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Does God Have Hands?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Archived_member2, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all!

    Guru Arjan Dev Jee is singing.
    "jee-a jugat jaa kai hai haath." SGGS 184-9

    Guru Gobind Singh Jee also wrote in Chaupa-ee Sahib Jee "hamree karo haath d-ay racchaa."

    Do all true Sikhs feel that God has hands? Please express your views. I will be grateful.


    Balbir Singh
     
    #1 Archived_member2, Jul 26, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2007
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  3. spnadmin

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    Re: Deas God has hands?

    Balbir ji

    Do you think God has hands? In Sohila, God has a thousand feet and not one foot. God has not one nose, but 1000 noses. If you take this from the point of view of logic, how could this be? So what can we gather Guruji is trying to tell us? (added later that night)
     
  4. simpy

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    Re: Deas God has hands?

    Dear and Righteous Balbir ji,

    JO JO DEESEY TERA ROOP- let us count that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Archived_member2

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    Re: Deas God has hands?

    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all!

    Please come back to hands first. Thanks.

    Balbir Singh
     
  6. simpy

    simpy
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    Re: Does God has hands?

    he he
     
  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Re: Does God has hands?

    Yes, God has hands.
     
  8. simpy

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    Re: Does God has hands?

    Respected SaadhSangat Ji,

    First of all me neech wants to thank Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Sahibaan for providing us with the Gem- Gurbani.

    There is an extensive use of metaphors and allegories in Gurbani. The purpose here is to make us understand the truth(the true nature of self) easily. As until it is not experienced directly, it is tough to grasp. The use of metaphors and examples from everyday life simplifies the profound concepts and subtle thought.

    Same concept is repeated again and again, using different imagery- purpose is to make us understand the concept by all means, clearing the doubts, making our belief stronger..................

    The above question by our dear and respected veer

    he is pointing towards Guru Ji's Hukam-


    jIA jugiq jw kY hY hwQ ]
    jeea jugath jaa kai hai haath
    Our way of life is in His Hands;
    so ismrhu AnwQ ko nwQu ]
    so simuruhu anaath ko naath
    remember Him, the Master of the masterless.
    pRB iciq Awey sBu duKu jwie ]
    prubh chith aaeae subh dhukh jaae
    When God comes to mind, all pains depart.
    BY sB ibnsih hir kY nwie ]1]
    bhai subh binusehi har kai naae
    All fears are dispelled through the Name of the Lord. ||1||
    ibnu hir Bau kwhy kw mwnih ]
    bin har bho kaahae kaa maanehi
    Why do you fear any other than the Lord?
    hir ibsrq kwhy suKu jwnih ]1] rhwau ]
    har bisuruth kaahae sukh jaanehi
    Forgetting the Lord, why do you pretend to be at peace? ||1||Pause||

    There is this term that is very commonly used in Punjab- hath vass/hath ch

    je mere hath hove ta mai ......
    if it in my hands(my control) then i.......

    jisde hath kum ditaa oh....
    to whome the control is given......

    FOR MORE SIMPLE WAY IF WE WANT TO SAY THIS-



    jIA jugiq jw kY hY hwQ ]

    Our way of life is in His Control


    Another one our Righteous veer said was-

    idiom- hath de ke rakhna
    saving someone by bringing him/her under protection.


    This is all me neech could say.....

    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  9. spnadmin

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    Re: Does God has hands?

    Surinder ji

    There is an extensive use of metaphors and allegories in Gurbani. The purpose here is to make us understand the truth(the true nature of self) easily. As until it is not experienced directly, it is tough to grasp. The use of metaphors and examples from everyday life simplifies the profound concepts and subtle thought

    That sums it up. That is why poetry and song are so effective -- exactly as you say.
     
  10. Archived_member2

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    Re: Does God has hands?

    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and Begum Jee!

    Quote "Yes, God has hands."
    I enjoy knowing blessed people. Strange, not many have realized this. Some think this experience is only for the Gurus. This experience is for every true Sikh, I feel.


    Balbir Singh
     
  11. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Does God has hands?


    Balbir Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I am confused about your 2 claims. First,' God has hands', which means Ik Ong Kaar is a mortal not 'Ajuni Sahibung' as Mool Mantar describes IT to be.

    Secondly your claim that 'Strange, not many have realized this'. How do you know that? We all know only Ik Ong kaar knows which milestone each of us is at. Not you nor anyone else can find that out no matter how much we pretend to be Ms. Cleo at times.

    So I was wondering if playing God is also a Sikhi way.

    OR is it that you are just taking literal translation of the Gurbani while ignoring the underlying meaning shown through metaphors?

    Tejwant
     
  12. Archived_member2

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    Re: Does God has hands?

    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and VaheguruSeekr Tejwant Jee!

    Nowhere Gurbaanee says that one should remain a seeker. The Gurus always suggest to experience Truth. The easiest way they suggested is true Simran of NAM.
    Whole Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the collection of Hymns from enlightened Gurus singing that experience. A true Sikh is one who is experiencing every moment the same way.

    Quote "I am confused about your 2 claims. First,' God has hands', which means Ik Ong Kaar is a mortal not 'Ajuni Sahibung' as Mool Mantar describes IT to be."
    This sentence shows that many things are not clear.
    The word 'Hands' occur often in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. God is Nirgun and Sargun both. Sargun God seems to be changing constantly. This evolution does not stop even when our mind is not able to realize it. The less conscious mind names this situation death. Truly, nothing dies. How can Sarguna Saroop of God die.
    God's Hands never die. Sometimes it comes to rest when HE wills.
    Sargun God is the body of Nirgun God.
    The Guru's Vaaks are to enliven experiencing Truth. The Gurus have not given us those to translate.
    'Ik Ong Kaar' does not mean the Supreme Nirgun but one God as many have interpreted it, in my view. Also, 'Ajuni Sahibung' does not explain that God is immortal.
    Those who are interested in the extended Satsang on the beginning part of Japujee Sahib may please watch the interview on the Time Warner's Channels in Hollywood area and around. They may broadcast these on coming Saturdays. It is the first time that we share more spiritual understanding of this part. The title of this programme is 'In Search of Peace and Joy." For the programme details one can request the popular moderator, Avinash Kaur Jee.

    Quote "Secondly your claim that 'Strange, not many have realized this'. How do you know that?"
    This is the result of true Simran. One who has received it as Gur Prasaad does not knock to find any more if it is a door.

    Quote "We all know only Ik Ong kaar knows . . ."
    Really. We all know that God knows. What else is left to know for us.

    Quote "Not you nor anyone else can find that out no matter how much we pretend to be Ms. Cleo at times."
    Please do not be envious. The Gurus want every true Sikh experiencing Truth.

    Quote "So I was wondering if playing God is also a Sikhi way."
    I wonder. God is playing also in the true Sikh. This is HIS Sikhi way.

    Quote "OR is it that you are just taking literal translation of the Gurbani while ignoring the underlying meaning shown through metaphors?"
    The Gurus experience and that of a true Sikh is Truth, not a metaphor.

    Now it is your turn. Please provide one reference where the Gurus have suggested once not to experience Truth they are singing for ever.

    **************

    The next Vaak from Guru Gobind Singh Jee in the beginning of Chaupa-ee Sahib says "tav charnan man rahe hamaaraa."
    Only the true Sikh wonders HIS Feet experiencing this Truth.


    Balbir Singh
     
  13. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Does God has hands?

    Balbir Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh. Thanks for the response. I regret to say that I am not spiritually elevated as you are. So when and if I get there then I would be able to understand what your above post means. Till then I shall remain a seeker.

    Tejwant
     
  14. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    One has to experience the presence in one's life. Not just quoting Gurbani and then explaining that it is a metaphor.
    "Hath De Rakhe Apney Ko,
    Saas saas pritpalay."

    The idea that we meet here is to exchange similarities and motivate each other to be better people.

    Take this story as your guiding light for today:
    After traveling for many years and showing the people of the world the path to God, Guru Nanak Dev Ji came to a land near the banks of the Ravi River. This Land belonged to a wealthy man named Krori Mal who donated this entire land to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. The land was renamed to Kartarpur. Guru Nanak Dev Ji spent the later years of his life here in Kartarpur along with Bhai Lehna Ji. One afternoon, while staying in Kartarpur, Bhai Lehna Ji was giving Guru Nanak Dev Ji a massage. What did Bhai Lehna Ji see?
    When he first started the massage Guru Nanak Sahib Ji was fine. He had no marks or cuts on his body, but now out of nowhere Guru Ji’s feet were bleeding. There were cuts in the feet as if they had walked over some prickles or something sharp.
    Bhai Lehna Ji was shocked! He asked, “Guru Ji, you are sitting here yet how come your feet have started to bleed? How come there are cuts in your feet as if you have walked over something sharp?”
    Guru Nanak Dev Ji said that there is a Sikh who is milking goats out in the field. Call that Sikh here and then I will give you the answer to your question. Guru Ji sent another Sikh to call the Sikh in the fields. When the messenger reached the fields the Sikh was reading the Bani of Kirtan Sohila while he was milking the goats. The messenger told the Sikh that Guru Ji was calling him.
    The Sikh came and bowed to Guru Ji. Guru Nanak Dev Ji then told the Sikh, “Whenever anybody reads the Bani that you were reciting (Kirtan Sohila), I am always present there. While you were walking around in the fields reading Kirtan Sohila, I was walking behind you listening to the Bani. I didn’t let a single cut come on to your body; instead I took the cuts for you.”
    The Sikh asked Guru Ji for forgiveness and asked what he should do now.
    Guru Ji told him that Kirtan Sohila Bani should be read at night time before going to sleep. First you should wash your hands, feet, and face and then read the Bani with full concentration. If you do this, then I will sit by that person’s side and listen.
    From this moment on, Kirtan Sohila started to be read at night time. Kirtan Sohila is a very short Bani, but some people are so lazy that they go to sleep without reading it. It’s not like Sukhmani Saheb which is very long. It is only a few small shabads.
    (Full version : Sikh Articles - Kirtan Sohila Sahib)
     
  15. drkhalsa

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    Forgive me !
    ButI could not get what you want to convey here ?!

    Who is this moderator ?!
     
  16. spnadmin

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    Dr Ji

    I didn't understand, but it is probably a moderator on video at YouTube.
     
  17. simpy

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    This Tuk is Dhan Dhan Siri Guru ARJAN DEV JI MAHARAAJ da hukam:




    AMg 682
    ang 682
    Page 682
    DnwsrI mhlw 5 ]
    dhunaasuree mehulaa 5
    Dhanaasaree, Fifth Mehl:
    AauKI GVI n dyKx dyeI Apnw ibrdu smwly ]
    aoukhee ghurree n dhaekhun dhaeee apunaa birudh sumaalae
    He does not let His devotees see the difficult times; this is His innate nature.
    hwQ dyie rwKY Apny kau swis swis pRiqpwly ]1]
    haath dhaee raakhai apunae ko saas saas prathipaalae
    Giving His hand, He protects His devotee; with each and every breath, He cherishes him. ||1||
    pRB isau lwig rihE myrw cIqu ]
    prubh sio laag rehiou maeraa cheeth
    My consciousness remains attached to God.
    Awid AMiq pRBu sdw shweI DMnu hmwrw mIqu ] rhwau ]
    aadh anth prubh sudhaa sehaaee dhunn humaaraa meeth
    In the beginning, and in the end, God is always my helper and companion; blessed is my friend. ||Pause||
    min iblws Bey swihb ky Acrj dyiK bfweI ]
    man bilaas bheae saahib kae achuruj dhaekh buddaaee
    My mind is delighted, gazing upon the marvellous, glorious greatness of the Lord and Master.
    hir ismir ismir Awnd kir nwnk pRiB pUrn pYj rKweI ]2]15]46]
    har simar simar aanudh kar naanuk prabh poorun paij rukhaaee
    Remembering, remembering the Lord in meditation, Nanak is in ecstasy; God, in His perfection, has protected and preserved his honor. ||2||15||46||



    Gurmukhi Translation:
    Bhai Sahib Bhai Sahib Singh Ji:

    ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! (ਉਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪਣੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਨੂੰ) ਕੋਈ ਦੁੱਖ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਸਮਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਵੇਖਣ ਦੇਂਦਾ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣਾ ਮੁੱਢ-ਕਦੀਮਾਂ ਦਾ (ਪਿਆਰ ਵਾਲਾ) ਸੁਭਾਉ ਸਦਾ ਚੇਤੇ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪਣਾ ਹੱਥ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਦੀ ਰਾਖੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, (ਸੇਵਕ ਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਦੇ) ਹਰੇਕ ਸਾਹ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਪਾਲਦਾ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ।੧।
    ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨ (ਭੀ) ਉਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ ਜੁੜਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਤੋਂ ਅਖ਼ੀਰ ਤਕ ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਮਦਦਗਾਰ ਬਣਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸਾਡਾ ਉਹ ਮਿੱਤਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਧੰਨ ਹੈ (ਉਸ ਦੀ ਸਦਾ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ ਕਰਨੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ ਹੈ)ਰਹਾਉ।

    ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਮਾਲਕ-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਹੈਰਾਨ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਕੌਤਕ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ, (ਸੇਵਕ ਦੇ) ਮਨ ਵਿਚ (ਭੀ) ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ੀਆਂ ਬਣੀਆਂ ਰਹਿੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਤੂੰ ਭੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰ ਸਿਮਰ ਕੇ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਮਾਣ। (ਜਿਸ ਭੀ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੇ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕੀਤਾ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਪੂਰੇ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਇੱਜ਼ਤ ਰੱਖ ਲਈ।੨।੧੫।੪੬।


    The teaching here says- WAHEGURU DHAN HAI, WAHEGURU DOESN'T LET HIS SEVAK FACE ANY DIFFICULT TIMES, ALWAYS THERE(PRESENT) PROTECTING HIM/HER.

    HE IS ALWAYS THERE FOR US, NO MATTER WHAT TIME, WHAT STATE(physically pure OR impure), WE SHOULD PRAISE HIM ALL THE TIME-24/7................... MIND SHOULD BE REMEMBERING HIM AND ONLY HIM.................Swas goen on all the time, si simran should always be all the time:


    swis swis ismrhu goibMd ]
    saas saas simuruhu gobindh
    With each and every breath, meditate in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe,
    mn AMqr kI auqrY icMd ]
    mun anthur kee outhurai chindh
    and the anxiety within your mind shall depart.


    Haath pav te kaam kar, cheet niranjan naal

    EXPERIENCES IN LIFE HAPPENS FOR THE REASSURANCE OF THE TRUTH, MAKING OUR BELIEFS MORE STRONG. GURU JI'S EXPERIENCE IS THE KEY FOR US TO THAT DOOR............

    me neech just sharing my thoughts

    humbly asking for everybody’s forgiveness
     
  18. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and Dr. Khalsa Jee!

    Quote "ButI could not get what you want to convey here ?!"
    The Guru's Vaaks are to enliven, not to translate. We know a monotonous and the carbon copy translation of the beginning of Japujee Sahib.
    God is also not limited to a standard understanding of a group. The understanding of the Guru's Vaaks may be different at different conscious levels of the mind.
    In those interviews for the TV programme one Satsang took place about the spiritual understanding of this part.
    I can try to raise your curiosity. The standard translation of '1 OAN' is 'God is one'. The standard translation raises another question. What else is other than ONE when God is but ONE?
    God is Sargun and Nirgun both. The wonder Words from God through Guru Nanak Dev Jee express that '1 OAN' is Nirgun and Sargun God simultaneously. The following words "Satnaam, Kartaa Purakh, Nir Bha-o, Nir Vair, Akaal Moorat, Ajoonee, Sah Bhang" express the same Nirgun and Sargun God together.
    The standard translation is expressing God partly. God is complete.
    We can discuss more about it after the interview is on air.

    Quote "Who is this moderator ?!"
    Avinash Kaur Jee is living near Los Angeles. She is moderating this TV programme for the Time Warner Cable Channels. She is a known person in this area for her services.


    Balbir Singh
     
  19. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Dear Balbir Ji,
    I'm happy to feel an energetic, spirited and well informed soul like you pass by. You might not know what after-effects of your passing by may have on us. There are many 'hungry souls' (couldn't find a better word) yearning to meet someone who lives in accordance with Guru Ji's purpose.

    Will be good if you could expand your experiences in the form of casual words with which everyone wants to relate to. I want to hear someone speak English for a change.
     
  20. drkhalsa

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    Dear Balbir Singh ji

    Thanks for your reply!

    I hope this interview willbe available in vedio format on internet as everybody cant asses this



    Thanks


    Jatinder Singh
     
  21. spnadmin

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    Balbir ji

    I tried to find Avinash Kaur and the title In Search of Peace and Joy on the Time-Warner Website. Do you have other information that might help us understand this message?

    Thank you.
     

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