Atheism Do You Believe In Waheguru

[Harry Haller]

Adminji,

Allow me to clarify my own position, I am not trying to change anyone elses perception of the word, but for some reason, the meaning I hold dear resonates with me.

"Hukam" was there before you were born, before Guru Nanak was born, before the world existed.

In my view gravity is a Hukam, so yes, it was there before I was born, etc etc. Now gravity is an absolute but it is also not an absolute, ie, on the moon, it does not exist, but sticking back to earth, I cannot defy gravity, I can try though, I can stuff so many drugs down me that I could convince myself I could fly, I could climb to the highest building I could find, and soar into the air like a big flying thingy, however, as we both know, I would fall and splat, I would be dead, that is how I view Hukam.

I am not sure how 'hukam" "screams." This is a serious question because I am wondering how different people interpret the word "hukam."

Maybe I have an odd brain, but things scream at me all the time, if I were about to jump off said building, I can guarantee there would be a part of me screaming inside, 'Harry, you can't fly, your going to kill yourself', I find the truth screams at me constantly, I also find the truth consistent with Hukam, ie Hukam is truth, every time I have gone off the rails, it was not because I thought it was ok, I knew it was bad, I knew it was wrong, I knew this because of the screaming, maybe I am in a minority having done lots of bad things, thus, maybe I am more familiar with the screaming, maybe those that have lived good lives know not of the screaming,

I am fairly certain that "his will" and "hukam" are not the same thing.

His will, well, I think his will is for us to do the right thing, help the helpless, be compassionate, be merciful, kind, loving, and that is not always easy, but just as gravity is gravity, I think to be kind and loving is a truth, I guess I feel the way of the Gurmukh is to be following that way, and that to me is to be in Hukam.

Gurmukh follows "his will?" A Gurmukh "turns his face to the Guru," is open to grace, is focused on the jyot which resides within all creation ... but most importantly LIVES in this knowledge

In real terms how do we do this? How do we turn our face to the Guru, how are we open to grace, how do wwe focus on the jyot? well, in my view by doing the right thing, by living the truth, from giving the correct change, to helping another change a tyre, to showing love to Creation, to not ogling women, to not caring what car you drive, to not living your life to make others jealous, all of which I believe is showing respect and being guided by gravity and its associates.

Also, please let me clarify, I am not, and have never intimated I am a scholar, or an academic, I astound myself that everything I have picked up from the game of life seems to gell so well with the teachings of Sikhism, if I am wrong here, I do not mean to confuse or influence others, I will cease using the word Hukam if my own interpretation is missing the mark.

 

[spnadmin]

Manmukhs are doing all the screaming -- Hukam is not screaming.

And on the issue of "simran" - I am also wondering how various minds understand "simran" or why it would be connected to certain times of day.


ਜਿਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਤਰੈ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
Jis man vasai ṯarai jan so▫e.
Those whose minds are filled with the Lord, swim across.

Gurmukh is the one whose mind is filled with the Lord -- hukam is a settled matter

ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕਰਮਿ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
Jā kai karam parāpaṯ ho▫e.
Those who have been blessed with goodness, meet with the Lord.

When we acknowledge the gift of our own inner virtue - that already we contain the Sat - then we meet the Sat, the all pervading one.

ਦੂਖੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਕਛੁ ਭਉ ਨ ਬਿਆਪੈ ॥
Ḏūkẖ rog kacẖẖ bẖa▫o na bi▫āpai.
Pain, disease and fear do not affect them at all.

Hukam is a settled matter, and we may be in pain but we do not suffer.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪੈ ॥੧॥
Amriṯ nām riḏai har jāpai. ||1||
They meditate on the Ambrosial Name of the Lord within their hearts. ||1||

Our hearts already contain the goodness of Har naam. We have only to act on that understanding.

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥
Pārbarahm parmesur ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai.
Meditate on the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord.

Find that all pervading truth of the universe, see it within you.

ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਤੇ ਇਹ ਮਤਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Gur pūre ṯe ih maṯ pā▫ī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
From the Perfect Guru, this understanding is obtained. ||1||Pause||

Understanding is the gift; the Guru is the giver.

ਕਰਣ ਕਰਾਵਨਹਾਰ ਦਇਆਲ ॥
Karaṇ karāvanhār ḏa▫i▫āl.
The Merciful Lord is the Doer, the Cause of causes.

We cannot cooperate with Hukam or fight against it, wittingly or unwittingly. Peace comes in understanding that Kartar Purakhu is the only giver.

ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਗਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥
Jī▫a janṯ sagle parṯipāl.
He cherishes and nurtures all beings and creatures.

Accept this and you will calm down.

ਅਗਮ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਸਦਾ ਬੇਅੰਤਾ ॥
Agam agocẖar saḏā be▫anṯā.
He is Inaccessible, Incomprehensible, Eternal and Infinite.

Don't try to analyze it, because HE and his hukam are greater than, and therefore beyond human comprehension.

ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤਾ ॥੨॥
Simar manā pūre gur mannṯā. ||2||
Meditate on Him, O my mind, through the Teachings of the Perfect Guru. ||2||

This is self-explanatory.

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥
Jā kī sevā sarab niḏẖān.
Serving Him, all treasures are obtained.

Nothing else is quite as important, as valuable, as worthwhile.


The following lines tell you how to go on with your life in hukam, at peace, in harmony with the Sat. However, worshipping and singing and working can take many forms.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
Parabẖ kī pūjā pā▫ī▫ai mān.
Worshipping God, honor is obtained.

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਟਹਲ ਨ ਬਿਰਥੀ ਜਾਇ ॥
Jā kī tahal na birthī jā▫e.
Working for Him is never in vain;

ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੩॥
Saḏā saḏā har ke guṇ gā▫e. ||3||
forever and ever, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||3||

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥
Kar kirpā parabẖ anṯarjāmī.
Show Mercy to me, O God, O Searcher of hearts.

Kar kirpa comes from only one source. Don't turn your journey into an obstacle course, rather turn to the one who gives without taking, and accept what is given.

ਸੁਖ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਹਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥
Sukẖ niḏẖān har alakẖ su▫āmī.
The Unseen Lord and Master is the Treasure of Peace.

ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥
Jī▫a janṯ ṯerī sarṇā▫ī.
All beings and creatures seek Your Sanctuary;

We do, but sometimes we don't realize that is what we are doing, therefore we seek in places that make life painful for us.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੪॥੨੫॥੯੪॥
Nānak nām milai vadi▫ā▫ī. ||4||25||94||
Nanak is blessed to receive the greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
||4||25||94||

Realize that we are blessed. The blessings Karams have already been given; kar kirpa is complete and boundless; when the light bulb goes off and we know we are already in possession of goodness, it is easier to be the goodness; suffering ends.

 

[chazSingh]

I think it is the Manmukh who is struggling with the prospect of surrender to "his will" and struggling so hard that he/she loses sight of "hukam."

all i know is if my mind is overworking on past events, and anxious or focussed too much on the future, i feel stressed, uneasy etc etc...it makes my life hell...manmukh

When i focus on today...and accept my surroundings and life situation and decide what i can do 'today' in line with Gurbani, following my heart and deep inner feelings (not my mind) with positive actions, then i don;t need to worry about the future...i believe God/Guru will take care of the rest.

God Bless

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Manmukhs are doing all the screaming -- Hukam is not screaming.

And on the issue of "simran" - I also wondering how various minds understand "simran" or why it would be connected to certain times of day.


ਜਿਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਤਰੈ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
Jis man vasai ṯarai jan so▫e.
Those whose minds are filled with the Lord, swim across.

Gurmukh is the one whose mind is filled with the Lord -- hukam is a settled matter

ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕਰਮਿ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
Jā kai karam parāpaṯ ho▫e.
Those who have been blessed with goodness, meet with the Lord.

When we acknowledge the gift of our own inner virtue - that already we contain the Sat - then we meet the Sat, the all pervading one.

ਦੂਖੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਕਛੁ ਭਉ ਨ ਬਿਆਪੈ ॥
Ḏūkẖ rog kacẖẖ bẖa▫o na bi▫āpai.
Pain, disease and fear do not affect them at all.

Hukam is a settled matter, and we may be in pain but we do not suffer.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪੈ ॥੧॥
Amriṯ nām riḏai har jāpai. ||1||
They meditate on the Ambrosial Name of the Lord within their hearts. ||1||

Our hearts already contain the goodness of Har naam. We have only to act on that understanding.

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥
Pārbarahm parmesur ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai.
Meditate on the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord.

Find that all pervading truth of the universe, see it within you.

ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਤੇ ਇਹ ਮਤਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Gur pūre ṯe ih maṯ pā▫ī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
From the Perfect Guru, this understanding is obtained. ||1||Pause||

Understanding is the gift; the Guru is the giver.

ਕਰਣ ਕਰਾਵਨਹਾਰ ਦਇਆਲ ॥
Karaṇ karāvanhār ḏa▫i▫āl.
The Merciful Lord is the Doer, the Cause of causes.

We cannot cooperate with Hukam or fight against it, wittingly or unwittingly. Peace comes in understanding that Kartar Purakhu is the only giver.

ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਗਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥
Jī▫a janṯ sagle parṯipāl.
He cherishes and nurtures all beings and creatures.

Accept this and you will calm down.

ਅਗਮ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਸਦਾ ਬੇਅੰਤਾ ॥
Agam agocẖar saḏā be▫anṯā.
He is Inaccessible, Incomprehensible, Eternal and Infinite.

Don't try to analyze it, because HE and his hukam are greater than, and therefore beyond human comprehension.

ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤਾ ॥੨॥
Simar manā pūre gur mannṯā. ||2||
Meditate on Him, O my mind, through the Teachings of the Perfect Guru. ||2||

This is self-explanatory.

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥
Jā kī sevā sarab niḏẖān.
Serving Him, all treasures are obtained.

Nothing else is quite as important, as valuable, as worthwhile.


The following lines tell you how to go on with your life in hukam, at peace, in harmony with the Sat. However, worshipping and singing and working can take many forms.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
Parabẖ kī pūjā pā▫ī▫ai mān.
Worshipping God, honor is obtained.

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਟਹਲ ਨ ਬਿਰਥੀ ਜਾਇ ॥
Jā kī tahal na birthī jā▫e.
Working for Him is never in vain;

ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੩॥
Saḏā saḏā har ke guṇ gā▫e. ||3||
forever and ever, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||3||

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥
Kar kirpā parabẖ anṯarjāmī.
Show Mercy to me, O God, O Searcher of hearts.

Kar kirpa comes from only one source. Don't turn your journey into an obstacle course, rather turn to the one who gives without taking, and accept what is given.

ਸੁਖ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਹਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥
Sukẖ niḏẖān har alakẖ su▫āmī.
The Unseen Lord and Master is the Treasure of Peace.

ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥
Jī▫a janṯ ṯerī sarṇā▫ī.
All beings and creatures seek Your Sanctuary;

We do, but sometimes we don't realize that is what we are doing, therefore we seek in places that make life painful for us.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੪॥੨੫॥੯੪॥
Nānak nām milai vadi▫ā▫ī. ||4||25||94||
Nanak is blessed to receive the greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
||4||25||94||

Realize that we are blessed.

Loved it!!

Thanks jio.

 

[spnadmin]

all i know is if my mind is overworking on past events, and anxious or focussed too much on the future, i feel stressed, uneasy etc etc...it makes my life hell...manmukh

When i focus on today...and accept my surroundings and life situation and decide what i can do 'today' in line with Gurbani, following my heart and deep inner feelings (not my mind) with positive actions, then i don;t need to worry about the future...i believe God/Guru will take care of the rest.

God Bless

I felt that I was talking mumbo-jumbo chazSingh ji. The work of the Sat is done. All of us are manmukh nearly all of the time. So I added this:

Realize that we are blessed. The blessings Karams have already been given; kar kirpa is complete and boundless; when the light bulb goes off and we know we are already in possession of goodness, it is easier to be the goodness; suffering ends.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Doctor's sad less sugar, salt and fat if one do less physical work,

message went to conscious mind.

Next day a nice dinner, with ice cream, pizzas and so on mind slipped with senses.

ate lot of sugar, fat and salt,

though conscious mind was saying no and no.


This is "Duality" or "Dubidha"

One is not "One" within self but "Dual"

One has to choose one, choose line for self to make self one, than only one can connect with "ONE"

Oh God "Duality"

Light is one but comes in wave form "positive" and "negative".

"True Nature" has given "Duality" to light,

and

give awareness of "True Nature" for human mind to overcome "Duality"

This is "True Nature"

either or nor hinduism, sikhism, chritanity, muslim.
Neither Me or He or She

but only

"ONE"

"GURU's" experienced "ONE"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Harry Haller]

Manmukhs are doing all the screaming -- Hukam is not screaming.

And on the issue of "simran" - I am also wondering how various minds understand "simran" or why it would be connected to certain times of day.


ਜਿਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਤਰੈ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥
Jis man vasai ṯarai jan so▫e.
Those whose minds are filled with the Lord, swim across.

Gurmukh is the one whose mind is filled with the Lord -- hukam is a settled matter

ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕਰਮਿ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
Jā kai karam parāpaṯ ho▫e.
Those who have been blessed with goodness, meet with the Lord.

When we acknowledge the gift of our own inner virtue - that already we contain the Sat - then we meet the Sat, the all pervading one.

ਦੂਖੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਕਛੁ ਭਉ ਨ ਬਿਆਪੈ ॥
Ḏūkẖ rog kacẖẖ bẖa▫o na bi▫āpai.
Pain, disease and fear do not affect them at all.

Hukam is a settled matter, and we may be in pain but we do not suffer.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪੈ ॥੧॥
Amriṯ nām riḏai har jāpai. ||1||
They meditate on the Ambrosial Name of the Lord within their hearts. ||1||

Our hearts already contain the goodness of Har naam. We have only to act on that understanding.

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥
Pārbarahm parmesur ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai.
Meditate on the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord.

Find that all pervading truth of the universe, see it within you.

ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਤੇ ਇਹ ਮਤਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Gur pūre ṯe ih maṯ pā▫ī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
From the Perfect Guru, this understanding is obtained. ||1||Pause||

Understanding is the gift; the Guru is the giver.

ਕਰਣ ਕਰਾਵਨਹਾਰ ਦਇਆਲ ॥
Karaṇ karāvanhār ḏa▫i▫āl.
The Merciful Lord is the Doer, the Cause of causes.

We cannot cooperate with Hukam or fight against it, wittingly or unwittingly. Peace comes in understanding that Kartar Purakhu is the only giver.

ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਗਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥
Jī▫a janṯ sagle parṯipāl.
He cherishes and nurtures all beings and creatures.

Accept this and you will calm down.

ਅਗਮ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਸਦਾ ਬੇਅੰਤਾ ॥
Agam agocẖar saḏā be▫anṯā.
He is Inaccessible, Incomprehensible, Eternal and Infinite.

Don't try to analyze it, because HE and his hukam are greater than, and therefore beyond human comprehension.

ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤਾ ॥੨॥
Simar manā pūre gur mannṯā. ||2||
Meditate on Him, O my mind, through the Teachings of the Perfect Guru. ||2||

This is self-explanatory.

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥
Jā kī sevā sarab niḏẖān.
Serving Him, all treasures are obtained.

Nothing else is quite as important, as valuable, as worthwhile.


The following lines tell you how to go on with your life in hukam, at peace, in harmony with the Sat. However, worshipping and singing and working can take many forms.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
Parabẖ kī pūjā pā▫ī▫ai mān.
Worshipping God, honor is obtained.

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਟਹਲ ਨ ਬਿਰਥੀ ਜਾਇ ॥
Jā kī tahal na birthī jā▫e.
Working for Him is never in vain;

ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੩॥
Saḏā saḏā har ke guṇ gā▫e. ||3||
forever and ever, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||3||

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥
Kar kirpā parabẖ anṯarjāmī.
Show Mercy to me, O God, O Searcher of hearts.

Kar kirpa comes from only one source. Don't turn your journey into an obstacle course, rather turn to the one who gives without taking, and accept what is given.

ਸੁਖ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਹਰਿ ਅਲਖ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥
Sukẖ niḏẖān har alakẖ su▫āmī.
The Unseen Lord and Master is the Treasure of Peace.

ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥
Jī▫a janṯ ṯerī sarṇā▫ī.
All beings and creatures seek Your Sanctuary;

We do, but sometimes we don't realize that is what we are doing, therefore we seek in places that make life painful for us.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੪॥੨੫॥੯੪॥
Nānak nām milai vadi▫ā▫ī. ||4||25||94||
Nanak is blessed to receive the greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
||4||25||94||

Realize that we are blessed. The blessings Karams have already been given; kar kirpa is complete and boundless; when the light bulb goes off and we know we are already in possession of goodness, it is easier to be the goodness; suffering ends.

Adminji

Your reply is undeniably definitive, I see you as much higher than me on this ladder, and I see your reply as a hand waving in my face, offering me something to grab in order to climb up a rung. Do I understand it completely, no, Can I embrace it at this point in time, not sure, is there enough doubt in my head to see my definition as flawed, probably, it requires much more thought on the matter, so a reply now would not be fair, however it is much food for thought, thank you.

I will think about it during this evenings dog walk!

 

[chazSingh]

For SPNAdmin

Simran for me can be done anytime of the day (which i already do) - i'm sat at work at this precise second, thinking of God, treating my work as serving God, and trying to be honest, kind to my work colleagues...that to me is also Simran.

I try to do charity work like i am serving God, and Serving the god in others etc etc

I don;t do this for any reward, but i feel some peace doing it.

But, i'm also getting this yearning type of feeling, very deep inside like something is missing, or i need to something more that i haven;t got/done (that i know of) already...if that makes sense...this yearning isn't going away...i'm feeling it now.

No amount of Seva, being kind, giving charity is getting rid of this feeling...what do i do?

Gurbani tells me to look within if you wish to seek God...

How do i do this? through the 9 doors of the body my attention is on the outside...my mind is racing around during the day. I can't find regular time during the day to just 'sit', close my eyes, and shut out all outer sounds and just 'Be' .. to just breath..

so after 6-7 months of trying to sit quietly like this in a local Gurdwara - and before sleep on some days (which both worked well) i still couldnt calm this yearning...i then tried the early hours, between 2am and 5am...wife would be sleeping, no distractions from anyone...dark room, no sounds... just me, my mind, and i guess God Within...

and for the first time, i felt something i never felt before...and if i did this regularly, the thirst would be quenched somewhat, a feeling of being re-charged and ready for my day ahead in a way i've never felt...

So, i keep doing Simran during the day, listen to shabad, work as usual...but i've found this time in the early hours which for Me is quenching my thirst a little more than anything else i do...which i thankfully fall at guru ji's feet for, because on some days it was unbearable.

Hope this helps..God Bless

 

[spnadmin]

,

Adminji

Your reply is undeniably definitive, I see you as much higher than me on this ladder, and I see your reply as a hand waving in my face, offering me something to grab in order to climb up a rung. Do I understand it completely, no, Can I embrace it at this point in time, not sure, is there enough doubt in my head to see my definition as flawed, probably, it requires much more thought on the matter, so a reply now would not be fair, however it is much food for thought, thank you.

I will think about it during this evenings dog walk!

pyaare jio

Two things. My reply cannot be definitive because my thoughts need to be enriched with every day I have left. It would be sad if I "got it" and there was nothing more to explore. Then I would know that I had found very little. The great giver keeps on giving... so there is a lot there. And then, there is no high and there is no low on this ladder you speak of. We are where hukam takes us. I mean this.

One thing that always irks me is when someone says, "We are all at different places on this journey, " as if some are near and some are far from the destination. Maybe they don't mean that. If I have given a hand to grasp, that works for me, because reverence is hard for me, and if I helped, it tells me me that something I said made sense to you -- which means that I was able to revere your words.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

One has not to go to places, Guru Dwara, Mandir, Math's, Masjid's, to seek or achieve silence.

Dear sikhs,
Silence of mind is not external, they are not so disturbing,
but inside one's mind own desires are creating sounds, one can not leave,
understand the sound within.

Just to go in and search within self,

Making your mind desire less (Mokh Prapti) for a while,
to achieve silence,

not to seek place outside.

Open all Dwar's, living in this world, not leaving this world.
but stay desire less within self,

No need to close any door.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[spnadmin]

chazSingh ji


Please do not think I am arguing with you. What should you do? I can't tell you what to do. Keep with your simran as you do it. I am sure that you do much more than that. I am only adding my perspective at this point. Much as been said about finding sehaj. To me the issue is not the seeking or finding of sehaj. Rather, what should one do once realizing that one had access to it all along.

 

[chazSingh]

chazSingh ji


Please do not think I am arguing with you. What should you do? I can't tell you what to do. Keep with your simran as you do it. I am sure that you do much more than that. I am only adding my perspective at this point. Much as been said about finding sehaj. To me the issue is not the seeking or finding of sehaj. Rather, what should one do once realizing that one had access to it all along.

sorry, Ji, it wasn't a question to you personally...just my style of writing...its me crying out to myself.."what should i do"


I believe we have access to it all the time, because it's our true nature...we've just lost our way.
But i also believe losing our way is medicine for our return back, and with that experience we will know even more of our true self and appreciate it more...through experiencing the opposite.

 

[spnadmin]

s

I believe we have access to it all the time, because it's our true nature...we've just lost our way.
But i also believe losing our way is medicine for our return back, and with that experience we will know even more of our true self and appreciate it more...through experiencing the opposite.

Why do you believe that? It is an interesting comment.

What does "lost" mean and how does "return back" work?

What is "true self?"

How do we know more and appreciate more by experiencing "the opposite?"

What are we doing when we experience "the opposite?"

 

[Harry Haller]

,

pyaare jio

Two things. My reply cannot be definitive because my thoughts need to be enriched with every day I have left. It would be sad if I "got it" and there was nothing more to explore. Then I would know that I had found very little. The great giver keeps on giving... so there is a lot there. And then, there is no high and there is no low on this ladder you speak of. We are where hukam takes us. I mean this.

One thing that always irks me is when someone says, "We are all at different places on this journey, " as if some are near and some are far from the destination. Maybe they don't mean that. If I have given a hand to grasp, that works for me, because reverence is hard for me, and if I helped, it tells me me that something I said made sense to you -- which means that I was able to revere your words.

Beloved sister,

I have always tried to write honestly, despite the fact that sometimes the content can be close to the bone, but what we have opened up here is a veritable hornets nest, in truth, in my heart, maybe I have turned Hukam into what I would like it to be, rather than what it actually is, and that is hard for me to face, as it begs what else in my life is actually solid, or just another convenient truth, your reply is very gracious , but what you have quoted is pretty unquestionable, it changes things, it requires much contemplation, I feel pretty much the way I did when I found out the tooth fairy was actually my mum, mind you that was only a few weeks ago.........

I need to think again on the matter, it is sad, yet exciting at the same time,

 

[Luckysingh]

For SPNAdmin

Simran for me can be done anytime of the day (which i already do) - i'm sat at work at this precise second, thinking of God, treating my work as serving God, and trying to be honest, kind to my work colleagues...that to me is also Simran.

I try to do charity work like i am serving God, and Serving the god in others etc etc

I don;t do this for any reward, but i feel some peace doing it.

But, i'm also getting this yearning type of feeling, very deep inside like something is missing, or i need to something more that i haven;t got/done (that i know of) already...if that makes sense...this yearning isn't going away...i'm feeling it now.

No amount of Seva, being kind, giving charity is getting rid of this feeling...what do i do?

Gurbani tells me to look within if you wish to seek God...

I know exactly what you mean with the above !!!
I too can spend all day in simran whereby I feel God resonating everywhere and in all my actions. I try to behave in a gurmat manner in all my actions.
I like to think of myself as not doing anyone any favours as such but as a duty of serving mankind and the God creator around and within us.

But somehow, all this seva, gurmat behavior etc..that I don't think sometimes I could even MAX out anymore in the day somehow does not give me that word i call 'Anand'- I don't seem to feel this 'anand' as I call it, because I feel that something was still missing !!!

It's quite tricky to really pinpoint, but I think it is about being in a Sehaj state 24/7.
However, for a weak and low level person like me, i need this extra activity or tool of meditation to help me find and experience that God within me.
AND somehow, I can get this feeling of anand sometimes if I do this !!
(..I know... sounds a little crazy as if i'm an addict chasing that vibe)

What is this anand exactly ??
Well, It's not anything like the pleasure you get with intoxicants or liquor and it is not something attainable at will either.
You know how sometimes you may listen to a song or piece of music and it may hit that chord within you and you get goose pimples or feel the hairs on your neck!!!
OR you get that deep feeling of love and unity deep down in your chest that feels as if it took your breath away ??
A little similar in the sense that both these feelings cannot be experienced at will just like this anand, but certain factors can surely influence it.

However, I also find that listening to certain kirtan or gurbani shabads can also evoke that feeling of anand. But then again, I can still never predict it.

 

[spnadmin]

Dhan Dhan Guru Amardas ji

On Ang 1376 a salok of only 2 verses, sandwiched among the saloks of Sant Kabir ji

ਚਿੰਤਾ ਭਿ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਇਸੀ ਅਚਿੰਤੁ ਭਿ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਇ ॥
Chinthaa Bh Aap Karaaeisee Achinth Bh Aapae Dhaee ||
God Himself makes the mortals anxious, and He Himself takes the anxiety away.


ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਜਿ ਸਭਨਾ ਸਾਰ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੨੨੦॥
Naanak So Saalaaheeai J Sabhanaa Saar Karaee ||220||
O Nanak, praise the One, who takes care of all. ||220||

 

[Harry Haller]

Adminbigsisji,

And then, there is no high and there is no low on this ladder you speak of. We are where hukam takes us. I mean this.

I am having severe difficulty embracing this, and at 4 o clock this morning, I realised why. Sure, I have been through the mill like many of us here, but there is one difference between my lives and many others..

I bear a small scar on my chest, it is where I smashed into a steering wheel in a car accident, only it was not an accident. Drunk to the point of passing out, I decided it would be a good idea to drive the car into the house at 2am.

I have had three heart attacks, the first one was in a hotel room, surrounded by various substances, with a lady of the night, the second, similarly, you get the picture.

I have been bankrupted twice, due to the several hundred thousand wagered at London Casinos,

Yet, when I read the stories of others, the pain they have gone through, the life they have had, the challanges, it is not due to Panga, it is not due to the self, it is due to circumstances, bad luck, call it what you will.

Lying in my bed, at 4am, I suddenly realised that nothing bad has ever happened to me out of the blue, nothing, I have vivid memories of voices, thoughhts, warning me, trying to hold me back, but my will was too strong, too determined, that, I think puts me in a very different place to someone who has lost a child at birth, or been hit by a truck, I have absolutely no concept of acceptance, how could I? When bad things happen, I look back and think, wish I had not done that, in fact, given the charmed life I have led, if I had never done any of those things, and found Sikhism at say, 20, where would I be now, healthy, settled, happy.

I have never had to deal with a problem and find strength to deal with it without knowing that it came from my own hand, to some extent that makes me a spoilt brat

One thing that always irks me is when someone says, "We are all at different places on this journey, " as if some are near and some are far from the destination

But surely we are, I cannot in a million years fathom what it feels like to lose a child, my needs from Sikhism cannot be the same as someone that has no arms, or a starving child in Africa, my needs are so petty and irrelevant in the big scheme of things, they centre around leading a clean life and staying away from Panga, yet, to a starving mother in Africa who cannot feed her baby, these must seem like the most pointless and stupid facets to worry about, I agree it is not about near and far, but I think we all seek what we need from Sikhi, and I feel I need to state, I have no idea about the concept of acceptance, and as you have quoted a shabad which is, on the whole, about acceptance, that is why I have difficulty understanding, and possibly why my meaning of the word Hukam is off target.

I would like to reopen a thread on the subject, I think Hukam is one of the most misunderstood concepts in Sikhism, I feel my efforts have no bearing other than my own personal experiences, and if we all contribute and post shabads, maybe we can all learn something.

P.S. the screaming, as I sat in my car, facing the drive, something inside me screamed not to turn the ignition, I laughed, and turned the ignition, then something screamed not to put it into drive, I laughed and put it into drive, finally, something screamed not to floor it, I paused, did my best madman laugh, and the next thing I knew, I was in my kitchen. If some people come from good, and the bad screams at them, I can understand that, I can even envy it, but that is not my experience, it is the bad that dominates me, dominated me, not the good, the good is so small, so tiny, it has to scream to be heard

 

[ravneet_sb]

I know exactly what you mean with the above !!!
I too can spend all day in simran whereby I feel God resonating everywhere and in all my actions. I try to behave in a gurmat manner in all my actions.
I like to think of myself as not doing anyone any favours as such but as a duty of serving mankind and the God creator around and within us.

But somehow, all this seva, gurmat behavior etc..that I don't think sometimes I could even MAX out anymore in the day somehow does not give me that word i call 'Anand'- I don't seem to feel this 'anand' as I call it, because I feel that something was still missing !!!

It's quite tricky to really pinpoint, but I think it is about being in a Sehaj state 24/7.
However, for a weak and low level person like me, i need this extra activity or tool of meditation to help me find and experience that God within me.
AND somehow, I can get this feeling of anand sometimes if I do this !!
(..I know... sounds a little crazy as if i'm an addict chasing that vibe)

What is this anand exactly ??
Well, It's not anything like the pleasure you get with intoxicants or liquor and it is not something attainable at will either.
You know how sometimes you may listen to a song or piece of music and it may hit that chord within you and you get goose pimples or feel the hairs on your neck!!!
OR you get that deep feeling of love and unity deep down in your chest that feels as if it took your breath away ??
A little similar in the sense that both these feelings cannot be experienced at will just like this anand, but certain factors can surely influence it.

However, I also find that listening to certain kirtan or gurbani shabads can also evoke that feeling of anand. But then again, I can still never predict it.

Sat Sri Akaal,

Anand is a feeling which comes to relaxed mind, which is in a state of zero desire, which is difficult to achieve,
Guru's Bani wisdom gives the way to achieve the STATE

Name of the saint "VIVEKANAND" happiness lies in wisdom of nullness
not by attaining materials,

One who's mind is engrossed in material has to take the physical process of achieving it.

Choice belongs to self for creating null

Control of desires to make mind to null level
Fulfill desires of mind to make it null

This is peace which brings happiness,
Nothing from jungle's tirath's, etc
Just exploring one's own mind to settle to null for

PEACE & HAPPINESS

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

,

pyaare jio

Two things. My reply cannot be definitive because my thoughts need to be enriched with every day I have left. It would be sad if I "got it" and there was nothing more to explore. Then I would know that I had found very little. The great giver keeps on giving... so there is a lot there. And then, there is no high and there is no low on this ladder you speak of. We are where hukam takes us. I mean this.

One thing that always irks me is when someone says, "We are all at different places on this journey, " as if some are near and some are far from the destination. Maybe they don't mean that. If I have given a hand to grasp, that works for me, because reverence is hard for me, and if I helped, it tells me me that something I said made sense to you -- which means that I was able to revere your words.

I have had to really do some thinking on this one because I'm one of the people who often uses the line about being at different places on the journey. I think the perspective changes when I think of the journey as the journey inward. No one is any closer or farther away than anyone else. However, each of us has had different experiences, different realizations that we can share with each other, use as encouragement or just express wonder at. Also there are some that cannot be shared, although their effects may be visible.

As we grow older and amass more experience, it all looks very different to us. A shabad that I studied when I was 20 will have a much different meaning for me at 61 than it did then. Even mundane life experiences change their meanings. Walking to the mailbox to gather my snail mail is very different now than it was even a few years ago.

I admit that when I use the metaphor of the journey, I do sometimes picture it in a linear form with us all walking along sort sort of pathway, but I see now that that is simply wrong. Right now the non linear model of each of us at once alone and together making the journey inward makes much more sense. After all, isn't that exactly what the Saadh Sangat is? And perhaps it's a bit less irritating.

 

[spnadmin]

chazsingh ji

I think you over interpret my comments. Nothing I mentioned had to do with variety of experiences. My most recent comments were directed to harry ji. I will repeat my thoughts: hukam is a settled matter. Hukam belongs to the creator; the creator is the giver of all gifts; there is no high nor low in Sikhi. These are not my opinions. Gurbani tells us this.

General comments: My concern as directed to harry ji is that, if we compare experiences, we might find ourselves lower than the next person. That may cause spiritual despair.

Yes of course "we" all experience differently, because our lives are different. What could be more obvious than observing that we change, and see things differently when we do? Seeing things differently and experiencing things differently does not change Hukam. (Which is not an opinion.)

Does Hukam make some higher and some lower, some better and some worse, or gold better than dust? Sukhmani Sahib holds the key.

By continued public discussion of spiritual experiences, which will all be different, a person is bringing something private to a social platform which a forum is. That is my opinion.

To chasSingh ji: Earlier, I did ask you to clarify somethings you mentioned. And I don't see that you have done that. Maybe you will today.

Your comment is deleted because I have already warned you not to post single tuks. When I erased only the tuks last time, they were edited back in. This time my friend the entire comment must go.