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does caste realy exist in Panth

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by vijaydeep Singh, Oct 28, 2004.

  1. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Das only want to from fellow brothers and sisters to give us account from Gurbani or Historical books, which prove that after becoming Sikh,We left old castes.Or in Sikhism as a realty castes does not exist.
     
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  3. Arvind

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    I look forward to replies for above question by vijaydeep singh ji. Please quote references to support your views.

    Thanks.
     
  4. Singhstah

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    sadly i think we do still have castes even though we shouldnt. People just seem to have some false pride over their caste when theyve got something even greater to be proud of ,sikhi.Caste is something that belongs to hinduism not sikhi,thats why the khalsa is in such a bad state these days

    jb lg Kwlsw rhy inEwrw |
    qb lg qyj dIau mYN swrw |
    jb ieh ghY ibprn kI rIq |
    mYN n kroN ien kI pRqIq
    Jab lag Khalsa rahe niara. tab lag tej dio mai sara.
    jab eh gahe bipran ki reet. mai na karo in ki parteet.
    So long as Khalsa retains his distinct identity, I will give him my entire radiance and strength. But if he should take on a non-Sikh way of life, then I shall have no confidence in him and withdraw my support and protection”.
    Sri Guroo Gobind Singh Ji Mahraj
     
  5. etinder

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    these r the few references of caste/social status from Sri guru granth sahibji used under different perspectives


    This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Siree Raag on Pannaa 15
    nIcw AMdir nIc jwiq nIcI hU Aiq nIcu ] nwnku iqn kY sMig swiQ vifAw isau ikAw rIs ]
    neechaa a(n)dhar neech jaath neechee hoo ath neech || naanak thin kai sa(n)g saathh vaddiaa sio kiaa rees ||
    Nanak seeks the company of the lowest of the low class, the very lowest of the low. Why should he try to compete with the great?

    ijQY nIc smwlIAin iqQY ndir qyrI bKsIs ]4]3]
    jithhai neech samaaleean thithhai nadhar thaeree bakhasees ||4||3||
    In that place where the lowly are cared for-there, the Blessings of Your Glance of Grace rain down. ||4||3||


    This Shabad is by Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 116




    gurmuiK Qwpy Qwip auQwpy ]
    guramukh thhaapae thhaap outhhaapae ||
    The Gurmukh realizes that the Lord alone creates, and having created, He destroys.

    gurmuiK jwiq piq sBu Awpy ]
    guramukh jaath path sabh aapae ||
    To the Gurmukh, the Lord Himself is social class, status and all honor.

    This Shabad is by Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 229

    gurmuiK jwiq piq nwmy vifAweI ]
    guramukh jaath path naamae vaddiaaee ||
    For the Gurmukh, the Naam is social status, honor and glorious greatness.



    This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 352




    hmrI jwiq piq scu nwau ]
    hamaree jaath path sach naao ||
    The True Name is my social status and honor.

    krm Drm sMjmu sq Bwau ]
    karam dhharam sa(n)jam sath bhaao ||
    The love of the Truth is my karma and Dharma - my faith and my actions, and my self-control.

    nwnk bKsy pUC n hoie ]
    naanak bakhasae pooshh n hoe ||
    O Nanak, one who is forgiven by the Lord is not called to account

    This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 468


    hau FwFI kw nIc jwiq hoir auqm jwiq sdwiedy ]
    ho dtaadtee kaa neech jaath hor outham jaath sadhaaeidhae ||
    I am the Lord's minstrel, of low social status; others call themselves high caste.

    iqn@ mMgw ij quJY iDAwiedy ]9]
    thinh ma(n)gaa j thujhai dhhiaaeidhae ||9||
    I seek those who meditate on You. ||9||
    This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 469

    AgY jwiq n joru hY AgY jIau nvy ]
    agai jaath n jor hai agai jeeo navae ||
    In the world hereafter, social status and power mean nothing; hereafter, the soul is new.

    ijn kI lyKY piq pvY cMgy syeI kyie ]3]
    jin kee laekhai path pavai cha(n)gae saeee kaee ||3||
    Those few, whose honor is confirmed, are good. ||3||
    This Shabad is by Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Vadhans on Pannaa 559

    gurmuiK jwiq piq scu soie ]
    guramukh jaath path sach soe ||
    The True Lord is the social status and honor of the Gurmukh.

    This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Todee on Pannaa 713





    nwmu jwiq nwmu myrI piq hY nwmu myrY prvwrY ]
    naam jaath naam maeree path hai naam maerai paravaarai ||
    The Naam is my social status, the Naam is my honor; the Naam is my family.

    nwmu sKweI sdw myrY sMig hir nwmu mo kau insqwrY ]1]
    naam sakhaaee sadhaa maerai sa(n)g har naam mo ko nisathaarai ||1||
    The Naam is my companion; it is always with me. The Lord's Name is my emancipation. ||1||


    This Shabad is by Guru Raam Daas Ji in Raag Soohee on Pannaa 731



    hmrI jwiq pwiq guru siqguru hm vyicE isru gur ky ]
    hamaree jaath paath gur sathigur ham vaechiou sir gur kae ||
    The Guru, the True Guru, is my social status and honor; I have sold my head to the Guru.
    This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Raamkalee on Pannaa 945

    rUpu n ryiKAw jwiq n hoqI qau AkulIix rhqau sbdu su swru ]
    roop n raekhiaa jaath n hothee tho akuleen rehatho sabadh s saar ||
    When there was no form or shape or social class, then the Shabad, in its essence, resided in the unmanifest Lord.

    gaunu ggnu jb qbih n hoqau iqRBvx joiq Awpy inrMkwru ]
    goun gagan jab thabehi n hotho thribhavan joth aapae nira(n)kaar ||
    When the world and the sky did not even exist, the Light of the Formless Lord filled the three worlds.
    This Shabad is by Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Bhairao on Pannaa 1127

    jwiq kw grbu n krIAhu koeI ]
    jaath kaa garab n kareeahu koee ||
    No one should be proud of his social class and status.

    bRhmu ibMdy so bRwhmxu hoeI ]1]
    breham bi(n)dhae so braahaman hoee ||1||
    He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. ||1||
    This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Saarang on Pannaa 1197

    jwiq brn kul shsw cUkw gurmiq sbid bIcwrI ]1]
    jaath baran kul sehasaa chookaa guramath sabadh beechaaree ||1||
    Social class and status, race, ancestry and skepticism are eliminated, following the Guru's Teachings and contemplating the Word of the Shabad. ||1||

    jwiq brn kul shsw cUkw gurmiq sbid bIcwrI ]1]
    jaath baran kul sehasaa chookaa guramath sabadh beechaaree ||1||
    Social class and status, race, ancestry and skepticism are eliminated, following the Guru's Teachings and contemplating the Word of the Shabad. ||1||


    This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Prabhaatee on Pannaa 1330



    jwiq jnmu nh pUCIAY sc Gru lyhu bqwie ]
    jaath janam neh pooshheeai sach ghar laehu bathaae ||
    God does not ask about social class or birth; you must find your true home.

    sw jwiq sw piq hY jyhy krm kmwie ]
    saa jaath saa path hai jaehae karam kamaae ||
    That is your social class and that is your status - the karma of what you have done.




    i hope this would help, and i feel that instead d of getting down to separating n segregating ourselves on the basis caste is such a waste, i feel as per Shri guru granth sahibji there is a dichotomy on one side r the people who are blessed with His name n rest all in the second ones.
    gurufateh​

     
  6. Arvind

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    So wonderful response etinder ji.

    hamaree jaath path sach naao ||
    The True Name is my social status and honor.

    Thanks.
     
  7. vijaydeep Singh

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    Das bows his head to his learned creed

    Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
    Thanks o lot many times to you,May Akal bless you,
    Das wanted this to counter false propoganda lounched by anti Sikh forces.

    Das thanks Akal that he got the reply.

    Das looks forward for more such quotes plus if possible from the history of the panth.

    From lifes of Gurudevs and Great Sikhs about all that.Das is in fact working on this issue for last say 2 or more months.

    Das looks forward for more responses on it in future.

    Das again thanks you.

    Again das want to clear his motive,

    Das is from Hindu Family and seen that members of his former creed ie hinduism suffer a lot due to artificial boundaries created by caste. Das think that those poor people can be librated by Gurmat only all other ways will fail.

    Das also seeks your permission to use your quotes for use in his research.

    Just one more thing,it said that during Amrit Sanskar of initial Panj Piaras,The story of killing them,beheading them and interchanging thier heads and them reviving them By nector or Amrit could be actually meaning not the miracle but the miracle of end of caste in Panth.

    Is this story written in any old scripture,If it is yes then it may have more symbolic meaning of ending all castes and uniting them in Khalsa rather then miracle of revivale of dead by Amrit(as miracles are anti Panth).To put it in more clear words does the story of miracle of Amrit fabricated by Brahmanical(Das is not anti to Brahmin caste as such but thier idealogy) just to overshadow the real 'miracle' that by sharing the common bowl of Amrit,Khalsa was librated from castes.Das seeks your advice.
     
  8. etinder

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    dear vijaydeepsingh ji

    these r the quotes from Sri guru granth sahibji and belongs to the whole world so please feel free to use these in your research and hopefully the gurbani n gurmat helps all of us to get rid of the mailce n prejudices deep seated in us due to this stratification practice prevalent in our society.

    gurufateh
     
  9. jag

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    hi my name is jag and i have just recently joined this site, i am attempting to find some research for my dissertation, it is about caste differences within sikhism, there obvious debates that caste does not exist in sikhism, but the truth is it does. if anyone has any comment to share please do not hesitate to contact me on jagmann47@hotmail.com it would be much appreciated if anyone has any information that may help me with my research on caste differences. thank you.
     
  10. etinder

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    dearest jag

    welcome to the forums and we would really appreciate if you can post the details of your research and the key findings on the forums

    regards
     
  11. Sher_Singh

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    "How can you call some low and call some high, for we all have come from the same light" - Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji
     
  12. Arvind

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    Sher Singh ji,

    Perhaps you are talking about 'Ek Noor Te Sab Jag Upjya, Kaun Bhale ko Mandey'

    But that doesnt talk about castes. Does it?

    Regards.
     
  13. Sher_Singh

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    Sevadaar Singh Ji,
    Yes you are right......i suppose that does not specifically talk about castes. But nowadays society is still calling people low ar high judging by their caste.
     
  14. drkhalsa

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    Just to add few more qoutes from gurbani regarding caste

    No one should be proud of his caste.
    He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. || 1 ||
    Do not be proud of your caste, you ignorant fool!
    So much sin and corruption comes from this pride.||1|| Pause||
    Everyone says that there are four castes, four social classes.
    They all emanate from the God’s Seed. || 2 ||
    The entire universe is made of the same clay.
    The Potter has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. || 3 ||
    The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body.
    Who can say which is less (inferior or bad), and which is more (superior or good)? || 4 ||Says Nanak, this soul is bound by its actions. Without meeting the True Guru, it is not liberated (SGGS 1128).

    There is no place for caste system in Gurmat. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji introduced the concept of a society with no caste distinction. This concept was followed through by all Gurus.

    What is ignorance or darkness? Material or body consciousness, which gives rise to false ego, is ignorance. Contrary to this, spiritual consciousness is light. Therefore, according to Gurbani, spiritual blindness is the root cause of this disease called pride of caste.

    Recognize the Lord’s Light within all, and do not inquire or consider caste, as there is no caste in the world hereafter (SGGS 349).

    What merits is in the caste? Truthfulness is measured within. Pride in one’s caste is like poison—he who taste it will die (SGGS 142).

    Man's body and caste will not go with him to the world hereafter. Where one is called to answer for his account, there, he will be emancipated only by the practice of Truth (SGGS 112).

    Ego, self-centeredness, excessive anger and pride are the caste of men (SGGS 429).

    This is the nature of ego, that people perform their actions in pride (SGGS 466).

    The Lord is in the soul, and the soul is in the Lord. This is realized through the Guru’s Teachings (1153).

    The caste of God is castelessness; He is unborn, self-illumined, without desire and doubt (SGGS 597).
    Gurmukh jaat pat sach soi: God is the caste and honor of the Gurmukh (SGGS 560).

    The Unique Lord is Peerless, Immortal, unborn, and without caste and involvement (SGGS 838).

    (Before material creation) neither there was female, nor male, nor caste, nor birth nor did any one suffer pain or pleasure (SGGS 1035).

    God has no color, caste and mark; by His Will, He creates the whole world (SGGS 1075).

    The above verses of Gurbani make it very clear that the Lord is casteless. The Lord has no ancestry or family. Therefore, the Self or the soul made in His image is also casteless.

    “What makes you a Brahmin and I merely a Shudra ? If bloodruns in my veins, does milk flow in yours? "- Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Rag Gauri, Page 324

    Gurmukh
    A Gurmukh is a Self-Realized person. Through the grace, he has killed his inner ego. He is jealous of no one; he has become the dust of all; and he ever recites the Nectar Name in the society of the true devotees. Through his selfless devotion, he is completely immersed in the Infinite Consciousness, Waheguru.

    A Gurmukh is casteless. As the Infinite Consciousness or Waheguru is casteless, so is His true devotee. His all actions are selfless. He is purified in and out. He Sees the All-pure in all. He is spiritually wise, and knows the essence of the Divinity. This is the sign of a true Sikh or a spiritual disciple.

    According to Gurbani, a Gurmukh or a true Sikh only identifies with Shabad or Naam, the Lord's name. He sees Waheguru as all there is; in everything, everywhere, and beyond measures. That 's his casteless caste!

    God's Name is the caste, honor, and glory of the True Sikh or Gurmukh (SGGS 230).

    The caste and honor of the Lord's devotees is His Naam (SGGS 768).

    The Name is my caste and honor (SGGS 353).

    God is the caste of the saintly person. You are the Lord; I am just Your puppet (SGGS 667).

    The Name is my caste, the Name is my honor, and the Name is my family (SGGS 713).

    Thus, a pure Sikh or a devotee is beyond any mundane caste and false pride. Because of his pure love and devotion for God, he depends only on God. For that, God is his caste, honor, glory, family, etc.

    According to Gurbani a Gurmukh, a true Sikh or a devotee, is the best among all. He has the intellect and capacity to comprehend the source of the universe. He is knower of the God, and constantly stays linked to Him. His perception is through intuition. Such Gurmukh or a true Sikh is the Self-Realized or God-intoxicated person. He is fully immersed in the pure love and devotion of the Lord. Except for the Waheguru, he knows that everything else is of impermanent nature.

    Effacing my caste, I have become the Lord's courtier (SGGS 875).

    Spiritually elevated person is wisdom-guided. He sees God within an without. Such individual expresses God through his God-guided intelligence, discrimintive thoughts, and God-centered spiritual activities.

    He dwells in a broken-down shack, in tattered clothes, with no social status, no honor and no respect; he wanders in the wilderness, with no friend or lover, without wealth, beauty, relatives or relations. Even so, he is the king of the whole world, if his mind is imbued with the Lord’s Name. With the dust of his feet, men are redeemed, because God is very pleased with him (SGGS 707).

    by Tara Singh

    "Sikhs are gradually weakening themselves by creating social distinctions within Sikhism" (Patwant Singh The Sikhs, page 255)
     
  15. devinesanative

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    Today there is caste system with modern names like Highly Status family , Highly Respected Family , Highly Modern Family .etc

    The Words Status , Respect and Modern are itself has enought meaning .

    What does the adjective "HIGHLY" DOING THERE"

    Can anyone be of Low Status , Low Respectable , Low Modern .


    It seems Highly Respected and Modern families Don't Wear Clothes .
     

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