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Do Aliens Challenge Your Faith?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Ishna, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Gurfatehji

    What does your religion say about the existence of extra-terrestrial aliens?

    Does the idea of life on other planets conflict with your understanding about Ik Onkar and the creation?

    How do you feel when you consider that life equally as intelligent as humans might exist on other planets in other forms - bright purple hairless four-legged humanoid-type critters who can't sing, for example?

    Does it make you question your own practices and your own beliefs?
     
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    #1 Ishna, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
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  3. Archived_member15

    Archived_member15
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    My dear sister Ishna ji kaurhug

    I am completely fine with the idea of finding intelligent people on other planets.

    In the 1400s, Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa - in my religious tradition - proposed the idea of alien life on other other planets, arguing living beings on other planets would reflect the "elemental composition of those planets".


    Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa wrote:


    "...Therefore, just as the earth is not the center of the world, so the sphere of fixed stars is not its circumference – although when we compare the earth with the sky, the former seems to be nearer to the center, and the latter nearer to the circumference. Therefore, the earth is not the center either of the eighth sphere or of any other sphere...Life, as it exists on Earth, in the form of men, animals and plants, is to be found, let us suppose, in a higher form in the solar and stellar regions. Rather than think that so many stars and parts of the heavens are uninhabited and that this earth of ours alone is peopled — and that with beings, perhaps, of an inferior type — we will suppose that in every region there are inhabitants, differing in nature by rank and all owing their origin to God, who is the centre and circumference of all stellar regions. Now, even if inhabitants of another kind should exist in the other stars, it seems inconceivable that, in the line of nature, anything more noble and perfect could be found than the intellectual nature that exists here on this earth and its region. The fact is that man has no longing for any other nature but desires only to be perfect in his own.

    Were we to suppose that, for the realization of the plan of the universe, the whole region of the other inhabited stars stands in some relation of comparison, unknown to us, through the intermediary of the universal region a certain relationship springs up from both sides between the inhabitants of this earth or region and the inhabitants of other stars — in the same way as through the intermediary of the hand there exists a relation of comparison between the particular joints of the fingers and the foot, so that all be suitably adapted to the whole animal; not even then with this supposition could we find a relation of comparison between those inhabitants of the other stars, of whatever nature they be, and the natives of this world.

    For since that whole region is unknown to us, its inhabitants remain wholly unknown. To go no further than this earth: animals of a given species unite to form a common home of the species and share the common characteristics of their habitat, knowing nothing of or caring nothing for strangers. Their idea of strangers, even if it reaches some kind of vocal expression, is wholly exterior and conjectural and, such as it is, conceivable only after lengthy experience. Of the inhabitants then of worlds other than our own we can know still less, having no standards by which to appraise them. It may be conjectured that in the area of the sun there exist solar beings, bright and enlightened intellectual denizens, and by nature more spiritual than such as may inhabit the moon — who are possibly lunar — whilst those on earth are more gross and material. It may be supposed that those solar intelligences are highly actualized and little in potency, while the earth denizens are much in potency and little in act, and the moon-dwellers betwixt and between.

    We make these conjectures from a consideration of the fiery nature of the sun, the water and air elements in the moon and the weighty bulk of the earth. And we may make parallel surmise of other stellar areas that none of them lack inhabitants, as being each, like the world we live in, a particular area of one universe which contains as many such areas as there are uncountable stars. In these local areas (we may guess), so countless that only He who has created all things in number can enumerate them, the whole cosmos suffers a triple contraction in its downward fourfold progress..."

    - Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (1401 –1464)



    some people believe that Jesus referred to the plausability of alien life in the Gospel of John:


    John 10:16 -

    "...I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd..."


    A lot of people think this refers to aliens, however in the context it is most likely speaking of the conversion of the Gentiles.

    Other passages from the Bible used to support aliens are:


    "And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." ... And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen" (Mark 16:15, 20).

    "If indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister" (Colossians 1:23).

    "But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world"" (Romans 10:18).

    The rationale I have is this:

    How can the Gospel be preached to "every creature under heaven", if animals do not have the sufficient degree of understanding to be able to receive the gospel and process it mentally?

    The only conclusion one can reach then is that Jesus anticipated a time when other "creatures" also made in the Image of God, that is with sufficient mental capacity to be able to receive the Gospel and understand it.

    Historically, these passages have been understood as referring to animals, which I think is also valid. It has resulted in the beautiful Franciscan values of love for animals and addressing them as "brothers and sisters". St Francis in this mode preached the Gospel to fish, birds and other animals such as bears.

    However I consider that Jesus might have had another meaning. What would be the utility after all of preaching the Gospel to animals who cannot receive nor understand it other than out of compassion for them?

    So I posit that there is something deeper to this.

    Note in particular this phrase from St Paul:

    "...Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world..."

    Here a clear distinction is made between the "earth", which refers to this planet and "the ends of the world" which Paul sees as something different and which I believe refers to the universe.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
     
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  4. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    Ishna Ji,

    It's quite simple, everything that exists in this physical realm and any other realm/dimension is all within God...nothing exists ourside of god. so anything that does exists is by no means against any religion.

    Do i think life exists elsewhere? i'm sure it does and i'm sure it comes in many strange forms as well as forms like ourselves.

    Some people say in deep meditation you can chanel into other dimensions and worlds...an experience that just occurs as a bi-product to your souls journey to experiencing sachkhand. For when we journey towards sachkhand we become 'aware' of everything that exists within god.
     
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  5. TigerStyleZ

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    Dear Ishna ji ,

    read this article , kinda agree with most of them.

    Is there life on other planets?

    [​IMG]

    (NASA's Viking 1 spacecraft was circling the planet, snapping photos of possible landing sites for its sister ship Viking 2, when it spotted the shadowy likeness of a human face. An enormous head nearly two miles from end to end seemed to be staring back at the cameras from a region of the Red Planet called Cydonia.)

    It was Giordano Bruno of Italy who first claimed in 1572 that there were millions of other planets that have life on them. In our own times scientist Chris Chyba has stated that there is a great possibility of life on Europa.
    The belief about life in space rests on the argument that if conditions are right for life to exist on our earth, there may be other such planets in the universe with similar conditions.
    Many people in various countries have reported unidentified flying objects (UFOs) with alarmingly unpredictable regularity. Some people even claim face-to-face rapport with aliens. Crop circles have mysteriously appeared overnight at many places in the world especially in Britain and Canada. Scientists dismiss such claims as mistaken observations or dreams.
    An alien craft is reported to have crashed at Roswell in New Mexico (4 July, 1947) and it is reported that post-mortem was performed on its occupants. The state Government is silent about it. Fossilized microbial worm-like life was detected in 1989 in a 4.5 billion-year-old rock from Mars known as ALH 84009
    The Sikh View

    The Sikh Gurus have not directly mentioned anything about the certainty of life on other planets but there are references, which can only be construed as having relevance to life on other planets. For example, we hear that there are only 8,400,000 forms of life on earth and also Sikhism tells us that the limit of God’s creation is beyond human comprehension. The Guru says, “O Lord, You have embellished the creation with beauty creating the beings of various kinds, you infused your power into them. No one knows your limits.” (AGGS 1094)
    The Guru ji also states
    [​IMG]

    “God has established his stocks and stores in many worlds. He has replenished them once and for all so that the supplies never run out.”
    (AGGS. 7 )

    “I see none as great a giver as you. O Great Giver; You give in charity to the beings of all the continents, worlds, solar systems, nether regions and universes.” (AGGS. 549 )

    Regarding these other worlds he says, “Having created the creation, He watches over it. By His glance of Grace, He bestows happiness. There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end. There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation. As He commands, so they exist. He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices. O Nanak, to describe this is as hard as steel.” (AGGS. 8 )
    Obviously Sikh Gurus believed that there was life on other planets, otherwise the above lines of the Guru would have no meaning and he would not have said, “Many solar systems, many galaxies. Many forms, colours and celestial realms. Many gardens, many fruits and roots. He Himself is mind, and He Himself is matter. Many ages, days and nights. Many apocalypses, many creations. Many beings are in His home. The Lord is perfectly pervading all places.” (AGGS. 1236 )
    There are copious references to life on other planets in the hagiographic literature of Sikhism (Janam Sakhis).
    Sir James Jeans writes, “There are millions of stars in the sky each similar to our sun, and each doubtlessly surrounded, like our sun, by a family of planets on which life may be kept in being by the light and heat received from its sun (Sir James Jeans Our mysterious Universe P. 8 )
    Scientists are waiting for the time when they receive a definite signal from the outer space to prove that we are not the only inheritors of this Universe.


    http://sikhyouth.com/is-there-life-on-other-planets/

    I don´t think this will affect our faith in anyway. God is all and nothing, it is upon us human, to see him through all :)
    You know what? I see Energy/Atoms as an Alien, as well :D I don´t believe in this common stories of aliens who want to invade us etc.. All common view, people just think they look differently they must be bad persons - and I am somehow a rebell , lol! This is happening right now you know? Lol, people see a man with Turban and Beard , and will scream out loud - THERE IS AN ALIEN! Hope you understand my message :)
     
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    #4 TigerStyleZ, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Ishna Ji,

    Wherever there is water, life exists there.

    SGGS Page 19 Line 18 the following tuk is viewable:

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ
    साचे ते पवना भइआ पवनै ते जलु होइ ॥
    Sācẖe ṯe pavnā bẖa▫i▫ā pavnai ṯe jal ho▫e.
    From the True Lord came the air, and from the air came water.
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ
    जल ते त्रिभवणु साजिआ घटि घटि जोति समोइ ॥
    Jal ṯe ṯaribẖavaṇ sāji▫ā gẖat gẖat joṯ samo▫e.
    From water, He created the three worlds; in each and every heart He has infused His Light.
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
     
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    #5 Astroboy, Jun 19, 2012
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  7. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    I have no problem with other worlds and life forms existing simultaneously.
    Guru Nanak had no problem as such and mentions in japji sahib to begin with about numerous planets and galaxies where countless births, deaths and karma take place.

    ਧਰਤੀ ਹੋਰੁ ਪਰੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਹੋਰੁ ॥
    Ḏẖarṯī hor parai hor hor.
    So many worlds beyond this world-so very many!


    ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਆਗਾਸਾ ਆਗਾਸ ॥
    Pāṯālā pāṯāl lakẖ āgāsā āgās.
    There are nether worlds beneath nether worlds, and hundreds of thousands of heavenly worlds above


    ਸਹਸ ਅਠਾਰਹ ਕਹਨਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਅਸੁਲੂ ਇਕੁ ਧਾਤੁ ॥
    Sahas aṯẖārah kahan kaṯebā asulū ik ḏẖāṯ.
    The scriptures say that there are 18,000 worlds, but in reality, there is only One Universe.


    ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕਰਮ ਭੂਮੀ ਮੇਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਧੂ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥
    Keṯī▫ā karam bẖūmī mer keṯe keṯe ḏẖū upḏes.
    So many worlds and lands for working out karma. So very many lessons to be learned


    ਕੇਤੇ ਇੰਦ ਚੰਦ ਸੂਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਮੰਡਲ ਦੇਸ ॥
    Keṯe inḏ cẖanḏ sūr keṯe keṯe mandal ḏes.
    So many Indras, so many moons and suns, so many worlds and lands


    We are here and responsible for this given world. We should keep our focus to the ones around us that affect us in daily life and our karma.
    Let the other worlds be, let them look after their own surroundings and environments and everything that affects their karma.

    We know that it is our lives in this world that affect us and our karma, be it given or attained, whereas the other worlds have their own and do not influence our karma.

    It's all part of the same creation and I don't think it matters what the other worlds and it's inhabitants look like or come across as, be they green with 6 legs and arms.

    We, on this planet spend our whole lifetimes trying to discover and learn about ourselves. I don't think that creator expect us to be discovering and learning about people from other worlds while we have so much to learn and discover here!!!

    I worry and think about other wolrds and aliens as much as I think that there is a heaven and hell. It doesn't really matter if there is or not, but what matters is where I am now and what I'm doing about it, let heaven be (if there is such) when it's time for it to be.

    At the moment, where I am is to be for now.

    I'm going to 'phone home' nowcheerleader

    Waheguru
    Lucky Singh





     
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  8. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Vouthon ji, I had no idea people in the west were thinking like that so long ago! That's really cool!

    Lucky ji, that's an excellent reminder of what really matters. When it boils down to it, we're here and this is what we've got to work with. But I can't help exploring these ideas.

    With regard to Sikhi, I love the way it's so open to these ideas.

    When it comes to religion and spiritual progression, do you find it weakens your discipline when you consider that technically, the religions formed on Earth are directly related to our Earthly environment and history, and that religions on other planets might bear little resemblance to our own, and yet they're all still under "God"? Do you ask yourself why hair or nitnem bani are so special since they are (most probably) Earth-specific?

    For instance, it is highly likely (but not impossible) that the 6 legged green hairless Goblugs from Planet Zorg don't have japji Sahib to recite... They probably don't have any other kind of Khalsa discipline, not might they pray for salvation in Jesus's name. Nor are they likely to recognise Krishna, Shiva or Indra.

    Does open-mindedness to the possibility of intelligent life on other planets (with the associated planet-specific cultures, religions, etc) force a religion to be likewise as open-minded with other religions and cultures on Earth?

    If we say any Earthly conception of the divine is lacking when compared to the Sikh definition, are we also saying that the gods of every other planet in the UNIVERSE are also lacking, because they are not Sikh, even though chances are they haven't received the Bani of our Guru Sahiban?

    At what point do we recognise that another religion has reached the same divine conclusion as Sikhi, but from a different cultural perspective?
     
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    #7 Ishna, Jun 20, 2012
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  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    XXXXXX It was Giordano Bruno of Italy who first claimed in 1572 XXXXXX


    GURU NANAK ji left this earth in 1539.....and He WROTE His GURBANI much much EARLIER than 1539......and His GURBANI already declares Millions upon millions of stars galaxies and inhabited planets etc etc etc....
     
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  10. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Single celled organisms divide and multiply, such that they may have siblings, but never more than one parent haha. So if they are different from us, does that make them less living? The Universal language is not Gurmukhi, but the Akhath Kahani (Untold Story), Birhaa, Laalan Siyo Preet etc.
     
  11. Luckysingh

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    Oh dear, and I've been preparing by trying to learn vulcan language!!!!!peacesignpeacesign
     

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