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Do Sikhs need another Guru?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Archived_member2, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all!

    Do Sikhs need another Guru than the true Sabad Guru? Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee also suggests the same Sabad Guru.
    What are your views? Please express it.


    Balbir Singh
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    Balbir ji

    A good question because it should motivate responses from those seeking spiritual identity beyond and outside of the Shabad Guru. Interesting who they might be or if they might respond.
     
  4. carolineislands

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    I can only speak for myself and I will say that I find it is better for me spiritually to stick to SGGS. There are so many opposing factions out there and, not only do I not want to waste time, I don't want to pick up any more negativity along the way because it hinders my spiritual progress. I've been asking questions about some of the different groups in Sikhism and I think I have a general idea of the major groups and their fundamental differences but beyond that I don't see any point in trying to judge who is right or wrong, when the SGGS offers me more wisdom than I could ever conceive of even if I were to read it every waking moment for the rest of my life. I figure I can't really go wrong by sticking to SGGS and listening to the voice of my Husband Lord -- all those other roads have too many potholes for me.
     
  5. pk70

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    Carolineislands Ji

    Well said. That is what a Sikh needs to think.
     
  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    A bold comment, Aad Ji. It is often misunderstood what Shabad Guru is. Some say shabad are the written words. So here's an extract of Bhai Nand Lal Rehit Nama to understand what is Shabad Guru.

    *Rehatnama Bhai Nand Lal


    [Prashan-uttar (Q&A) Attributed to Nand Lal]

    Nand Lal speaks:

    Doha
    'You say that we should behold your presence, O Master. Tell me where we are to find you.' (5)

    the Guru speaks:

    Doha

    'Listen attentively, Nand (Lal). I am manifested in Three ways : the formless or invisible (nirgun), the material or visible (sargun), and the divine Word (gur-shabad). This I shall explain to you. (6)

    Chaupai

    'The first of these transcends all that is material . It is the neti neti of the Vedas, the spirit which dwells in every heart as light permeates the water held in a vessel.' (7)
    'The second is the sacred scripture. This you must accept as part of me , treating its letters as the hairs of my body , This truly is so,' 8
    'Sikhs who wish to see the Guru will do so when they come to the Granth. He who is wise will bathe at dawn and then will walk thrice around (the sacred Granth). (9)

    Dohara

    Come with reverence and sit in my presence. Humbly bow and hear the words of the Guru Granth.

    Chaupai

    Hear the Word with devout affection for the Guru. Hear the Guru's Word of wisdom and read it that others may also hear.
    The person who wishes to converse with me should read the granth and reflect on what it says. (10)
    The person who wishes to hear my words should devoutly hear and reflect on the Granth. Acknowledge the Granth as my visible presence , rejecting the notion that it is other than me. (11)
    The third form is my Sikh, that Sikh who day and night is immersed in the words of sacred scripture (gurabani). The Sikh who loves and trusts the Word of the Guru is an ever-present manifestation of the Guru, (12)
    Such a Sikh is the one who hears the Guru's words of wisdom and reads them so that others may hear. Attentively he reads both Japuji and Jap, visiting places sanctified by the Gurus (guradavaran) and strictly avoiding adulterous liaisons. (13)
    The Gursikh who is faithful in service will find himself cleansed from all sense of self-dependence. He who is scrupulous in performing these obligations is the Sikh in whom I am made manifest. (14)

    Dohara
    Worthy is the Sikh who serves with devotion, expressing his obedience to me in the generous offerings, which he makes. (15)
    Such is the service which I receive from a Gursikh. Hear me , Nand (Lal).
    Giving himself he finds the deliverance which carries him to Paradise (baikunthe) (16)

    Nand Lal speaks :

    You have told me of three forms, Master: the invisible, the visble, and the Guru's Word . The invisible form we cannot see, and the visble is the obedient Sikh. (17)

    Chaupai
    How can we comprehend the infinity of your invisible form? The universe is your form, you whom we call Master , and your presence mystically pervades every heart . (How then can we perceive you ?) 18

    The Guru Speaks :

    You are a devout Sikh , Nand Lal . Hear this divine message which I impart to you. See the Guru as visible presence in his Sikhs and first you must serve me by diligently serving them (19)
    Next you must serve me by singing the divine Word , accepting it as truly a sign . He who accepts the scriture as the (Guru's) Word shall come to an understanding of (his) infinite being . (20)
    And so I conclude this homily , Brother. He who reads or hears it and pays careful heed to it will find himself the object of much admiration, his spirit mystically blended in Mine .
    This message of comfort and joy was delivered on the ninth day of the waxing moon in the month of Maghar, S. 1752 (4 December 1695 CE ) . Let the Guru's praises be eveywhere sung declares Nand Lal . (22)
     
  7. spnadmin

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    NamJapji

    A bold comment, Aad Ji. It is often misunderstood what Shabad Guru is. Some say shabad are the written words. So here's an extract of Bhai Nand Lal Rehit Nama to understand what is Shabad Guru.

    What is so bold about what I said? Shabad Guru is the medium, the message, and the messenger. His words, His treasure, and His voice. His words are the medium and His treasure is the message. He speaks in His voice.


    ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਮੈ ਮਿਲੈ ਹਉ ਜੀਵਾ ਸਦੁ ਸੁਣੇ ॥੨॥
    naanak so prabh mai milai ho jeevaa sadh sunae ||2||
    O Nanak, meeting with that God, I live, hearing His Voice. ||2||

    Pretty basic stuff.
    Now I will read what you posted below. Had to get those thoughts out of my system
    :roll:
     
    #6 spnadmin, Apr 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2008
  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    As Caroline Ji puts it, all those other roads have too many potholes for me - this also applies to me. SGGS alone has ( while other means have lasted only a while) given me the inner peace and the contentment I have been yeaning for all my seeking life.

    During my attendance for a children's programme on Vaisakhi in Seremban, I found uplifting estacy within myself and realized that going to every satsang should have been such an experience.
     
  9. spnadmin

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    ਮੈ ਆਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਛਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    mai aapanaa gur pooshh dhaekhiaa avar naahee thhaao ||1|l
    I consulted my Guru, and now I see that there is no other place at all.
     
  10. Anonymous_Kaur

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    sabh sikhon kau hukam hai guru manyeo GRATNH !!!y do we need another guru...wen all da answers lies in da gurugranth sahib jiii !!
     
  11. singhbj

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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh

    Shabad Guru includes Gurbani of Guru Gobind Singh ji.

    Guru Gobind Singh ji ordered the SINGHS to do Nitnem of following Bani's

    1. Jap ji Sahib
    2. Jaap Sahib
    3. Tav Prasad Swaiye
    4. Chaupai Sahib
    5. anand Sahib

    6. Rehras Sahib

    7. Kirtan Sohila

    8. Ardaas (Vaar Sri Bhagauti ji ki Patshahi 10)

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ
    आसा महला ५ ॥
    Āsā mehlā 5.
    Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:
    ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਆਤਮ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ
    सदा सदा आतम परगासु ॥
    Saḏā saḏā āṯam pargās.
    Forever and ever, the soul is illumined;
    ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
    साधसंगति हरि चरण निवासु ॥१॥
    Sāḏẖsangaṯ har cẖaraṇ nivās. ||1||
    in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, it dwells at the Feet of the Lord. ||1||
    ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਤਿ ਜਪਿ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ
    राम नाम निति जपि मन मेरे ॥
    Rām nām niṯ jap man mėrė.
    Chant the Lord's Name each and every day, O my mind.
    ਸੀਤਲ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਜਾਹਿ ਸਭੇ ਮਨ ਤੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    सीतल सांति सदा सुख पावहि किलविख जाहि सभे मन तेरे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Sīṯal sāʼnṯ saḏā sukẖ pāvahi kilvikẖ jāhi sabẖė man ṯėrė. ||1|| rahā­o.
    You shall find lasting peace, contentment and tranquility, and all your sins shall depart. ||1||Pause||
    ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਪੂਰਨ ਕਰਮ
    कहु नानक जा के पूरन करम ॥
    Kaho Nānak jā kė pūran karam.
    Says Nanak, one who is blessed with perfect good karma,
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਪੂਰਨ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥੨॥੩੪॥
    सतिगुर भेटे पूरन पारब्रहम ॥२॥३४॥
    Saṯgur bẖėtė pūran pārbarahm. ||2||34||
    meets the True Guru, and obtains the Perfect Supreme Lord God. ||2||34||
     
    #11 Astroboy, Apr 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  13. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Anonymous_Kaur Jee!

    Quote "sabh sikhon kau hukam hai guru manyeo GRATNH !!!y do we need another guru...wen all da answers lies in da gurugranth sahib jiii !!"
    I do not know which Guru has said so. Is he your Guru who has said so? I have not found this Vaak in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is suggesting all to receive Sabad Guru. Should we follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee's suggestion or we should read it daily? Is it enough?


    Balbir Singh
     
  14. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Sri Guru Granth sahib ji is the eternal Guru of sikhs or do you have some doubt about this Balbir ji. Please let us know as to the reason of posting this question. It may harm some new comers.
     
  15. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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  16. Sikh80

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    I have not come across this type of vaak in Granth sahib wherein it is suggested that you have stated.
     
  17. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the present Guru of Sikhs. Should Sikhs follow their present Guru or fake Baabaas and preachers who are teaching Sikhs from other writers?
    Please clear your stand first.

    Also, watch this video and find out why this Baabaa Jee is injecting listeners with so many things else than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

    Katha_06-09-2007_-_Tarik_Mantar_Hai_Waheguru.mpg

    In the last minute of this Video he tries to convince the audience to remember something else than Naaraayan to get Muktee. Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee is suggesting doing Simran of Naaraayan though.

    AMiq kwil nwrwiexu ismrY AYsI icMqw mih jy mrY ]
    ANiq kwil nwrwexu ismrY EysI icNqw mih jy mrY ]
    anti kaali naaraa-inu simrai aisee chintaa mahi jay marai.
    End time remembers Naaraayan, dies in such thoughts,

    bdiq iqlocnu qy nr mukqw pIqMbru vw ky irdY bsY ]5]2]
    bdiq iqlocnu qy nr mukqw pIqMb{ vw ky irdY bsY ]5]2]
    badati tilochanu tay nar muktaa peetambaru vaa kay ridai basai. ||5||2|| SGGS Ang 526-10
    Speaks Tilochan, that Nar is liberated. Peetaamber resides in his heart.

    My curiosity is to know why these preachers are leading Sikhs away from their Sabad Guru, suggested by the true Gurus innumerable times.

    **************

    Quote from Balbir Singh "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is suggesting all to receive Sabad Guru."
    Reaction from Sikh 80 Jee "I have not come across this type of vaak in Granth sahib wherein it is suggested that you have stated."

    Please listen. Guru Naanak Jee is singing.

    eyk sbd iek iBiKAw mwgY ]
    Ek sbd ek iBiKAw mwgY ]
    ayk sabad ik bhikhi-aa maagai.
    One Sabad, ask for one begging.

    igAwnu iDAwnu jugiq scu jwgY ]4]
    igAwnu iDAwnu jugiq scu jwgY ]4]
    gi-aan Dhi-aan jugat sach jaagai. SGGS 223-12


    Balbir Singh
     
  18. Sikh80

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    You may like to reply to this as well so that things become clear.
     
  19. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

    Quote "Sri Guru Granth sahib ji is the eternal Guru of sikhs or do you have some doubt about this Balbir ji."
    Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee is the present Guru of Sikhs guiding them to receive true Sabad Guru or Naam.
    Their message has convinced me with this truth.
    Hear any lecture of a Baabaa or a Sikh preacher. Does he invite one to receive the wisdom of truth, Naam Sabad? Do the seekers get true Naam Sabad, as suggested by the reverend Gurus, through any one of them? How long they teach all wait for God's Grace? Did the true Guru ever ask seekers to wait?

    Quote "Please let us know as to the reason of posting this question."
    This may incite the thirst to seek the Sabad Guru. This is also to aware the readers of fake Baabaas and preachers who have nothing to offer when it comes to the wisdom of true Sabad Guru.

    Quote "It may harm some new comers."
    It may harm the business of many fake Baabaas.
    New comers want to know Truth.


    Balbir Singh
     
  20. Sikh80

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    THis is the first post of the thread.It does not give any reference to any baba or fake baba.
    In any case sikhs do not accept the Human Gurus. Granth sahib is the guru. Yes, you may refer to that fake babas are not wanted as preachers. In that case there cannot be any disagreement.
    Thanks!:u):
     
  21. mkm

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Anonymous_Kaur Jee!

    Quote "sabh sikhon kau hukam hai guru manyeo GRATNH !!!y do we need another guru...wen all da answers lies in da gurugranth sahib jiii !!"
    I do not know which Guru has said so. Is he your Guru who has said so? I have not found this Vaak in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

    Are you suggesting that since"Guru manyo Granth" is not in Shri Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs should not believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Shabad Guru?

    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is suggesting all to receive Sabad Guru. Should we follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee's suggestion or we should read it daily? Is it enough?

    Here you are saying now that Shri Guru Granth Sahib is suggesting to receive Shabad Guru, it is contradiction. There is a sect Naamdhari, they dont believe in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji as a Guru since they have made a living Guru but Sikhs have a Shabad Guru known as Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, A Sikh should not make such a disgraceful statement towards Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji.
     

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