listen to others if they don’t align with Guru. If they say the same thing I listen, the following Guru Vaak convinced me once for all about satisfaction and contentment in His love, to keep this love intact, a battle began within years ago, the conflicts He puts me in, bring me failures. Good news is that He has blessed me not to give up and to pass by those conflicts. For an example if some people become unbearable due to their negativity, I want to go away, not because I hate them but to keep my peace I get through very hard way.
    How I was convinced, Here is Guru ji in Japji

    ਜਿਨਿ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਾਨੁ
    Jin sevi▫ā ṯin pā▫i▫ā mān.
    They who serve Him, obtain honour.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਗਾਵੀਐ ਗੁਣੀ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ
    Nānak gāvī▫ai guṇī niḏẖān.
    O Nanak! sing praises of the Lord who is the treasure of excellences.

    ਗਾਵੀਐ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਮਨਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਭਾਉ
    Gāvī▫ai suṇī▫ai man rakẖī▫ai bẖā▫o.
    With the Lord's love reposed in thy heart sing and hear His praises.

    ਦੁਖੁ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਘਰਿ ਲੈ ਜਾਇ
    Ḏukẖ parhar sukẖ gẖar lai jā▫e.
    Thus shalt thou shed pain and shalt take happiness to thy home.(Tr. By S. Manmohan Singh Ji)


    The feeling of His closeness doesn’t guarantee to still the mind, so struggle continues. Gurbani stresses on to keep molding the mind till it becomes able to love Him in sincerity and to take His Hukam a part of Him. My concept of this world is changed by Gurbani, in a fact, people whatever they do, are just doing as per His will, I try not to hate people if they say very bad things, only I don’t want to be in their company, that’s all., my fear is that, again I can be subjected to similar situations. This is also a negative attitude towards His Hukam but I feel He inspires me to stay away from such company. In such decisions I may not be liked by many but internal peace I get to remain away from such company is worth to take such action.

    Now, as per your post, you have covered only positive aspect of His inspiration, there are other situations. If we see a snake, at once it comes into mind “kill it”. We very well know now that the snake bites due to its protective-instinct, like a biologist, shouldn’t we ignore that and let it go if it’s not a threat. By doing so, would it be turning down God? I mean many times negative feelings do come from within. Gurubani goes one step further, it inspires to thank Him even if some witness pains and sorrows by calling it “ Eh vee dat teri dataar”(Japji). There is a big reason behind it, in His love; one doesn’t question Him as being aware of His being beyond error. How we can say in pain “Waheguru tera shukr hai?” Only if we are in love with Him and understand His Hukam is beyond error regardless how it appears to us. That need a lot of work within and Gurbani repeatedly says so by giving examples from farming, process of making Yogurt etc.

    I am truly amazed at your attitude towards all things and Him but I find it a little off the line when Gurbani is read and understood. For you, no inner battle is needed, Gurbani says that it is necessary, to go for stilling mind, you give points to reach there but Gurbani asks Sikhs to be a warrior to win within negative primal forces and keep singing His praise and trying to still the mind in His love and leave it to His grace to have bliss.To love HIM, the purity of mind is also necessary This kind of difference in your approach and Gurbani amazes me. After having said all, I still applaud your inspirational views and thank you for this. :)

    With Regards

    G Singh
     
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  7. mahanbir singh

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    My dear G. Singh ji,
    Many thanks for your comments. i sincerely appreciate & admire what you have written. How have you concluded that i do not love Gurbani & Gurus?
    Do you think God turned stone silence after talking to our Gurus and after compilation of sri Guru Granth Sahib ji?
    He still talks to us directly.
    He has inspired many authers to write books that convey His messages. These authers are living today & those spirtual books are read by millions. i confess the Truth i did not find in Sahib Siri Guru Granth Sahib & i wept & cried in front of Guru Granth Sahi
    b ji . i directly asked from Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji in these words ' You tell me the Truth, You Tell me the Truth'
    later some body specially photocopied the whole book & sent to me from India.
    the name of the book is CONVERSATIONS WITH GOD. BOOK 1,2,3 BY NEALE DONALD WALSCH. pl read them yourself. when every progress in science & technology is changing you think our old ideas about spirtuality cant change? i tell you this : TRUTH IS NOT FOUND IN BOOKS BUT IN YOUR HEART. the purpose of all massengers who come is to guide us that what ever you read you weigh with your heart & judge with your feelings.
    Now tell me does your feelings agree with this statement NADAR UPATHE JE KARE SULTANA GHA KARAINDA. HOW CAN A GOD WHOM WE CALL NIRVER & MEHARVAAN , GET SO ANGRY THAT EVEN IF YOU BEG HE WILL MAKE SURE THAT YOU DONT GET ANY HELP OR CHARITY FROM ANY WHERE AS GURBANI SAYS' DAR MANGAN BHIKH NA PAINDA. IS THIS YOUR UNDERSTANDINGT OF A LOVEABLE GOD? IS THE ABOVE EXAMPLE OF AN ANGRY GOD A GOOD EXAMPLE OF GOD WHOSE LOVE IS UNCONDITIONA.L?
    WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND GOD FULLY & COMPLETELY. WH THINK WE DO.

    if you have found all answers in Guru Granth Sahib ji i am so happy with you. i regard the reverence & love youh have. Dont consider that i do not love my Gurus. when a son does not agree with his father it does not mean that son does not love his father or leaves the home . i am not going to leave the home of sikhism. i have recieved a lot & i cherish that.
    let me tell you this i respect all my gurus & all those who have contributed in Sri Grant Sahib but no body is bigger than Akal purakh. Akal purakh is my true Guru. who guides me through my inner voice,
    if you are interested in How to get stillness & achieve oneness with Akal purakh i can share with you if you so desire.

    you have said what Guru Nanak sahib has said about stilling the mind is the only way & unless you start the bettle fron within you can not achieve stillness, if you already have closed your mind i can not help you. There are easier ways in controlling & stilling your mind than what you are saying quoting Guru Nanak Dev ji. Agin please understand whatever views i have expressed so far or will express in furure will be those of Akal purakh & not mine. i am not body. God gives his guidence direcly to all of us, i am not special or better than any body. it is His grace . JESI MAT DE TESA PARGAS, PARBRAHAM KARTA ABINAS
    WITH LOVE.

    MAHANBIR SINGH


































    g
     
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  8. pk70

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    How have you concluded that i do not love Gurbani & Gurus?(Quote Mahabir Singh Ji)

    Wow ! Respected Mahabir Singh ji, I feel, either I have failed in expressing my mind or you have difficulty to fetch the idea. Let me clear it again. First of all, let me say that I do not hold such views in my mind that you don’t love or care about Gurus but I feel you are not aligned fully with Gurbani As you know. Many of your posts are having Guru Vakas though I couldn’t read due to fonts but I was sure those were Guru Vakas, that shows that you do love Gurbani. What I said in my post was that” as per Gurbani, one needs to clean the heart first, needs to prepare the heart for it, Guru Nanak stresses on this” contrary to that, you are just saying that you can reach that state of mind where you merge with God without any other efforts” That was the whole point, but sad to say it was missed.
    You see the difference in Gurus views and your views about merging with Him ? That is only what I pointed out, nothing more; forgive me if this caused the all misunderstanding.

    “Now tell me does your feelings agree with this statement NADAR UPATHE JE KARE SULTANA GHA KARAINDA . HOW CAN A GOD WHOM WE CALL NIRVER & MEHARVAAN , GET SO ANGRY THAT EVEN IF YOU BEG HE WILL MAKE SURE THAT YOU DONT GET ANY HELP OR CHARITY FROM ANY WHERE AS GURBANI SAYS' (quote Mahabir Singh Ji

    Yes Mahabir Singh Ji, I agree with Guru Nanak hundred percent because Guru is expressing God’s power not animosity. Now lets look at that complete Guru Vaak it is 472 SGGS
    ਪਉੜੀ ਚਿਤੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਵੇਖਿ ਨਦਰੀ ਹੇਠਿ ਚਲਾਇਦਾ ਆਪੇ ਦੇ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ਵਡਹੁ ਵਡਾ ਵਡ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਸਿਰੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਧੰਧੈ ਲਾਇਦਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਉਪਠੀ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾ ਘਾਹੁ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ਦਰਿ ਮੰਗਨਿ ਭਿਖ ਪਾਇਦਾ ੧੬
    Pa▫oṛī. Cẖiṯai anḏar sabẖ ko vekẖ naḏrī heṯẖ cẖalā▫iḏā. Āpe ḏe vaḏi▫ā▫ī▫ā āpe hī karam karā▫iḏā. vadahu vadā vad meḏnī sire sir ḏẖanḏẖai lā▫iḏā. Naḏar upṯẖī je kare sulṯānā gẖāhu karā▫iḏā. Ḏar mangan bẖikẖ na pā▫iḏā. ||16||
    In Essence: All are in His mind; he watches and moves them under His glance. He Himself grants glory and causes others to act. God is great and great is His creation (Earth=world) and he puts everyone in to work. If it displeases Him, He can make the King (Powerful) to eat grace ( or meager diet) .Even if they beg, they may not get any alms(if He wills so)

    . History verifies how kings were reduced to nothing, it all happened under His Ordinance. You are judging Guru in wrong way, Guru Nanak is not describing God to be an entity holding any grudge( Vair Vala). Raja Harish Chandra’s story was very popular, he was reduced to a servant, and even he was pushed to eat grass. This Guru Vaak expresses the infinite power not enmity as you understand(that was a reference). You just stuck with a word” nadr upthee” That’s I all. I am sorry, this a wrong way to disagree with the Guru without understanding the context of the said Guru Vaak.
    So once I again, I agree with Guru Nanak hundred percent and refute your accusation of calling Guru Nanak “defining God as with enmity”


    if you have found all answers in Guru Granth Sahib ji i am so happy with you. i regard the reverence & love youh have. Dont consider that i do not love my Gurus. when a son does not agree with his father it does not mean that son does not love his father or leaves the home . i am not going to leave the home of sikhism. i have recieved a lot & i cherish that.( Quote Mahabir Singh Ji)


    I never intended to portray you otherwise, and I leave to son and father and humbly request son (you )not inspire other sons to do so because I have found your disagreement based on sheer misunderstanding of “father’s (Gurus)words”

    Let me tell you this i respect all my gurus & all those who have contributed in Sri Grant Sahib but no body is bigger than Akal purakh. Akal purakh is my true Guru. who guides me through my inner voice,

    Here you are contradicting. All who contributed in SGGS Ji, had experience of God, how come God fail them but speak rightfully through you only? They are not there to be addressed as bigger than God but to share what God told them just as you are saying what He is telling you, to prove it let me quote your own words

    “Agin please understand whatever views i have expressed so far or will express in furure will be those of Akal purakh & not mine. i am not body. – quote by Meharban Singh Ji”

    Gurbani was revealed as per Guru Nannak, it was God who said all Gurbani to Guru Nanak and you also claim what you say is God's word., How can you question God who is the biggest of all (He spoke through Guru Nanak) without even understanding its context?
    Respected Mahabir Singh Ji, take a deep breath and try to understand what actually was asked. I expressed my position, that doesn’t mean I question your experience. Guru is my refuge, I never felt to read other books to receive energy to merge with Him; I see none of Guru’s word contradictory or questionable as I look at them. How you deal with Gurbani, its your own choice. If you come up with other Guru Vakas with your disagreement, I shall clear that too.
    Hope I haven’t used any word to displease you but I needed to clear something bothered you and question your disagreement with Guru Nanak based on total misunderstanding.
    Thanks again for sharing your views.
    With regards
    G Singh
     
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  9. kiram

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    "There is a big reason behind it, in His love; one doesn’t question Him as being aware of His being beyond error. How we can say in pain “Waheguru tera shukr hai?” Only if we are in love with Him and understand His Hukam is beyond error regardless how it appears to us." - PK70 Ji

    "Gurbani asks Sikhs to be a warrior to win within negative primal forces and keep singing His praise and trying to still the mind in His love and leave it to His grace to have bliss.To love HIM, the purity of mind is also necessary " - PK70 Ji

    :wah::wah:
     
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  10. D-Singh

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    The great "evil" is the mind, in this day and age there is more mental illness. Why? when we have food, clothing, oportuninty.....its because of peoples natural instinct to survive, which does not exclude religion, Sikh's still believe in the caste system and that being fair skinned is better than being dark skinned.

    If not then why do families look for these things in marriage??
     
  11. mahanbir singh

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    Pk70 ji,

    Thank you very much for pointing out my shortcomings. I appereciate your involvement & care. That is what friends are for.

    you wil apprecate we all are individuals with individual perceptions , experiences & viewpoints.

    Somehow i do not believe in a God who punishes. who gets angry . who is judgemental God. That forms the frame work of my understanding of God. i believe He is lovable God & His love is unconditional. it is in this context that some time i differ with the thoughts which portray God as an entity which can make Sultans to eat Grass.
    i understand the whole passage of asa di vaar. i am not talking just one or two word from that in isolation. if you believe that God will not let you recieve His charity even after you beg then that is your belief.Even we humans forgive if some body makes a mistake.

    please dont think my difference on one or two points with Guru Nanak Sahib will turn my back on him. you remember i once wrote what ever different view points i may have i sough out with Guru Nanak Sahib ji & he appreciates my courage.i love Guru Nanak.

    The purpose of my writting ' Dont turn Down God' was that what ever is happining in our life it is His blessings & he sends Angels to us. For example if somebody offers you resolve your difference with other it is God who has sent that person to you. when we become aware of that we become grateful to God & when we become grateful we start loving HIm & thanking HIm. i hope the above is read in that context.

    with regards.

    Mahanbir Singh.
    once again i will say that God only loves. He is not an emotional God & egoistic God who gets angry at our mistakes. His love is total & unconditional.Therefore i dont believe He can never do Nadr Upathi.
     
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  12. pk70

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    Respected Mahabir ji
    I tried but still you haven’t got it. If I go with Guru Nanak, I understand the whole concept of good or bad but if I follow you, I feel stranded into confusing zone as per your previous post. Let me explain this with example just to prove that for some reason you are refusing to understand Guru Nanak.
    Guru Message is a complete set of Guru bachan that covers variety of issues and it ties it to His immense power and infinity. Guru Message doesn’t portrait God with animosity. Nowhere, if you find something you can share with me and I shall prove you how it appears and in reality what is the real message.
    Your recent statement proves that your mind is set up in that context and you still point out at Guru Nanak uncalled for. May I ask you why genocide occurs? Isn’t He in all? Why two little Sahibzadas were bricked alive? Can children be a threat to any one? Who was powerful than Suba Sirhind ? Wasn’t it God as per your words? Why did he let it happen with so much immense power and love? Why in Congo women were raped brutally? Why hard working people are suffering? Why people hate others just because of appearances?
    Isn’t it God above all? You agree with this, don’t you? Why does he let it happen then? In your words isn’t He “lovable God & His love is unconditional” Why so heinous crimes occur in the kingdom of loveable and His unconditional love?”
    Literally you have no answer; you will blame people for all this. Guru Nanak has answer for this, he says whatever God does is beyond error, whether it’s uprooting of a king or ruining of city and it’s all part of a big show beyond explanation to satisfy the mortals. Guru Nanak’s God is also merciful, loveable, unconditionally loving but His Ordinance is not so simple to describe (Japji), in His ordinance, nothing is wrong, bad and His justice is fairer than we can ever imagine because He is nirvair, Whatever reference Guru gives, example Guru illustrates, it has context, you are taking that reference out of context and jumping on conclusions. What I can do when you have already set up your mind in a way and that my simple explanation couldn’t make you feel that you might have over looked it. When Guru says he can make kings beg, he is just praising His immense power. You are still stuck to that reference though History verifies this fact. May be you may understand more with another example “ Have you heard a Punjabi saying” puutr ne Singh ji doobte?”( son has drowned Singh Ji), does it mean drowning in water or it’s a hint at bad plight Singh ji put in by the son?
    As I told you, to understand Guru Nanak, his all concept of God, His creation and His Hukam needs to be understood otherwise like you many others can keep questioning Guru Nanak just because of misunderstanding Guru Nanak. Come on respected Mahabir Singh Ji, you say you love "Guru Nanak", lets discuss with what you cannot agree , at least let me try how I don’t see what you see. When just for the sake of reading Gurbani, I used to read it, I felt some contradictions but when whole Guru Message became clear in my mind, I started seeing no contradiction or disagreeable Guru Vaak in whole SGGS. That is the other reason, people who disagree with Guru Nanak has not much to teach me, no offense please, this is the way Guru Nanak has shown me the path. Why I fail in stilling the mind, it’s my own fault, I have no shame to admit it that anger is still my master; I am working on it, struggling hard. After all, His grace is also necessary. I don’t question others claims or experiences, that is also I have learnt from Guru Nanak. I am totally convinced that what Guru Nanak says in process of stilling mind is mandatory (cleaning the heart). After having so amazing experience, I wonder why you contradict? Why couldn’t you answer my questions in that process? Why you have written just simple statement of my praise to insert your old statement of disagreeing with Guru Nanak though I tried to explain that it has nothing to do with God’s “VAIR?
    Let me put it this way, respected Mahabir Singh Ji, if after meeting with God as per your directions, my heart questions Guru Nanak, I don’t want to meet God because that is not my destiny. Thanks any way, no offense what so ever.

    With Regards
    G Singh


     
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  13. kiram

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    "Guru Nanak has answer for this, he says whatever God does is beyond error, whether it’s uprooting of a king or ruining of city and it’s all part of a big show beyond explanation to satisfy the mortals. Guru Nanak’s God is also merciful, loveable, unconditionally loving but His Ordinance is not so simple to describe (japji), in His ordinance, nothing is wrong, bad and His justice is fairer than we can ever imagine because He is nirvair, " - pk70 ji

    :wah:
     
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  14. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Is Ik Ong Kaar sans duality?

    Please give your reasons either way.

    Input from all would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Tejwant Singh
     
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Imho..the Nadar Upathi is NOT on Creator's part..its on OUR part.
    When a "Sultan" turns arrogant and full of Haumai..turns away from administerign justice and fairness, becomes a tyrant...he has TURNED AWAY his "sights" from GOD....thats when he himslef plants the seeds of his end...people revolt and he eats grass....see what happened to the LODHIS....Guur Nanak ji gives such beautiful illustrations....maangs full of sandhoors, and eatig paan and suparees..wearing silken clothes....and NOW...tearing out their hair in frustration and torn clothes...Babar Vani..this Nadar Upathi did NOT occur on the Creators part..it was on the Lodhis part...they Turnewd their Face away from Justice and fair play as Rulers should...
     
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  16. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Gyani ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Well said. This proves that we reap what we sow. And it does not make Ik Ong Kaar angry and/or a punisher. Ik Ong Kaar is Nirbhau, Nirvair.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  17. mahanbir singh

    mahanbir singh
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    My dear pk70ji.

    Thank you so much for your offer & help to correct me where I have misunderstood Guru Nanak or any part of Gurbani . This is very reassuring & I am grateful to you for that.

    I don’t question that you know more about Gurbani than I do, therefore I am likely to make mistakes.

    There is also a possibility that what you believe in and what other person perceives is quite different & both could be right?
    As an example of a glass half full of water, one says it is half full, the other says it is half empty. Both people are looking at the same glass. There is no reason for them to fight or argue.
    Let each person have its opinion. No one is trying to teach any one here. When your heart accepts what is true it is the main thing. I agree healthy discussion forms the basis of clearing one’s doubts, your offer to clear my doubts is much appreciated. Thank you once again.
    I think one can learn from each other only when one keeps an open mind, I cant learn any thing from you If I stick on to my position & put on my defences & do not give respect to other person’s point of view.
    I assure you my mind is open & subject to correction.

    Now kindly explain to me this : You say that Guru Nanak Sahib when he has referred to this gurvaak Nadar Upathi je Kare Sultana Gha Karainda. He is describing the immense power of God. Have I understood this correctly?
    Whom God is trying to convince we mortals that He is all powerful? Please advise me by which rule of Thumb God
    decides that to this person I have to give kingdom & from this person I have to snatch kingdom? Can God arbitrarily decide like that because He is so powerful. Does this not instil Fear of God in human hearts instead of love of God?

    Regarding your questions like why genocide occurs? Why two little Shahibzasas were bricked alive ? why that rape in congo etc. Are you saying that is it the work of God as I say God exists in all? Have I understood your question correctly?

    My dear G. Singh ji my English comprehension is very poor( believe me) some time I am not able to understand what is being said & in what context. This is my difficulty.

    I would say it is not God but by the people who forget God resides in their heart. By the people whose ego buries God as you had said. God always guides with inner voice but if we turn deaf ears to our feelings & follow our egoistic mind then these things & worst than these things happen.
    Now the important question is why God looks to all this as a spectator? Cant he correct what is going on why people are cutting people’s heart as they cut their hair?
    Can you please guide me ?
    I have some questions that I will ask later for your guidance.

    Do you agree with my concept that God is non punishing God, He is non judgemental God & His love is Uncoditional? It is this concept which puts me into trouble as Holi books say yes God has created Heaven & Hell & when He beats, you don’t find a place to weep

    .
    EQY scy hI sic inbVY cuix viK kFy jjmwilAw]------ieknw hukim smwie sey iekn hukim kry ivxwsu ] ieknw BwxY kiF ley idnw mwieAw ivic invwsu ] eyv BI AwiK n jwpeI ij iksY AwxY rwis]

    Can you kindly help me to understand the ture meaning of these vaaks.


    Your sincerely

    Mahanbir Singh

    .
     
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    #16 mahanbir singh, May 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2009
  18. pk70

    pk70
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    Extremely respectable Gyani Jio
    Kindly allow me to pitch in context of your post and I hope you wont mind. If we try to interpret “ upathi” for the beings, it looks odd in the complete Stanza(Pauri), in this Guru stanza, Guru Ji is not discussing actions of others but His care about His created beings and immense power He has over them even on their actions and Guru ji is not portraying PRABH ji with animosity but the power of His Ordinance. Let’s look at again, from the first Guru Vaak, His power is being discussed and it continues till the end, no where deeds of any one are discussed or hinted at
    ਪਉੜੀ ਚਿਤੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਵੇਖਿ ਨਦਰੀ ਹੇਠਿ ਚਲਾਇਦਾ ਆਪੇ ਦੇ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ਵਡਹੁ ਵਡਾ ਵਡ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਸਿਰੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਧੰਧੈ ਲਾਇਦਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਉਪਠੀ ਜੇ ਕਰੇ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾ ਘਾਹੁ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ਦਰਿ ਮੰਗਨਿ ਭਿਖ ਪਾਇਦਾ ੧੬
    Pa▫oṛī.Cẖiṯai anḏar sabẖ ko vekẖ naḏrī heṯẖ cẖalā▫iḏā.Āpe ḏe vaḏi▫ā▫ī▫ā āpe hī karam karā▫iḏā.vadahu vadā vad meḏnī sire sir ḏẖanḏẖai lā▫iḏā.Naḏar upṯẖī je kare sulṯānā gẖāhu karā▫iḏā.Ḏar mangan bẖikẖ na pā▫iḏā. ||16||

    In E
    care ssence: All are in His mind; he watches and moves them under His glance(watch). He Himself grants glory and causes others to act. God is great and great is His creation (Earth=world) and he puts everyone in to work. If it displeases Him, He can make the King (Powerful) to eat grace ( or meager diet) .Even if they beg, they may not get any alms(if He wills so)

    In the first Vaak, all is about His grace and care towards His created beings, second Vaak suggests that His created beings are jst medium to act as per His Will, then comes the immense His Power greatness of His creation and His control on others to act, now look at the next Vaak, “Nadr upathi je kre”, think about, who does” nadr upathi?” “Sultan”? No, God, what He does? reduced kings to be insignificant, so it is all about His command. If some one concludes that God does this because He is not Nirvair, its that person’s sheer failure to understand His Ordinance(Nanak Hukme je bujhai ta Haomai kahe n koye(Japji) In this case His Hukam is expressed in a nut shell, if its not understood, its not fault of Guru Nanak

    If we change meaning here, what we will do in the following Guru Vaakas in which God is directly related to His justice

    ਪਉੜੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀਅ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਲਿਖਿ ਨਾਵੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ ਓਥੈ ਸਚੇ ਹੀ ਸਚਿ ਨਿਬੜੈ ਚੁਣਿ ਵਖਿ ਕਢੇ ਜਜਮਾਲਿਆ ਥਾਉ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਮੁਹ ਕਾਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਦੋਜਕਿ ਚਾਲਿਆ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਇ ਰਤੇ ਸੇ ਜਿਣਿ ਗਏ ਹਾਰਿ ਗਏ ਸਿ ਠਗਣ ਵਾਲਿਆ ਲਿਖਿ ਨਾਵੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ
    Pa▫oṛī. Nānak jī▫a upā▫e kai likẖ nāvai ḏẖaram bahāli▫ā. Othai sacẖe hī sacẖ nibṛai cẖuṇ vakẖ kadẖe jajmāli▫ā. Thā▫o na pā▫in kūṛi▫ār muh kālĥai ḏojak cẖāli▫ā. Ŧerai nā▫e raṯe se jiṇ ga▫e hār ga▫e sė ṯẖagaṇ vāli▫ā. Likẖ nāvai ḏẖaram bahāli▫ā. ||2||


    In Essence: After creating beings, they are made subject to Dharma- justice. Under that, based on the truth, decision is taken and faulty are taken out. Such faulty beings get no place and get dishonored in His justice, who are absorbed in His praise pass, the cheaters get defeated. This is the way Almighty has established Dharm-justice




    Now persons like Mahabir Singh ji will question it and can say God is not like this who dishonors and throws people in hell as He claims God cannot be like this( Then we have to explain what does it mean Hell here to him). Problem here, if he thinks like this,it is his will not to understand Guru Ji's God and His creation and His law of justice together in one picture, God’s justice is not against anybody, period, actually it’s a part of His created system. It’s like a law securing justice on evidence (deeds) Of course God is always loving and caring. Guru Nanak talks about God and His Ordinance in different contexts, when he talks about His ordinance; he expresses how it is eternal and pure. If it seems an act of enmity or revenge to some, its questioners' limited understanding of Guru Nanak’s God. As Guru ji defines Him, no where He is portrayed as having animosity and revenge at all. Guru hopes his definitions of His Hukam will be understood as eternal law(Hukam=Ordinance).
    I hope you will look at it again.:)


    Humbly and with Regards,


    G Singh
     
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  19. pk70

    pk70
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    Respected Mahabir Singh Ji,
    I have to go, I assure you I will come back to answer your questions you put in your post in hope you will too answer all my questions I asked you earlier.
    Regards
    G Singh
     
  20. pk70

    pk70
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    NOTE Quotes of Mahabir Singh Ji are in black, my answers or questions are in brown fonts


    There is also a possibility that what you believe in and what other person perceives is quite different & both could be right?

    Respected Mahabir Singh Ji
    Only if Guru Vaak is read as it was penned down to say something instead of superficial assessing the meaning of it, as I gave you an example of Punjabi saying, if “downing” is limited to downing in the water, then whatever is perceived becomes questionable, so how both can be right? You claim what you say is not said by you but by God, does it mean what Guru Nanak said to be words of God is in correct and only through you God is talking rightfully? In this context, Guru Nanak is crystal clear compared to your questions, let others believe you but I shall rather believe in Guru Nanak.

    As an example of a glass half full of water, one says it is half full, the other says it is half empty. Both people are looking at the same glass. There is no reason for them to fight or argue.



    It is very irrelevant analogy because here we are discussing unfairness done to Guru Nanak.

    Let each person have its opinion. No one is trying to teach any one here. When your heart accepts what is true it is the main thing. I agree healthy discussion forms the basis of clearing one’s doubts, your offer to clear my doubts is much appreciated. Thank you once again.


    Respected Mahabir Singh ji, kindly try to understand, I repeated the idea many times, it is not matter of having an opinion while misunderstanding Guru Vaak and question him just because of your failure to understand Guru Ji by not keeping his total concept of God in mind; I have no problem if you (let’s assume) say that you have found God and you don’t believe in Guru Nanak. So be it, there are numerous deras etc, who cares? They have the right to have their opinion, it is not my problem, I feel it is Will of Akalpurakh.
    .
    I think one can learn from each other only when one keeps an open mind, I cant learn any thing from you If I stick on to my position & put on my defences & do not give respect to other person’s point of view.



    Respected Mahabir Singh ji, what kind of open mind you are talking about? To see only through your eyes what Guru Nanak has written or to decipher what he has written in all his bani about God and His ordinance, it was my open mind to listen to your own views of criticism about Guru Nanak and your uncalled for questioning him. (Uncalled-for because what you think is not said by Guru Nanak, it’s totally unfair due to out of context decisions)

    I assure you my mind is open & subject to correction.



    We will see

    Now kindly explain to me this : You say that Guru Nanak Sahib when he has referred to this gurvaak Nadar Upathi je Kare Sultana Gha Karainda. He is describing the immense power of God. Have I understood this correctly?



    Yes

    Whom God is trying to convince we mortals that He is all powerful? Please advise me by which rule of Thumb God decides that to this person I have to give kingdom & from this person I have to snatch kingdom? Can God arbitrarily decide like that because He is so powerful. Does this not instil Fear of God in human hearts instead of love of God?


    Respected Mahabir Singh ji, you are talking about open mind, this question proves it is coming out of a total close mind. Why? In Stanza under discussion, Guru Nanak no where says that God is trying to convince mortals about His being powerful or saying He is going to take this kingdom or that. It is sheer your own thinking that revolves around your own decisions about disagreeing with Guru Nanak. Look at the whole stanza, it starts with His caring mind, how could you forget that? Yes you forgot it any way, didn’t you? Why? Mahabir Singh ji you have seen only “upathi” in this Guru Vaak and threw your judgment on Guru Nanak ignoring Guru ji’s saying “HE is caring" in the beginning Vaak, like " He keeps all in His mind”. Unlike you, very carefully Guru ji takes the idea to the next pass. Guru keeps expressing the infinite power of God and His control over His creation (Don’t you say that He is above all? That is right because you are saying, if Guru Nanak says His power is immense, it becomes big deal in context of your own God, Wow Mahabir Singh ji, what a fairness!!!
    Then Guru also says all are under His Ordinance. If this Hukam is not understood, one keep jumping why this why that. So my answer to your question is very simple, all said by Guru ji about Him is not only about His immense power and how His Ordinance is in effect but also God is expressed as a very caring just as you are saying “God is love and unconditionally loves” Where is the fault of Guru Nanak, Mahabir Singh ji?
    Fear of God to scare people away from Him? It’s amazing how you think, even if is inspired by God, still doesn’t make any sense if whole concept expressed by Guru Nanak is understood?

    What kind of fear you were indicating when you stated” there is God above all Gurus and other contributors of Sri Guru Granth Sahib”?, Should we get scared of His being so big or try to show some respect to Him? Have you heard about a saying in Punjabi “ Khuda ton dro”( Have fear of God), do you think that means keep trembling in His fear or to show respect to Him who is the biggest?


    Regarding your questions like why genocide occurs? Why two little Shahibzasas were bricked alive ? why that rape in congo etc. Are you saying that is it the work of God as I say God exists in all? Have I understood your question correctly? .

    Yes, please go ahead
    I would say it is not God but by the people who forget God resides in their heart. By the people whose ego buries God as you had said. God always guides with inner voice but if we turn deaf ears to our feelings & follow our egoistic mind then these things & worst than these things happen.
    Now the important question is why God looks to all this as a spectator? Cant he correct what is going on why people are cutting people’s heart as they cut their hair?
    Can you please guide me ?



    Mahabir Singh ji, whenever you try to answer my question due to your narrow concept of God you always give contradictory or ambiguous answer, I can go back and bring those quotes given by you which were questioned by me but you never answered and if answered, they were contradictory. Now let’s look at your answer, first answer has come as I predicted (remember, please see my post!!!!), I hoped to question you with the second question” why so loving and above all God couldn’t do anything about it” but how can I respond? Your answer is totally ambiguous, at least I couldn’t make anything out of it, please help me,I request Mahabir Singh ji to rephrase it along with its context. Forgive me.

    I have some questions that I will ask later for your guidance.



    Kindly feel free

    Do you agree with my concept that God is non punishing God, He is non judgemental God & His love is Uncoditional?


    Respected Mahabir Singh ji, you are looking at God through very small window unlike Guru Nanak, I understand concept of Guru Nanak’s God and what you say is like drawing a portrait and left it incomplete. My comments can hurt you regardless how I rephrase them, so I will rather not comment on it.


    It is this concept which puts me into trouble as Holi books say yes God has created Heaven & Hell & when He beats, you don’t find a place to weep


    Now you are out in the open. It is your own created trouble. Let me make you aware of the fact that In Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the concept of Hell is different than other “Holy books”, Guru Shabadas prove that when one suffers due to anxiety he is in hell, there is no concept of Hell as you are hinting at.

    .EQY scy hI sic inbVY cuix viK kFy jjmwilAw]------ieknw hukim smwie sey iekn hukim kry ivxwsu ] ieknw BwxY kiF ley idnw mwieAw ivic invwsu ] eyv BI AwiK n jwpeI ij iksY AwxY rwis]
    Can you kindly help me to understand the ture meaning of these vaaks.


    Sorry I cannot read this due to fonts, forgive me. Please give me Page number or type Guru Vaak, I shall look at it as I did before hoping unlike before you will get something out of it
    .
    Regards

    G Singh
     
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  21. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Begging the patience of the forum, I would like to observe that there are at least two themes in this thread. They are related, but it seems that when they are all tangled up it is difficult to come to a conclusion that steers clear of controversy. One is the idea that Waheguru can reduce the egotistical to a low state of eating grass. The other is that Waheguru would "punish" anyone by lowering their status, perchance to eating grass.

    I want to start with this shabad, where some things are apparent. The first seloka sets the stage and establishes a context for the idea of who eats grass, or whether the food mentioned has little to do with grass, and that our nourishment comes about through His Hukam


    ਮਃ ੧ ॥
    ma 1 ||
    First Mehl:


    ਨ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦਸਤ ਆ ਕਸੇ ॥
    n rijak dhasath aa kasae ||
    Our sustenance is not in the hands of any person.


    ਹਮਾ ਰਾ ਏਕੁ ਆਸ ਵਸੇ ॥
    hamaa raa eaek aas vasae ||
    The hopes of all rest in the One Lord.

    ਅਸਤਿ ਏਕੁ ਦਿਗਰ ਕੁਈ ॥
    asath eaek dhigar kuee ||
    The One Lord alone exists-who else is there?


    ਏਕ ਤੁਈ ਏਕੁ ਤੁਈ ॥੫॥
    eaek thuee eaek thuee ||5||
    You alone, Lord, You alone. ||5||

    No matter what any creature eats, nourishment rests in the hands of Akaal, who alone is the source of what sustains us. The seloka casts its light on the verses that follow, for the sustenance at the beginning is not so much food but the spiritual sustenance that supports the soul. So we should understand food in that light as we read on.


    ਮਃ ੧ ॥
    ma 1 ||
    First Mehl:

    ਪਰੰਦਏ ਨ ਗਿਰਾਹ ਜਰ ॥
    parandheae n giraah jar ||
    The birds have no money in their pockets.


    ਦਰਖਤ ਆਬ ਆਸ ਕਰ ॥
    dharakhath aab aas kar ||
    They place their hopes on trees and water.


    ਦਿਹੰਦ ਸੁਈ ॥
    dhihandh suee ||
    He alone is the Giver.


    ਏਕ ਤੁਈ ਏਕ ਤੁਈ ॥੬॥
    eaek thuee eaek thuee ||6||
    You alone, Lord, You alone. ||6||

    Birds unlike humans do not relay on money to find nourishment. They rely on nature itself -- A similar idea: Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? (New Testament of the Christians) The Giver, Akaal Himself is the only Giver. We can trust He is generous, an idea supported in japji Sahib Maharaj.

    ਮਃ ੧ ॥
    ma 1 ||
    First Mehl:


    ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਲਾਰਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਸੋਇ ॥
    naanak lilaar likhiaa soe ||
    O Nanak, that destiny which is pre-ordained and written on one's forehead


    ਮੇਟਿ ਨ ਸਾਕੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
    maett n saakai koe ||
    no one can erase it.


    ਕਲਾ ਧਰੈ ਹਿਰੈ ਸੁਈ ॥
    kalaa dhharai hirai suee ||
    The Lord infuses strength, and He takes it away again.


    ਏਕੁ ਤੁਈ ਏਕੁ ਤੁਈ ॥੭॥
    eaek thuee eaek thuee ||7||
    You alone, O Lord, You alone. ||7||

    Our destiny is already known, written, and it cannot be unwritten. No one can erase the truth that it is Akaal who supports us. And He can take our nourishment, spiritual and material, away. We are wholly dependent on Him. But does He take it away? The answers to these questions are left open. Would He take it away? When would he take it away? Has He ever taken it away?


    ਪਉੜੀ ॥
    pourree ||
    Pauree:


    ਸਚਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥
    sachaa thaeraa hukam guramukh jaaniaa ||
    True is the Hukam of Your Command. To the Gurmukh, it is known.


    ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇ ਸਚੁ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ॥
    guramathee aap gavaae sach pashhaaniaa ||
    Through the Guru's Teachings, selfishness and conceit are eradicated, and the Truth is realized.


    ਸਚੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਨੀਸਾਣਿਆ ॥
    sach thaeraa dharabaar sabadh neesaaniaa ||
    True is Your Court. It is proclaimed and revealed through the Word of the Shabad.

    ਸਚਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਣਿਆ ॥
    sachaa sabadh veechaar sach samaaniaa ||
    Meditating deeply on the True Word of the Shabad, I have merged into the Truth.

    An important thought at this point is that the Gurmukh knows the Hukam of Akaal Purakh. And another important concept is, that by meditating on the shabad, Nanak has merged into the Truth of His Divine nature. For the Gurmukh this words of Nanak are the model -- to eradicate sefishness and conceit through meditation on the shabad.

    To ignore this brings a person to a form of spiritual neurosis, spiritual alienation, the suffering that comes from living outside of the shabad, and from giving up on the realization that is mentioned earlier in the seloka n rijak dhasath aa kasae || Our sustenance is not in the hands of any person.hamaa raa eaek aas vasae ||The hopes of all rest in the One Lord.
    asath eaek dhigar kuee ||
    The One Lord alone exists-who else is there? eaek thuee eaek thuee ||5|| You alone, Lord, You alone. ||5||


    What is the alternative to living in the word of the shabad? One lives as a manamukh, in a state of spiritual irrationality and confusion. And this is a life of pain. A life in a spiritual hell.



    ਮਨਮੁਖ ਸਦਾ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਣਿਆ ॥
    manamukh sadhaa koorriaar bharam bhulaaniaa ||
    The self-willed manmukhs are always false; they are deluded by doubt.

    ਵਿਸਟਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥
    visattaa andhar vaas saadh n jaaniaa ||
    They dwell in manure, and they do not know the taste of the Name.

    They dwell in manure -- This is the spiritual hell that Nanak speaks of. It is not a place where we are cast into an eternity of brimstone and ashes. And it is not literally a pile of dung. Rather we live in the spiritual filth that we create through our ignorance, any conscious choice to live by the intellect instead of through serious dwelling on the truth of the shabad, "they do not know the taste of the Name."


    ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਇ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥
    vin naavai dhukh paae aavan jaaniaa ||
    Without the Name, they suffer the agonies of coming and going.

    The price that is paid is spiritual neurosis, spiritual sickness and pain, agonies of coming and going.



    ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਆਪਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਖੋਟਾ ਖਰਾ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ॥੧੩॥
    naanak paarakh aap jin khottaa kharaa pashhaaniaa ||13||
    O Nanak, the Lord Himself is the Appraiser, who distinguishes the counterfeit from the genuine. ||13||

    It is Akaal Purakh who sorts out who is true and who is false. But he does this as the searcher of each and every heart. Akaal does not stand on a heavenly precipice dividing the good from the bad. He dwells in our heart, and it is in our heart, where there is an inner awareness of our sordid consciousness that is causing all of our agony. The inner searcher of arts speaks to us through our sense of pain in life. We do not recognize that this pain is of our own doing.

    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
    salok ma 1 ||
    Shalok, First Mehl:


    ਸੀਹਾ ਬਾਜਾ ਚਰਗਾ ਕੁਹੀਆ ਏਨਾ ਖਵਾਲੇ ਘਾਹ ॥
    seehaa baajaa charagaa kuheeaa eaenaa khavaalae ghaah ||
    Tigers, hawks, falcons and eagles-the Lord could make them eat grass.


    ਘਾਹੁ ਖਾਨਿ ਤਿਨਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਖਵਾਲੇ ਏਹਿ ਚਲਾਏ ਰਾਹ ॥
    ghaahu khaan thinaa maas khavaalae eaehi chalaaeae raah ||
    And those animals which eat grass-He could make them eat meat. He could make them follow this way of life.

    Akaal can do anything He pleases. Make grass-eaters into meat-eaters, and meat-eaters into grass-eaters. He can do it. Does He ever do that? Or does he instead offer us something to eat? And again, the gift of nourishment that we can choose is not meat or grass, but the amrith which is sweet and that lies behind the words in this pauree.



    ਨਦੀਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਟਿਬੇ ਦੇਖਾਲੇ ਥਲੀ ਕਰੇ ਅਸਗਾਹ ॥
    nadheeaa vich ttibae dhaekhaalae thhalee karae asagaah ||
    He could raise dry land from the rivers, and turn the deserts into bottomless oceans.


    ਕੀੜਾ ਥਾਪਿ ਦੇਇ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ਲਸਕਰ ਕਰੇ ਸੁਆਹ ॥
    keerraa thhaap dhaee paathisaahee lasakar karae suaah ||
    He could appoint a worm as king, and reduce an army to ashes.

    ਜੇਤੇ ਜੀਅ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਲੈ ਸਾਹਾ ਜੀਵਾਲੇ ਤਾ ਕਿ ਅਸਾਹ ॥
    jaethae jeea jeevehi lai saahaa jeevaalae thaa k asaah ||
    All beings and creatures live by breathing, but He could keep us alive, even without the breath.


    ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਸਚੇ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਦੇਇ ਗਿਰਾਹ ॥੧॥
    naanak jio jio sachae bhaavai thio thio dhaee giraah ||1||
    O Nanak, as it pleases the True Lord, He gives us sustenance. ||1||

    Akaal can make a worm a king. Yet has He done that? Whether He has or has not is not the point. The point is that it pleases the True Lord to give us sustenance and to keep us alive -- it pleases the True Lord to give us sustenance in the form of His shabad, and to give us the chance to stay alive through serious contemplation of His name.


    Not only does the Great Giver Give to us, but He keeps us alive, he keeps us spiritually alive. As written below we are kept alive through support of the Naam.

    ਮਃ ੧ ॥
    ma 1 ||
    First Mehl:


    ਇਕਿ ਮਾਸਹਾਰੀ ਇਕਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਣੁ ਖਾਹਿ ॥
    eik maasehaaree eik thrin khaahi ||
    Some eat meat, while others eat grass.



    ਇਕਨਾ ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪਾਹਿ ॥
    eikanaa shhatheeh anmrith paahi ||
    Some have all the thirty-six varieties of delicacies,

    ਇਕਿ ਮਿਟੀਆ ਮਹਿ ਮਿਟੀਆ ਖਾਹਿ ॥
    eik mitteeaa mehi mitteeaa khaahi ||
    while others live in the dirt and eat mud.


    ਇਕਿ ਪਉਣ ਸੁਮਾਰੀ ਪਉਣ ਸੁਮਾਰਿ ॥
    eik poun sumaaree poun sumaar ||
    Some control the breath, and regulate their breathing.

    ਇਕਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ ਨਾਮ ਆਧਾਰਿ ॥
    eik nirankaaree naam aadhhaar ||
    Some live by the Support of the Naam, the Name of the Formless Lord.


    ਜੀਵੈ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
    jeevai dhaathaa marai n koe ||
    The Great Giver lives; no one dies.


    In the verse below Nanak defines the alternatives -- we can live in the shabad or we can lived deluded. In other words, if we do not accept the gift of His sustenance in the shabad, then we have chosen to live in spiritual neurosis and the agony that accompanies it.. We can accept His gift or live in pain.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਮੁਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥
    naanak muthae jaahi naahee man soe ||2||
    O Nanak, those who do not enshrine the Lord within their minds are deluded. ||2||



    ਪਉੜੀ ॥
    pourree ||
    Pauree:

    ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਾਰ ਕਰਮਿ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥
    poorae gur kee kaar karam kamaaeeai ||
    By the karma of good actions, some come to serve the Perfect Guru.

    To conclude: It is through the teachings of the Shabad Guru that some are able to eliminate their selfishness and conceit. They focus their minds on medication of the name of God. Notice that Guru nanak says, "undetaking any other task;" he is saying that some decide otherwise and they waste their lives and eat poison.

    v
    ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥
    guramathee aap gavaae naam dhhiaaeeai ||
    Through the Guru's Teachings, some eliminate selfishness and conceit, and meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.


    ਦੂਜੀ ਕਾਰੈ ਲਗਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਈਐ ॥
    dhoojee kaarai lag janam gavaaeeai ||
    Undertaking any other task, they waste their lives in vain.

    He is the Giver. Do we accept the gift? Or do we eat poison (spiritual agony)? Or do we praise the true word of the shabad (we merge with the Lord)?

    ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਸਭ ਵਿਸੁ ਪੈਝੈ ਖਾਈਐ ॥
    vin naavai sabh vis paijhai khaaeeai ||
    Without the Name, all that they wear and eat is poison.



    ਸਚਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥
    sachaa sabadh saalaahi sach samaaeeai ||
    Praising the True Word of the Shabad, they merge with the True Lord.



    ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੁਖਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਈਐ ॥
    vin sathigur saevae naahee sukh nivaas fir fir aaeeai ||
    Without serving the True Guru, they do not obtain the home of peace; they are consigned to reincarnation, over and over again.


    ਦੁਨੀਆ ਖੋਟੀ ਰਾਸਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥
    dhuneeaa khottee raas koorr kamaaeeai ||
    Investing counterfeit capital, they earn only falsehood in the world.


    ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਖਰਾ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਜਾਈਐ ॥੧੪॥
    naanak sach kharaa saalaahi path sio jaaeeai ||14||
    O Nanak, singing the Praises of the Pure, True Lord, they depart with honor. ||14||

    So now! What of being cast into hell -- the hell of Gurbani is the hell of our own making. First we fix our attention on the counterfeit by trusting in false ideas and values, and then we earn what we reap, more falsehood. Our pay-off is to live lives that are tormented by fear and worry, jealousy and depression.

    And what of finding heaven? Heaven is the home of peace, and we find it singing the praises of the pure. In that way we depart with honor, says Guruji.

    Then the question: Does Akaal assign the righteous Judge of Dharma to act as his surrogate and separate us at death casting some into hell? Does he punish the egotistical in their lifetime by making them live in manure or eat grass? My understanding is that Akaal has the power to do all of this. Does He? Does the Judge of Dharma act as the judge, jury and executioner? Or is the judge of dharma living inside us eating away at our hearts? The food we eat in the context of the Shabad Guru is chosen as either spiritual poison or spiritual noursihment. The place were we live is either in a pile of manure or in the home of our own heart. The heaven or the hell is either the sukh or dukh, the peace or the agony. He allows us accept His gifts. if we turn down God by rejecting His gifts, then our suffering comes from the nagging of the voice within that reminds us we are spiritually sick.

    ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਸਭ ਵਿਸੁ ਪੈਝੈ ਖਾਈਐ ॥
    vin naavai sabh vis paijhai khaaeeai ||
    Without the Name, all that they wear and eat is poison.



    ਸਚਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥
    sachaa sabadh saalaahi sach samaaeeai ||
    Praising the True Word of the Shabad, they merge with the True Lord.




    Please forgive any offense.
     
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